You are a smart man HonkeyTonkFlash...

Sympathy was always my fav Stones track.
Cant listen to it now from the current show.
In fact i have no time for it after the mid 70's.
1989 was ok...but essentially all versions 1968-1970 were perfect..i.e. they portrayed the song the way it should be..the rest phoney.

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Eleanor Rigby
You are a smart man HonkeyTonkFlash...

Sympathy was always my fav Stones track.
Cant listen to it now from the current show.
In fact i have no time for it after the mid 70's.
1989 was ok...but essentially all versions 1968-1970 were perfect..i.e. they portrayed the song the way it should be..the rest phoney.

Right, and what happened to SFTD is fairly representative of what happened to the Stones live show in general. Up until 1981-82 they played for Stones fans. Most of us liked the fact that they re-arranged their songs for the stage instead of slavishly copying their studio versions. What they did in 1989 was kind of cool simply because they'd been gone for so many years, but from then on they kind of neglected their diehards and catered to casual "classic rock" fans who wanted to hear the hits just like they remembered them from the records. I've seen the Stones four times since 1989 and enjoyed them but for me The Rolling Stones that I truly loved did their farewell tour in 1981-82. In 1989 they debuted the world's most spectacular Rolling Stones Tribute Band and have continued as such ever since. At least in 1989 I still naively held out some hope that on a future tour they might try reviving a guitar-driven version of Sympathy ala Ya Ya's or Love You Live. Obviously, that will never happen again. The horns, the backing singers, the loops...all were harbingers that we would never see the real Rolling Stones again. I still love them and wouldn't mind seeing them again. But for me, part of the thrill of seeing them live was wondering how they would change their songs for the stage. Those days are long gone.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-01-08 16:29 by HonkeyTonkFlash.

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HonkeyTonkFlash

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TheflyingDutchman

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HonkeyTonkFlash
Speaking of SFTD, I just have to say this regarding the Ya Ya's version. Pure magic, especially towards the end where Taylor picks up the solo and Keith drops into rhythm. Keith's thrashing behind Taylor's lead is - for me - the most excellent example of why Keith Richards was the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time.

There are many examples showing us that Keith was one of the greatest -if not the greatest rhythm guitarist in rock music.

Very true, but I'm just saying that for me his work on Ya Ya's Sympathy is a peak moment. And Ya Ya's has plenty of examples of it. Stray Cat Blues comes to mind and many others. I would also add his driving, chugging playing on songs like All Down The Line as heard on Some Girls Live and other performances of that era. His rhythm playing for the most part from 1969 - 1981 was from a whole other planet. I think working with Taylor, who played so much lead made Keith develop a very unique style. He is still a very good rhythm player at times but it seems that since 1989, he started that habit of taking his hands off the guitar more often and posing as contrasted with constant relentless aggressive playing. Actually, there were moments of such behavior quite a bit in 1981. I liked him best when he played those driving rhythms constantly throughout the songs.

I agree with most you write. I'm Free, Baltimore '69 and Gimme Shelter, Philly '72 are other great examples (re the bold letters) I think Richards and Taylor got the best out of each other when they played together, on stage in particular.

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TheflyingDutchman

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HonkeyTonkFlash

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TheflyingDutchman

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HonkeyTonkFlash
Speaking of SFTD, I just have to say this regarding the Ya Ya's version. Pure magic, especially towards the end where Taylor picks up the solo and Keith drops into rhythm. Keith's thrashing behind Taylor's lead is - for me - the most excellent example of why Keith Richards was the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time.

There are many examples showing us that Keith was one of the greatest -if not the greatest rhythm guitarist in rock music.

Very true, but I'm just saying that for me his work on Ya Ya's Sympathy is a peak moment. And Ya Ya's has plenty of examples of it. Stray Cat Blues comes to mind and many others. I would also add his driving, chugging playing on songs like All Down The Line as heard on Some Girls Live and other performances of that era. His rhythm playing for the most part from 1969 - 1981 was from a whole other planet. I think working with Taylor, who played so much lead made Keith develop a very unique style. He is still a very good rhythm player at times but it seems that since 1989, he started that habit of taking his hands off the guitar more often and posing as contrasted with constant relentless aggressive playing. Actually, there were moments of such behavior quite a bit in 1981. I liked him best when he played those driving rhythms constantly throughout the songs.

I agree with most you write. I'm Free, Baltimore '69 and Gimme Shelter, Philly '72 are other great examples (re the bold letters) I think Richards and Taylor got the best out of each other when they played together, on stage in particular.

Yes, I get the impression that Keith started playing in a somewhat "weaving" style with Brian Jones - which he would later revisit with Ronnie, but Mick Taylor's penchant for playing lead lines through much of the songs led Keith to really take rhythm guitar to a whole new level. Much of his rhythm playing during the Taylor years and even up to 1981 was just transcendent.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

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HonkeyTonkFlash
... his driving, chugging playing on songs like All Down The Line as heard on Some Girls Live and other performances of that era. His rhythm playing for the most part from 1969 - 1981 was from a whole other planet.

The greatest rhythm playing I've ever heard from Keith is on the two Chuck Berry tunes on GYYYO!, which is how you just described it - that chugging. There's something weird about the styling of it, it feels like it has a lag to it but it doesn't. He does a much tighter and faster chugging on Rocks Off, which is just stellar.

His playing on Midnight Rambler on GYYYO! is just razor sharp. The huge open bulldozing playing on Street Fighting Man with those huge clanging riffs is exceptional.

Definitely a peak time for Keith regarding is rhythmic style, execution and musicianship, 1968-1973 (not so much with GOATS HEAD SOUP but the tour).

LA Friday 1975. The Best.

video: [vimeo.com]

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muffie
LA Friday 1975. The Best.

video: [vimeo.com]

Lovely - but NOT better than the studio or GYYYO

Rod

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muffie
LA Friday 1975. The Best.

video: [vimeo.com]

I love it.

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bitusa2012

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muffie
LA Friday 1975. The Best.

video: [vimeo.com]

Lovely - but NOT better than the studio or GYYYO

Agree. Ronnie did most of the work. Keith doesn't turn it on until 4:15. Still, a superb version. Some girls of course make it special.

it's one of those songs that cant be compared to anything else. nothing sounds similar. bowies heroes is also a song like that. like an own genre.
it's not among my personal favs. but i mus admit it's a killer song!

Hi Folks

I am searching for a video with the full original text inclusive of the following text passage:-

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Can anybody help please?

Thanks - d.f

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dead.flowers
Hi Folks

I am searching for a video with the full original text inclusive of the following text passage:-

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Can anybody help please?

Thanks - d.f

Drew

I love Sympathy live! Although, it has to have the all the effects - the pyro, Mick in his hat and trench coat that seems to have been missing in the past coupla years. To me, this was the true highlight of the show - my Rambler if you will. I always enjoyed this one live. It was quite the spectacle!!!!

Thank you Drew.

But are there any such live videos around?

d.f

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HonkeyTonkFlash

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Eleanor Rigby
You are a smart man HonkeyTonkFlash...

Sympathy was always my fav Stones track.
Cant listen to it now from the current show.
In fact i have no time for it after the mid 70's.
1989 was ok...but essentially all versions 1968-1970 were perfect..i.e. they portrayed the song the way it should be..the rest phoney.

Right, and what happened to SFTD is fairly representative of what happened to the Stones live show in general. Up until 1981-82 they played for Stones fans. Most of us liked the fact that they re-arranged their songs for the stage instead of slavishly copying their studio versions. What they did in 1989 was kind of cool simply because they'd been gone for so many years, but from then on they kind of neglected their diehards and catered to casual "classic rock" fans who wanted to hear the hits just like they remembered them from the records. I've seen the Stones four times since 1989 and enjoyed them but for me The Rolling Stones that I truly loved did their farewell tour in 1981-82. In 1989 they debuted the world's most spectacular Rolling Stones Tribute Band and have continued as such ever since. At least in 1989 I still naively held out some hope that on a future tour they might try reviving a guitar-driven version of Sympathy ala Ya Ya's or Love You Live. Obviously, that will never happen again. The horns, the backing singers, the loops...all were harbingers that we would never see the real Rolling Stones again. I still love them and wouldn't mind seeing them again. But for me, part of the thrill of seeing them live was wondering how they would change their songs for the stage. Those days are long gone.

I think that many of us will identify with your comments ....but by now I suspect most of us are just reconciled to it .

[I still enjoy some of Keith's subtle changes and inflections of the beat on the old "Warhorses" though ]

For the Stamp Collectors amongst us.....

There is a 7-inch version of One Plus One that is coming out in early-November. I've actually never seen Sympathy For The Devil, though I own it on DVD - the faded yellow cover version, with Mick sitting on a stool kind of in the center of the cover. I'm not sure if One Plus One is on that particular copy or not, and since my collection is mostly in storage at the moment, I have no way of confirming yes or not.

I ordered my copy of this new version from YesAsia, as it was the only place that I could find this particular version, but I see now that it's also available on Amazon.JP. I'm not sure now if it's an official release, or an unofficial one, but the 7-inch size is cool, and it will look nice alongside the other 7-inch sized, re-releases. It also comes with a limited edition poster of the memorial screening after Charlie's untimely passing. I don't recall reading anywhere that this movie was played - was it? The Amazon site has some more info than YesAsia, but I still can't really make out who the manufacturer is. In any case, I wanted the Stamp Collectors to be aware of its existence!!!

One Plus One

Who killed the Kennedys? The Rolling Stones won’t tell you anymore.

The rock legends stopped singing a sinister lyric from “Sympathy for the Devil.” Why?

By Paul Schwartzman
July 11, 2024


Ronnie Wood, Keith Richards and Mick Jagger perform in New Jersey in May. (Kevin Mazur/Getty Images)

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Can't read the article. The song is long enough as it is the way they play it since 1989 so leaving out an entire section of the verses is fine.

Whatever the article says, that entire verse has been left out since 1975.

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GasLightStreet
Whatever the article says, that entire verse has been left out since 1975.

That’s what I thought.

Can't read the article either. So does this writer have some kind of point?

- Doxa

Who killed the Kennedys? The Rolling Stones won’t tell you anymore.
The rock legends stopped singing a sinister lyric from “Sympathy for the Devil.” Why?


By Paul Schwartzman
Updated July 11, 2024 at 9:00 a.m. EDT|Published July 11, 2024 at 5:00 a.m. EDT


We were in our seats high above the stage when the huge video screens turned a hellscape red and the clamor of piano and percussion merged with that familiar hypnotic chant: “Woo-woo! Woo-woo!”
Everyone in the stadium knew Satan was about to introduce himself, as rendered for the umpteenth time by 80-year-old Mick Jagger, somehow still twirling away in a twinkling three-quarter coat, more than five decades after the Rolling Stones cut their classic “Sympathy for the Devil.”
“Please allow me to introduce myself/ I’m a man of wealth and taste,” Jagger began before reciting the song’s catalogue of Great Moments in Evil, including the slaying of Jesus Christ and the assassination of the “Czar and his ministers” in St. Petersburg, when “Anastasia screamed in vain.”


Anyone who loves “Sympathy for the Devil” knows what comes in the third verse, just as fans of “The Godfather” know what awaits Sonny when he rolls up to the tollbooth. Except, in Philadelphia on that night last month, Jagger blew past the lines that first astonished me years ago as a teenager, the audacious question, “I shouted out, ‘Who killed the Kennedys?’” (I thought we knew), and the sneering answer: “When after all, it was you and me.”
Wait, what?

“Did I miss the Kennedy line?” I asked my wife, who was marveling that the octogenarian frontman was now skipping the length of the sprawling stage. If Jagger sang the Kennedy line, she also missed it.

Had the Stones sanitized their ode to madness? Had “Sympathy for the Devil” become “Sympathy”-lite?

Jagger wrote the song in 1968, a year when America was engulfed in a full-on meltdown as the Vietnam War triggered massive antiwar demonstrations and assassins cut down Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy. Jagger, inspired by the writings of Charles Baudelaire, has said that he intended “Sympathy” as “a Bob Dylan song.” Keith Richards suggested a samba beat, giving the tune a fevered vibe that captured the mood du jour.
When the Stones went into the recording studio in early June of ’68, a moment documented by Jean-Luc Godard in his film “Sympathy for the Devil,” Jagger’s lyric read, “I shouted out, ‘Who killed Kennedy?,’” referring to only President John F. Kennedy. The band was still working on the song on June 6, when RFK died. Jagger updated the lyric to the plural: “I shouted out, ‘Who killed the Kennedys?’”

The Rolling Stones in December 1968. (Mark and Colleen Hayward/Getty Images)
“Those were the lines that hit with genuine force,” said the esteemed music critic Anthony DeCurtis, a contributing editor at Rolling Stone who taught a University of Pennsylvania class this spring titled “Let It Rock: The Rolling Stones, Writing and Creativity.” “To me, it was an indication of how the zeitgeist was flowing right through the Stones and how the they were connected to what was happening at that moment.

DeCurtis attended the Stones shows at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey in May and wasn’t sure what to make of it when he noticed Jagger’s omission. “It’s my favorite verse. I was thinking, ‘What the f--- happened to the Kennedy verse?’”
The mystery deepened for me when videos on social media showed that Jagger hadn’t mentioned Kennedy during other performances on the 2024 tour, including in Seattle, Houston, Chicago and New Orleans. I texted my old friend Serge Kovaleski, who, in addition to being an ace New York Times reporter, is the most devoted Stones fan I know. By his own count, Serge has attended some 80 shows in 13 countries since 1975, including a half-dozen this year.
Serge hadn’t noticed the missing Kennedy lyric and guessed that a sensitivity to contemporary political mores may have pushed the Stones to make an adjustment. After all, the band had stopped playing “Brown Sugar” in recent years, with its images of the slave trade and sex, and dropped a line from “Some Girls,” about the sexual appetites of Black women, that had angered the Rev. Jesse Jackson when it was released. (That said, Richards is still singing “Little T & A,” suggesting that the Stones are not exactly spending a lot of time studying contemporary etiquette guides.)

Mick Jagger in 1968. (Joe Bangay/Getty Images)
Further study proved that none of this is new. In fact, the Stones have managed to perform an edited version of “Sympathy” for years without provoking any significant commentary. One place where the revision was noticed was on the website It’s Only Rock’n Roll, a gathering spot for the Stones-obsessed, where commenters as far back as 2015 traded theories about the missing lyric.


“Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger ‘changed his art’ at a request of … The Kennedy’s(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request,” wrote someone identifying themselves as MisterDDDD. But that explanation seems unlikely, given that author C. David Heymann, in his late-2000s biography of John Jr. and Caroline, quoted a buddy saying the president’s son “loved to shock” his friends by belting out the “Kennedys” lyric during his own impromptu renditions of “Sympathy.”
Robert Christgau, the former Village Voice music editor known among scribes as the “dean of American rock critics,” has been writing about popular music since the 1960s. Christgau said he hasn’t seen the Stones perform since the early 2000s and was unaware that Jagger no longer sings the Kennedy verse live. The lyric, he said, signified that “this is a world where people get killed and all of us, to one extent or another, are implicated in the fact that this is that world.”
“That was the moment when people were trying to decide whether the Beatles or the Stones were more relevant,” Christgau said. “The high ’60s were over, and it was a time when the Stones had more political respect, because they wrote more about evil, which is not to say they were encouraging it as much as they had this dark side to their version of the world.”

As for whether it matters in 2024 whether Jagger sings the lines, Christgau laughed and said: “It’s nearly 60 years later. Who gives a s---? ‘Who killed the Kennedys?’ is no longer meaningful to the younger audience, and even the Stones’ contemporaries, because we have lived with this for more than 50 years. It’s their song, and they can do what they want with it.”
Story continues below advertisement

Christgau suggested the best way to solve the mystery of the missing lyric was to ask the Stones themselves.
An email to the Stones’ public relations operation led to a phone call with a spokeswoman who introduced herself by saying, “I work with Mick.” She then decreed that anything she said from that moment on was off the record, rendering the explanation she may or may not have provided as unusable. She indicated that she would follow up with something printable.
While I waited, I burrowed deeper into the archives and discovered that the Stones, as far back as 2006, excised the “Kennedys” verse at a benefit concert for Bill Clinton’s 60th birthday in New York. Martin Scorsese filmed the show for his documentary “Shine A Light.”
Story continues below advertisement

The New York Daily News speculated at the time that Jagger had skipped the verse because Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was in the audience. When a reporter at the film’s premiere asked whether he had dropped the line out of deference to RFK Jr., Jagger offered an answer as deft as his stage moves.
“Did I leave that out?” he asked. “That song is so long, I always cut a verse. I guess it must’ve been that one.”
His explanation may seem plausible, except that the entire verse accounts for about 30 seconds in a song that clocks in at more than six minutes. Not exactly an eternity during a two-hour show.
Fortunately, for those who prefer complete renditions of “Sympathy for the Devil,” there are more than a few live performances in the Stones’ catalogue. Naturally, the trove also includes many stellar (and unedited) versions of “You Can’t Always Get What You Want.

Lol.

Apparently I'm quoted in the article.. and promptly refuted

“Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger ‘changed his art’ at a request of … The Kennedy’s(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request,” wrote someone identifying themselves as MisterDDDD. But that explanation seems unlikely, given that author C. David Heymann, in his late-2000s biography of John Jr. and Caroline, quoted a buddy saying the president’s son “loved to shock” his friends by belting out the “Kennedys” lyric during his own impromptu renditions of “Sympathy.”

I had heard John Jr., but the story circulated enough, with no real mention of which Kennedy requested (Caroline?) that I still believe there was likely a request to not play it. at a show they were all attending, and Jagger has left it out since.

The arrangement from 1989 to the present has been chorus Keith solo chorus and then “just as every cop is a criminal.” It wasn’t played at all in 78 or 81. That verse has not been sung for a very long time. Possibly I’m wrong about that.

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Doxa
Can't read the article either. So does this writer have some kind of point?

- Doxa

Only Mick Jagger knows who killed the Kennedy's? Even in the future?

Can't wait for an "article" headlined

KEITH RICHARDS BREATHES THROUGH HIS MOUTH ON STAGE LIKE HE'S SIPPING STONE SOUP
Los Angeles, A/P -

80 year old riffmaster Keith Richards spends a majority of his time onstage breathing through his mouth like he's scooping water from a trough. It's how he paces himself.

"I gave up the lab. Now it's about being present."

Richards, who's most famous for his guitar playing on such hits as "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction," "Start Me Up" and "Won't Get Fooled Again", attributes his stamina to "an occasional glass of wine."

Richards lives in the Bahamas on Parrot Cay.



Does an editor come up with this crap?

Editor: Let's create some really interesting clickbait!

Writer: Ok, uh... Amazon prefers rectangular boxes because they fit better - it's a storage hack!

Editor: Airplane windows are roundish because squareish would be ugly.

Writer: Upside down rollercoasters are more exciting than upside up rollercoasters!

Editor: The Stones haven't sang about the Kennedy's since, well, just make something up.

Writer: YES! I'll get on YouTube and look back a few years and make a declaration that they're hiding something.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-11 19:53 by MisterDDDD.

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MisterDDDD
Lol.

Apparently I'm quoted in the article.. and promptly refuted

“Pretty well accepted as truth that Jagger ‘changed his art’ at a request of … The Kennedy’s(John Jr.) I applaud his decision to honor the request,” wrote someone identifying themselves as MisterDDDD. But that explanation seems unlikely, given that author C. David Heymann, in his late-2000s biography of John Jr. and Caroline, quoted a buddy saying the president’s son “loved to shock” his friends by belting out the “Kennedys” lyric during his own impromptu renditions of “Sympathy.”

I had heard John Jr., but the story circulated enough, with no real mention of which Kennedy requested (Caroline?) that I still believe there was likely a request to not play it. at a show they were all attending, and Jagger has left it out since.

So what they're not saying is that a Kennedy requested Mick to permanently leave that entire stanza out... in 1975.

Mick has left the entire stanza out since 1975. It was edited out for GYYYO.

There's never been one peep from Mick about why. That I've ever read.

What a fake story. At least my Keith mouth breathing story is factually wrong, on purpose, of course.

IORR is the place to go for Stones info, even all these years later, and MisterDDDD - take a bow!

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GasLightStreet
Whatever the article says, that entire verse has been left out since 1975.

that is incorrect

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mjmjr

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GasLightStreet
Whatever the article says, that entire verse has been left out since 1975.

that is incorrect

Wrong in which direction? I looked up Love You Live and LA Friday … he doesn’t sing it then either.