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Hairball

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timmyj3
My fist thought was how disappointing "Fool to Cry" as the single was to me.

Yes it's an inferior tune and an odd choice for a single, and in that sense it's similar to Emotional Rescue being released as the first a single from that album. Terrible choice imo.
Also reminiscent of them releasing Streets of Love as the first single from ABB 18 years ago. All baffling choices that leave a bad impression of what to expect from the albums,
At least B&B and ER have several mighty fine redeeming qualities as albums vs. the overall below average mess of ABB where it's tough to find anything remotely listenable (give or take a track or two).
With the the release of Fool to Cry in '76, it's no wonder the Stones were already being considered out of touch dinosaurs, and over the hill. Thankfully they bounced back with the Some Girls album in '78.

I don't really think there is a single there. But a lot of people seem to like this, and everyone says it's the single... In Europe it's going to be a single, because they don't have FM radio like they do here, they don't play albums.

- Mick Jagger, April 1976

[timeisonourside.com]

The Stones aren't the only band to ever release something, single or LP track, and view it as such, not believe in it, yet... released it as one or both - and even played it live.

In this case, for decades.


They ignore tracks from whatever albums, and have for a long time - do they just think they didn't really release those?

So weird.

I came across UOTN from whatever it's called, live album, the Beacon show. Holy crap it's terrible. It makes the STEEL WHEELS performances sound like EXILE!

OK so that tour sucked for them. But there are so many better songs. Woody could hardly do his parts. Keith just single note bombed away. Mick "sang" with only one note.

They make such weird choices. Don't play 100 Years Ago, instead do an 18 minute version of Midnight Rambler.

Don't play She's So Cold with even a hint of the grace and touch of the studio version - plow through! But do play Monkey Man with grace and touch of the studio version.

BLACK AND BLUE is probably tied for the third most ignored album they've paid attention to for live shows, with U, ER and IORR, but behind TSMR and, ha ha, DIRTY WORK.

All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-25 23:30 by NashvilleBlues.

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

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Taylor1

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umakmehrd

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terraplane
Best Ronnie Wood era album. I like it as much as EOMS

Say what... you are a Crazy Mama

How could this be Ron Woods best album? He plays on only three tracks.On one, Cherry Oh Baby he contributes almost nothing.Obviously he contributed a lot more to Some Girls and later albums.

Considering how little he actually contributed, and then compare the quality of his playing (or lack thereof) to heavyweight masters Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel, surprised he made the final cut back then.
But of course he was English...he got along well with Keith...he fit the image, etc., etc., etc. But his playing and minimal contributions? Meager. And while his playing on Crazy Mama is good, and his playing on Hey Negrita adequate, it's nothing exceptional. Then there's Cherry Oh Baby which is perhaps their worst reggae cover ever imo, but probably shouldn't pin the blame solely on Ronnie for that. I love Ronnie as a Rolling Stone as most of us do here as he's been a part of the band for nearly 50 years (!), but he really doesn't have a particularly significant "signature style" that sets him apart from others. He was much better prior to joining the Stones, but then he became sort of a jack of all trades (but master of none). His out of control partying and wrecklessness through the first few decades in the band certainly didn't help his cause either when he became Ronnie the goofy clown, but since he's cleaned up his act he's earned much respect. Now he's out and about jumping on any stage with any guest he can, but it's a real shame he isn't on stage with the Rolling Stones right now.
With all of his current focused energy and activity, would be nice if he would channel all of that in to releasing another solo album some day as it seems he still might have it in him. Go Ronnie go, and keep on rolling.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

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Hairball

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Taylor1

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umakmehrd

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terraplane
Best Ronnie Wood era album. I like it as much as EOMS

Say what... you are a Crazy Mama

How could this be Ron Woods best album? He plays on only three tracks.On one, Cherry Oh Baby he contributes almost nothing.Obviously he contributed a lot more to Some Girls and later albums.

Considering how little he actually contributed, and then compare the quality of his playing (or lack thereof) to heavyweight masters Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel, surprised he made the final cut back then.
But of course he was English...he got along well with Keith...he fit the image, etc., etc., etc. But his playing and minimal contributions? Meager. And while his playing on Crazy Mama is good, and his playing on Hey Negrita adequate, it's nothing exceptional. Then there's Cherry Oh Baby which is perhaps their worst reggae cover ever imo, but probably shouldn't pin the blame solely on Ronnie for that. I love Ronnie as a Rolling Stone as most of us do here as he's been a part of the band for nearly 50 years (!), but he really doesn't have a particularly significant "signature style" that sets him apart from others. He was much better prior to joining the Stones, but then he became sort of a jack of all trades (but master of none)...

Ah.

Well, here's the full version:

A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.

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Cristiano Radtke

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

Yeah, I thought about adding it, but those few seconds of Country Honk wasn't really enough, was it

What about the part where KR's role is discussed of the introduction of Cherry oh baby and I can feel the fire (page 18, 3rd column)? It should have been on a rehearsal tape from Long View Farm. I don't know the bootleg Extended play, that contains a version of Cherry and also of I can feel the fire. See Discogs:

[www.discogs.com]

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alexander paul
What about the part where KR's role is discussed of the introduction of Cherry oh baby and I can feel the fire (page 18, 3rd column)? It should have been on a rehearsal tape from Long View Farm. I don't know the bootleg Extended play, that contains a version of Cherry and also of I can feel the fire. See Discogs:

[www.discogs.com]

Great read. Thanks

Rod

Thanks, a good read but a lot of inaccurate stuff in that article!

- Long View Farm was in 1981, the author probably got confused by 'notes on the Extended Play mish mash
- Heatwave is in fact "Built That Way" (to be fair it hadn't been leaked at the time)
- Rory Gallagher did indeed go to Rotterdam as told by him (or his brother?) ...and how dysfunctional he found the Stones
- no mention of Robert A. Johnson, the "real" surprise of the Deluxe ;-)

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Thanks for this article ! It was written in 1997, so we have some alternate facts.

As far as I know Cherry Oh Baby and I Can Feel The Fire are not circulating, but there have been lots of simple fake tracks in the early 80's. Fact is that KR taped a guitar solo track in early 81. Not on the Long View Farm in May, but in the Eldorado Studios in March. So the author might have listened to this one or to both songs. I doubt that they are on the LP with the discogs link above.

A guitar solo track ? He did record tracks at both Longview and Eldorado Studios but why not "Cherry Oh Baby" as far as is known, and why would he ?

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

What I meant is, that KR recorded something in the Eldorado Studios 81 that might be Cherry Oh Baby or I Can Feel The Fire, and that it was just a guitar track. So this might be what the author listened to. I never wrote that KR did not record one of those tracks. How should I know?

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Hairball

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Taylor1

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umakmehrd

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terraplane
Best Ronnie Wood era album. I like it as much as EOMS

Say what... you are a Crazy Mama

How could this be Ron Woods best album? He plays on only three tracks.On one, Cherry Oh Baby he contributes almost nothing.Obviously he contributed a lot more to Some Girls and later albums.

Considering how little he actually contributed, and then compare the quality of his playing (or lack thereof) to heavyweight masters Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel, surprised he made the final cut back then.
But of course he was English...he got along well with Keith...he fit the image, etc., etc., etc. But his playing and minimal contributions? Meager. And while his playing on Crazy Mama is good, and his playing on Hey Negrita adequate, it's nothing exceptional. Then there's Cherry Oh Baby which is perhaps their worst reggae cover ever imo, but probably shouldn't pin the blame solely on Ronnie for that. I love Ronnie as a Rolling Stone as most of us do here as he's been a part of the band for nearly 50 years (!), but he really doesn't have a particularly significant "signature style" that sets him apart from others. He was much better prior to joining the Stones, but then he became sort of a jack of all trades (but master of none). His out of control partying and wrecklessness through the first few decades in the band certainly didn't help his cause either when he became Ronnie the goofy clown, but since he's cleaned up his act he's earned much respect. Now he's out and about jumping on any stage with any guest he can, but it's a real shame he isn't on stage with the Rolling Stones right now.
With all of his current focused energy and activity, would be nice if he would channel all of that in to releasing another solo album some day as it seems he still might have it in him. Go Ronnie go, and keep on rolling.

Hearing Rory Gallagher jammed on the early versions of Crazy Mama pissed me off lol. What a missed opportunity!

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gotdablouse
Thanks, a good read but a lot of inaccurate stuff in that article!

- Long View Farm was in 1981, the author probably got confused by 'notes on the Extended Play mish mash
- Heatwave is in fact "Built That Way" (to be fair it hadn't been leaked at the time)
- Rory Gallagher did indeed go to Rotterdam as told by him (or his brother?) ...and how dysfunctional he found the Stones
- no mention of Robert A. Johnson, the "real" surprise of the Deluxe ;-)

I just learned about the Gallagher jams (including early Crazy Mama), but Wyman actually confirmed it a long time ago.

I read about Robert A. Johnson trying out years ago. I didn't know who he was, and I'm not sure I actually remember that he recorded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-09-25 16:33 by TravelinMan.

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Cristiano Radtke

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

LET IT BLEED would be counted as all tracks played live if Honky Tonk Women was on it instead of Country Honk so only OUT OF OUR HEADS (US), SF and SG have had all LP tracks performed live.

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GasLightStreet

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Cristiano Radtke

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

LET IT BLEED would be counted as all tracks played live if Honky Tonk Women was on it instead of Country Honk so only OUT OF OUR HEADS (US), SF and SG have had all LP tracks performed live.

well country honk was sort of played for a few seconds at knebworth

and there's this which i guess is technically live

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GasLightStreet

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Cristiano Radtke

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

LET IT BLEED would be counted as all tracks played live if Honky Tonk Women was on it instead of Country Honk so only OUT OF OUR HEADS (US), SF and SG have had all LP tracks performed live.

Their greatest album, Exile, has had 12 songs played live ,the most from any album.

Considering that EOMS has 18 songs on it and they've played 12 of them live it's convenient to say they've played the most songs from EOMS live... but percentage wise it's nowhere near OOOH, SF and SG for having all songs performed live.

TATTOO YOU has had 8 of 11 performed live so still a higher percentage than EOMS tracks played live.

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TravelinMan

I read about Robert A. Johnson trying out years ago. I didn't know who he was, and I'm not sure I actually remember that he recorded.

Apparently the Rolling Stones had a carefully calibrated limit on how much clowning they could tolerate onstage.

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GasLightStreet

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Cristiano Radtke

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

LET IT BLEED would be counted as all tracks played live if Honky Tonk Women was on it instead of Country Honk so only OUT OF OUR HEADS (US), SF and SG have had all LP tracks performed live.

Is there any evidence that Hitch Hike, The Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man or One More Try were played live?

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drewmaster
A lot of IORRians (including myself) feel that Black and Blue is one of the best-SOUNDING Stones albums (along with ER and/or TY).

But can someone explain to me WHY records produced in the mid-to-late 1970's sound better than records produced 20-25 years later, such as BTB and ABB?

Doesn't this defy logic? With all the technological advances in those 20-25 years, shouldn't the SOUND of the Stones' recordings (irrespective of the quality of the songs themselves) continuously improve??

What am I missing here, please?

Drew

For one thing, a lot of bands/artists have the entire drum kit miced up and, although there are room mics, the drums are direct; they don't breathe.

Glyn Johns used 3 or 4 mics for the drums with the Stones and with exception to the snare mic, all had room to breathe. Beatles were the same. U2 does similar. I can't say about anyone else but I'm going to guess AC/DC is more room oriented than track oriented.

Although the mix can create a room sound if the drums are quasi-mono but it requires messing with reverb and EQ (and preferably no support samples).

Yet, above all, compression really started getting laid on and now it's to the point where some music sounds like it's got 8 inches of flex spray to sheen everything into a blob. The Aerosmith Yungblood single is a perfect example.

Although some people love to blame digital recording it's how it's recorded, not so much what with, and then what happens to it in post-production, mainly, mastering.

Alain Jourgensen (Ministry) is, from what I can recall although no one has mentioned it that I'm aware of, the forefather of brickwalling. When Ministry released THE MIND IS A TERRIBLE... or PSALM 69 he mentioned in an interview in Chicago about mastering "hot", which is now known as brickwalling. He did it on purpose so the entire thing almost sounded fried.

Now that's the norm!!! So that's a big thing, the amount of compression used is ridiculous.

Fan edit, as far as I know...

We don't have a new album ready because we had to rehearse and get ready for this tour and find a new guitarist. we have done a lot - about twenty tracks in Munich - but they're not finished or mixed. We'll do that after the tour.

- Mick Jagger, May 1975

Ummm, yes, and you were ON the tour so you've got the... yes, they do, it does, it's pretty obvious. I mean 'down to Baton Rouge'... the track was done prior, and then after the tour I finished off the vocals.
- Mick Jagger, 1976, on the lyrics being written
after the 1975 tour


We had five more recorded that we just couldn't fit on there. Let me see. Worried about You and I Love Ladies were a couple of them. We always have four or five left over. And you tend to just leave them, you know. The album now to me is rather like an old hearthrug, it's so familiar.

- Mick Jagger, May 1976

[timeisonourside.com]
[timeisonourside.com]

As usual, Memory Motel is probably 12 minutes long like a lot of their tunes so Mick had ample space to add vocals he hadn't written or finished yet and did so after the 1975 tour.

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GasLightStreet

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drewmaster
A lot of IORRians (including myself) feel that Black and Blue is one of the best-SOUNDING Stones albums (along with ER and/or TY).

But can someone explain to me WHY records produced in the mid-to-late 1970's sound better than records produced 20-25 years later, such as BTB and ABB?

Doesn't this defy logic? With all the technological advances in those 20-25 years, shouldn't the SOUND of the Stones' recordings (irrespective of the quality of the songs themselves) continuously improve??

What am I missing here, please?

Drew

For one thing, a lot of bands/artists have the entire drum kit miced up and, although there are room mics, the drums are direct; they don't breathe.

Glyn Johns used 3 or 4 mics for the drums with the Stones and with exception to the snare mic, all had room to breathe. Beatles were the same. U2 does similar. I can't say about anyone else but I'm going to guess AC/DC is more room oriented than track oriented.

Although the mix can create a room sound if the drums are quasi-mono but it requires messing with reverb and EQ (and preferably no support samples).

Yet, above all, compression really started getting laid on and now it's to the point where some music sounds like it's got 8 inches of flex spray to sheen everything into a blob. The Aerosmith Yungblood single is a perfect example.

Although some people love to blame digital recording it's how it's recorded, not so much what with, and then what happens to it in post-production, mainly, mastering.

Alain Jourgensen (Ministry) is, from what I can recall although no one has mentioned it that I'm aware of, the forefather of brickwalling. When Ministry released THE MIND IS A TERRIBLE... or PSALM 69 he mentioned in an interview in Chicago about mastering "hot", which is now known as brickwalling. He did it on purpose so the entire thing almost sounded fried.

Now that's the norm!!! So that's a big thing, the amount of compression used is ridiculous.

great post

i actually learned something interesting from it

thank you

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GasLightStreet

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drewmaster
A lot of IORRians (including myself) feel that Black and Blue is one of the best-SOUNDING Stones albums (along with ER and/or TY).

But can someone explain to me WHY records produced in the mid-to-late 1970's sound better than records produced 20-25 years later, such as BTB and ABB?

Doesn't this defy logic? With all the technological advances in those 20-25 years, shouldn't the SOUND of the Stones' recordings (irrespective of the quality of the songs themselves) continuously improve??

What am I missing here, please?

Drew

For one thing, a lot of bands/artists have the entire drum kit miced up and, although there are room mics, the drums are direct; they don't breathe.

Glyn Johns used 3 or 4 mics for the drums with the Stones and with exception to the snare mic, all had room to breathe. Beatles were the same. U2 does similar. I can't say about anyone else but I'm going to guess AC/DC is more room oriented than track oriented.

Although the mix can create a room sound if the drums are quasi-mono but it requires messing with reverb and EQ (and preferably no support samples).

Yet, above all, compression really started getting laid on and now it's to the point where some music sounds like it's got 8 inches of flex spray to sheen everything into a blob. The Aerosmith Yungblood single is a perfect example.

Although some people love to blame digital recording it's how it's recorded, not so much what with, and then what happens to it in post-production, mainly, mastering.

Alain Jourgensen (Ministry) is, from what I can recall although no one has mentioned it that I'm aware of, the forefather of brickwalling. When Ministry released THE MIND IS A TERRIBLE... or PSALM 69 he mentioned in an interview in Chicago about mastering "hot", which is now known as brickwalling. He did it on purpose so the entire thing almost sounded fried.

Now that's the norm!!! So that's a big thing, the amount of compression used is ridiculous.

Don’t forget overhyped high end which is exacerbated by over compressed/limited mixes and masters. Literally causes ear fatigue.

While digital is discrete, people don’t tend to use it that way, they manipulate it in ways that just weren’t possible with tape. Tape has a nice natural rolloff that modern listeners might find “lo-fi” or amateur sounding. This is just due to the modern listener expecting over hyped, loud music and every note in the pocket and tuned to death.

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maidenlane

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TravelinMan

I read about Robert A. Johnson trying out years ago. I didn't know who he was, and I'm not sure I actually remember that he recorded.

Apparently the Rolling Stones had a carefully calibrated limit on how much clowning they could tolerate onstage.

plus he looks like a

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Cristiano Radtke

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GasLightStreet

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Cristiano Radtke

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DandelionPowderman

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NashvilleBlues

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rollmops
All the songs from Black and Blue have been played live which means that the record is at least a valuable collection of songs that repeatedly has tickled Mick the right way.Great achievement for an album.
Rockandroll,
Mops

I wonder how many Stones albums this is the case for (albums with all songs played live)?

At least SF and SG.

Stretching it a little bit, Let it Bleed as well.

LET IT BLEED would be counted as all tracks played live if Honky Tonk Women was on it instead of Country Honk so only OUT OF OUR HEADS (US), SF and SG have had all LP tracks performed live.

Is there any evidence that Hitch Hike, The Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man or One More Try were played live?

I've looked and haven't seen anything other than an unverified tv show in London but according to [timeisonourside.com] each song is listed as having been performed live in 1965.