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Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: bigbitch ()
Date: April 10, 2015 05:46

...Keith spouting off about "seeing how far they can go..."..seriously he literally said the exact same thing 25 years ago....4 albums and a touring band...that is the Rolling Stones...there is asbolutely nothing wrong with that in the least...and as a touring band they have been damn good most times more than not....

that said....what the hell is left to prove if they are absolutely unwlling or unable to function as a creative entity and put out new material....they have more money than they need....I wonder if a single one of them has ever challenged the current status of the band and asked - "Why @#$%& aren't we at least trying to say something in our music now?!?!".....

Mick is miracle...he really is...his energy is insane - 5 standard deviations away from the mean of most people let alone a 70 year old - and he has drug the Stones to commercial apex and probably through the ultimate finish line whatever the @#$%& that is these days.....but damn man...for a guy who seems to have a reservoir of song ideas continually in his head.....why - as the undisputed leader of this band isn't he challenging the band to do something in the studio....which of course leads us to the other partner...

Mr. Richards....I love you dude...I always have but honestly for the past 10 years - probably more - you have been absolutely mailing it in as an Artist....yeah you were under-appreciated for your genius the first 15 years (see the jounalist's Bill Wyman's article - hell why we are it throw in the REAL Bill Wyman's own views as well) and then you basked in the reflected glory of that under-appreciation and personal legend frankly to the detriment of what hope the band had to keep creating great music. Now in the sunset of your time - at an age that entire betting public surely would have bet you would never see - you are tired and want rest on those well earned but tired laurels....I get it and I can't blame you...but for fugg's sake Keith quit talking like you have big plans and 'tigers in a bag' and an 'engine that is yearning to roll'....you spit the bit of making music apparently 15 years ago....Chuck Berry has not talked about a new album I bet in 35 years.....he knows exactly what is going on? Do you?

Ronnie Wood- good lord - thank you for at least caring about the Rolling Stones because you were their biggest fan....Ronnie's enthusiasm and his "I'll play with anyone at anytime" had been huge....but you too have been neutered - or if you even really even had a voice is questionable....I don't know what happened to that edgy, chunky guitar that used to truly lead the Faces to some seriously great places but now it just trebly, plonky meaningless fills and occassional guitar heroics cause Keith went AWOL....

Charlie Watts is arguably the best guy in the band...and has been for a long, long time.....he shows up and keeps it going....but I have to ask why - what is left?


I didn't really expect to sit down and knock out this free form status report from where I sit...but stuff just started coming out....

There has not been a day in 40 years that I have not listed to, thought about, engaged in conversation about the Rolling Stones.....and that pattern will continue unabated I suspect based on the genius of it all.....but I never wanted to see the Stones turn into the Beach Boys and while it is a bit of cheap shot...Keith's remarks kind of sent me into massive amount of eye rolling....

Anyway Vive La Stones....

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: April 10, 2015 05:53

...now that, was a big bitch!

Having cleared the air, what you say is true, and it would be incredible to be the fly on the wall to see what the motivation is hear, besides money.

Adulation, relevance, love for the music?

For most of these things, it would behoove them not to try to put out some new material. I don't get it, except that I think MJ and KR are really just putting up with each other and keeping it completely professional.

That works when your putting on a show, but to create, together?

Maybe a blues album could work...something short of a miracle to have them actually create new music together.

Keith's solo album will come out in the fall...I'll bet MJ puts something together as well. Keith will do a couple of Wino's dates.

Stones will roll again in 2016.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: drbryant ()
Date: April 10, 2015 05:57

To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: April 10, 2015 06:19

Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I don't think the issue is even that they're not creating new music, it's that they can't do it 'together' any longer. It shouldn't be that difficult, but it seems to be.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: April 10, 2015 06:29

Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I agree with the good dr. here. They aren't phoning it in, ALL of them are giving everything they can to the performance each and every time they are on stage. We can wish for more, but I don't think we can ask for more than that.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: April 10, 2015 07:00

Quote
latebloomer
Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I agree with the good dr. here. They aren't phoning it in, ALL of them are giving everything they can to the performance each and every time they are on stage. We can wish for more, but I don't think we can ask for more than that.
smileys with beer

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: April 10, 2015 07:58

Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I think a musical performance CAN be a creative act. A performance in which the artists challenge themselves, take risks, improvise, develop themes that vary from night to night. But this tends to NOT be characteristic of a modern-day Stones performance. They are a well-oiled human jukebox designed to spit out reasonable facsimiles of their glory days.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: April 10, 2015 08:23

They have been through the best the recording industry had to offer and seen the demise and change of the whole industry, who can blame them for not wanting to participate, especially in light of the fact that failures could have a negative impact on their tried and true touring business.

Mick probably has written enough songs to put out an album every year or two but has chosen not to for probably these reasons and others. We're lucky Keith is still around so anything he does is icing on the cake, imo. Hopefully his new record will assuage our need for new creative output from him and hopefully Jagger can utilize the Stones to help record and release some of his backlog of songs.

I think all the canned responses from Keith are partly habit and partly the need to continue to promote the touring business. He'll be talking the same jive till the day he takes his last breath.

No expectations from them except to be entertained at the shows and for them to continue to mine the vaults.

peace

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: April 10, 2015 09:46

Quote
bigbitch
...Keith spouting off about "seeing how far they can go..."..seriously he literally said the exact same thing 25 years ago....4 albums and a touring band...that is the Rolling Stones...there is asbolutely nothing wrong with that in the least...and as a touring band they have been damn good most times more than not....

that said....what the hell is left to prove if they are absolutely unwlling or unable to function as a creative entity and put out new material....they have more money than they need....I wonder if a single one of them has ever challenged the current status of the band and asked - "Why @#$%& aren't we at least trying to say something in our music now?!?!".....

Mick is miracle...he really is...his energy is insane - 5 standard deviations away from the mean of most people let alone a 70 year old - and he has drug the Stones to commercial apex and probably through the ultimate finish line whatever the @#$%& that is these days.....but damn man...for a guy who seems to have a reservoir of song ideas continually in his head.....why - as the undisputed leader of this band isn't he challenging the band to do something in the studio....which of course leads us to the other partner...

Mr. Richards....I love you dude...I always have but honestly for the past 10 years - probably more - you have been absolutely mailing it in as an Artist....yeah you were under-appreciated for your genius the first 15 years (see the jounalist's Bill Wyman's article - hell why we are it throw in the REAL Bill Wyman's own views as well) and then you basked in the reflected glory of that under-appreciation and personal legend frankly to the detriment of what hope the band had to keep creating great music. Now in the sunset of your time - at an age that entire betting public surely would have bet you would never see - you are tired and want rest on those well earned but tired laurels....I get it and I can't blame you...but for fugg's sake Keith quit talking like you have big plans and 'tigers in a bag' and an 'engine that is yearning to roll'....you spit the bit of making music apparently 15 years ago....Chuck Berry has not talked about a new album I bet in 35 years.....he knows exactly what is going on? Do you?

Ronnie Wood- good lord - thank you for at least caring about the Rolling Stones because you were their biggest fan....Ronnie's enthusiasm and his "I'll play with anyone at anytime" had been huge....but you too have been neutered - or if you even really even had a voice is questionable....I don't know what happened to that edgy, chunky guitar that used to truly lead the Faces to some seriously great places but now it just trebly, plonky meaningless fills and occassional guitar heroics cause Keith went AWOL....

Charlie Watts is arguably the best guy in the band...and has been for a long, long time.....he shows up and keeps it going....but I have to ask why - what is left?


I didn't really expect to sit down and knock out this free form status report from where I sit...but stuff just started coming out....

There has not been a day in 40 years that I have not listed to, thought about, engaged in conversation about the Rolling Stones.....and that pattern will continue unabated I suspect based on the genius of it all.....but I never wanted to see the Stones turn into the Beach Boys and while it is a bit of cheap shot...Keith's remarks kind of sent me into massive amount of eye rolling....

Anyway Vive La Stones....

An excellent diagnosis. I think there is no one sentence I can't agree on.

But this all can be seen in a bigger scheme of things. The Stones are an unique representation of the whole rock music culture. Or like: what it takes to remain big in the business. And I mean, really big, They did number one radio hit singles when that was the criterion of success, and the necessity to be big. They did artistically acclaimed number one hit albums when that was the criterion, and the necessity to be big. And they do number one mega tours, and milk out the nostalgia market, when that is the criterion of success, and the necessity to remain big.

The Stones always seem to know where the big money is, and what it takes to get there. For the first twenty years they needed to be creative to gain that. Not any longer. (The difference might be that in the past - the first twenty years - the big money probably was not the primal motivation, but like: just being big and popular, which was then to be translated into big bucks; now it is all about money, and they are these days - for the last 25 years - dealing with such sums that they couldn't even imagine in their wildest dreams in the past)

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-10 09:48 by Doxa.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: April 10, 2015 09:55

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I think a musical performance CAN be a creative act. A performance in which the artists challenge themselves, take risks, improvise, develop themes that vary from night to night. But this tends to NOT be characteristic of a modern-day Stones performance. They are a well-oiled human jukebox designed to spit out reasonable facsimiles of their glory days.

and there we go...yes, the performance CAN be creative, but the heavy reliance on certain aspects of their catalogue really show that they aren't being very creative on the performance side at all. They're really good, Mick and Charlie are REALLY great, but come on. The creativity isn't there...saying it is doesn't make it so.

So we're left with an excellent show, with great songs. I'd go again if it were coming by anywhere near me.

BUT I'm not inspired by the creativity, it just isn't there.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:00

Good pov there BB. I have to agree with your comments. I'm never sure what the motivation is to continue. Maybe as people that have never done anything else, the motivation is...being themselves??? I don't know.

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:09

I think it was William Perks, who often comes across as the most honest, down to earth, Stone who said that if you stop touring behind a new album you're a revival band.
And that's basically what they are these days and not only that: A 0,8 revival band (they are missing their bass player).

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:26

Quote
Father Ted
Good pov there BB. I have to agree with your comments. I'm never sure what the motivation is to continue. Maybe as people that have never done anything else, the motivation is...being themselves??? I don't know.

Yes. And don't underestimate the part that they like to tour because it became a habit. It all started with that. Doing a gig. It's their way of life so it's at least something MJ & KR have in common and that's the reason we can see sometimes those forms of contact between them. That's the kind of contact happening on and around the stage only. It makes them feel good being on stage and that's the only motivation you need.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Date: April 10, 2015 10:29

Quote
latebloomer
Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I agree with the good dr. here. They aren't phoning it in, ALL of them are giving everything they can to the performance each and every time they are on stage. We can wish for more, but I don't think we can ask for more than that.

Hear, hear! The voice of reason.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Date: April 10, 2015 10:30

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
drbryant
To me, a musician is does not stop being an artist because he stops writing new material. The performance itself, every night, is the creative act. Others disagree, I know.

I think a musical performance CAN be a creative act. A performance in which the artists challenge themselves, take risks, improvise, develop themes that vary from night to night. But this tends to NOT be characteristic of a modern-day Stones performance. They are a well-oiled human jukebox designed to spit out reasonable facsimiles of their glory days.

If you and I can be more than that when we're in our mid-70s, we'll be extremely happy. But no one can expect that of us, right?

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:32

Isn't this the same for most of the bands? Just a few are active with new CD's, most of them play the old stuff. Why not Stones if that's what they want / can?

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:42

So they just end it ..... And just what exactly are ya gonna do then ????

Just imagine the moaning & sookin' that'll rain down ... AAAHHHHAAAAA....AAAAHHHHHH wish now I'd gone an seen 'em play ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:51

Quote
Rockman
So they just end it ..... And just what exactly are ya gonna do then ????

Just imagine the moaning & sookin' that'll rain down ... AAAHHHHAAAAA....AAAAHHHHHH wish now I'd gone an seen 'em play ....

I'm not sure what sookin' is, but right on anyway, brother. smileys with beer

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: April 10, 2015 10:56

.....cryin' & sulking like a baby



ROCKMAN

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 10, 2015 11:10

"Perhaps it's just time to end this..."

Reminds me of a "thing" that happened on a Germanwings flight...

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Gfmsoccer ()
Date: April 10, 2015 11:11

This is a funny thread. Of course bands get old and aren't what they used to be. But the music is their drug and they love the rush it gives them, even at 70. Mick is a perfectionist, and has created this big production formula that makes them billionaires. They'd all still be playing clubs if it wasn't for him creating the big stadium spectacle, that most of the casual, radio hits fans love.

You guys are hardcore, insider fans. You're not going to get the show or albums you want because they've been there, done that, and at 70 they like to put it on cruise control, have fun getting their rush, and big payday, and they can see enough fans still enjoy it.

They've earned the right to play on, well past their prime, for the love of the music, the fans, the money.

Mick pushed the band for new music with Bigger Bang. It took them years to pull that together. It was their best work in 25 years. Critics liked it, but fans did not buy it, and when they performed the new stuff, fans went for a beer, which Mick said in a few interviews. So he said @#$%& It! You want the big hits, you'll get them. We'll even let you vote on the songs we do.

This is the last Stadium tour of the US, and probably last big tour anywhere, so enjoy it. They've said, as soon as 1 of the last 4 want to hang it up, that's it, they are done, and I bet its Charlie fairly soon.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Date: April 10, 2015 11:14

Quote
Gfmsoccer
This is a funny thread. Of course bands get old and aren't what they used to be. But the music is their drug and they love the rush it gives them, even at 70. Mick is a perfectionist, and has created this big production formula that makes them billionaires. They'd all still be playing clubs if it wasn't for him creating the big stadium spectacle, that most of the casual, radio hits fans love.

You guys are hardcore, insider fans. You're not going to get the show or albums you want because they've been there, done that, and at 70 they like to put it on cruise control, have fun getting their rush, and big payday, and they can see enough fans still enjoy it.

They've earned the right to play on, well past their prime, for the love of the music, the fans, the money.

Mick pushed the band for new music with Bigger Bang. It took them years to pull that together. It was their best work in 25 years. Critics liked it, but fans did not buy it, and when they performed the new stuff, fans went for a beer, which Mick said in a few interviews. So he said @#$%& It! You want the big hits, you'll get them. We'll even let you vote on the songs we do.

This is the last Stadium tour of the US, and probably last big tour anywhere, so enjoy it. They've said, as soon as 1 of the last 4 want to hang it up, that's it, they are done, and I bet its Charlie fairly soon.

No, it didn't. More like weeks.

But I agree with the rest of your post smiling smiley

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: April 10, 2015 12:22

They can do what they like, but it's a shame about the greed. My firend in LA wanted good seats for the LA concert, and they are $1700. Even the nosebleeds aren't cheap apparently.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Date: April 10, 2015 12:32

Quote
Bliss
They can do what they like, but it's a shame about the greed. My firend in LA wanted good seats for the LA concert, and they are $1700. Even the nosebleeds aren't cheap apparently.

WHAAAAAAT??

EDIT: It must be because there isn't any LA concert winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-10 12:34 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: April 10, 2015 12:39

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gfmsoccer
This is a funny thread. Of course bands get old and aren't what they used to be. But the music is their drug and they love the rush it gives them, even at 70. Mick is a perfectionist, and has created this big production formula that makes them billionaires. They'd all still be playing clubs if it wasn't for him creating the big stadium spectacle, that most of the casual, radio hits fans love.

You guys are hardcore, insider fans. You're not going to get the show or albums you want because they've been there, done that, and at 70 they like to put it on cruise control, have fun getting their rush, and big payday, and they can see enough fans still enjoy it.

They've earned the right to play on, well past their prime, for the love of the music, the fans, the money.

Mick pushed the band for new music with Bigger Bang. It took them years to pull that together. It was their best work in 25 years. Critics liked it, but fans did not buy it, and when they performed the new stuff, fans went for a beer, which Mick said in a few interviews. So he said @#$%& It! You want the big hits, you'll get them. We'll even let you vote on the songs we do.

This is the last Stadium tour of the US, and probably last big tour anywhere, so enjoy it. They've said, as soon as 1 of the last 4 want to hang it up, that's it, they are done, and I bet its Charlie fairly soon.

No, it didn't. More like weeks.

But I agree with the rest of your post smiling smiley

Even with that A BIGGER BANG is their best work in 25 years... since EMOTIONAL RESCUE, that is... grinning smiley

(Sorry, couldn't resist....)

- Doxa

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Date: April 10, 2015 12:42

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gfmsoccer
This is a funny thread. Of course bands get old and aren't what they used to be. But the music is their drug and they love the rush it gives them, even at 70. Mick is a perfectionist, and has created this big production formula that makes them billionaires. They'd all still be playing clubs if it wasn't for him creating the big stadium spectacle, that most of the casual, radio hits fans love.

You guys are hardcore, insider fans. You're not going to get the show or albums you want because they've been there, done that, and at 70 they like to put it on cruise control, have fun getting their rush, and big payday, and they can see enough fans still enjoy it.

They've earned the right to play on, well past their prime, for the love of the music, the fans, the money.

Mick pushed the band for new music with Bigger Bang. It took them years to pull that together. It was their best work in 25 years. Critics liked it, but fans did not buy it, and when they performed the new stuff, fans went for a beer, which Mick said in a few interviews. So he said @#$%& It! You want the big hits, you'll get them. We'll even let you vote on the songs we do.

This is the last Stadium tour of the US, and probably last big tour anywhere, so enjoy it. They've said, as soon as 1 of the last 4 want to hang it up, that's it, they are done, and I bet its Charlie fairly soon.

No, it didn't. More like weeks.

But I agree with the rest of your post smiling smiley

Even with that A BIGGER BANG is their best work in 25 years... since EMOTIONAL RESCUE, that is... grinning smiley

(Sorry, couldn't resist....)

- Doxa

Perhaps not the entire ABB, but some of it is really great smiling smiley

PS: SW came out 26 years ago...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-10 12:47 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 10, 2015 13:22

These posts really belong to the "Keith Richards interview Rolling Stone, April 9" thread. I made my commenthere:

[www.iorr.org]

Bjornulf

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: April 10, 2015 16:21

Quote
bv
These posts really belong to the "Keith Richards interview Rolling Stone, April 9" thread. I made my commenthere:

[www.iorr.org]

Beyond you're possibly having some actual source for this, I'd agree that if you're speculating, the points are pretty logical.

They'll tour as long as they're enjoying themselves and making money...and with how they've lined up their schedule, with no huge commitments at any time, with lots of time off, this could continue for quite some time.

The only thing that would be a pleasant surprise, is if they do in fact come up with another studio album.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: Bungo ()
Date: April 10, 2015 16:23

The distillation of his original post is simply how ludicrous Keith's statements are. He has always lived in his own illusion of greatness and relevance. That train left the station many years ago...and yes, it is laughable and a little bit embarrassing to read his silly comments.

Everything else The Stones do, however, is completely understandable. the music industry now is very different than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Today, touring is where the money is. If they can do it and people buy tickets then that's the bottom line. As far as new material, they know nobody will buy it plus they don't want to go through the aggravation of recording and everyone knows it will never stand up to their classic material. Nobody cares about new material. I certainly don't.

This is what old Classic Rock acts do in their golden years. Look at The Who, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Aerosmith, U2 etc. etc. No one gives a Crap about new material. They're ALL nostalgia acts and they make a great living by touring to old, grey haired men and women. In a few years they'll all be gone. then it will be the next generation of oldies acts. No one ever gave a crap about Frank Sinatra's new material.

Re: Perhaps it's just time to end this....
Posted by: forsure ()
Date: April 10, 2015 16:26

they play music, it's what they do.


we used to play for silver, now we play for life



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-10 16:27 by forsure.

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