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Turner68
When they started dishing out this dreck, it was pretty clear that it was the beginning of the end for the band.
The lyrics are the stuff of adolescent poetry and the arrangement is plodding.
worse than angie or memory motel (the ballads on IORR's sister albums)
i would pay money to never have to listen to it again.
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His MajestyQuote
Turner68
When they started dishing out this dreck, it was pretty clear that it was the beginning of the end for the band.
The lyrics are the stuff of adolescent poetry and the arrangement is plodding.
worse than angie or memory motel (the ballads on IORR's sister albums)
i would pay money to never have to listen to it again.
Yup.
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35loveQuote
His MajestyQuote
Turner68
When they started dishing out this dreck, it was pretty clear that it was the beginning of the end for the band.
The lyrics are the stuff of adolescent poetry and the arrangement is plodding.
worse than angie or memory motel (the ballads on IORR's sister albums)
i would pay money to never have to listen to it again.
Yup.
Ew eee. Cannot you appreciate the slide guitar, the 12 string guitar in the background, nothin’ ?
Play it for a lady friend over candlelight.
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zQuote
35loveQuote
His MajestyQuote
Turner68
When they started dishing out this dreck, it was pretty clear that it was the beginning of the end for the band.
The lyrics are the stuff of adolescent poetry and the arrangement is plodding.
worse than angie or memory motel (the ballads on IORR's sister albums)
i would pay money to never have to listen to it again.
Yup.
Ew eee. Cannot you appreciate the slide guitar, the 12 string guitar in the background, nothin’ ?
Play it for a lady friend over candlelight.
It's a breakup song, 35love.
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Rockman
….I've never said goodbye to any woman
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35love
Never got a break up vibe, say compared to ‘Let Me Go’ (Ha)
So he broke up with her at a movie house 42nd street, it was snowing,darn he thought, she still looks good tho (a treat)
but her cider-vinegar drink she was trying to pass off as elderberry wine and rotten gumbo (Louisiana recipe) were the last straw.
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Palace Revolution 2000
Actually that first Taylor solo album sounded a good bit like the Stones. That was really the thing that struck me - just how Stonesy some of the songs were.
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
Actually that first Taylor solo album sounded a good bit like the Stones. That was really the thing that struck me - just how Stonesy some of the songs were.
Let alone Taylor's live performance with Dylan. Simple as that. Masters of War - Wembly live- sounds like the Stones, albeit a different singer.
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DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
Actually that first Taylor solo album sounded a good bit like the Stones. That was really the thing that struck me - just how Stonesy some of the songs were.
Let alone Taylor's live performance with Dylan. Simple as that. Masters of War - Wembly live- sounds like the Stones, albeit a different singer.
Masters of War
I don't disagree here. For sure the young blues guitarist who joined the Stones in 1969 was not one-to-one player to the musician who departed from the band five years later. Not that any talented guy during that peculiar era would have evolved and changed in five years (in his early twenties), but also that of him being involved in making some of the best rock music ever done and wittnessing some of the strongest rock song writers at their peak working close by surely left some influence on him, being it intentional or not. It was not only him giving something novel and extra to the Stones sound but also that of The Stones giving something to him in return. I am rather sure that despite his own fluidy and melodic style he is famous for, Keith's presence, style and approach playing the guitar alone left a mark on him.
I especially agree that in his approach to Dylan's "Master of War" there is something 'Stonesy'.
- Doxa
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TheflyingDutchman
Re the Stones (Richards) and Taylor: It was a win - win situation, musically. What else can we ask for? They got the best out of each other. But please don't overestimate Richards as a musician. I like him a lot as a rhythm guitarist/ songwriter, but just like Taylor, he had to grow, he stole from the best and played with the best in his chosen field. Music means a lot more than songwriting to me if you get my point. I bet Keith would agree, even while he's more famous than Taylor. .
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DandelionPowderman
You need to be more than Jimi Hendrix to write a song like Paint It, Black - let alone the fantastic riff. Can't be overestimated - what am I reading here!
How did Taylor make Keith, the lead guitarist in the Stones, improve and top Paint It, Black?
That song has all eras within itself, actually: The 60s, the riffmaster, the melodies they sought so hard in the 80s and beyond.
One word: Perfection.
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DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchman
Re the Stones (Richards) and Taylor: It was a win - win situation, musically. What else can we ask for? They got the best out of each other. But please don't overestimate Richards as a musician. I like him a lot as a rhythm guitarist/ songwriter, but just like Taylor, he had to grow, he stole from the best and played with the best in his chosen field. Music means a lot more than songwriting to me if you get my point. I bet Keith would agree, even while he's more famous than Taylor. .
It was a win win situation for sure, but I don't think I overestimate Richards as a musician. I guess exactly those features in Keith you appreciate in him, leaning towards rhythm and riffs going along with his songwriting skills, both very idiosyncratic, I reckon making an impression for Taylor as well. Who wouldn't have been impressed by that? Surely Keith was no any Jimi Hendrix but he had his own assets and a strong intuition and determination in his doings. But yeah, surely Taylor's presence affect also Keith for leaning more towards the rhythm guitar department since having such a beautiful lead guitarist in the band. In that I agree that they "got the best out of each other", despite I know some Keith Richards fans feeling that due to Taylor Keith got more one-dimensional (not playing any longer so much leads, slide, etc.). In a way one could say that Taylor had an indirect role in making the 'riff master', making rhythm guitar to be played almost like a lead guitar and to be recognized as a key element of a rock and roll band, as we know Keith Richards to be. No matter how good Keith over-all is as a guitar player, I think the biggest impact he has done and what he will be remembered for in the history of rock guitar is that of making a rhythm guitar shine, which is a helluva achievement. The signature Open G belongs to that box.
- Doxa
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DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
Actually that first Taylor solo album sounded a good bit like the Stones. That was really the thing that struck me - just how Stonesy some of the songs were.
Let alone Taylor's live performance with Dylan. Simple as that. Masters of War - Wembly live- sounds like the Stones, albeit a different singer.
I don't disagree here. For sure the young blues guitarist who joined the Stones in 1969 was not one-to-one player to the musician who departed from the band five years later. Not that any talented guy during that peculiar era would have evolved and changed in five years (in his early twenties), but also that of him being involved in making some of the best rock music ever done and wittnessing some of the strongest rock song writers at their peak working close by surely left some influence on him, being it intentional or not. It was not only him giving something novel and extra to the Stones sound but also that of The Stones giving something to him in return. I am rather sure that despite his own fluidy and melodic style he is famous for, Keith's presence, style and approach playing the guitar alone left a mark on him.
I especially agree that in his approach to Dylan's "Master of War" there is something 'Stonesy'.
- Doxa
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OpenG
You could say that open tunings limited Keith's creativity during that period but the reason you try open tunings is that you get bored with standard tunings and you find out its easier to play once you find the chords you need and that what Keith did - He mastered taking songs and putting them in open tunings.
I do think MT kept Keith on his chops when they played live because of MT's counter melodies against Keith's playing. All Down The Line and Street Fighting Man, Rambler and others Keith had to keep up with what MT was playing.
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DandelionPowderman
You need to be more than Jimi Hendrix to write a song like Paint It, Black - let alone the fantastic riff. Can't be overestimated - what am I reading here!
How did Taylor make Keith, the lead guitarist in the Stones, improve and top Paint It, Black?
That song has all eras within itself, actually: The 60s, the riffmaster, the melodies they sought so hard in the 80s and beyond - without sounding dated. Oh, and it's their most popular song to this day.
One word: Perfection.
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His Majesty
I'd say Keith's peak as a guitarist was in the 1980's. By then, he could play anything he wanted to.
As noted above though, Keith's journey as a guitarist is very much related to his journey as a song writer. The whole set up in 60's meant Keith was responsible for a high % of the stones rhythm guitars, lead guitars, songs, chords and melodic ideas. That is bringing a lot to a band and it's music.
A defacto main musical director for atleast 1964 - 1969.
Brian's multi instrumentalist role and then becoming a phantom band member forced Keith to solidify a style and way of playing that was already hinted at much earlier. They were able to play as a 4 piece live and in the studio during this era for a reason. That being, Keith was the main engine and could cover all bases enough to make it work.
I think the balance shifted once Jagger found his feet on guitar enough to write songs on his own and further still when Taylor came on board, upped the playing levels, took on a lot of the lead playing and gave Jagger another source of inspiration for writing within the band seperate from Keith. Unlike before, I can't imagine them pulling off playing live as a 4 piece (without Taylor) during this era.
Maybe Keith can be over estimated as a guitarist, but not as a musician. He's created lots of musical magic from pretty basic ingredients.
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Redhotcarpet
Very interesting read, this thread. Thanks Doxa, palace, Dandie ,HM, open g et al. I just wanna add that I view Keith as a typical introvert guy who saught comfort in the guitar and really turned those Berry riffs into something better. Brian was the same with the blues and thats why they were the best. I think the songwriting was very much a forced method by ALO. ”If you cant come up with the hits, we’ll steal them”. The Beatles did just that when they got stuck. I feel fine was based on two songs (watch your step and what d i say). Lennons riff, he created it. The Last time is based on freedom highway and I feel fine (brians riff, he created something new no doubt)Satisfaction was a follow up and stolen from Nowhere to run ( again, a new riff created by Keith who when asked about it probably just mocked Paul for dreaming up Yesterday - which is based on Georgia on my mind). PIB and UMT were both ”stolen” but changed around and re-created by the whole group, Keith and Brian and Mick but also Bill and Charlie. JJF: Keith steals from Bill who based his riff on Satisfaction. Bill created something new but not out of thin air. SFTD - based on Dear mr fantasy, YCAGWYW, based on Feelin alright, Gimme Shelter was perhaps based on I dont know why (wonder) and Keith did a sponge job on Cooder. Just listen to the guitars on Let it bleed and especially Rambler. And yet it’s something new, studio creations if you like.
Ok Im done. For now.