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TravelinMan
According to everything I’ve read, Taylor was at the second batch of Musicland sessions, plus he used the Hi Fly guitar synth which is all over the record.

We don't know how many of the sessions he really attended:

We booked a couple of weeks, went in and cut about half the album with Billy Preston on keyboards. Then we split and came back again after Christmas for another two weeks, this time with Nicky Hopkins on piano, and by the end of those two weeks we'd cut enough tracks for the album plus half again. Then we had to choose which ones we were going to work on vocal-wise. So we made a short list of about 12 or 13 tracks and then in April, I came over to England with Mick and we finished off writing those that hadn't been completed lyric-wise, because a lot of them had been written in a very loose framework to start with - maybe just a chorus, a hookline or something.

- Keith Richards, 1974

And Mick (Taylor) was in on only half of the last sessions in Munich, for It's Only Rock 'n Roll, because he was in the hospital. We had two sessions and he didn't come to the first one. So it's not really any great difficulty (continuing without him).

- Mick Jagger, December 1974

So, Taylor was there for half of the last sessions of February 1974, say a week the most.

This all contradicts Taylor's own statements, that he worked really hard on that album, and that he wrote a lot of tracks with Jagger -that must have happened then before he came ill in early November 1973.

Concerning the hi-flyte -I don't think Taylor used it at all, as far as I remember now. Most obvious hi-flyte effects are played Keith, the phasing and the fuzz.

Mathijs

I read Jagger’s quote as Taylor was at half of the sessions in Munich. They had two periods of recording in Munich, and he was at the second one.

“Last sessions” refers to the entirety of sessions and he was at half. His next sentence clarifies it.

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TravelinMan
I read Jagger’s quote as Taylor was at half of the sessions in Munich. They had two periods of recording in Munich, and he was at the second one.

“Last sessions” refers to the entirety of sessions and he was at half. His next sentence clarifies it.

They had two main sessions: two weeks in November 1973, two weeks in February 1974.

Thing is: Taylor was not there during much of the sessions, as is evidenced by the fact that just about all his work is overdubbed in England. This is also stated by Andy Johns: Taylor was hardly there, due to huge difficulties.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
I read Jagger’s quote as Taylor was at half of the sessions in Munich. They had two periods of recording in Munich, and he was at the second one.

“Last sessions” refers to the entirety of sessions and he was at half. His next sentence clarifies it.

They had two main sessions: two weeks in November 1973, two weeks in February 1974.

Thing is: Taylor was not there during much of the sessions, as is evidenced by the fact that just about all his work is overdubbed in England. This is also stated by Andy Johns: Taylor was hardly there, due to huge difficulties.

Mathijs

It's pretty common knowledge he wasn't there for the first batch of sessions due to his septum (AKA "he was sick"). Or maybe he was at a clinic.

Regardless, I think it's inconsequential to my original opinion that I believe the album would have benefitted if the full band were there and in good shape. I recognized he is on very few backing tracks.

Here's a quote:

“Fingerprint File” I played bass on. That’s another track that was done with just Charlie, Mick, and myself, and Keith overdubbed later. Mick played rhythm guitar, I played bass, and Charlie was playing drums.

So at least we know he was there for that one!


Back to your point about Time Waits For No One. Taylor did say most of his solos were overdubbed, so it wouldn't be surprising if that one was as well.

Regarding Taylor and the Hi-Fli: “I just happened to plug into it when we were recording ‘Time Waits for No One,’" he would explain. He adds that “I used a Fender Stratocaster on that simply because it was there and it sounded good.”

From the Rolling Stones Gear book

Didn’t Jagger say that Silver Train and Fingerprint File began with he and Taylor jamming on the songs?And doesn’t he play not only the overdubbed lead guitar on Time Waits For No One but also synth.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-29 02:17 by Taylor1.

Doesn’t Taylor also play percussion on Dance Little Sister.Nico says he added guitar to Fingerprint File



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-29 02:16 by Taylor1.

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Taylor1
Doesn’t Taylor also play percussion on Dance Little Sister.Nico says he added guitar to Fingerprint File

I don't hear any other guitar than Jagger's main rhythm guitar and Keith's wah guitar on Fingerprint File.

Don't know about percussion on DLS...

Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Regarding Taylor and the Hi-Fli: “I just happened to plug into it when we were recording ‘Time Waits for No One,’" he would explain. He adds that “I used a Fender Stratocaster on that simply because it was there and it sounded good.”

From the Rolling Stones Gear book

Could be possible of course, Taylor's sound on TWFNO has delay and a tiny bit of chorus, which both are in the Hi-Fli. And he was experimenting with wah, chorus and vibe etc. throughout 1973, basically since the first easy to use pedals came to the market.

Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

Btw, I think it's hard to tell who's playing the acoustic guitar on TWFNO.

I agree. But the double stop type lick and the way it counters the main melody makes me believe it is Richards...

Mathijs

Besides the main rhythm/riff and backing vocals, I don't think Richards had much to do with Time Waits For No One, I mean in 1975 he even said:

"You always know your limitations. They recede but they're still there. Which is why 'Time Waits For No One' hasn't received an airing yet 'cause no one's quite sure if that isn't the limit or as far as we can go. It was Mick Taylor who carried most of that on record. I think it was the best thing he did with the band."

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TravelinMan
Besides the main rhythm/riff and backing vocals, I don't think Richards had much to do with Time Waits For No One

Well, Keith co-wrote it, co-produced it, played the main electric rhythm guitar, played the lead guitar at the turn-arounds, played the 12-string acoustic intro riffs, plays acoustic rhythm guitar throughout, sings backup...

Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Besides the main rhythm/riff and backing vocals, I don't think Richards had much to do with Time Waits For No One, I mean in 1975 he even said:

"You always know your limitations. They recede but they're still there. Which is why 'Time Waits For No One' hasn't received an airing yet 'cause no one's quite sure if that isn't the limit or as far as we can go. It was Mick Taylor who carried most of that on record. I think it was the best thing he did with the band."

I read it as he's talking about the solos. And he's right. Those solos are not for Ronnie.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
Besides the main rhythm/riff and backing vocals, I don't think Richards had much to do with Time Waits For No One, I mean in 1975 he even said:

"You always know your limitations. They recede but they're still there. Which is why 'Time Waits For No One' hasn't received an airing yet 'cause no one's quite sure if that isn't the limit or as far as we can go. It was Mick Taylor who carried most of that on record. I think it was the best thing he did with the band."

I read it as he's talking about the solos. And he's right. Those solos are not for Ronnie.

One can almost hear the glorious mess Ronnie would make of this

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Besides the main rhythm/riff and backing vocals, I don't think Richards had much to do with Time Waits For No One

Well, Keith co-wrote it, co-produced it, played the main electric rhythm guitar, played the lead guitar at the turn-arounds, played the 12-string acoustic intro riffs, plays acoustic rhythm guitar throughout, sings backup...

Mathijs

I mean I am going to believe Keith Richards at his word when he said it was his riff and others turned it into something else. I think he is the authority when it comes to his music.

I don’t really hear his influence outside of that, and the acoustic guitar doesn’t sound like him IMO.

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Besides the main rhythm/riff and backing vocals, I don't think Richards had much to do with Time Waits For No One

Well, Keith co-wrote it, co-produced it, played the main electric rhythm guitar, played the lead guitar at the turn-arounds, played the 12-string acoustic intro riffs, plays acoustic rhythm guitar throughout, sings backup...

Mathijs

I mean I am going to believe Keith Richards at his word when he said it was his riff and others turned it into something else. I think he is the authority when it comes to his music.

I don’t really hear his influence outside of that, and the acoustic guitar doesn’t sound like him IMO.

The main acoustic is so generic it could be anyone. But the into licks emphasizing the Am7 and Em7 in the intro are bog standard Keith Richards double stops.

Add the fact that it is has always been Keith Richards who would do all the layers of overdubs while producing the records, and basically treating Taylor as a standard session musician since 1972, there's little chance Taylor got to to an acoustic overdub.

Mathijs

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TravelinMan

I don’t really hear his influence outside of that

That's just really ignorant to say -It's Keith's main melody of the verses driving the track, and Keith's main guitar riff of the chorus drives the vocal and piano melody. Taylor's first solo is just the Am7 over C scale, which already lies within the Keith's chord structure of verse and chorus. Where Taylor really takes it into something else is with the second solo, he adds an entirely new dimension to the track -this is what Keith means with Taylor 'carrying most of the record'.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

I don’t really hear his influence outside of that

That's just really ignorant to say -It's Keith's main melody of the verses driving the track, and Keith's main guitar riff of the chorus drives the vocal and piano melody. Taylor's first solo is just the Am7 over C scale, which already lies within the Keith's chord structure of verse and chorus. Where Taylor really takes it into something else is with the second solo, he adds an entirely new dimension to the track -this is what Keith means with Taylor 'carrying most of the record'.

Mathijs

I said I don't hear his influence outside of his main guitar part, which is obviously a key element of the song. I don't think that's ignorant, I think it is simply stating that's what he contributed to the song just as he said himself. I don't believe he played any other instruments and his own quotes back that up IMO.

I think it's ignorant to assume Mick Taylor couldn't play those parts. I suggest re-listening to Taylor's eponymous solo debut, as there is a wide breadth of guitars (including acoustic) and guitar stylings across that album. His electric rhythm guitars on a few songs sound very much like Stones rhythm guitars over the years that are lazily attributed to Richards. Also, Taylor played double stops all the time; that's standard repertoire of a blues rock guitarist, as I'm sure you know.

Remember, Richards wasn't always present as he had his own set of issues.

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

I don’t really hear his influence outside of that

That's just really ignorant to say -It's Keith's main melody of the verses driving the track, and Keith's main guitar riff of the chorus drives the vocal and piano melody. Taylor's first solo is just the Am7 over C scale, which already lies within the Keith's chord structure of verse and chorus. Where Taylor really takes it into something else is with the second solo, he adds an entirely new dimension to the track -this is what Keith means with Taylor 'carrying most of the record'.

Mathijs

I said I don't hear his influence outside of his main guitar part, which is obviously a key element of the song. I don't think that's ignorant, I think it is simply stating that's what he contributed to the song just as he said himself. I don't believe he played any other instruments and his own quotes back that up IMO.

I think it's ignorant to assume Mick Taylor couldn't play those parts. I suggest re-listening to Taylor's eponymous solo debut, as there is a wide breadth of guitars (including acoustic) and guitar stylings across that album. His electric rhythm guitars on a few songs sound very much like Stones rhythm guitars over the years that are lazily attributed to Richards. Also, Taylor played double stops all the time; that's standard repertoire of a blues rock guitarist, as I'm sure you know.

Remember, Richards wasn't always present as he had his own set of issues.

Just listened to the acoustic, and it sure is Keith, no doubt about it. The way he plucks the double stops is typically Keith, he does it to this day.

You constantly keep stating that Keith's only influence on the song is the main electric guitar, whereas it is the main electric guitar, electric guitar turnaround leads, 6-string acoustic double stops, 12-string acoustic rhythm, and vocals. Oh, and he wrote half of it and co-produced it.

It's not so much that Taylor could or could not play a part, it's much more about would Keith let him play those parts. Keith acted as the boss over his own records, his own music. He was the creater, and he would decide who played what. From Exile on he wiped many of Taylor's rhythm parts and replaced it with his own parts. If he needed a flashy solo or a slide he would turn to Taylor, or even the engineers or Mick would turn to Taylor. Most of Taylor's greatest work was on collaborations with Jagger, not with Richards.

Mathijs

Richards has one electric guitar track on the song. It plays rhythm and the riff.

Keith Richards in his own words has downplayed his contributions to this song. He is the authority figure, not you. I've already shared multiple quotes supporting this. He tracked his parts and came back in to sing harmony after Jagger was done. They did not do vocals together on this album:

"Then we got on and did the vocals and I left Mick for a couple of weeks to do his solo vocals, because he often comes up with his best stuff alone in the studio with just an engineer."


I am done arguing with you about this. It's up to everyone to read what the actual band members said during this time, including Taylor who said he worked closely with Jagger finishing the album and Richards who said he wrote the main riff and it was taken up by others (he also said it was mainly Taylor). Richards traipsed off to go play around with Ron Wood during the time IORR was being finished.

Back to the topic...


What's interesting is Andy Johns said he tracked these songs:

If You Can’t Rock Me

Ain’t Too Proud To Beg

Till The Next Goodbye

If You Really Want To Be My Friend

Short And Curlies (Olympic)

Fingerprint File


...and was not involved in these due to working with Jack Bruce:

It’s Only Rock N Roll (Wood's studio)

Time Waits For No One

Luxury

Dance Little Sister


He also said he was only involved in the first recording sessions in Munich, which were a month long (not two weeks) according to him. He said Mick Taylor showed up later due to his sinuses and was mainly overdubs.

This paints an interesting picture of how the album came together. Keith Harwood took over and helped in the second Munich sessions, and presumably after. The fact Andy Johns wasn't familiar at all with almost half the songs means he didn't do the later overdub sessions back in England either. In fact, George Chkiantz is listed as the overdub engineer in the credits.

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TravelinMan
Richards has one electric guitar track on the song. It plays rhythm and the riff.

Richards has the following tracks:

1. The electric tremelo guitar in the left channel that starts the song together with Taylor
2. The 6-string acoustic guitar in the left channel in the intro, with the double stops
3. The main electric guitar in the left channel, with phasing, playing the main picked chords of the verses
4. The main chords of the chorus, and the riff at the end of the chorus
5. The 12-string acoustic that follows the hi-hat
6. During the main solo by Taylor in the right channel there's a second guitar with a fuzz sound shadowing the ascending pattern: that's Richards.
7. Throughout Taylor's solo Richards keep playing the ascending pattern in the right channel, underneath Taylor's solo. In the left channel Richards plays the phased chords
8. He does back up vocals.
9. He co-wrote and produced the track.

Taylor took the track to another level: absolutely, and that's what Keith's means with his remarks. But downplaying his role to 'just one track' is plain stupid.

Mathijs

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TravelinMan

He also said he was only involved in the first recording sessions in Munich, which were a month long (not two weeks) according to him. He said Mick Taylor showed up later due to his sinuses and was mainly overdubs.

Recording dates:

November 12 to 24 1973, no Sundays, 12 studio days.
February 8 to 12, 1974: no Sundays 4 studio days, only Ian Stewart and Jagger/Richards: preparing and listening to playbacks
February 20 to March 3, no Sundays, 10 studio days.

So a total of 22 recording days, 4 playback days.

Andy Johns also said they rehearsed 'in Amsterdam' and mixes up dates here and there.

Mathijs

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TravelinMan

Keith Richards in his own words has downplayed his contributions to this song. He is the authority figure, not you. It's up to everyone to read what the actual band members said during this time. Richards said he wrote the main riff and it was taken up by others (he also said it was mainly Taylor).

I think you're misinterpreting the «got taken up by others»-part. Most likely, he meant that the song became very different than he had foreseen – mainly because of Taylor's contribution.

That doesn't mean that Keith didn't have a lot to do with the writing, recording and producing of the song. He did.

Btw, I'm somewhat baffled over what you said about Keith's and Taylor's rhythm guitar playing. Do you really mean that their rhythm style isn't very different? Do you belive that Broken Hands sounds remotely like Keith, for instance? Just trying to digest that one ...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-30 14:47 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

Keith Richards in his own words has downplayed his contributions to this song. He is the authority figure, not you. It's up to everyone to read what the actual band members said during this time. Richards said he wrote the main riff and it was taken up by others (he also said it was mainly Taylor).

I think you're misinterpreting the «got taken up by others»-part. Most likely, he meant that the song became very different than he had foreseen – mainly because of Taylor's contribution.

That doesn't mean that Keith didn't have a lot to do with the writing, recording and producing of the song. He did.

Btw, I'm somewhat baffled over what you said about Keith's and Taylor's rhythm guitar playing. Do you really mean that their rhythm style isn't very different? Do you belive that Broken Hands sounds remotely like Keith, for instance? Just trying to digest that one ...

. What about Taylor’s rhythm guitar on Live With Me, Bitch,Star Star, Hip Shake,maybe a second guitar on Rip this Joint as well as the outtakes All Down the Line from the Japanese edition of the Exile Deluxe and Travelin Man.A lot of people think on Live with Me and Bitch that’s Keith playing rhythm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-30 15:46 by Taylor1.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Richards has one electric guitar track on the song. It plays rhythm and the riff.

Richards has the following tracks:

1. The electric tremelo guitar in the left channel that starts the song together with Taylor
2. The 6-string acoustic guitar in the left channel in the intro, with the double stops
3. The main electric guitar in the left channel, with phasing, playing the main picked chords of the verses
4. The main chords of the chorus, and the riff at the end of the chorus
5. The 12-string acoustic that follows the hi-hat
6. During the main solo by Taylor in the right channel there's a second guitar with a fuzz sound shadowing the ascending pattern: that's Richards.
7. Throughout Taylor's solo Richards keep playing the ascending pattern in the right channel, underneath Taylor's solo. In the left channel Richards plays the phased chords
8. He does back up vocals.
9. He co-wrote and produced the track.

Taylor took the track to another level: absolutely, and that's what Keith's means with his remarks. But downplaying his role to 'just one track' is plain stupid.

Mathijs

Do you know what tracks are? They are tracks on a tape machine. Musicland had a 16 track tape machine, so suggesting that Keith Richards had half of the tracks illustrates you are unaware of how tape machines and recording in the 70's works. That's okay, but we need to be on the same page if we are going to have an objective discussion, because I am not into hero worship.

I think you likely mean he overdubbed guitar onto his own guitar track.

Tracks probably more likely looked like this:
1 and 2 - stereo drums
3 - bass drum
4 - Jagger vox
5 - Richards vox
6 - Richards electric (left channel)
7 - Taylor electric (right channel)
8 - bass (probably direct or two tracks with one DI one amp)
9 and 10 - piano
11 - ARP synthesizer
12- acoustic guitar

This frees up to four tracks, but knowing how the engineers worked in this era, they may have dedicated tracks to FX on the guitars etc to fill out the speakers. Engineers avoided bouncing down in the 16 track era, especially looking at Stones track sheets because it wears out the tape.

Saying Richards co-wrote the song is fine, because he did write the main riff just as Taylor wrote the riff to Ventilator Blues and Richards took it into a different direction.

The jabby acoustic could definitely be a late stage overdub by Richards.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

He also said he was only involved in the first recording sessions in Munich, which were a month long (not two weeks) according to him. He said Mick Taylor showed up later due to his sinuses and was mainly overdubs.

Recording dates:

November 12 to 24 1973, no Sundays, 12 studio days.
February 8 to 12, 1974: no Sundays 4 studio days, only Ian Stewart and Jagger/Richards: preparing and listening to playbacks
February 20 to March 3, no Sundays, 10 studio days.

So a total of 22 recording days, 4 playback days.

Andy Johns also said they rehearsed 'in Amsterdam' and mixes up dates here and there.

Mathijs

What's the original source? Most everything I see is speculation.

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Taylor1

What about Taylor’s rhythm guitar on Live With Me, Bitch,Star Star, Hip Shake,maybe a second guitar on Rip this Joint as well as the outtakes All Down the Line from the Japanese edition of the Exile Deluxe and Tavelin Man.A lot of people think on Live with Me and Bitch that’s Keith playing rhythm.

Live With Me: great part, short, concise, aggressive. Propels the song.

Bitch: Fantastic. In fact so fantastic that I still find it hard to believe it isn't Keith, especially with Andy Johns' remark that the song didn't work until Keith kicked it in.

Star Star: Lacking in energy and groove until the horns kick in. Never liked the way he played it live either, he drags behind the beat.

Hip Shake: Nice, but not something I would consider a great rhythm part, also not Keith's part. It's the song, not the guitars.

Rip This Joint: No Taylor.

The outtake of All Down The Line: basic, uninteresting. Clearly they were focusing on the structure of the track, not the guitars.

Traveling Man: great riffing, more a lead part than a rhythm part though.

Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

He also said he was only involved in the first recording sessions in Munich, which were a month long (not two weeks) according to him. He said Mick Taylor showed up later due to his sinuses and was mainly overdubs.

Recording dates:

November 12 to 24 1973, no Sundays, 12 studio days.
February 8 to 12, 1974: no Sundays 4 studio days, only Ian Stewart and Jagger/Richards: preparing and listening to playbacks
February 20 to March 3, no Sundays, 10 studio days.

So a total of 22 recording days, 4 playback days.

Andy Johns also said they rehearsed 'in Amsterdam' and mixes up dates here and there.

Mathijs

What's the original source? Most everything I see is speculation.

Yeah right, speculation....

Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Do you know what tracks are? They are tracks on a tape machine. Musicland had a 16 track tape machine, so suggesting that Keith Richards had half of the tracks illustrates you are unaware of how tape machines and recording in the 70's works. That's okay, but we need to be on the same page if we are going to have an objective discussion, because I am not into hero worship.

Man, you are getting really annoying.

Mathijs