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Well, this is exactly what I was curious about!
How was this particular mix done? The guitar parts in particular. The bass line is a quite obvious loop of the original, most of the guitars too. But the other parts?
Keith and Ronnie were tight and flashy during those sessions, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually them.
Let's put it this way. I know it's stupid. I like this version a lot, and that should be enough. But I would like it even more if I knew that all they remixed original Keith and Ronnie guitar parts.
C
And I'm sure Steven Adler got the credit and royalties he deserved..
I can imagine those would have been fairly easy to rip from the breakdown on that tune.
peace
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-01 22:16 by DoomandGloom.
Earlier same year, I believe.
I checked - Wikipedia says Appetite was recorded March April 87, while the Shuffle was released in 86
C
Having the masters and owning the samples taken from them were certainly shown to be different things when those samples started selling records. lol I actually have copies of multitracks from some of the best selling rock records of all time but all they will ever be is entertainment when I cue them up and play them for friends. As a studio geek you know the score.
peace
I wonder if Tears for Fears ever got paid for all those people using the drum samples? I know by the 90's people were pretty hip to copyright stuff regarding sampling.
Very cool that you got to play with the Crash Landing multitracks! That was an Alan Douglas project, no?
You'd probably really enjoy the stuff up on You Tube of Eddie Kramer at Electric Lady Studios going over some of Jimi's recording techniques while playing the multitracks and telling stories. Sometimes you just want him to shut up and keep the stuff solo'ed so we can hear the magical guitar playing but it is highly entertaining none-the-less. One of my favorites below:
(sorry to go OT here but this shit is worth a gander for those people interested in mixing)
Chas Chandler: "If a band can't play it in two or three takes they shouldn't be in the studio. They're not good enough"...obviously he wasn't referring to The Rolling Stones who used the studio a bit differently.
peace
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-02 06:22 by Naturalust.
The NY mix was reissued on Rarities (edited) and Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
The London Mix was reissued on Collector's Edition (1990 compilation) and on Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
Thanks - I was hoping there was somewhere to get the complete NY mix on cd besides that singles box set, guess not. I have the Collector's cd for London mix.
The complete 'Harlem Shuffle NY Mix' was some years ago also to find on CD 2 of the MECCA-Label 6-fold Bootleg-CD-Series: [www.iorr.org] .
The NY Mix is also available for single purchase in the iTunes Store: [itunes.apple.com] .
Without wanting to kick in open doors, nor letting you spilling too much beans (as if than would be at all possible...
): I'm not really familiar with that rumour/ fact.
(anybody) Care to give some examples?
Gotta admit: I'm curious.
Now we got three different sound mixes of Let It Rock, released officially. Who'd have thought that a few years ago
Have look at the RS Discography on [en.wikipedia.org] , you'll find there at each Album a section 'Personnel'. There're additional guitarists (and other guest musicians) listed ....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-02 17:50 by Irix.
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Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: May 31, 2015 22:48
Just as a matter of curiosity, how was this made?
Lots of the instrumental parts sound familiar, but where does all that funky stuff starting at around 3 minutes come from? Can't remember it on the out takes
C
Lots of the instrumental parts sound familiar, but where does all that funky stuff starting at around 3 minutes come from? Can't remember it on the out takes
C
Re: Harlem Shuffle NY Mix
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: May 31, 2015 23:10
Dunno, but that's what I've found so far:
Harlem Shuffle - NY Mix by Steve Thompson & Michael Barbiero at Media Sound, NYC: [www.discogs.com] .
Wikipedia: Steve Thompson , Michael Barbiero .
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-31 23:45 by Irix.
Harlem Shuffle - NY Mix by Steve Thompson & Michael Barbiero at Media Sound, NYC: [www.discogs.com] .
Wikipedia: Steve Thompson , Michael Barbiero .
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-31 23:45 by Irix.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
kowalski
()
Date: June 1, 2015 01:17
I think the idea behind these dance remixes was to mix the Stones sound with a more contemporary sound, hence the addition of other musical backgrounds. This will even go further in the late 90's with mostly only Jagger's voice remaining from the original recordings (see Out Of Control Fluke's remix).
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 1, 2015 01:49
Not exactly sure what the question is but in my experience the best ones go down like this:
Generally a copy of the multitracks are provided to an engineer and producer and they bring them up on the console and start dissecting it, both subtracting parts and adding additional tracks. Sometimes the new tracks are added by live musicians and sometimes it's all machines studio gear and looping of stuff they find on the original tracks providing the extra stuff. Often other drum sounds are triggered from the original drum hits and other percussion is added as needed.
The technology exists now that can take apart stereo mixes to their individual instruments and vocal without the need for the original multitracks but it's not perfect and requires more mixing tricks to truly replace parts.
Listening to that mix and knowing it was done in 1986 I'm pretty sure they had the multitracks and were able to mainly just use the parts they wanted, looping characteristic parts. It sounds like they may have had other musicians adding a lot of the funky keyboard parts, adding synth stuff, super effected guitars and even additional vocals. It's possible lots of the parts were on the original multi tracks and just weren't used on the original, but no doubt they were given special treatment for the remix. (different EQ, heavy reverb, etc.)
In theory a true remix probably shouldn't include any new parts that weren't originally played by the band, even if they get a completely different sonic treatment, but of course their are no rules here...except that Mick likes the results and is willing to let it be released with the Stones name on it.
peace
Generally a copy of the multitracks are provided to an engineer and producer and they bring them up on the console and start dissecting it, both subtracting parts and adding additional tracks. Sometimes the new tracks are added by live musicians and sometimes it's all machines studio gear and looping of stuff they find on the original tracks providing the extra stuff. Often other drum sounds are triggered from the original drum hits and other percussion is added as needed.
The technology exists now that can take apart stereo mixes to their individual instruments and vocal without the need for the original multitracks but it's not perfect and requires more mixing tricks to truly replace parts.
Listening to that mix and knowing it was done in 1986 I'm pretty sure they had the multitracks and were able to mainly just use the parts they wanted, looping characteristic parts. It sounds like they may have had other musicians adding a lot of the funky keyboard parts, adding synth stuff, super effected guitars and even additional vocals. It's possible lots of the parts were on the original multi tracks and just weren't used on the original, but no doubt they were given special treatment for the remix. (different EQ, heavy reverb, etc.)
In theory a true remix probably shouldn't include any new parts that weren't originally played by the band, even if they get a completely different sonic treatment, but of course their are no rules here...except that Mick likes the results and is willing to let it be released with the Stones name on it.
peace
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: June 1, 2015 03:05
One of our regulars was a tape operator on this session I believe.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: June 1, 2015 03:39
The bass just kills me on that remix. It's maybe Bill's most rubbery line of all time.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: June 1, 2015 21:08
Quote
Naturalust
Not exactly sure what the question is but in my experience the best ones go down like this:
Generally a copy of the multitracks are provided to an engineer and producer and they bring them up on the console and start dissecting it, both subtracting parts and adding additional tracks. Sometimes the new tracks are added by live musicians and sometimes it's all machines studio gear and looping of stuff they find on the original tracks providing the extra stuff. Often other drum sounds are triggered from the original drum hits and other percussion is added as needed.
The technology exists now that can take apart stereo mixes to their individual instruments and vocal without the need for the original multitracks but it's not perfect and requires more mixing tricks to truly replace parts.
Listening to that mix and knowing it was done in 1986 I'm pretty sure they had the multitracks and were able to mainly just use the parts they wanted, looping characteristic parts. It sounds like they may have had other musicians adding a lot of the funky keyboard parts, adding synth stuff, super effected guitars and even additional vocals. It's possible lots of the parts were on the original multi tracks and just weren't used on the original, but no doubt they were given special treatment for the remix. (different EQ, heavy reverb, etc.)
In theory a true remix probably shouldn't include any new parts that weren't originally played by the band, even if they get a completely different sonic treatment, but of course their are no rules here...except that Mick likes the results and is willing to let it be released with the Stones name on it.
peace
Well, this is exactly what I was curious about!
How was this particular mix done? The guitar parts in particular. The bass line is a quite obvious loop of the original, most of the guitars too. But the other parts?
Keith and Ronnie were tight and flashy during those sessions, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually them.
Let's put it this way. I know it's stupid. I like this version a lot, and that should be enough. But I would like it even more if I knew that all they remixed original Keith and Ronnie guitar parts.
C
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 1, 2015 21:30
Ask DoomandGloom. Didn't he work on that session?
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: June 1, 2015 21:58
Yes I was there for every second of this. Arno Heckt from the Uptown Horns was the only overdub I recall. The guitars are Keith and Ron, we'd drop the vocals out and feature them as dance sections. Keith may have added a part that is not on the record but they didn't sneak in guitarists until Steel Wheels. Of course Page appears on Dirty Work but is credited. Usually we'd hire a percussionist for a remix but I don't think that happened on HS, if it did happen it would be the late great Jimmy Malen from Roxy Music. The producers knew I loved the Stones and I kept demanding more guitars for the final mix. This was a fun date, one cool note, the snare and kick sample we had loaded at the time came from Appetite For Destruction, Paradise City I think.. This was not my first Stones date, as I wrote before Mick is a terrific person to spend time with, I knew every rock star at the time and The RS were the most down to earth which was a surprise considering they're the top.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-01 22:02 by DoomandGloom.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-01 22:02 by DoomandGloom.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 1, 2015 22:09
Quote
DoomandGloom
one cool note, the snare and kick sample we had loaded at the time came from Appetite For Destruction, Paradise City I think..
And I'm sure Steven Adler got the credit and royalties he deserved..
I can imagine those would have been fairly easy to rip from the breakdown on that tune.peace
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 1, 2015 22:12
Quote
DoomandGloom
Yes I was there for every second of this. Arno Heckt from the Uptown Horns was the only overdub I recall. The guitars are Keith and Ron, we'd drop the vocals out and feature them as dance sections. Keith may have added a part that is not on the record but they didn't sneak in guitarists until Steel Wheels. Of course Page appears on Dirty Work but is credited. Usually we'd hire a percussionist for a remix but I don't think that happened on HS, if it did happen it would be the late great Jimmy Malen from Roxy Music. The producers knew I loved the Stones and I kept demanding more guitars for the final mix. This was a fun date, one cool note, the snare and kick sample we had loaded at the time came from Appetite For Destruction, Paradise City I think.. This was not my first Stones date, as I wrote before Mick is a terrific person to spend time with, I knew every rock star at the time and The RS were the most down to earth which was a surprise considering they're the top.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: June 1, 2015 22:14
we had the masters, these became popular samples along with Tears For Fears, Shout and Patty Smith, Because The Night. Still got them on DAT.Quote
NaturalustQuote
DoomandGloom
one cool note, the snare and kick sample we had loaded at the time came from Appetite For Destruction, Paradise City I think..
And I'm sure Steven Adler got the credit and royalties he deserved..
T
peace
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-01 22:16 by DoomandGloom.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: June 2, 2015 00:33
Doomandgloom:
Thank you. Really some interesting stuff from the guitars in that ny mix, and nice to know it actually was k&r.
I didn't get the appetite thing, thou. Wasn't the guns n roses record recorded some 2/3 years later?
C
Thank you. Really some interesting stuff from the guitars in that ny mix, and nice to know it actually was k&r.
I didn't get the appetite thing, thou. Wasn't the guns n roses record recorded some 2/3 years later?
C
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 2, 2015 00:34
Quote
liddas
Doomandgloom:
Thank you. Really some interesting stuff from the guitars in that ny mix, and nice to know it actually was k&r.
I didn't get the appetite thing, thou. Wasn't the guns n roses record recorded some 2/3 years later?
C
Earlier same year, I believe.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: June 2, 2015 00:44
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
Doomandgloom:
Thank you. Really some interesting stuff from the guitars in that ny mix, and nice to know it actually was k&r.
I didn't get the appetite thing, thou. Wasn't the guns n roses record recorded some 2/3 years later?
C
Earlier same year, I believe.
I checked - Wikipedia says Appetite was recorded March April 87, while the Shuffle was released in 86
C
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: June 2, 2015 01:39
not correct from my memory. Did them both the same month I thought. Very possible this remix was well after the DW album or I am thinking of another remix. She's the Boss', Dancing in The Streets? Guns was mixed in the early springtime. Sorry if I offer imperfect facts but this was long ago and I probably made 500 records. This is why I can't have a book, a novel perhaps!Quote
liddasQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
Doomandgloom:
Thank you. Really some interesting stuff from the guitars in that ny mix, and nice to know it actually was k&r.
I didn't get the appetite thing, thou. Wasn't the guns n roses record recorded some 2/3 years later?
C
Earlier same year, I believe.
I checked - Wikipedia says Appetite was recorded March April 87, while the Shuffle was released in 86
C
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
hypnohighball
()
Date: June 2, 2015 04:34
I see the version of the New York Mix is edited by about a minute on the "Rarities" cd. Also, has the "London Mix" turned up on cd anywhere besides the Singles Boxed Set?
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 2, 2015 04:45
Quote
DoomandGloomwe had the masters, these became popular samples along with Tears For Fears, Shout and Patty Smith, Because The Night. Still got them on DAT.Quote
NaturalustQuote
DoomandGloom
one cool note, the snare and kick sample we had loaded at the time came from Appetite For Destruction, Paradise City I think..
And I'm sure Steven Adler got the credit and royalties he deserved..
T
peace
Having the masters and owning the samples taken from them were certainly shown to be different things when those samples started selling records. lol I actually have copies of multitracks from some of the best selling rock records of all time but all they will ever be is entertainment when I cue them up and play them for friends. As a studio geek you know the score.
peace
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: June 2, 2015 05:01
this was way before anyone thought about right and wrong regarding sampling. Snares,drum rooms were passed around and there was much experimentation. I had access to Jimi's Crash Landing when I started and learned to mix with those masters. A real luxury.Quote
NaturalustQuote
DoomandGloomwe had the masters, these became popular samples along with Tears For Fears, Shout and Patty Smith, Because The Night. Still got them on DAT.Quote
NaturalustQuote
DoomandGloom
one cool note, the snare and kick sample we had loaded at the time came from Appetite For Destruction, Paradise City I think..
And I'm sure Steven Adler got the credit and royalties he deserved..
T
peace
Having the masters and owning the samples taken from them were certainly shown to be different things when those samples started selling records. lol I actually have copies of multitracks from some of the best selling rock records of all time but all they will ever be is entertainment when I cue them up and play them for friends. As a studio geek you know the score.
peace
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 2, 2015 05:36
Quote
DoomandGloom
this was way before anyone thought about right and wrong regarding sampling. Snares,drum rooms were passed around and there was much experimentation. I had access to Jimi's Crash Landing when I started and learned to mix with those masters. A real luxury.
I wonder if Tears for Fears ever got paid for all those people using the drum samples? I know by the 90's people were pretty hip to copyright stuff regarding sampling.
Very cool that you got to play with the Crash Landing multitracks! That was an Alan Douglas project, no?
You'd probably really enjoy the stuff up on You Tube of Eddie Kramer at Electric Lady Studios going over some of Jimi's recording techniques while playing the multitracks and telling stories. Sometimes you just want him to shut up and keep the stuff solo'ed so we can hear the magical guitar playing but it is highly entertaining none-the-less. One of my favorites below:
(sorry to go OT here but this shit is worth a gander for those people interested in mixing)
Chas Chandler: "If a band can't play it in two or three takes they shouldn't be in the studio. They're not good enough"...obviously he wasn't referring to The Rolling Stones who used the studio a bit differently.
peace
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-02 06:22 by Naturalust.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
kowalski
()
Date: June 2, 2015 05:58
Quote
hypnohighball
I see the version of the New York Mix is edited by about a minute on the "Rarities" cd. Also, has the "London Mix" turned up on cd anywhere besides the Singles Boxed Set?
The NY mix was reissued on Rarities (edited) and Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
The London Mix was reissued on Collector's Edition (1990 compilation) and on Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
hypnohighball
()
Date: June 2, 2015 06:34
Quote
kowalskiQuote
hypnohighball
I see the version of the New York Mix is edited by about a minute on the "Rarities" cd. Also, has the "London Mix" turned up on cd anywhere besides the Singles Boxed Set?
The NY mix was reissued on Rarities (edited) and Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
The London Mix was reissued on Collector's Edition (1990 compilation) and on Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
Thanks - I was hoping there was somewhere to get the complete NY mix on cd besides that singles box set, guess not. I have the Collector's cd for London mix.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: June 2, 2015 08:10
I will look for my session cassettes, there would be plenty of alternate mixes, including an ultraheavy guitar one. May take a few weeks to turn up.Quote
hypnohighballQuote
kowalskiQuote
hypnohighball
I see the version of the New York Mix is edited by about a minute on the "Rarities" cd. Also, has the "London Mix" turned up on cd anywhere besides the Singles Boxed Set?
The NY mix was reissued on Rarities (edited) and Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
The London Mix was reissued on Collector's Edition (1990 compilation) and on Singles 1971-2006 (complete).
Thanks - I was hoping there was somewhere to get the complete NY mix on cd besides that singles box set, guess not. I have the Collector's cd for London mix.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: June 2, 2015 13:00
Quote
hypnohighball
Thanks - I was hoping there was somewhere to get the complete NY mix on cd besides that singles box set, guess not. I have the Collector's cd for London mix.
The complete 'Harlem Shuffle NY Mix' was some years ago also to find on CD 2 of the MECCA-Label 6-fold Bootleg-CD-Series: [www.iorr.org] .
The NY Mix is also available for single purchase in the iTunes Store: [itunes.apple.com] .
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
ohotos
()
Date: June 2, 2015 13:43
After reading this post I went ahead and listened to some of the remixes out of the Singles Box Set on Spotify, I had never listened to them before and maybe I shouldn't have. 99% of them are really really bad!
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: June 2, 2015 14:07
With all respect for DoomandGloom's work on 'Harlem Shuffle', most of these remixes are beyond horrible. 'Harlem Shuffle (NY Mix)" happens to be one of the remixes I actually like, so there. ;-)
Anyway, of actual 'Alternate' mixes of songs that are not extended by repeating and looping, there isn't many mixes were it's just the bands original recording.
From 1971 onwards, the following songs is the original untouched song mixed differently:
"Brown Sugar" (7" Single Mix)
"Bitch" (7" Single Mix)
"Let It Rock" (Live) (7" Single Mix)
"Sway" (7" Single Mix)
"Tumbling Dice" (7" Single Mix)
"All Down the Line" (7" Single Mix)
"Terrifying" (7" Remix)
"Love Is Strong" (Bob Clearmountain Remix)
"Out of Tears" (Bob Clearmountain Remix Edit)
"I Go Wild" (Scott Litt Remix)
"Don't Stop" (New Rock Mix)
"Doom & Gloom" (Jeff Bashker Mix)
"One More Shot" (Jeff Bashker Mix)
-Note, that this is only officially released mixes. Promo-mixes for radio etc., would expand the list.
Anyway, of actual 'Alternate' mixes of songs that are not extended by repeating and looping, there isn't many mixes were it's just the bands original recording.
From 1971 onwards, the following songs is the original untouched song mixed differently:
"Brown Sugar" (7" Single Mix)
"Bitch" (7" Single Mix)
"Let It Rock" (Live) (7" Single Mix)
"Sway" (7" Single Mix)
"Tumbling Dice" (7" Single Mix)
"All Down the Line" (7" Single Mix)
"Terrifying" (7" Remix)
"Love Is Strong" (Bob Clearmountain Remix)
"Out of Tears" (Bob Clearmountain Remix Edit)
"I Go Wild" (Scott Litt Remix)
"Don't Stop" (New Rock Mix)
"Doom & Gloom" (Jeff Bashker Mix)
"One More Shot" (Jeff Bashker Mix)
-Note, that this is only officially released mixes. Promo-mixes for radio etc., would expand the list.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
RoughJusticeOnYa
()
Date: June 2, 2015 14:19
Quote
DoomandGloom
they didn't sneak in guitarists until Steel Wheels.
Without wanting to kick in open doors, nor letting you spilling too much beans (as if than would be at all possible...
): I'm not really familiar with that rumour/ fact.(anybody) Care to give some examples?
Gotta admit: I'm curious.
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 2, 2015 14:28
Quote
Blueranger
With all respect for DoomandGloom's work on 'Harlem Shuffle', most of these remixes are beyond horrible. 'Harlem Shuffle (NY Mix)" happens to be one of the remixes I actually like, so there. ;-)
Anyway, of actual 'Alternate' mixes of songs that are not extended by repeating and looping, there isn't many mixes were it's just the bands original recording.
From 1971 onwards, the following songs is the original untouched song mixed differently:
"Brown Sugar" (7" Single Mix)
"Bitch" (7" Single Mix)
"Let It Rock" (Live) (7" Single Mix)
"Sway" (7" Single Mix)
"Tumbling Dice" (7" Single Mix)
"All Down the Line" (7" Single Mix)
"Terrifying" (7" Remix)
"Love Is Strong" (Bob Clearmountain Remix)
"Out of Tears" (Bob Clearmountain Remix Edit)
"I Go Wild" (Scott Litt Remix)
"Don't Stop" (New Rock Mix)
"Doom & Gloom" (Jeff Bashker Mix)
"One More Shot" (Jeff Bashker Mix)
-Note, that this is only officially released mixes. Promo-mixes for radio etc., would expand the list.
Now we got three different sound mixes of Let It Rock, released officially. Who'd have thought that a few years ago
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: June 2, 2015 14:38
Yeah. Who would have thought? 
Re: Harlem Shuffle ny mix
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: June 2, 2015 16:45
Quote
RoughJusticeOnYaQuote
DoomandGloom
they didn't sneak in guitarists until Steel Wheels.
Without wanting to kick in open doors, nor letting you spilling too much beans (as if than would be at all possible...
Have look at the RS Discography on [en.wikipedia.org] , you'll find there at each Album a section 'Personnel'. There're additional guitarists (and other guest musicians) listed ....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-02 17:50 by Irix.
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