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treaclefingers

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Redhotcarpet

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treaclefingers

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GasLightStreet
Gimme Shelter vs Brown Sugar - Brown Sugar
Love In Vain vs Sway - Sway
Country Honk vs Wild Horses - Wild Horses
Live With Me vs Can't You Hear Me Knocking - Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Let It Bleed vs You Gotta Move - Let It Bleed
Midnight Rambler vs Bitch - Bitch
You Got The Silver vs I Got The Blues - You Got The Silver
Monkey Man vs Sister Morphine - Monkey Man
YCAGWYW vs Moonlight Mile - Moonlight Mile

SF 6 LIB 3

6 to 3?!?!

My heart is thumpin' louder than a big bass drum!

Don't think Bitch would ever trump Rambler though...as good as Brown Sugar is, how can it possibly be better than GS?

Just think about it in concert...

In concert GS sucks since 1975.

OK, stop the insanity!

NO Im sane. Im serious. GS doesn't work live except for 1972 and 1975. 1975 thanks to Billy and Keiths effect box. 1972 thanks to the band and Nicky. 1972 is the only live version worth mentioning.

if you go by what they play in concert - i.e. the number of songs off of each album - let it bleed clearly wins. there are nights where they'll play nearly half the album (gimme shelter, love in vain, live with me, you can't always get what you want, midnight rambler)

This is indeed a hard one treacle! Let it Bleed and Sticky Fingers are two of my favorite. And I so love the atmosphere of Let it Bleed and that it is mostly Keith playing guitar. And he is on fire! But then there is Sticky Fingers with Taylor firing on full power. And playing on all the songs. And their epic CYHMK! Which is one of my favorite Stones songs.
But also YCAGWYW is another epic classic Stones song with such amazing production and the brilliantly sublime use of the choir to emphasize the decadence and decay of the 60s. Let it Bleed is a Storm album, while Sticky Fingers is a narcotic album.

My slight nod would go to Sticky Fingers by a hair! And admittedly it could change depending on the mood of the day and the need of the day.

Like 2 rooms in the same heart. Difficult to pick, LIB I'd say.

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Redhotcarpet

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treaclefingers

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Redhotcarpet

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treaclefingers

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GasLightStreet
Gimme Shelter vs Brown Sugar - Brown Sugar
Love In Vain vs Sway - Sway
Country Honk vs Wild Horses - Wild Horses
Live With Me vs Can't You Hear Me Knocking - Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Let It Bleed vs You Gotta Move - Let It Bleed
Midnight Rambler vs Bitch - Bitch
You Got The Silver vs I Got The Blues - You Got The Silver
Monkey Man vs Sister Morphine - Monkey Man
YCAGWYW vs Moonlight Mile - Moonlight Mile

SF 6 LIB 3

6 to 3?!?!

My heart is thumpin' louder than a big bass drum!

Don't think Bitch would ever trump Rambler though...as good as Brown Sugar is, how can it possibly be better than GS?

Just think about it in concert...

In concert GS sucks since 1975.

OK, stop the insanity!

NO Im sane. Im serious. GS doesn't work live except for 1972 and 1975. 1975 thanks to Billy and Keiths effect box. 1972 thanks to the band and Nicky. 1972 is the only live version worth mentioning.

Yep, you're insane Many 1973 versions beat many 1972 versions. Let's do a track by track boot comparison!

Sticky Fingers is the best album of all Stones albums. Sorry for Exile.

A song by song comparison is of course fun but says nothing at all.

Important point: the studio versions are not the same as the song itself. This may sound cryptical, but it isn't, becauce the studio version is just another version. It's no composition, like in classical music.

Some songs suck in studio version but are great live: those songs are in fact great.

LIB has just or almost as great songs as SF, but the performance of most songs do lack something, which to me is the third man. Songs like MR, LIV, YCAGWYW are pretty boring on LIB and one dimensional but are fantastic live during the 69 -73 tours.

The same goes for Brown Sugar on SF: after some listenings the song doesn't surprise anymore and becomes boring. Live it's always different and during each listening (even of the same performance) one can discover something new or can be carried away by excitement. The proof of a good song is in the end in the live playing (by the band in its welknown best live form - of course during 69 -73).

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kleermaker
Sticky Fingers is the best album of all Stones albums. Sorry for Exile.

A song by song comparison is of course fun but says nothing at all.

Important point: the studio versions are not the same as the song itself. This may sound cryptical, but it isn't, becauce the studio version is just another version. It's no composition, like in classical music.

Some songs suck in studio version but are great live: those songs are in fact great.

LIB has just or almost as great songs as SF, but the performance of most songs do lack something, which to me is the third man. Songs like MR, LIV, YCAGWYW are pretty boring on LIB and one dimensional but are fantastic live during the 69 -73 tours.

The same goes for Brown Sugar on SF: after some listenings the song doesn't surprise anymore and becomes boring. Live it's always different and during each listening (even of the same performance) one can discover something new or can be carried away by excitement. The proof of a good song is in the end in the live playing (by the band in its welknown best live form - of course during 69 -73).

what you're saying is not kleer. if Sticky is better, why is LIB winning?!

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treaclefingers

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kleermaker
Sticky Fingers is the best album of all Stones albums. Sorry for Exile.

A song by song comparison is of course fun but says nothing at all.

Important point: the studio versions are not the same as the song itself. This may sound cryptical, but it isn't, becauce the studio version is just another version. It's no composition, like in classical music.

Some songs suck in studio version but are great live: those songs are in fact great.

LIB has just or almost as great songs as SF, but the performance of most songs do lack something, which to me is the third man. Songs like MR, LIV, YCAGWYW are pretty boring on LIB and one dimensional but are fantastic live during the 69 -73 tours.

The same goes for Brown Sugar on SF: after some listenings the song doesn't surprise anymore and becomes boring. Live it's always different and during each listening (even of the same performance) one can discover something new or can be carried away by excitement. The proof of a good song is in the end in the live playing (by the band in its welknown best live form - of course during 69 -73).

what you're saying is not kleer. if Sticky is better, why is LIB winning?!

Sometimes Stones science is mind boggling.

Boggling.........your right "Ik kan er geen touw aan vast knopen".............

__________________________

Gimme Shelter vs Brown Sugar - Brown Sugar
Love In Vain vs Sway - Sway
Country Honk vs Wild Horses - Wild Horses
Live With Me vs Can't You Hear Me Knocking - Live With Me
Let It Bleed vs You Gotta Move - Let It Bleed
Midnight Rambler vs Bitch - Bitch
You Got The Silver vs I Got The Blues - You Got The Silver
Monkey Man vs Sister Morphine - Monkey Man
YCAGWYW vs Moonlight Mile - Moonlight Mile

MEZ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-12 01:55 by The Mez.

Sf is a harder lib but not better than lib

I love "country honk".

As good as LIB is, this is no contest. Sticky Fingers is a masterpiece. LIB has great songs but suffers from too clean production, imo. Evidence is how much better the live versions of Rambler, Love In Vain, and Live With Me are compared to the studio track.

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71Tele
As good as LIB is, this is no contest. Sticky Fingers is a masterpiece. LIB has great songs but suffers from too clean production, imo. Evidence is how much better the live versions of Rambler, Love In Vain, and Live With Me are compared to the studio track.

Not better, just different.

Nothing is "better", at least emotionally, than the studio take of Love In Vain. That slide guitar and Mick's singing still send chills down my spine.

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele
As good as LIB is, this is no contest. Sticky Fingers is a masterpiece. LIB has great songs but suffers from too clean production, imo. Evidence is how much better the live versions of Rambler, Love In Vain, and Live With Me are compared to the studio track.

Not better, just different.

Nothing is "better", at least emotionally, than the studio take of Love In Vain. That slide guitar and Mick's singing still send chills down my spine.

live with me on LIB is also very excellent. rambler i concede is best live.

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Bsebastian

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele
As good as LIB is, this is no contest. Sticky Fingers is a masterpiece. LIB has great songs but suffers from too clean production, imo. Evidence is how much better the live versions of Rambler, Love In Vain, and Live With Me are compared to the studio track.

Not better, just different.

Nothing is "better", at least emotionally, than the studio take of Love In Vain. That slide guitar and Mick's singing still send chills down my spine.

live with me on LIB is also very excellent. rambler i concede is best live.

I agree. They never captured the energy of the LWM studio version.

Rambler has a creepiness on LIB that is interesting in its own way, but I like the thrashing live versions even more.

Let's rumble:

Gimme Shelter vs Brown Sugar - No Contest - Gimme Shelter
Love In Vain vs Sway - Sway
Country Honk vs Wild Horses - Wild Horses
Live With Me vs Can't You Hear Me Knocking - Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Let It Bleed vs You Gotta Move - Let It Bleed
Midnight Rambler vs Bitch - Bitch
You Got The Silver vs I Got The Blues - You Got The Silver
Monkey Man vs Sister Morphine - Sister Morphine
YCAGWYW vs Moonlight Mile - Moonlight Mile

LIB = 3
and the winner by TKO

Sticky Fingers = 6

Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

Lol.

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

I thought that was what Lisa was doing.

I better revisit the live versions...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-12 11:50 by DandelionPowderman.

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

Sure, the most perfect rock studio recording ever made, along with Like A Rolling Stone.

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

Actually, the "whoo" versus the "awayeayeayea", they are both okay. But with GS the guitar live doesn't sound as crystal cutting sharp as it should. It lacks that pinching precision which that song needs (just like Monkey Man).

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matxil

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

Actually, the "whoo" versus the "awayeayeayea", they are both okay. But with GS the guitar live doesn't sound as crystal cutting sharp as it should. It lacks that pinching precision which that song needs (just like Monkey Man).

also the wooden stick (what do you call the percussion in the intro anyway?) is better in the studio. they should make chuck play it live.

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Bsebastian

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matxil

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

Actually, the "whoo" versus the "awayeayeayea", they are both okay. But with GS the guitar live doesn't sound as crystal cutting sharp as it should. It lacks that pinching precision which that song needs (just like Monkey Man).

also the wooden stick (what do you call the percussion in the intro anyway?) is better in the studio. they should make chuck play it live.

You don't like how Bernard is playing the frog?

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Bsebastian

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matxil

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

Actually, the "whoo" versus the "awayeayeayea", they are both okay. But with GS the guitar live doesn't sound as crystal cutting sharp as it should. It lacks that pinching precision which that song needs (just like Monkey Man).

also the wooden stick (what do you call the percussion in the intro anyway?) is better in the studio. they should make chuck play it live.

I think it's called a "güiro" ( [en.wikipedia.org] )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-12 12:54 by matxil.

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matxil

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Bsebastian

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matxil

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Nikkei

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil
Impossible to compare. Together with Exile they are the top 3 albums not only of theirs but of all rock music.
About the sub-debate of Gimme Shelter versus Brown Sugar: Gimme Shelter is better on the album, but Brown Sugar works better live.

How?

"Whoo" after the chorus. Doesn't work as well on GS.

Actually, the "whoo" versus the "awayeayeayea", they are both okay. But with GS the guitar live doesn't sound as crystal cutting sharp as it should. It lacks that pinching precision which that song needs (just like Monkey Man).

also the wooden stick (what do you call the percussion in the intro anyway?) is better in the studio. they should make chuck play it live.

I think it's called a "güiro" ( [en.wikipedia.org] )

wow, that's pretty cool. thanks for the link.

but i do want to take back what i said. trying to make the live songs sound more like they do in the studio is what got us in this 26 year-long mess.

Cannot be done! The only one I would delete is Sister Morphone, never liked it.

Two huge albums. Impossible to compare, for many reasons.

Song by song doesn't work because Bleed has only 9.

Deep down - to me at least - Bleed is way better. Because it came first, because of its importance in the history of the Stones, because it has a sense of adventure, because of its naivety etc.

Yet I couldn't find a rational way of representing the supremacy of Bleed.

If I compared sides, it would be a tie: Fingers side A wins, equalizer by Bleed side B.

Warhorse/ratio - Bleed wins: 3 warhorses (shelter, rambler, and YCAGWYW) out of 9 is an incredible achievement. The immense SF produced only 1 (BS). One and 1/2 if you consider Wild Horses.

But if the warhorse/ratio mattered, how should we judge Exile?

So I went back to the song by song comparison, but before doing so I reorganized bleed following fingers' set (could have been the other way round, but who cares), and I did so with regard to the "type" of song.

To fill up the missing song I chose I don't know why, because I needed a slow number, and because it was unfair to include Honky Tonk single in the fight.


1) Main uptempo rocker: Monkey Man vs. Brown Sugar - Sugar wins (unanimous jury) - 0-1
2) Great mid tempo song: Shelter vs. Sway - Shelter wins (unanimous jury) - 1-1
3) Countrish ballad: Silver vs. Horses - Silver wins - (almost unanimous jury) 2-1
4) The "long jam song": Rambler vs. Knocking - Knocking wins (torn jury after a long fight, but after all we are comparing the studio versions only) 2-2
5) Trad Blues: Love in Vain vs. Move - Move (exhausted jury after above fight, for the same reasons) 2-3

6) Second uptempo rocker: Live With me vs. Bitch - Bitch wins (almost unanimous jury) 2-4
7) Soul Ballad: I don't know why vs. I got the blues - IDKW (unanimous jury) 3-4
8) Acoustic/electric: Let it Bleed vs. Morphine - Bleed (unanimous jury) 4-4
9) Country number: Honk vs. Flowers - Honk (unanimous jury) 5-4
10) Epic finale: YCAGWYW vs. MM - YCAGWYW (unanimous jury) 6-4

There you go!

C