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Naturalust

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Rokyfan
Two guys that cannot deal with each other except from a distance does not translate into memorable art.)

Maybe not in Mick and Keith's case but there are plenty of examples where just such friction creates a competitive environment which leads to some amazing music.

I also don't thinks it's fair or accurate to say they don't believe in their music. Mick is apparently still writing prolifically and Keith has a new record in the can. I think they just believe that new music isn't going to promote their business interests in any significant way and the business of the Stones has become so huge and profitable that it trumps their artistic considerations.

peace

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Naturalust

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LongBeachArena72

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Nikkei

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LongBeachArena72
But I do it because THEY have not evolved. We're stuck with no new music, a calcified approach to the catalog, and the sad fact that the original ONLY BAND THAT MATTERS (apologies to The Clash) hasn't really mattered in decades.

What would they need to do to matter once again in your opinion? Write better songs? Churn out more albums? Lead the charts?
I believe they choose to only matter where the money is these days. You can ask any concert promoter and he'll tell you they matter.

It's a good question, and I'm not sure what the answer is. Obviously, it must start with the music. One record in 18 years is ridiculous. But the position of music in society has changed. Music is not nearly as important in defining an era as it once was. No one has really bucked this trend in many years.

I guess my gut tells me that The Stones should have BELIEVED in themselves more. I'd be going to see them if they played amphitheaters instead of stadia and played music they believed in, rather than the globe-trotting victory lap they've been on forever. It's not hard to understand why they made the choices they did. I just wish they'd not have given a @#$%& about the size of their audience and tried to take their nasty post-apocalyptic blues to the next level, whatever that would have been.

I understand completely, but as you say there is no mold for what these guys are doing. The music business has been totally shaken up in the last 20 years with the business of touring emerging as the top income stream by a long shot. I get the feeling if new record sales were still the best business bet for rock bands, Mick and Co. would have found a way to continue making and selling new music. Blame Napster.

It's all about the business of the Stones. The touring and the marketing of the brand. It's a testament to how good those original records were that they are still able to successfully capitalize on them and continue on this decades old victory lap as you describe it. The Stones are masters of promising a little more and then basically selling us the same product they've been hawking for 40 years.

Yes, music is somewhat less important, with all the media entertainment and other stuff available and highly marketed to people it's easy to see how is has been diluted from the singularly awesome experience it was years ago. Combine that with the way it is delivered these days, single songs, streamed for pennies (or free) and any individual artist only gets a short time to make a impact. Even if they have a new record, it's unlikely anybody's going to hear the whole thing in the running order it was created.

In the end the Stones have grown and evolved in a business sense, but not a musical sense. It shows us that they are businessmen first, and musicians and musical innovators second. It's pretty clear that's the path they have chosen and all their energy goes into putting on a great show, selling lots of tickets and trying to convince us that the 40 year old tunes are as fresh as the day they were hatched. The nostalgia is not just for the Stones music but for the importance and impact all music once had, imo.

I really don't think it has much to do with their believing in themselves as much as the knowledge and wisdom of what it takes to succeed in the music business in the 21st century. No one can deny their success. That's their goal, not fresh new nasty post-apocalyptic blues.

peace

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Rokyfan

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Naturalust

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Rokyfan
Two guys that cannot deal with each other except from a distance does not translate into memorable art.)

Maybe not in Mick and Keith's case but there are plenty of examples where just such friction creates a competitive environment which leads to some amazing music.

I also don't thinks it's fair or accurate to say they don't believe in their music. Mick is apparently still writing prolifically and Keith has a new record in the can. I think they just believe that new music isn't going to promote their business interests in any significant way and the business of the Stones has become so huge and profitable that it trumps their artistic considerations.

peace

I'm sure they each believe in the music they make, but it is different. Mick does his thing and believes in it, Keith his. I meant that they didn't believe in their work together from the "modern" age post-89. They put out a bunch of one off albums, some of which had some pretty good stuff, but never believed in it, never developed it, and as a result the setlist never changed. It's like they had to get together to do a new album in order to tour, each time. instead of the music growing out of reality, as their masterpieces did.

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tonyc
That picture you have of the crowd at sunset, GS1978, on the far left of the frame, the woman and man looking at you and then continue down beyond the blue object to the two knees that would be me.

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GS1978

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tonyc
That picture you have of the crowd at sunset, GS1978, on the far left of the frame, the woman and man looking at you and then continue down beyond the blue object to the two knees that would be me.

Wow - Were you wearing a blue shirt with a red baseball hat with a black bill?
I cropped that shot and still have original version which shows more of you.
If you want a copy, email me at [email protected].

Did you have Lucky Dip too?