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Stoneage
Is there some kind of law describing this phenomena when a thread starts on one note or subject and then ends on a completely different one? It seems to be the fate of almost every thread...

LOL It's like when you go to YouTube looking for a Rolling Stone video and end up watching a Rhino pooping all over a crocodile. I think the natural law is called entropy and is defined as a gradual decline into disorder.

That seems to be it, Naturalust! Entropy is the word...

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Stoneage
Is there some kind of law describing this phenomena when a thread starts on one note or subject and then ends on a completely different one? It seems to be the fate of almost every thread...

Don't know, it started out as posting policy then turned into a coffee shop and turned into something else.
I have noticed how many times a subject changes, its strange really.
The Keith album thread has had some amazing twists and turns but always comes back.
I try to just go with the flow.

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latebloomer

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kleermaker

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Turner68

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Bliss
Bjornulf has put this sticky thread up for us to discuss issues important to IORR. Above he has said that he will close it if it goes off the rails. Doesn't anyone have anything to contribute?

i think we should bring some of the old time posters back.

I support this: time for a general amnesty for all banned for whatever reason. They should be able to register again. Bjornulf could proclaim such a general amnesty. No need for endless email contacts either.

I would support amnesty, but some have moved on...

Yes, the path to reinstatement is clear - all an excluded member has to do is email bv, apologise profusely, and ask to be reinstated. Alternatively, s/he can open a new account under another user name, although I have heard there are people who have been excluded for life. The question is - why do members who have posted prolifically for up to 10 years, with great passion and knowlege, choose not to return? And more to the point, what about the impact of their departure on the forum? Can or should this be avoided?

This thread is about one thing and one thing only:

IORR POSTING POLICY

If you post something OFF TOPIC it might be deleted at any time. At any time. Especially if there are many other off topic posts. Because the focus is on THE ROLLING STONES here, not on food, drugs, hookers, cars, hockey players, butterflies or other non-Stones matters.

If you start a harmless thread about something I would not care. If it is Off Topic and it is marked OT I would not care. But if you start a thread about the best hooker in Brussels or the best coffee shop for pot smoking in Amsterdam or the best street for a fight in LA or hom many girls you slept with tonight or how you are cheating on your tax bill then I just remove it, because may be I have moral, or may be it might be offending to some, not everyone, but some.

Please do not start any discussions about wheede or pot or drugs or alcohol or hookers here. This thread is about the posting policy only. And for those who still not get it? What is the posting policy?

DO NOT OFFEND

When I walk in Amsterdam and see hookers on display in the red light district I feel offended. When I see grown men pitting sharp sticks into a bull through a bull fight then they hide behind a wall and later kill the bull I get offended. Stuff like that. So plese keep in ming - even if something do not offend you, it sure might offend many others. It is all about common sense, and respect.

Bjornulf

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Bliss
The question is - why do members who have posted prolifically for up to 10 years, with great passion and knowlege, choose not to return? And more to the point, what about the impact of their departure on the forum? Can or should this be avoided?

To answer your question and, maybe, risk my position here: I think the incidents with the ice cream- and comedy thread was a turning point for some old time posters here.
There seems to be a friction between some posters and the moderator about the posting policy here. Hence the new Stones forum, EOMS. There you have my two cents...

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bv
This thread is about one thing and one thing only:

IORR POSTING POLICY

If you post something OFF TOPIC it might be deleted at any time. At any time. Especially if there are many other off topic posts. Because the focus is on THE ROLLING STONES here, not on food, drugs, hookers, cars, hockey players, butterflies or other non-Stones matters.

If you start a harmless thread about something I would not care. If it is Off Topic and it is marked OT I would not care. But if you start a thread about the best hooker in Brussels or the best coffee shop for pot smoking in Amsterdam or the best street for a fight in LA or hom many girls you slept with tonight or how you are cheating on your tax bill then I just remove it, because may be I have moral, or may be it might be offending to some, not everyone, but some.

Please do not start any discussions about wheede or pot or drugs or alcohol or hookers here. This thread is about the posting policy only. And for those who still not get it? What is the posting policy?

DO NOT OFFEND

When I walk in Amsterdam and see hookers on display in the red light district I feel offended. When I see grown men pitting sharp sticks into a bull through a bull fight then they hide behind a wall and later kill the bull I get offended. Stuff like that. So plese keep in ming - even if something do not offend you, it sure might offend many others. It is all about common sense, and respect.

But butterflies are not OT. Who breaks a butterfly on a wheel? And what about the butterflies at Hyde Park in 1969? Butterflies are integral to the Stones story

Some people get highly offended when I delete posts about their masturbation or ice cream eating or whatever. So they go bananas and start campaigns like a war calling me a stupid idiot, nazi, and all sorts of other not so nice words. So I delete that too.

If you submit something you write to a publisher, like a newspaper, magazine or portal, then it will go through editorial viewing. If the story is fitting into the format then it might be published. There is such a feature also in the IORR forum. View and moderate before published. But I don't have time, and there is no staff, and life is too short. So 99.9% of all posts go live and stay live forever, no moderation.

Then there is this 0,.1% post which is there but later taken down. Some take it personally, like I have hurt their feelings as a jounalist or writer. Well such is life, not everything you submit will be published. Try writing a book and get it published, prepare for bad news.

Then finally, after people have called me nazi, stalin, pol pot and any other bad four lettered words, some ever say they will beat me up and finish me on tour, then they ask me to enable their posting, they want to post again.

All I need is a sorry and that people tell me they will not offend. Then anyone may post virtually anything. Only problem is some are not able to say sorry, they feel they should be able to say anytingt they like. Well not on IORR. Sorry.

Bjornulf

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bv
Some people get highly offended when I delete posts about their masturbation or ice cream eating or whatever. So they go bananas and start campaigns like a war calling me a stupid idiot, nazi, and all sorts of other not so nice words. So I delete that too.

If you submit something you write to a publisher, like a newspaper, magazine or portal, then it will go through editorial viewing. If the story is fitting into the format then it might be published. There is such a feature also in the IORR forum. View and moderate before published. But I don't have time, and there is no staff, and life is too short. So 99.9% of all posts go live and stay live forever, no moderation.

Then there is this 0,.1% post which is there but later taken down. Some take it personally, like I have hurt their feelings as a jounalist or writer. Well such is life, not everything you submit will be published. Try writing a book and get it published, prepare for bad news.

Then finally, after people have called me nazi, stalin, pol pot and any other bad four lettered words, some ever say they will beat me up and finish me on tour, then they ask me to enable their posting, they want to post again.

All I need is a sorry and that people tell me they will not offend. Then anyone may post virtually anything. Only problem is some are not able to say sorry, they feel they should be able to say anytingt they like. Well not on IORR. Sorry.

Threaten to beat you up? A bit extreme. I knew there were some bad eggs around here.

Im sure Im on topic here so... some iorrians who were banned - I dont know why, how or if somebody reported them and Im not trying to start a campaign for or against any iorrian or BV - seemingly were banned for other reasons than the above mentioned. I also read about the posting policy in another thread where BV vaguely mentioned some other topics or fields perhaps that he - seemingly - didnt want here on iorr.

None of those were about icecream or masturbation but as I remember it - and Im not going to revoke old threads - normal stuff.

And I remember some very good writers who were banned a year ago and I never understood why. To me it seemed like - seemed like, I could be wrong of course - that some iorrians are banned when things get heated, too critical perhaps and the balance between the "serious writers" and the "fanboys" (not meant as an insult at anybody) tilts in favor of the "serious writers".

I hope I dont get reported for saying this in this thread as it is on topic and just some thoughts about the posting policy.

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Redhotcarpet
And I remember some very good writers who were banned a year ago and I never understood why.

It is very simple. If somebody got bannet all it takes is an e-mail to me and I will turn off the banning. So I never got any e-mail. It takes one minute to send an e-mail saying sorry but it takes a lifetime for some obviously.

Bjornulf

Are there any exceptions BV?

Most people enjoy Internet and free posting. They take it for granted. At the same time, more and more news sites close comments fields, they staff up on moderation teams, and they work hard on keeping websites where people can talk open. The few trolls enjoy this playground. Just an example:

Reddit is the 10th most visited website in the United States and 30th in the world. This is not a blip or a trend. This is what the Internet is. The web is an economy of its own that now runs on collective shaming and fear under the fake auspices of free speech, self-expression, and the collective good.

How Long Can The Internet Run on Hate?

This is to those few who ask: "I don't understand why you banned this person..." Read the above article. Mind you Reddit is a PRO site heavily staffed. IORR is free non-profit, paid for by me, staffed by one moderator spare time - me.

A troll will never say sorry. A troll is basing the Internet life on making friends and alliances so that other people may defend their very existence. A troll rely on "fans" who say "I don't understand why you banned this person...".

Just ask the troll one question. Did you say sorry? Ask for the e-mail sent to me saying sorry. It never exist with real trolls. Because they don't exist in real life, they never send any sorry e-mail, they do not respect other people, they rely on hate, trolls rely on anonymity and alliances from fans sho say "I don't understand why you banned this person..."

Bjornulf

I think sometimes it's as simple as stubborn pride. Some people feel they have done nothing wrong, or don't understand the rules, or don't agree with them...so they repeatedly or flagrantly choose to ignore them. Sometimes I think it can be an innocent mistake, especially when someone is new.

I get that Bjornulf is only one person and sometimes could misunderstand a posters intention, thus resulting in a ban. I think that is one of the reasons why he has indicated several times that people should email him an apology if they want the ban lifted.

To me, it seems a little thing to do, but to others it's a bridge too far. It seems a shame because some of those who are gone had interesting insights to share. We are all real people behind our user names, but sometimes this is forgotten. Anyway, I appreciate that this thread has been left open for a discussion.

If people cant be bothered to e mail BV and say sorry, how is that BV's fault.
It probably means they have decided they no longer want to post any more.
It could be foolish pride, it could be stubbornness, but more than likely they just had enough

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bv
Some people get highly offended when I delete posts about their masturbation or ice cream eating or whatever.

WHAT!!??

I missed those. That is too funny. Really? Masturbation? OK. Whatever floats some boats I guess.

>>>I think sometimes it's as simple as stubborn pride. Some people feel they have done nothing wrong, or don't understand the rules, or don't agree with them...so they repeatedly or flagrantly choose to ignore them. Sometimes I think it can be an innocent mistake, especially when someone is new.

Yes, it is often a matter of stubborn pride, but perhaps behind that is a feeling of being hurt or offended or unappreciated, especially if they have made valuable contributions over a long period of time. That is quite different from a troll, whose only purpose is provocation and who doesn't plan to stick around anyway.

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Bliss
>>>I think sometimes it's as simple as stubborn pride. Some people feel they have done nothing wrong, or don't understand the rules, or don't agree with them...so they repeatedly or flagrantly choose to ignore them. Sometimes I think it can be an innocent mistake, especially when someone is new.

Yes, it is often a matter of stubborn pride, but perhaps behind that is a feeling of being hurt or offended or unappreciated, especially if they have made valuable contributions over a long period of time. That is quite different from a troll, whose only purpose is provocation and who doesn't plan to stick around anyway.

I cant see how a regular poster can be a troll
Anyone who can't say sorry to rejoin their friends and fellow posters would have to have such an inflated ego. I doubt very much that its because of ego or stubbornness they don't say sorry.
Like i said they probably have had enough of negative posters and constantly trying to be understood.

My time is limited on this planet. Because I am neither superman nor Chuck Norris, I have to do things quick, so that I can live a real life outside IORR. It takes one second to delete a thread or a post, usually I have spent ten minutes or more looking into the case, always reported by somebody, I never look for moderation on my own. Then if somebody is seriously offended because I delete something then sorry, but I don't have time to cuddle and smalltalk. I am always available to clear up misunderstandings.

There will be a time when I close down the IORR forums for posting. That will be when I am too busy with other things in life. I think we are getting closer to that time now, but we are not there yet. Then IORR will be like New York Times and Rolling Stones and NME etc, basically a portal where there are editorial news, but no open forum. Which is fine with me. These discussions about moderation and people who are anonymous and still offended still not able to say sorry are wearing me out and they bring be one inch closer to the final moment every time someone question my integrity. But it will be running for some time still due to the 99.9% others who don't question my integrity and judgement.

Bjornulf

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Bliss
>>>I think sometimes it's as simple as stubborn pride. Some people feel they have done nothing wrong, or don't understand the rules, or don't agree with them...so they repeatedly or flagrantly choose to ignore them. Sometimes I think it can be an innocent mistake, especially when someone is new.

Yes, it is often a matter of stubborn pride, but perhaps behind that is a feeling of being hurt or offended or unappreciated, especially if they have made valuable contributions over a long period of time. That is quite different from a troll, whose only purpose is provocation and who doesn't plan to stick around anyway.

Okay, so maybe I should have added an inflated ego to the list?

Seriously, I'm not trying to diminish anyone's value, but I do think sometimes we all take ourselves too seriously here. I often feel undervalued and unappreciated for my contributions in my real life. That's called being a Mom.

Bliss, I do get what you are saying...but if people want to return, the solution is simple. It ain't rocket science, as my Dad used to say, and life really is too short. On the other hand, they can start their own site, as some have done, and hopefully that will help them move on. For some, I suspect that is impossible.

Bjornulf, I hope alll the recent problems don't lead you to the point of closing the forum. I think it would be giving some people exactly what they want and the rest of us would suffer for it. Thanks, as always, for all that you do here.

Sorry bv we are not questioning you, but its nice that we have this opportunity to understand you.
We thank you for your fantastic web site. IORR can never ever be topped
I watched it for 10 years before i ever posted, it gave me so much happyness over the years just having all this information and fellow Stones fans
Cheer up bv we still love this site and you

I think the Do Not Offend rule is a good one. It's clear to understand when applied to such thinks as personal attacks on other posters, a bit less clear to understand what might offend the moderator. That's the somewhat subjective part that some folks have a bit of trouble with. As an international, public forum there are bound to be big differences caused by cultural, political, age, gender and moral factors that just have to be worked out the hard way sometimes.

latebloomer, I hope you feel that we appreciate and value your contributions here, and the good thing is your kids will likely grow up and come to appreciate your contributions at home too. I know how you feel and hope them having their own kids some day will put things in proper perspective.

The banned iorrians i was thinking of were not trolls nor supermen and they probably also value their time and the effort behind their posts here.

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Redhotcarpet
The banned iorrians i was thinking of were not trolls nor supermen and they probably also value their time and the effort behind their posts here.

I'm sorry, but a lot of it is this attitude of I'm right and your wrong, so you should change the way you do things because I'm right and your wrong.... Well, you know what? Maybe they are right sometimes, but they don't run the site and nobody, I mean nobody can change someone else's thinking by kicking sand in their face. I've been around enough to know that you can't really change anyone. Most people can't even change themselves. So, you either accept the way things are and enjoy yourself as much as possible, or you leave and find somewhere or someone else. Bjornulf moderates the forum as he sees fit. He's been doing it a long time and I don't have any reason to complain about it. Does that mean I think he always makes the right decisions? No, but then I'm not on the other side of his computer so I don't know what he's been staring at, what kind of complaints he's been getting, so on...

And yes, my dear Green Lady...I broke my own rule and posted while I was steamed. Ugh.