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Spud

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Doxa


... But that's the beauty of collecting stuff: you don't need to listen them...

- Doxa

I could never buy a different pressing , re-release or re-master without listening to it.

But then I'm not really a collector in the purist sense.

I'm perhaps more of a hunter... in pursuit of either better sounding or interestingly different sounding versions of the albums I love.

With regard to Exile ... I have preferences for different pressings or editions depending on my mood ...

... or whether I want to listen or dance


Edited to add that , for the record, an original "Artisan" pressing in decent nick remains the essence of what Exile is all about .

How do you know to have an Artisan pressing? I have a 72 pressing but don’t seem to see Artisan anywhere on it. It’s a stonking sounding record though!

Rod

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bitusa2012
How do you know to have an Artisan pressing? I have a 72 pressing but don’t seem to see Artisan anywhere on it. It’s a stonking sounding record though!

Look for the Artisan stamp in the dead wax (trail out grooves).
It looks like a circle, or snaredrum, with two "drumsticks" sticking out.

Artisan logo

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RisingStone

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treaclefingers

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RisingStone

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Taylor1
Exile is not a blues album it covers most American music, including gospel ,country, r&b, and great rockers-Rocks Off, Rip this Joint, Tumbling Dice, Happy, All Down the Line, Soul Survivor, and the bonus Dancing in the Light

In terms of musical style, you are right. EOMS is an all genre-encompassing collection of the American music. As treaclefingers points out, my view may be rather esoteric.

Am I off the mark in sensing the strong blues feel in every track on these two records, regardless of the musical style of each track?

The record sounds like a dirt road. So from that perspective, if the the blues, and other non-blues tracks played are more earthy perhaps that's what you're getting at and if so I can see that, or rather 'hear' that.

That’s the point I’m trying to make. EOMS is perhaps the most earthy-sounding record they made, and that’s why I love it.

On the other hand, Clapton’s Mr. Johnson album is deprived of earthiness to one last bit. No dirt road to be seen in front. Too clean to be the blues.

I saw Eric at the House of Blues in Los Angeles, 1994, with about 300 people. I was right up front, a few feet from the band in the relatively small club. He was promoting 'From The Cradle', his first album of blues covers. He was sober, and every note was perfect. And boring.

I'd seen him in 1979 (Muddy Waters opened). He had a car crash on the way to the concert. He was still drinking. His blues sounded wondrous that night. He sounded good on Blue and Lonesome, in fact his two cuts are among the best.

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24FPS

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RisingStone

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treaclefingers

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RisingStone

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Taylor1
Exile is not a blues album it covers most American music, including gospel ,country, r&b, and great rockers-Rocks Off, Rip this Joint, Tumbling Dice, Happy, All Down the Line, Soul Survivor, and the bonus Dancing in the Light

In terms of musical style, you are right. EOMS is an all genre-encompassing collection of the American music. As treaclefingers points out, my view may be rather esoteric.

Am I off the mark in sensing the strong blues feel in every track on these two records, regardless of the musical style of each track?

The record sounds like a dirt road. So from that perspective, if the the blues, and other non-blues tracks played are more earthy perhaps that's what you're getting at and if so I can see that, or rather 'hear' that.

That’s the point I’m trying to make. EOMS is perhaps the most earthy-sounding record they made, and that’s why I love it.

On the other hand, Clapton’s Mr. Johnson album is deprived of earthiness to one last bit. No dirt road to be seen in front. Too clean to be the blues.

I saw Eric at the House of Blues in Los Angeles, 1994, with about 300 people. I was right up front, a few feet from the band in the relatively small club. He was promoting 'From The Cradle', his first album of blues covers. He was sober, and every note was perfect. And boring.

I'd seen him in 1979 (Muddy Waters opened). He had a car crash on the way to the concert. He was still drinking. His blues sounded wondrous that night. He sounded good on Blue and Lonesome, in fact his two cuts are among the best.

Nothing But The Blues Tour is generally regarded as one of the high points of Clapton’s career by his fans, and I greatly enjoyed the arena shows myself (I saw four of them), but, yeah, I see your point. His approach to the blues on that tour was, to borrow TravelinMan’s phrase upthread, somewhat white scholar-ish. The From The Cradle album sounds live and more natural than Me And Mr. Johnson, though.

Speaking of that, his MAMJ Tour 2004 was very good. He picked five songs off the album and all sounded great.

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan

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RisingStone
The Rolling Stones had already released a blues album decades before Blue & Lonesome came out — that is Exile On Main Street. To me, the music they deliver on that double album sounds much bluesier than on the rather slick B & L. The overall coarse-tonal texture is the key. For me, EOMS is the blues album by the boys.

Speaking of that — another example of a slick blues album by a renowned white rocker is Eric Clapton’s Me And Mr. Johnson. Perhaps the most sanitized blues record I have ever come across. Its companion CD/DVD combo, Sessions For Robert J, is a much more spontaneous and satisfying effort IMHO.

I thought the Mr. Johnson album was pretty damn good and much less slick than some of his efforts. Especially the 80’s stuff. A lot of it sounded live off the floor.

Me And Mr. Johnson is overproduced IMHO. I hardly feel the songs on the album “live”.

As for Clapton’s 80’s works, most of them didn’t aim at blues albums to begin with, e.g. Behind The Sun and August.

I seem to remember the full band songs w/Billy Preston as sounding live tracked with most likely vocal overdubs. There were a few stripped down songs like the Hot Tamales number.

I guess I’m not sure what qualifies as overproduced for you. The album sounds natural to me, for example the drums sound like they would in the room and the band is playing together. Clapton’s vocals are never really over polished. Idk maybe I’m missing something.

To me, Me And Mr Johnson sounds cold and artificial, blues chemical-synthesized in a high tech laboratory or manufactured in an ultramodern factory. Too polished, too clinical in other words. Admittedly I am no knowledgeable person whatsoever about the recording process in general, but the way I feel is that this one is marred by modern technology, pro-tool and the like. In comparison, Sessions For Robert J sounds warm and natural.

Just for reference, aother example of an overproduced album in the Clapton catalogue is Pilgrim.

That being said, ultimately it all depends on your ears, how a particular record sounds for you — it is each listener who decides a song or an album is properly produced or not. I recall someone posted on the internet forum that Layla the album is overproduced (I can give some credit for this remark).

I bought the Mr. Johnson album (CD) in the mountains of North Georgia in an old record store. I listened to it on the drive through the mountains back home to east Tennessee. So my first experience with the album is about as Earthy as one can get. I think Doyle Bramhall's slide is a fantastic addition.

You inspired me to pop the album in again, and I'd say it has a Nashville production sound to it. Great separation between instruments, but it sounds like a lot of the takes were live off the floor with minimal overdubs.

It does sound "clean", it's well recorded for sure. I think the arrangements are good though, and have an Earthy vibe to them that pairs well with the rural mountains of the American South.

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TravelinMan
I bought the Mr. Johnson album (CD) in the mountains of North Georgia in an old record store. I listened to it on the drive through the mountains back home to east Tennessee. So my first experience with the album is about as Earthy as one can get. I think Doyle Bramhall's slide is a fantastic addition.

You inspired me to pop the album in again, and I'd say it has a Nashville production sound to it. Great separation between instruments, but it sounds like a lot of the takes were live off the floor with minimal overdubs.

It does sound "clean", it's well recorded for sure. I think the arrangements are good though, and have an Earthy vibe to them that pairs well with the rural mountains of the American South.

After all is said and done, all I can and should do is respect your sensitivity, the way you feel. And vice versa.

Most likely you go your way and I’ll go mine.

By the way, your remark on blues as pop music, performers in flashy clothes trying to make money — that deserves some credit. One of the very few surviving photos of Robert Johnson catches this legendary, idolized blues man in luxurious pinstripes. Showman or what?

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan
I bought the Mr. Johnson album (CD) in the mountains of North Georgia in an old record store. I listened to it on the drive through the mountains back home to east Tennessee. So my first experience with the album is about as Earthy as one can get. I think Doyle Bramhall's slide is a fantastic addition.

You inspired me to pop the album in again, and I'd say it has a Nashville production sound to it. Great separation between instruments, but it sounds like a lot of the takes were live off the floor with minimal overdubs.

It does sound "clean", it's well recorded for sure. I think the arrangements are good though, and have an Earthy vibe to them that pairs well with the rural mountains of the American South.

After all is said and done, all I can and should do is respect your sensitivity, the way you feel. And vice versa.

Most likely you go your way and I’ll go mine.

By the way, your remark on blues as pop music, performers in flashy clothes trying to make money — that deserves some credit. One of the very few surviving photos of Robert Johnson catches this legendary, idolized blues man in luxurious pinstripes. Showman or what?

Absolutely, your comment about individual’s experiences are paramount. I just happened to have a lasting first impression of the album. But make no mistake, it is a very clean and polished record. Exile on the other hand is not that. Save a few songs like “Loving Cup” and “Stop Breaking Down”; those could have been on Sticky Fingers. I’m going off the top of my head but there are some polished recordings on Exile mixed in with the grime of Nellcote.

Anyway, you should check out “Escaping The Delta”. It’s probably one of the most thorough examinations of blues music. People would be very surprised at the early history and the performers. Good stuff!

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TravelinMan

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan
I bought the Mr. Johnson album (CD) in the mountains of North Georgia in an old record store. I listened to it on the drive through the mountains back home to east Tennessee. So my first experience with the album is about as Earthy as one can get. I think Doyle Bramhall's slide is a fantastic addition.

You inspired me to pop the album in again, and I'd say it has a Nashville production sound to it. Great separation between instruments, but it sounds like a lot of the takes were live off the floor with minimal overdubs.

It does sound "clean", it's well recorded for sure. I think the arrangements are good though, and have an Earthy vibe to them that pairs well with the rural mountains of the American South.

After all is said and done, all I can and should do is respect your sensitivity, the way you feel. And vice versa.

Most likely you go your way and I’ll go mine.

By the way, your remark on blues as pop music, performers in flashy clothes trying to make money — that deserves some credit. One of the very few surviving photos of Robert Johnson catches this legendary, idolized blues man in luxurious pinstripes. Showman or what?

Absolutely, your comment about individual’s experiences are paramount. I just happened to have a lasting first impression of the album. But make no mistake, it is a very clean and polished record. Exile on the other hand is not that. Save a few songs like “Loving Cup” and “Stop Breaking Down”; those could have been on Sticky Fingers. I’m going off the top of my head but there are some polished recordings on Exile mixed in with the grime of Nellcote.

Anyway, you should check out “Escaping The Delta”. It’s probably one of the most thorough examinations of blues music. People would be very surprised at the early history and the performers. Good stuff!

Not quite half the album comes from what were the STICKY FINGERS sessions.

I've found EOMS to be more enjoyable when people aren't talking about it.

Here, specifically. It's one of those. It gets the hype etc.

It is a fabulous album.

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TravelinMan

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan
I bought the Mr. Johnson album (CD) in the mountains of North Georgia in an old record store. I listened to it on the drive through the mountains back home to east Tennessee. So my first experience with the album is about as Earthy as one can get. I think Doyle Bramhall's slide is a fantastic addition.

You inspired me to pop the album in again, and I'd say it has a Nashville production sound to it. Great separation between instruments, but it sounds like a lot of the takes were live off the floor with minimal overdubs.

It does sound "clean", it's well recorded for sure. I think the arrangements are good though, and have an Earthy vibe to them that pairs well with the rural mountains of the American South.

After all is said and done, all I can and should do is respect your sensitivity, the way you feel. And vice versa.

Most likely you go your way and I’ll go mine.

By the way, your remark on blues as pop music, performers in flashy clothes trying to make money — that deserves some credit. One of the very few surviving photos of Robert Johnson catches this legendary, idolized blues man in luxurious pinstripes. Showman or what?

Absolutely, your comment about individual’s experiences are paramount. I just happened to have a lasting first impression of the album. But make no mistake, it is a very clean and polished record. Exile on the other hand is not that. Save a few songs like “Loving Cup” and “Stop Breaking Down”; those could have been on Sticky Fingers. I’m going off the top of my head but there are some polished recordings on Exile mixed in with the grime of Nellcote.

Anyway, you should check out “Escaping The Delta”. It’s probably one of the most thorough examinations of blues music. People would be very surprised at the early history and the performers. Good stuff!

Thanks for the recommendation of the book. I checked the reviews online and it looks like the author focuses on blues as commercial pop music, disenchanting the purists embracing a romanticized image of blues men as some Mississippi Delta troubadours. Interesting point of view indeed.

Small trivia regarding the Me And Mr. Johnson album: the series of inner leaflet photos show Eric sitting on a chair, holding an acoustic guitar in his arms — they were taken in Osaka during his Japan tour 2003 (photographer: Toru Moriyama). The Osaka shows were 17, 19 and 20, November therefore the photo session must have taken place during these dates. When You Got A Good Friend (show opener) and Kind Hearted Woman Blues from the forthcoming album were premiered on the tour.

I’m Osakan local (currently living abroad). It amuses me to think, while I was busy at work on my mundane daily job, one of my musical heroes was in a modern photo studio somewhere downtown Osaka where I frequented, not in some quaint hotel room in San Antonio (another example of romanticization).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-06 21:50 by RisingStone.

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RobberBride

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bitusa2012
How do you know to have an Artisan pressing? I have a 72 pressing but don’t seem to see Artisan anywhere on it. It’s a stonking sounding record though!

Look for the Artisan stamp in the dead wax (trail out grooves).
It looks like a circle, or snaredrum, with two "drumsticks" sticking out.

Artisan logo

Yep, it just sounds more alive and real than any subsequent master or pressing .

That said . I have a German "Electra " pressing [from I thank later in the 70's or the early 80's ] which has a very clear and sweet sound, with great insight into that glorious ball of noise that is Exile .

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan

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RisingStone

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TravelinMan
I bought the Mr. Johnson album (CD) in the mountains of North Georgia in an old record store. I listened to it on the drive through the mountains back home to east Tennessee. So my first experience with the album is about as Earthy as one can get. I think Doyle Bramhall's slide is a fantastic addition.

You inspired me to pop the album in again, and I'd say it has a Nashville production sound to it. Great separation between instruments, but it sounds like a lot of the takes were live off the floor with minimal overdubs.

It does sound "clean", it's well recorded for sure. I think the arrangements are good though, and have an Earthy vibe to them that pairs well with the rural mountains of the American South.

After all is said and done, all I can and should do is respect your sensitivity, the way you feel. And vice versa.

Most likely you go your way and I’ll go mine.

By the way, your remark on blues as pop music, performers in flashy clothes trying to make money — that deserves some credit. One of the very few surviving photos of Robert Johnson catches this legendary, idolized blues man in luxurious pinstripes. Showman or what?

Absolutely, your comment about individual’s experiences are paramount. I just happened to have a lasting first impression of the album. But make no mistake, it is a very clean and polished record. Exile on the other hand is not that. Save a few songs like “Loving Cup” and “Stop Breaking Down”; those could have been on Sticky Fingers. I’m going off the top of my head but there are some polished recordings on Exile mixed in with the grime of Nellcote.

Anyway, you should check out “Escaping The Delta”. It’s probably one of the most thorough examinations of blues music. People would be very surprised at the early history and the performers. Good stuff!

Thanks for the recommendation of the book. I checked the reviews online and it looks like the author focuses on blues as commercial pop music, disenchanting the purists embracing a romanticized image of blues men as some Mississippi Delta troubadours. Interesting point of view indeed.

Small trivia regarding the Me And Mr. Johnson album: the series of inner leaflet photos show Eric sitting on a chair, holding an acoustic guitar in his arms — they were taken in Osaka during his Japan tour 2003 (photographer: Toru Moriyama). The Osaka shows were 17, 19 and 20, November therefore the photo session must have taken place during these dates. When You Got A Good Friend (show opener) and Kind Hearted Woman Blues from the forthcoming album were premiered on the tour.

I’m Osakan local (currently living abroad). It amuses me to think, while I was busy at work on my mundane daily job, one of my musical heroes was in a modern photo studio somewhere downtown Osaka where I frequented, not in some quaint hotel room in San Antonio (another example of romanticization).

Interesting!

Yes, the author explores the surprisingly lavish and vaudevillian roots of the blues. The commercial stylings of the time and record sales etc. Let’s just say most people’s modern impressions are skewed by revisionist writers and marketers.

Comparing EXILE - probably the greatest rock album ever made - to some blues hero tribute album is as trivial as discussing if SGT. PEPPER is more blues than GREATEST HITS by ABBA.

Sometimes it feels like'the blues' is seen like some metaphysical or mystical item. It's not. It is just music. Clapton's Robert Johnson tribute might be weak, but it is still a pure blues album. EXILE is not a blues album, despite the band made it is heavily rooted in blues, and some cuts in it are pure blues tracks.

- Doxa

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Doxa
Comparing EXILE - probably the greatest rock album ever made - to some blues hero tribute album is as trivial as discussing if SGT. PEPPER is more blues than GREATEST HITS by ABBA.

Sometimes it feels like'the blues' is seen like some metaphysical or mystical item. It's not. It is just music. Clapton's Robert Johnson tribute might be weak, but it is still a pure blues album. EXILE is not a blues album, despite the band made it is heavily rooted in blues, and some cuts in it are pure blues tracks.

- Doxa

We were comparing the production styles (or lack thereof in Exile's case), not the content.

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Doxa
Comparing EXILE - probably the greatest rock album ever made - to some blues hero tribute album is as trivial as discussing if SGT. PEPPER is more blues than GREATEST HITS by ABBA.

Sometimes it feels like'the blues' is seen like some metaphysical or mystical item. It's not. It is just music. Clapton's Robert Johnson tribute might be weak, but it is still a pure blues album. EXILE is not a blues album, despite the band made it is heavily rooted in blues, and some cuts in it are pure blues tracks.

- Doxa

As I agree with Taylor1, when it comes to the purely musical style, EOMS is not a blues album as a whole. In that sense, I can’t deny your conclusion, either. And following your theory, Blue And Lonesome is a pure blues album, slick or not.

This reminds me of the agenda, Some Girls is not a ‘punk’ album just because it is influenced or inspired by the punk.

That being said, I wonder, can a listener be 100% free from a “metaphorical or mystical” view (whatever it is), when you listen to music, under any circumstances, all the time? I’m not so sure…



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-08 00:21 by RisingStone.

Hello friends,

is there again a new remaster of Exile from Japan released?

I found this on Discogs:

[www.discogs.com]

Cannot find it on CD sellers sites from Japan.

There is a download from a well known site from ISRAel,
but that comes with vinyl crackles...


Artist: The Rolling Stones
Title: Exile On Main St.
Year Of Release: 1972 / 2023
Label: Polydor / Rolling Stones Records / Universal Music #UICY-79242K

EDIT - Artwork here:

[workupload.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-10 17:37 by Rank Stranger.

Isn't this just part of the new SHM series of the post 1970 catalogue?

Rolling Stones Exile On Main Street.
Label: Rolling Stones Records / Polydor / Universal
Catalog Number: UICY-79242K
Barcode: 6 00753 91601 8
Format: Format: Limited Cardboard sleeve reissue from The Rolling Stones features SHM-CD format.
Label Number CD: UICY-79242K
Matrix CD: (4X Universal Logo) UICX-1336 5W
Mastering SID Code: IFPI L244
Mould SID Code: IFPI 4011
Made in Japan
Release Date 07-07-2023

This release is a complete mess.

It was made in Japan for the rest of the world.
Packaging (mini vinyl sleeve, OBI, inner and cards) is based on December 2020 Japanese only release UICY-79242
CD is based on the previous Japanese release from 2010, namely, on UICY-94572, which in turn is a reissue of the 1st CD from 2CD deluxe UICY-1478/9.

It is not new 2023 remaster but 2010 bickwalled Polydor mastering (mastered by Stephen Marcussen).

The only thing that is relatively new to Europe is SHM material that was used for CD pressing.

If you live in Europe you can find this CD in any MediaMarkt or FNAC (or online retailer like amazon).

PS. There are another 9 studio albums from the 70s - from Sticky Fingers to Dirty Work that were issued on July 7, 2023. They all share the same pattern in terms of packaging and came with 2009 Polydor mastering.

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treaclefingers
Isn't this just part of the new SHM series of the post 1970 catalogue?

That's UICY-79242 without the "K"

Discogs lists another "K" release from 2023 "IORR":

[www.discogs.com]

I can only repeat. That set of releases with letter K is a mess.

UICY-792xx (without letter K) are Japanese only, December 2020. Digital content is based on flat transfers of the original analogue master tapes (up to Steel Wheels; from Voodoo Lounge till A Bigger Bang - 2009 remaster; Blue And Lonesome - original 2016 master)

UICY-792xxK (with letter K) - Japan for the rest of the world. Packaging is based on Japanese only December 2020 release. Digital content - 2009/2010 remaster. Mastered by Stephen Marcussen, brickwalled.

It is easy, you know .

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ironbelly
I can only repeat....

I was still writing my reply to treaclefingers when you made your comment;
I read it afterwards.

Thanks for your information ironbelly!

OK, I'm glad we got all that figured out!

So to paraphrase Ironbelly, "stick with the vinyl releases!"

I'll add the Abbey Road half speed master from a couple of years ago is a good option, if you don't have a clean copy of the original release.

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Rank Stranger

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ironbelly
I can only repeat....

I was still writing my reply to treaclefingers when you made your comment;
I read it afterwards.

Thanks for your information ironbelly!

You are welcome!

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treaclefingers
OK, I'm glad we got all that figured out!

So to paraphrase Ironbelly, "stick with the vinyl releases!"

I'll add the Abbey Road half speed master from a couple of years ago is a good option, if you don't have a clean copy of the original release.

Actually, stick to old CBS CDs

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers
OK, I'm glad we got all that figured out!

So to paraphrase Ironbelly, "stick with the vinyl releases!"

I'll add the Abbey Road half speed master from a couple of years ago is a good option, if you don't have a clean copy of the original release.

Actually, stick to old CBS CDs

the old ones from the 80´s ??

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Dorn

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers
OK, I'm glad we got all that figured out!

So to paraphrase Ironbelly, "stick with the vinyl releases!"

I'll add the Abbey Road half speed master from a couple of years ago is a good option, if you don't have a clean copy of the original release.

Actually, stick to old CBS CDs

the old ones from the 80´s ??

Funny I actually bought Exile when it came out in the 80s so have that copy...I haven't listened to it in some time but recall thinking it wasn't that great.

I was young and foolish then so who knows...though now I'm old and foolish.

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treaclefingers

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Dorn

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers
OK, I'm glad we got all that figured out!

So to paraphrase Ironbelly, "stick with the vinyl releases!"

I'll add the Abbey Road half speed master from a couple of years ago is a good option, if you don't have a clean copy of the original release.

Actually, stick to old CBS CDs

the old ones from the 80´s ??

Funny I actually bought Exile when it came out in the 80s so have that copy...I haven't listened to it in some time but recall thinking it wasn't that great.

I was young and foolish then so who knows...though now I'm old and foolish.

You know, I was kidding. But there is a drop of truth there.
Actually, not a single series of CDs - CBS, Virgin, Polydor, flat transfers - is an ultimate case. Some of CBS CDs are better than Virgin. Some Virgins are better than CBS. Some Virgins are CBS + soft limiting. That is a tough case. Even a few 'flat transfers' are worse comparing to earlier editions.

For Exile there is no perfect edition for sure. You can prefer any. Every version of Exile on CD have its own bugs. I do not want to start a holy war here. It is a sensitive question.

PS. For Exile, apart of playback speed issue, flat transfer 2011 in terms of loudness and tonality is closer to CBS than to Virgin. So, you know...

If you have decent hearing stay away from anything that Marcussen has mastered.
My fear is that he will be involved in the new release.

I stay with my original LP it still sound great ....and the sound is the way they planned it back then

__________________________

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rbp
If you have decent hearing stay away from anything that Marcussen has mastered.
My fear is that he will be involved in the new release.

I uploaded the SOME GIRLS deluxe and compared it to the Virgin and holy crap, it sounded horrendous - Stephen Marcussen is a disaster - so I deleted it.

The Japanese UIGY-9081 SHM SACD is as close to an early vinyl Artisan pressing as there is. They are aren’t cheap, but played on a decent sound system it’s a wowser sound experience. I have multiple quality vinyl copies and cd’s. I have no interest in anything else that shows up. My ears are happy with what I have. I still like early pressing US Monarch and Presswell vinyl. Early press UK’s are close. For digital the SHM SACD is the best I have heard. Exile was recorded all over the place. That’s why the sound is different track to track. There is no perfect down the middle sound because it wasn’t possible to do it then imo.