Well, I somewhat answered my own questions after viewing this thread:

[iorr.org]

If this is correct it shows only 6-7 of the 18 songs on EOMS have their origin in Nell Cote. "Loving Cup" predates Nell Cote. Any others? I know "Tumbling Dice" existed in a formative version before Nell Cote but was entirely reworked, apparently in LA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-08 17:52 by rbk.

Have you tried the Exile album talk-thread?

[iorr.org]

Quote
rbk
Well, I somewhat answered my own questions after viewing this thread:

[iorr.org]

If this is correct it shows only 6-7 of the 18 songs on EOMS have their origin in Nell Cote. "Loving Cup" predates Nell Cote. Any others? I know "Tumbling Dice" existed in a formative version before Nell Cote but was entirely reworked, apparently in LA.

Yup, most of the album was not recorded at Nellcôte.

Written and recorded for EOMS in France according to all published reports:
Casino Boogie
Following The River
Happy
I'm Not Signifying
Pass The Wine
Plundered My Soul
Rip This Joint
Rocks Off
Soul Survivor
Ventilator Blues


There's some talk that Torn And Frayed was recorded in France. That aside, a decent amount of work was done in Los Angeles post-France. Obviously mixing the album but prior to that some recording.

Everything else was written and initially recorded for LET IT BLEED and more so STICKY FINGERS, which, really, based on the EOMS tracks done for it, could've been a double album and EOMS would be, let's say, a lot different.

Jimmy Miller and others have stated that Sunset Sound in LA was used for the final vocals and overdubs. I don’t think any songs were created in LA. I’m not sure where people get that information because nobody involved has ever said anything like that, while multiple people say vocals and overdubs were done there.

"Shine A Light" was written in 1968 and an early version titled "Get A Line On You" was recorded by Leon Russell in October 1969 with Jagger and possibly Watts, Wyman and Taylor.

LET IT BLEED SESSIONS

Loving Cup
All Down the Line (Acoustic)

STICKY FINGERS SESSIONS

Shake Your Hips
Good Time Women (Tumbling Dice)
Sweet Virginia
Sweet Black Angel
I Just Want to See His Face
All Down the Line (First Electric Version)
Stop Breaking Down
Shine A Light

NELLCOTE

Rocks Off
Rip This Joint
Casino Boogie
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia (Re-recorded)
Loving Cup (Re-recorded)
Happy
Turd on the Run
Ventilator Blues
Let It Loose
All Down the Line (Re-recorded)
Shine A Light (Re-recorded)
Soul Survivor
Pass The Wine (Sophia Loren)
Plundered My Soul
I'm Not Signifying
Following the River

All of the songs basic tracks were done by the time they got to LA in late '71. LA was used for overdubbing. I've also heard that "Torn and Frayed" was completely written and recorded in LA.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-09 08:11 by JordyLicks96.

Quote
JordyLicks96
"Shine A Light" was written in 1968 and an early version titled "Get A Line On You" was recorded by Leon Russell in October 1969 with Jagger and possibly Watts, Wyman and Taylor.

LET IT BLEED SESSIONS

Loving Cup
All Down the Line (Acoustic)

STICKY FINGERS SESSIONS

Shake Your Hips
Good Time Women (Tumbling Dice)
Sweet Virginia
Sweet Black Angel
All Down the Line (First Electric Version)
Stop Breaking Down
Shine A Light (First Stones Recording)

NELLCOTE

Rocks Off
Rip This Joint
Casino Boogie
Happy
Turd on the Run
Ventilator Blues
I Just Want to See His Face
Let It Loose
Soul Survivor
Pass The Wine (Sophia Loren)
Plundered My Soul
I'm Not Signifying
Following the River

All of the songs basic tracks were done by the time they got to LA in late '71. By that point, LA was used for overdubbing. I've also heard that "Torn and Frayed" was completely written and recorded in LA.

The Exile version of All Down The Line is from France, and Loving Cup probably is too. Although, I wonder if it really comes from the Sticky Fingers sessions; it’s totally different than the Let It Bleed version.

Let It Loose is said to be from 1969, and See His Face from 1970 at Olympic with Whitlock.

The Jim Price quote on Torn And Frayed confirms my suspicions on that one. Who said it was done in LA?

Turd On The Run was probably just a guitar jam recorded in France with overdubs in LA. I read they just left that one with the working title.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-09 19:03 by TravelinMan.

Quote
TravelinMan

The Exile version of All Down The Line is from France, and Loving Cup probably is too. Although, I wonder if it really comes from the Sticky Fingers sessions; it’s totally different than the Let It Bleed version.

Let It Loose is said to be from 1969, and See His Face from 1970 at Olympic with Womack.

The Jim Price quote on Torn And Frayed confirms my suspicions on that one. Who said it was done in LA?

Turd On The Run was probably just a guitar jam recorded in France with overdubs in LA. I read they just left that one with the working title.

Oh yeah, "All Down The Line" & "Loving Cup" were re-recorded during the Nellcote sessions including "Tumbling Dice", "Sweet Virginia" & "Shine A Light." The "All Down The Line" that was released as a Japanese bonus track on the EXILE reissue is definitely from the STICKY FINGERS sessions in mid-1970.

[www.youtube.com]

"Let It Loose" to me has that murky Nellcote basement sound.

I can't recall exactly where I had heard about "Torn and Frayed" but of course it could very well have been done in France too.

I think there's bonus footage from STONES IN EXILE where Mick reads off the list of EXILE songs recorded at Olympic Studios & at his home in Stargroves. I believe that's where Mick mentioned "I Just Want to See His Face" being recorded at Olympic.

Seems there were sessions in LA.

Dr.John: I got a call from K.Richards.We are coming to LA to cut an album.Want to play?
They needed all kinds of musicians. I rounded up a crew. .
The sessions, which turned into Eoms, came out all right. I dug workin with them, even so i wasn't a big fan of their music.
I liked the rhythms their drummer Charlie Watts was putting down . . .

Quote
JordyLicks96

Quote
TravelinMan

The Exile version of All Down The Line is from France, and Loving Cup probably is too. Although, I wonder if it really comes from the Sticky Fingers sessions; it’s totally different than the Let It Bleed version.

Let It Loose is said to be from 1969, and See His Face from 1970 at Olympic with Womack.

The Jim Price quote on Torn And Frayed confirms my suspicions on that one. Who said it was done in LA?

Turd On The Run was probably just a guitar jam recorded in France with overdubs in LA. I read they just left that one with the working title.

Oh yeah, "All Down The Line" & "Loving Cup" were re-recorded during the Nellcote sessions including "Tumbling Dice", "Sweet Virginia" & "Shine A Light." The "All Down The Line" that was released as a Japanese bonus track on the EXILE reissue is definitely from the STICKY FINGERS sessions in mid-1970.

[www.youtube.com]

"Let It Loose" to me has that murky Nellcote basement sound.

I can't recall exactly where I had heard about "Torn and Frayed" but of course it could very well have been done in France too.

I think there's bonus footage from STONES IN EXILE where Mick reads off the list of EXILE songs recorded at Olympic Studios & at his home in Stargroves. I believe that's where Mick mentioned "I Just Want to See His Face" being recorded at Olympic.

Many of the best Stones-sites have December 1971-March 1972 as recording dates for Torn And Frayed. That's when they recorded in LA.

I'm pretty sure Let It Loose was done way earlier than on the Nellcote-sessions. The question is more whether it was 1969 or 1970, methinks.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
JordyLicks96

Quote
TravelinMan

The Exile version of All Down The Line is from France, and Loving Cup probably is too. Although, I wonder if it really comes from the Sticky Fingers sessions; it’s totally different than the Let It Bleed version.

Let It Loose is said to be from 1969, and See His Face from 1970 at Olympic with Womack.

The Jim Price quote on Torn And Frayed confirms my suspicions on that one. Who said it was done in LA?

Turd On The Run was probably just a guitar jam recorded in France with overdubs in LA. I read they just left that one with the working title.

Oh yeah, "All Down The Line" & "Loving Cup" were re-recorded during the Nellcote sessions including "Tumbling Dice", "Sweet Virginia" & "Shine A Light." The "All Down The Line" that was released as a Japanese bonus track on the EXILE reissue is definitely from the STICKY FINGERS sessions in mid-1970.

[www.youtube.com]

"Let It Loose" to me has that murky Nellcote basement sound.

I can't recall exactly where I had heard about "Torn and Frayed" but of course it could very well have been done in France too.

I think there's bonus footage from STONES IN EXILE where Mick reads off the list of EXILE songs recorded at Olympic Studios & at his home in Stargroves. I believe that's where Mick mentioned "I Just Want to See His Face" being recorded at Olympic.

Many of the best Stones-sites have December 1971-March 1972 as recording dates for Torn And Frayed. That's when they recorded in LA.

I'm pretty sure Let It Loose was done way earlier than on the Nellcote-sessions. The question is more whether it was 1969 or 1970, methinks.

True, but none of those sites list their sources, and they seem to be cobbled together from all the quotes out there and fan knowledge/opinions.

Torn And Frayed has two specific mentions by actual people involved: a friend of late engineer Joe Zagarino saying he’s the “Joe” in the song during the vocal overdub session in LA. Plus the Jim Price quote talking about recording it in the Nellcote mansion.

Jagger, Richards, and Jimmy Miller all say LA was used for overdubs. Vocals, some guitar stuff (Richards and Taylor overdubs), and the guest musicians.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-09 15:36 by TravelinMan.

Quote
CousinC
Seems there were sessions in LA.

Dr.John: I got a call from K.Richards.We are coming to LA to cut an album.Want to play?
They needed all kinds of musicians. I rounded up a crew. .
The sessions, which turned into Eoms, came out all right. I dug workin with them, even so i wasn't a big fan of their music.
I liked the rhythms their drummer Charlie Watts was putting down . . .

Absolutely. Vocal and overdubs sessions that feature guest musicians like Dr. John and backup singers, Billy Preston, Bill Plummer.

Yeah
But why was Charlie playin then?

Reg. Dr. Johns Autobio there were more Musicans around like his guitar player and the REAL Amyl Nitrate who was angry about that name on the cover.
Seems there was some bad blood at the end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-09 17:27 by CousinC.

Quote
CousinC
Yeah
But why was Charlie playin then?

Reg. Dr. Johns Autobio there were more Musicans around like his guitar player and the REAL Amyl Nitrate who was angry about that name on the cover.
Seems there was some bad blood at the end.

I don’t think his quote necessarily means Watts was recording drums or if Dr. John liked the drum/rhythms that he already laid down.

Although overdubbing drums is not as common, it certainly can be achieved. So maybe he did overdub a few existing drum parts.

As far as I know, Dr. John ended up on one song: Let It Loose.

I’m pretty sure Jagger just used that name because he couldn’t remember the guy’s actual name. I would be upset too, that’s a huge album to be a part of.

December 4-19, 1971: The Rolling Stones, minus Charlie Watts, hold overdubbing and mixing sessions for
Exile on Main Street at Sunset Sound Studios in Los Angeles, also recording new tracks such as Turd
on the Run, I Just Want to See His Face and Torn and Frayed. Bill Wyman joins the group midway.

[timeisonourside.com]

January-February 1972: Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Mick Taylor continue overdubbing and mixing
for Exile on Main Street at Sunset Sound Studios in Los Angeles.
[www.timeisonourside.com]


Then there's this, strictly recording sessions:

June 16-July 27, 1970: Olympic Sound Studios, London, England
October 17-31, 1970: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Mick Jagger's home Stargroves, Newbury & Olympic Sound Studios, London, England

Obviously that was during the STICKY FINGERS sessions.


July 10-late July 1971: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Keith Richards' home Nellcôte, Villefranche-sur-mer, France
October 14-November 23, 1971: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Keith Richards' home Nellcôte, Villefranche-sur-mer, France

December 4-19, 1971: Sunset Sound Studios, Los Angeles, USA
[timeisonourside.com]

I guess I've never paid attention to the amount of time between the first and second France sessions at Keith's.

At the bottom of the Los Angeles 1971 notes at nzentgraf there's this:

Note: The basic tracks of these songs were recorded in Villefranche,
France in Summer or even earlier at sessions in London, Olympic
Sound Studios (see entries from 1969 onwards).


Keith says this:

This was done in the basement of my house, this grand Edwardian Villa called Villa Nellcote in Villefranche in Cap-sur-mer (sic), where we did all of Exile. I remember writing the riff upstairs in the very elegant front room, and we took it downstairs the same evening and we cut it. A lot of time when ideas come that quick, we don't put down lyrics, we do what what we call vowel movement. You just bellow over the top of it, to get the right sounds for the track.
- Keith Richards, 1993


I know we did that one fairly early on in France because I remember the weather. The basic idea, as you can hear from Good Time Women, was already there. But it took a while for it to turn into Tumbling Dice. We were stuck for a good lyrical hook to go with this really great riff, so we left it in abeyance for a bit. And then I think Mick came up with the title Tumbling Dice, although we may have got it from someone else. Ha!
- Keith Richards, 2010


This has always cracked me up:

With Tumbling Dice we worked on that for a couple of weeks at least, just the basic track. I know we had a hundred reels of tape on the basic track. That was a good song, but it was really like pulling teeth. It just went on and on.
- Andy Johns, engineer


There must have been at least 30 two-inch reels on Tumbling Dice. I mean, Keith sat there one afternoon just playing the reprise for about six hours. Just round and round and round and round. Sitting in a chair with his legs up on something.
- Andy Johns, 2010


Mick said this about the Los Angeles sessions, which the photo of Mick and Keith at the mic is from:

Tumbling Dice, there's an outtake I've found that has completely different lyrics. It wasn't until we got to L.A. that I rewrote them. The original lyrics were crap. So it was nothing to do with the original experience of recording the album, if you see what I mean.
- Mick Jagger, 2009

[timeisonourside.com]

Keith is quoted as saying Sweet Virginia is from the SF sessions. In 2010 he said I can't remember if that was the actual first (Exile track we recorded in Nellcote). That would be beyond even my phenomenal memory. But I recall that Mick had Sweet Virginia prepared and ready to go. I have a feeling that we'd been playing around with that one on the last sessions. Maybe on Sticky Fingers, or whatever. So it was a work in progress.

[timeisonourside.com]


So... if they recorded bottoms in Los Angeles for some songs they did it with Jimmy Miller on drums and the only thing (that I can see at the moment) that seems to point to that possibility is Shine A Light.

Quote
GasLightStreet
So... if they recorded bottoms in Los Angeles for some songs they did it with Jimmy Miller on drums and the only thing (that I can see at the moment) that seems to point to that possibility is Shine A Light.

Yeah, I was thinking that and possibly the outro to "Tumbling Dice".

I'll have to compare the Exile version of Shine A Light to the version that is purportedly from Olympic though.

Well, I always thought Charlie wasn't at those LA sessions.

But I'm not shure anymore.
Anyway from Dr.John it sounds different.

As a drummer myself I'd like to know more about it.
Please - somebody ask Charlie now . . lol

I think the way Mick feels about EXILE is that from a fans perspective the album is overhyped b/c of the false story that after they became tax exiles, ALL of EXILE was recorded in the basement in Nellcote. He looks at the album the same way he looks at TATTOO YOU in that "it doesn't have unity of purpose, place, or time" due to the fact EXILE was recorded at a handful of studios between 1969 and 1972.

Quote
CousinC
Well, I always thought Charlie wasn't at those LA sessions.

But I'm not shure anymore.
Anyway from Dr.John it sounds different.

As a drummer myself I'd like to know more about it.
Please - somebody ask Charlie now . . lol

Watts didn't even know who Bill Plummer was and that he played on Exile. I highly doubt he was involved in the LA sessions besides dropping by.

Dr. John ended up on exactly one song singing gang backup vocals. I'm sure he was just referring to what he heard and not what he saw.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
GasLightStreet
So... if they recorded bottoms in Los Angeles for some songs they did it with Jimmy Miller on drums and the only thing (that I can see at the moment) that seems to point to that possibility is Shine A Light.

Yeah, I was thinking that and possibly the outro to "Tumbling Dice".

I'll have to compare the Exile version of Shine A Light to the version that is purportedly from Olympic though.

I've wondered about that at times, the outro for Tumbling Dice - did Charlie just get up and Jimmy sat down while the song recording was in process? Or was it specifically recorded and spliced? Nothing I've read suggests anything specific.

Didin't 'Shine A Light' originate from the sessions for 'Leon Russell'?

Thank for allocating all those nice old quotes GasLightStreet -
Great reading.

There is a reason why you have not noticed the gap in the sessions in France. Thats because one bulk of sessions are missing from the list

The truck arrives on June 7th, the first proper bulk of sessions (not yielding much) takes place until July (as is noted). Then Jagger leaves for Irland, returning around August 2nd.
The second bulk of sessions, from August, is missing from your list. The switch to Taylor on bass on "Tumbling" happens around August 4th (according to Wyman).
In September Keith replaces the bass lines on Soul Survivor and Casino Boogie. These are the crucial sessions for Happy, Rocks Off and Ventilator too. But other tracks are somewhat hard to pinpoint dates of.
The third session bulk, quoted in the list, is correct but a tiny bit misleading. The guitar robbery is on October 1st, cue chaos and uncertainty, and Jade Jagger is born on October 21st, with Jagger in Paris. So a lot of rough mixing and misc stuff is done the last month before departure on Nov 29th.

Quote
GasLightStreet

July 10-late July 1971: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Keith Richards' home Nellcôte, Villefranche-sur-mer, France
October 14-November 23, 1971: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Keith Richards' home Nellcôte, Villefranche-sur-mer, France


I guess I've never paid attention to the amount of time between the first and second France sessions at Keith's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-11 11:01 by RobberBride.

Agree entirely.

I do think Torn & Frayed more likely entirely LA but otherwise yes.

Nellcote, France in general was much more about tax questions and Policy post-Klein than an organised set of questions.

JP

Quote
AmpegVT22
Agree entirely.

I do think Torn & Frayed more likely entirely LA but otherwise yes.

Nellcote, France in general was much more about tax questions and Policy post-Klein than an organised set of questions.

Jim Price said they recorded that in France. They wrote and recorded the vocals, the lap steel by Al Perkins, and probably Richards’ electric guitar in LA.

****in' Jim!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-23 17:37 by AmpegVT22.

He may be right but - t me - even on release it sounded different. Even more so today, it -feels- like an LA recording.

Cheers.

Quote
AmpegVT22
He may be right but - t me - even on release it sounded different. Even more so today, it -feels- like an LA recording.

Cheers.

Well, I haven't really listened to the drums, but there were two or three main periods of Nellcote recordings, so it may have come from a later period where they moved the drums around.

Although, it probably just sounds different because there is only an acoustic guitar and an electric guitar overdub. It doesn't have the guitar layering like Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Tumbling Dice, Happy, and Ventilator Blues.

Does anyone know if the physical Japanese version is still available anywhere containing the bonus track ADTL???? I thought I’d ordered but it’s the standard 10-track version. Thanks!!!