Tell Me :
Talk
Hope you are kidding or trolling...
Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger "changed his art" at a request of ... The Kennedy's(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request.
that said, why sympathy for this..?
is that to mean 'we're hip to you..'
"the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions."
Originally Satan was cast out of heaven and cursed to burn in hell for all eternity...wouldn't you think he's desiring some damn sympathy from the human race or retaliate by laying our souls to waste?
Keiths solo makes all this so clear...
Really? Is this documented anywhere? If that's the reason I agree it was a nice move by Jagger, but I can't imagine John Jr. caring so much about a Stones tune in light of all the books and other media which covers that topic.
peace
yeah I think it does too, I cant think of a more vicious, emotive solo on any instrument, ( only voodoo chile slight return comes to mind)
"have some sympathy, courtesy, taste..indeed
its a threat.
Feel free to tell me what is wrong with my posts then, but don't judge them from my tone or my number of posts!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-06 21:31 by ChelseaGirls.
Looks like the last time he sang those lyrics live was 2002, then starting with the Bigger Bang tour he had decided not to, I am curious if he has ever been quoted about why.
EDIT-
Looking some more- it looks like live videos in 2003 he had dropped the lyrics, but I saw one live video from 2002 and he sang them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-06 21:42 by Leonioid.
I doubt simply not being a current event is the reason why he stopped, because he still sings about Pilate washing his hands, the czar and his ministers, riding a Tank in WWII etc etc.
Sympathy can also mean in support of a position or opinion, like a sympathy vote or strike. I always looked at it that way...that if you encounter the devil, you better get on board with his program, or else. Could also just be that Mick was using the word ironically.
I would bet you a year's worth of beer that there's a generation out there who wouldn't even know the first names of the Kennedys' in question, the same generation that doesn't know what year the first Woodstock festival took place, whereas Pilate is Biblical and therefore more universally known, czars and ministers have a longer and wider cultural history than just one decade in U.S. politics, and tanks and WWII have taken on a symbolic resonance.
The Kennedys' just ain't cool no more.
Ironically?
I'm unsympathetic to that idea bloomy...does that mean you're not the devil or I'm not human?
Your probably right...............
Someone in my country did an investigation how evil humans can be...........it's in you and me...............
__________________________
Talk about your favorite band.
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"...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Pietro
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:03
"I shouted out who killed the Kennedys when after all it was you and me"
This line, of course, comes from "Sympathy for the Devil." What does it mean? That something in human nature abhors an idealist so the Kennedy brothers, John and Robert, were doomed to die early?
That's my interpretation of the most mysterious of Rolling Stones lyrics in the most philosophical of Rolling Stones songs. What's your interpretation?
This line, of course, comes from "Sympathy for the Devil." What does it mean? That something in human nature abhors an idealist so the Kennedy brothers, John and Robert, were doomed to die early?
That's my interpretation of the most mysterious of Rolling Stones lyrics in the most philosophical of Rolling Stones songs. What's your interpretation?
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:10
Satan's manipulation of humanity to destroy itself...rings true throughout the song...even Keith's solo says it
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:17
Yup, I'll go along with Munich on this one.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:23
My take is that the "you" part is they were just too popular with too many and when elevated to such a high level, they were automatically perceived as a thread which couldn't be eliminated by traditional means, so unfortunately they were killed. The "me" part from Satan's perspective just seems that he is involved in all such evil acts.
What's interesting to me is how often (always?) Jagger skips this verse. Not sure if it's because he thinks it's lost some relevance, to shorten the song or out of a personal fear some idiot will retaliate after taking it literally that he was involved. I think it's probably the latter, which is kind of a shame...artists changing their art due to fear.
peace
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-06 20:27 by Naturalust.
What's interesting to me is how often (always?) Jagger skips this verse. Not sure if it's because he thinks it's lost some relevance, to shorten the song or out of a personal fear some idiot will retaliate after taking it literally that he was involved. I think it's probably the latter, which is kind of a shame...artists changing their art due to fear.
peace
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-06 20:27 by Naturalust.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:26
Munich sums it up nicely, it's what the whole song is about. Nothing more, nothing less.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:43
Maybe it means if/when we all allowed them to do what they did to
Kennedys and allowed them to get away with it and believe that BS report
that says it was one guy who did it... and we dont push for the truth and
punish the people behind it... then we are all just as guilty as the people
who set it and pulled the triggers.
Kennedys and allowed them to get away with it and believe that BS report
that says it was one guy who did it... and we dont push for the truth and
punish the people behind it... then we are all just as guilty as the people
who set it and pulled the triggers.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
ChelseaGirls
()
Date: May 6, 2015 20:56
Quote
Leonioid
Maybe it means if/when we all allowed them to do what they did to
Kennedys and allowed them to get away with it and believe that BS report
that says it was one guy who did it... and we dont push for the truth and
punish the people behind it... then we are all just as guilty as the people
who set it and pulled the triggers.
Hope you are kidding or trolling...
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:08
Quote
Naturalust
My take is that the "you" part is they were just too popular with too many and when elevated to such a high level, they were automatically perceived as a thread which couldn't be eliminated by traditional means, so unfortunately they were killed. The "me" part from Satan's perspective just seems that he is involved in all such evil acts.
What's interesting to me is how often (always?) Jagger skips this verse. Not sure if it's because he thinks it's lost some relevance, to shorten the song or out of a personal fear some idiot will retaliate after taking it literally that he was involved. I think it's probably the latter, which is kind of a shame...artists changing their art due to fear.
peace
Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger "changed his art" at a request of ... The Kennedy's(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:11
Quote
Munichhilton
Satan's manipulation of humanity to destroy itself...rings true throughout the song...even Keith's solo says it
that said, why sympathy for this..?
is that to mean 'we're hip to you..'
"the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions."
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:16
User Profile : ChelseaGirls
Posts: 50
Date Registered: six days ago
PSA
^^Everyone realizes this thing is best ignored?
When you run into it, or it replies to you, it is not worth a reply.
It has not made a worthy post yet.
Posts: 50
Date Registered: six days ago
PSA
^^Everyone realizes this thing is best ignored?
When you run into it, or it replies to you, it is not worth a reply.
It has not made a worthy post yet.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:16
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
Naturalust
My take is that the "you" part is they were just too popular with too many and when elevated to such a high level, they were automatically perceived as a thread which couldn't be eliminated by traditional means, so unfortunately they were killed. The "me" part from Satan's perspective just seems that he is involved in all such evil acts.
What's interesting to me is how often (always?) Jagger skips this verse. Not sure if it's because he thinks it's lost some relevance, to shorten the song or out of a personal fear some idiot will retaliate after taking it literally that he was involved. I think it's probably the latter, which is kind of a shame...artists changing their art due to fear. that is so absurd if that is true .
peace
Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger "changed his art" at a request of ... The Kennedy's(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:19
Quote
duke richardsonQuote
Munichhilton
Satan's manipulation of humanity to destroy itself...rings true throughout the song...even Keith's solo says it
that said, why sympathy for this..?
is that to mean 'we're hip to you..'
"the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions."
Originally Satan was cast out of heaven and cursed to burn in hell for all eternity...wouldn't you think he's desiring some damn sympathy from the human race or retaliate by laying our souls to waste?
Keiths solo makes all this so clear...
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:20
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
Naturalust
My take is that the "you" part is they were just too popular with too many and when elevated to such a high level, they were automatically perceived as a thread which couldn't be eliminated by traditional means, so unfortunately they were killed. The "me" part from Satan's perspective just seems that he is involved in all such evil acts.
What's interesting to me is how often (always?) Jagger skips this verse. Not sure if it's because he thinks it's lost some relevance, to shorten the song or out of a personal fear some idiot will retaliate after taking it literally that he was involved. I think it's probably the latter, which is kind of a shame...artists changing their art due to fear.
peace
Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger "changed his art" at a request of ... The Kennedy's(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request.
Really? Is this documented anywhere? If that's the reason I agree it was a nice move by Jagger, but I can't imagine John Jr. caring so much about a Stones tune in light of all the books and other media which covers that topic.
peace
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:27
Quote
MunichhiltonQuote
duke richardsonQuote
Munichhilton
Satan's manipulation of humanity to destroy itself...rings true throughout the song...even Keith's solo says it
that said, why sympathy for this..?
is that to mean 'we're hip to you..'
"the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions."
Originally Satan was cast out of heaven and cursed to burn in hell for all eternity...wouldn't you think he's desiring some damn sympathy from the human race or retaliate by laying our souls to waste?
Keiths solo makes all this so clear...
yeah I think it does too, I cant think of a more vicious, emotive solo on any instrument, ( only voodoo chile slight return comes to mind)
"have some sympathy, courtesy, taste..indeed
its a threat.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
ChelseaGirls
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:29
Quote
Leonioid
User Profile : ChelseaGirls
Posts: 50
Date Registered: six days ago
PSA
^^Everyone realizes this thing is best ignored?
When you run into it, or it replies to you, it is not worth a reply.
It has not made a worthy post yet.
Feel free to tell me what is wrong with my posts then, but don't judge them from my tone or my number of posts!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-06 21:31 by ChelseaGirls.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:36
Quote
NaturalustQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
Naturalust
My take is that the "you" part is they were just too popular with too many and when elevated to such a high level, they were automatically perceived as a thread which couldn't be eliminated by traditional means, so unfortunately they were killed. The "me" part from Satan's perspective just seems that he is involved in all such evil acts.
What's interesting to me is how often (always?) Jagger skips this verse. Not sure if it's because he thinks it's lost some relevance, to shorten the song or out of a personal fear some idiot will retaliate after taking it literally that he was involved. I think it's probably the latter, which is kind of a shame...artists changing their art due to fear.
peace
Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger "changed his art" at a request of ... The Kennedy's(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request.
Really? Is this documented anywhere? If that's the reason I agree it was a nice move by Jagger, but I can't imagine John Jr. caring so much about a Stones tune in light of all the books and other media which covers that topic.
peace
Looks like the last time he sang those lyrics live was 2002, then starting with the Bigger Bang tour he had decided not to, I am curious if he has ever been quoted about why.
EDIT-
Looking some more- it looks like live videos in 2003 he had dropped the lyrics, but I saw one live video from 2002 and he sang them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-06 21:42 by Leonioid.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
tomcasagranda
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:40
I agree with the idea of Satan manipulating humanity to destroy himself. The name Satan is Aramaic for "Deceiver". One of the causes for Christ's betrayal is that Satan entered into the heart of Judas Iscariot, thereby deceiving him into betraying a good man.
If you read the synoptic gospels you'll find that there are many references to different devils, i.e Beelzebub, Legion etc. Likewise, Hell is referred to as Sheol, and Gehenna, and Hades. So, anything to do with the synoptics is open to interpretation: a fact picked up, in general, by Robin Lane Fox in his Unauthorised Version, which is an academic critique of The Bible.
There's also the references to Bulgakov's Master & Margarita, written to the back-drop of Stalinist Russia, with "Permit me to introduce myself", which highlights the devil in one of the worst periods of human history. Stalin did proscribe Bulgakov's novel as a prohibited book.
However, there's always been figures that historiography paints as devils: this stems back to Herodotus writing about Xerxes in his history. Music also showcases apparent devils in the 1980s and 1990s; just check out the video of Johnny Cash's Goin' By The Book, an apocalyptic right wing, albeit over produced, tune.
If you read the synoptic gospels you'll find that there are many references to different devils, i.e Beelzebub, Legion etc. Likewise, Hell is referred to as Sheol, and Gehenna, and Hades. So, anything to do with the synoptics is open to interpretation: a fact picked up, in general, by Robin Lane Fox in his Unauthorised Version, which is an academic critique of The Bible.
There's also the references to Bulgakov's Master & Margarita, written to the back-drop of Stalinist Russia, with "Permit me to introduce myself", which highlights the devil in one of the worst periods of human history. Stalin did proscribe Bulgakov's novel as a prohibited book.
However, there's always been figures that historiography paints as devils: this stems back to Herodotus writing about Xerxes in his history. Music also showcases apparent devils in the 1980s and 1990s; just check out the video of Johnny Cash's Goin' By The Book, an apocalyptic right wing, albeit over produced, tune.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:50
<<Looks like the last time he sang those lyrics live was 2002, then starting with the Bigger Bang tour he had decided not to, I am curious if he has ever been quoted about why.>>
The subject matter is no longer current and doesn't register with the same emotional spark in the public popular consciousness the way it once did at the time it was recorded.
Just like anything else. Suppose Jagger had referenced the Profumo affair in a line of song lyrics. What does the Profumo affair mean to anyone in 2015?
The subject matter is no longer current and doesn't register with the same emotional spark in the public popular consciousness the way it once did at the time it was recorded.
Just like anything else. Suppose Jagger had referenced the Profumo affair in a line of song lyrics. What does the Profumo affair mean to anyone in 2015?
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 6, 2015 21:59
Quote
stonehearted
<<Looks like the last time he sang those lyrics live was 2002, then starting with the Bigger Bang tour he had decided not to, I am curious if he has ever been quoted about why.>>
The subject matter is no longer current and doesn't register with the same emotional spark in the public popular consciousness the way it once did at the time it was recorded.
Just like anything else. Suppose Jagger had referenced the Profumo affair in a line of song lyrics. What does the Profumo affair mean to anyone in 2015?
I doubt simply not being a current event is the reason why he stopped, because he still sings about Pilate washing his hands, the czar and his ministers, riding a Tank in WWII etc etc.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 6, 2015 22:06
I think over-all he is singing about the evil that floats around from being to being and has been here on Earth doing evil things for a long long long time.
The movie "Fallen" is about this sort of evil entity and I found it one of the scariest movies I have ever seen and it uses the Stones song "Time is on my side" in such a way that it changed the way I view that song.
The movie "Fallen" is about this sort of evil entity and I found it one of the scariest movies I have ever seen and it uses the Stones song "Time is on my side" in such a way that it changed the way I view that song.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: May 6, 2015 22:09
Ok , if he sang the verse as late as 2002, it's pretty clear it's probably not at the request of John Kennedy Jr. that he decided to leave it out since John Jr.'s tragic plane crash was in 1999.
Still leaning towards fear as the reason Jagger leaves this line out. Skipping entire verses in classic and well written tunes seems a bit strange, plenty of aging Stones fans that still feel an emotional attachment to the loss of the Kennedy's, probably more than the WWII references, in any case.
Add this to the list of questions for a Jagger IORR interview...
peace
Still leaning towards fear as the reason Jagger leaves this line out. Skipping entire verses in classic and well written tunes seems a bit strange, plenty of aging Stones fans that still feel an emotional attachment to the loss of the Kennedy's, probably more than the WWII references, in any case.
Add this to the list of questions for a Jagger IORR interview...
peace
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: May 6, 2015 22:20
Quote
MunichhiltonQuote
duke richardsonQuote
Munichhilton
Satan's manipulation of humanity to destroy itself...rings true throughout the song...even Keith's solo says it
that said, why sympathy for this..?
is that to mean 'we're hip to you..'
"the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions."
Originally Satan was cast out of heaven and cursed to burn in hell for all eternity...wouldn't you think he's desiring some damn sympathy from the human race or retaliate by laying our souls to waste?
Keiths solo makes all this so clear...
Sympathy can also mean in support of a position or opinion, like a sympathy vote or strike. I always looked at it that way...that if you encounter the devil, you better get on board with his program, or else. Could also just be that Mick was using the word ironically.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 6, 2015 22:21
Can we get this question to the person who pays the $30,000 to meet him?
OR
I will make you all deal. If everyone here donates (at least 300 people donate 100 bucks each) and send me to meet to meet him I will try to get him to answer all your questions.
OR
I will make you all deal. If everyone here donates (at least 300 people donate 100 bucks each) and send me to meet to meet him I will try to get him to answer all your questions.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: May 6, 2015 23:13
Quote
LeonioidQuote
stonehearted
The subject matter is no longer current
I doubt simply not being a current event is the reason why he stopped, because he still sings about Pilate washing his hands, the czar and his ministers, riding a Tank in WWII etc etc.
I would bet you a year's worth of beer that there's a generation out there who wouldn't even know the first names of the Kennedys' in question, the same generation that doesn't know what year the first Woodstock festival took place, whereas Pilate is Biblical and therefore more universally known, czars and ministers have a longer and wider cultural history than just one decade in U.S. politics, and tanks and WWII have taken on a symbolic resonance.
The Kennedys' just ain't cool no more.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: May 7, 2015 00:16
The question is who is "you" in the song? Is it me the Bad and you the Go(o)d
It was you and me
I tell you one time, you're to blame
__________________________
It was you and me
I tell you one time, you're to blame
__________________________
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: May 7, 2015 01:17
Quote
latebloomerQuote
MunichhiltonQuote
duke richardsonQuote
Munichhilton
Satan's manipulation of humanity to destroy itself...rings true throughout the song...even Keith's solo says it
that said, why sympathy for this..?
is that to mean 'we're hip to you..'
"the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions."
Originally Satan was cast out of heaven and cursed to burn in hell for all eternity...wouldn't you think he's desiring some damn sympathy from the human race or retaliate by laying our souls to waste?
Keiths solo makes all this so clear...
Sympathy can also mean in support of a position or opinion, like a sympathy vote or strike. I always looked at it that way...that if you encounter the devil, you better get on board with his program, or else. Could also just be that Mick was using the word ironically.
Ironically?
I'm unsympathetic to that idea bloomy...does that mean you're not the devil or I'm not human?
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
DaveG
()
Date: May 7, 2015 01:22
I think the "Lucifer" or the devil in this song is merely a metaphor. I think it addresses the potential for evil that exists in all humans, and that if we think we're above it, we're fooling ourselves. In other words, let's respect it, let's have a healthy fear of and recognition of the dark underbelly of human nature.
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
2120Wolf
()
Date: May 7, 2015 01:47
I am sure that there are several people on this post who spit out lyrics at a rapid pace...I do...And that is probably what happened here, Mick spit them out probably without even thinking about an instant meaning and then the interpretations begin. I am sure he had something consciously / unconscious going on during the time of writting it. But my call is he spit it out and then let the interpreter have a go at it. It is universal it could mean that you may be Oswalds parents...Or you could be the Gun that Siran used.....the control panel, weather or confusion in John Johns plane. Or just time playing out their destiny...Or mean nothing at all...I really don't think it has a specific meaning...In fact I dont think anything has a specific meaning other than what one would want it to mean....
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: May 7, 2015 01:57
Quote
DaveG
I think the "Lucifer" or the devil in this song is merely a metaphor. I think it addresses the potential for evil that exists in all humans, and that if we think we're above it, we're fooling ourselves. In other words, let's respect it, let's have a healthy fear of and recognition of the dark underbelly of human nature.
Your probably right...............
Someone in my country did an investigation how evil humans can be...........it's in you and me...............
__________________________
Re: "...when after all it was you and me"
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 02:24
I offer this - it's Satan after all asking 'who killed the Kennedy's,' so Satan then answers his own question with 'you and me.' It's as if Satan is blaming society as a whole for being too lax, neglecting its role (or being an inhumane, compassionless society that allowed the Kennedy assassinations).
I don't know if that makes sense, actually.
I don't know if that makes sense, actually.
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