video: [youtu.be]

Is this the same guitar?

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TravelinMan
video: [youtu.be]

Is this the same guitar?

If it is (?), and the great stories behind, Taylor and Keith playing it, Yaya's picture etc, I don't understand why Taylor called it "a dog", -context:not interested in it at all-.. Great sounding guitar and player btw!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-08-10 15:09 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
video: [youtu.be]

Is this the same guitar?

If it is (?), and the great stories behind, Taylor and Keith playing it, Yaya's picture etc, I don't understand why Taylor called it "a dog", -context:not interested in it at all-.. Great sounding guitar and player btw!

This is a different guitar -it's Taylor's 1958 Les Paul he used for the 1971 and 1972 tour. It's the Les Paul with double black pickups Taylor uses for the entire L&G move (and the entire 1972 tour for that matter.

If this is the same guitar that's on the cover of Ya Ya's is not entirely sure -Taylor has stated that he bought this one to replace the 'missing' Keith burst (with the Bigsby), and the earliest picture of him using it is on the 1971 tour.

The Bigsby Burst / keith Burst is known to have a fairly large D-shaped neck, with a high action, and is fairly heavy. This is likeley why they tuned it to open G, with both Richards and Taylor opting for other guitars for standard tuning. As far as I know Taylor has used it only one time in standard tuning for a show: at the Lyceum Theater in December 1969.

Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman
I can't make head or tail of it.

Wat is het probleem dan? Zo lastig is het toch niet?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman
I can't make head or tail of it.

(Translation for the others here): What is it that you don't understand, it's perfectly simple?

Mathijs

I don't understand if we are talking about the '58 or the other '58 guitar by now that MD is talking about.Now there are two, a newly bought despite his expensive habits ? How we know for sure that it's not stolen from Taylor, which you consider a possibility in your prior post?

And why does she make a fuzz about it. When there is smoke, there must (or could) be fire ? Why not give it a try, even for the money only? I would give it a try If I was in Taylor's shoes.

Too many unanswered questions and variables left for me to find out what really happened or happens.

Sorry for my last minute edit.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-08-10 21:41 by TheflyingDutchman.

Was that the guitar he played on Hillside Blues? That song has great guitar playing by him and Keith.I am surprised it wasn’t released as part of the bonus tracks.That along with Traveling Man, Separately (Yes Taylor released it with bad vocals)and Nellacote Instrumental among others.

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Taylor1
Was that the guitar he played on Hillside Blues? That song has great guitar playing by him and Keith.I am surprised it wasn’t released as part of the bonus tracks.That along with Traveling Man, Separately (Yes Taylor released it with bad vocals)and Nellacote Instrumental among others.

Sounds like the SG to me.

Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman
I can't make head or tail of it.

(Translation for the others here): What is it that you don't understand, it's perfectly simple?

Mathijs

I don't understand if we are talking about the '58 or the other '58 guitar by now that MD is talking about.Now there are two, a newly bought despite his expensive habits ? How we know for sure that it's not stolen from Taylor, which you consider a possibility in your prior post?

And why does she make a fuzz about it. When there is smoke, there must (or could) be fire ? Why not give it a try, even for the money only? I would give it a try If I was in Taylor's shoes.

Too many unanswered questions and variables left for me to find out what really happened or happens.

Sorry for my last minute edit.

There's only three sunburst Les Paul's played by the Stones:

1) The 1959 Bigsby Burst, or Keith Burst. Played by Keith in 1965, most noticeable on the TAMI show, sold or given to Taylor in 1967, used on the 1969 tour in open G, dissapeared completely from the Stones camp in late 1970. Traded in the 1970's, auctioned by Christies in 2004, sold to a collector in 2006. This guitar is now in the MET.

2) Mick Taylor's 1958 Les Paul (plain top, two black humbuckers), used sparsely on the 1971 tour, and his only guitar on the 1972 tour and 3) Keith's 1959 Burst, regognizable by the claw-like stripes in the top between the covered PAF's. Used by Richards on the 1972 tour, and by Taylor on the 1973 European tour. Both these guitars were in the hands of Taylor from 1979 to 1983, when he sold both to a London guitar shop. The 1958 is now at the Hard Rock Cafe, the 1959 is in private hands.

For complexity: it is not sure if the Les Paul on the cover of Ya Ya's is the 1958 Burst. It could very well be, as the Stones spent their time shopping guitars in New York when they had the days off between 16 and 24 November 1969. Keith bought a ES-355 for example, and Taylor could have bought the Burst. But, Taylor has stated he bought the Burst as replacement for the missing Bigsby Burst.

Another one: Taylor played a Les Paul on the Winter Tour 1973 that looks diffent to the 1958 or 1959 Bursts. The colour has some purple in it, it is darker, and it still had the pickguard bracket on. This could be a rental, or it is the 1958 Burst that changed color in a year of heavy use, not uncommon for the thin nitro finishes.

Last: in an interview with tech Ted Newman Jones he states that Keith 'has a dozen Les Paul's at home'. And also that Keith threw one down a flight of stairs in anger, destroying it.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-08-11 12:31 by Mathijs.

Taylor is not famous for his business skills, but if he got ripped off, I hope he gets compensation for the'58 Keith Burst that disappeared at the time. Seems mission impossible to me though, even if he can prove it got stolen from him. Too complicated over time.

1) The 1959 Bigsby Burst, or Keith Burst. Played by Keith in 1965, most noticeable on the TAMI show, sold or given to Taylor in 1967, used on the 1969 tour in open G, dissapeared completely from the Stones camp in late 1970. Traded in the 1970's, auctioned by Christies in 2004, sold to a collector in 2006. This guitar is now in the MET.


Mathijs[/quote]

Initially MT said it had "disappeared" but the latest word coming from the MT camp is that it is the above guitar bought from KR through Ian Stewart in 1967 and that it was stolen at Nellcote in 1971.

[www.smithsonianmag.com]

So many inconsistencies and questions:.

KR was interviewed in front of that guitar and surely he would have raised the question if it had been stolen.

How did it get in the hands of Adrian Miller? (any relation to Jimmy Miller?)

Does the forgotten at the train station theory have any credibility?

Or, if it was stolen at Nellcote as MT claims is it really a theft? The people who took the instruments were owed money for drugs so it could be considered as payment.

Why is MT raising the issue now? The guitar has been very public for a few decades. If you are going to make allegations you better have some proof and/or some witnesses.

I get the sense it is more sour grapes and grievance politics from MT without much substantiation. Much like claiming credits for songs decades after the fact or feeling ripped off because the RS used his "likeness" in the Exhibition show



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025-08-11 21:26 by wavelength.

It also depends on the character of the guitarist. Mike Stern's telecaster (Brecker Brothers) got stolen by an armed robbery and he traced the thief. He put a gun against his head and said: "If you don't tell me where my guitar is I blow your head off". Problem solved.

(Other sources say the Tele never showed up again).

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wavelength

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1) The 1959 Bigsby Burst, or Keith Burst. Played by Keith in 1965, most noticeable on the TAMI show, sold or given to Taylor in 1967, used on the 1969 tour in open G, dissapeared completely from the Stones camp in late 1970. Traded in the 1970's, auctioned by Christies in 2004, sold to a collector in 2006. This guitar is now in the MET.


Mathijs

Initially MT said it had "disappeared" but the latest word coming from the MT camp is that it is the above guitar bought from KR through Ian Stewart in 1967 and that it was stolen at Nellcote in 1971.

[www.smithsonianmag.com]

So many inconsistencies and questions:.

KR was interviewed in front of that guitar and surely he would have raised the question if it had been stolen.

How did it get in the hands of Adrian Miller? (any relation to Jimmy Miller?)

Does the forgotten at the train station theory have any credibility?

Or, if it was stolen at Nellcote as MT claims is it really a theft? The people who took the instruments were owed money for drugs so it could be considered as payment.

Why is MT raising the issue now? The guitar has been very public for a few decades. If you are going to make allegations you better have some proof and/or some witnesses.

I get the sense it is more sour grapes and grievance politics from MT without much substantiation. Much like claiming credits for songs decades after the fact or feeling ripped off because the RS used his "likeness" in the Exhibition show

Perhaps Taylor is confusing it with another guitar. He hasn’t issued any comment just his girlfriend has.


Taylor raised awareness of his promised credits while he was still in the band. He has also never claimed he was cut out in a malicious manner; he said something like “I just don’t think it was something they bothered about ensuring.”

Richards actually had a great quote about Taylor from a conversation with Bob Dylan: he said Taylor is full of great ideas he just lacks the drive.


Now he’s dating somebody with a lot of drive it seems!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-08-12 02:04 by TravelinMan.

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Mathijs
If this is the same guitar that's on the cover of Ya Ya's is not entirely sure -Taylor has stated that he bought this one to replace the 'missing' Keith burst (with the Bigsby), and the earliest picture of him using it is on the 1971 tour.

Mathijs

I have this picture dated as June 1970, Olympic Studio, whilst recording Stop Breaking Down. If this date is true, Taylor's 1958 Les Paul is the Ya Ya's guitar with the cover picture shot on June 7, 1970.



Olympic Stuido, June 1970

Mathijs

WOW! Great pic.

Is that an Echoplex and a Tele? I remember Taylor saying Jimmy Miller liked to use a tape echo, but it wasn't an Echoplex. I can't recall the name.

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TravelinMan
WOW! Great pic.

Is that an Echoplex and a Tele? I remember Taylor saying Jimmy Miller liked to use a tape echo, but it wasn't an Echoplex. I can't recall the name.

I think it is a WEM Watkins Copycat, which was the standard in the UK at the time. Taylor used a Tele for slide work at the time, and there's a pic of him with a slide on his pinky and a capo on the 2nd fret, which could indicate Stop Breaking Down.

There were some more pics from these sessions on this board, with a black guy jamming along. Those pictures were dated as being May 1970.

Mathijs

Lately, most days, I wonder why I still come to this forum but then a picture like this one pops up and makes me so happy.

Mathijs, I appreciate you.

And here's the 1958 Les Paul at Newcastle City Hall, March 4 1971. The guitar still had the original tuners.

Mathijs

Thanks for the excellent pics.

If only some kind soul has a reel of those Newcastle shows…

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
WOW! Great pic.

Is that an Echoplex and a Tele? I remember Taylor saying Jimmy Miller liked to use a tape echo, but it wasn't an Echoplex. I can't recall the name.

I think it is a WEM Watkins Copycat, which was the standard in the UK at the time. Taylor used a Tele for slide work at the time, and there's a pic of him with a slide on his pinky and a capo on the 2nd fret, which could indicate Stop Breaking Down.

There were some more pics from these sessions on this board, with a black guy jamming along. Those pictures were dated as being May 1970.

Mathijs

Your knowledge of the Stones is very impressive.You should write a book.

Never a dull moment with Taylor on "Stop breaking down". No capo, same key. Enjoy.

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TheflyingDutchman
Never a dull moment with Taylor on "Stop breaking down". No capo, same key. Enjoy.

Its just so fantastic how he makes the notes bloom, and then end in that fantastic vibrato. Pure brilliance.

Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman
Never a dull moment with Taylor on "Stop breaking down". No capo, same key. Enjoy.

This is fantastic, I’ve never seen this before. Thanks for posting it

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
WOW! Great pic.

Is that an Echoplex and a Tele? I remember Taylor saying Jimmy Miller liked to use a tape echo, but it wasn't an Echoplex. I can't recall the name.

I think it is a WEM Watkins Copycat, which was the standard in the UK at the time. Taylor used a Tele for slide work at the time, and there's a pic of him with a slide on his pinky and a capo on the 2nd fret, which could indicate Stop Breaking Down.

There were some more pics from these sessions on this board, with a black guy jamming along. Those pictures were dated as being May 1970.

Mathijs

Taj Mahal:

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automaticchanger

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
WOW! Great pic.

Is that an Echoplex and a Tele? I remember Taylor saying Jimmy Miller liked to use a tape echo, but it wasn't an Echoplex. I can't recall the name.

I think it is a WEM Watkins Copycat, which was the standard in the UK at the time. Taylor used a Tele for slide work at the time, and there's a pic of him with a slide on his pinky and a capo on the 2nd fret, which could indicate Stop Breaking Down.

There were some more pics from these sessions on this board, with a black guy jamming along. Those pictures were dated as being May 1970.

Mathijs

Taj Mahal:

Are these photos from the sessions that produced Shine A Light.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-08-24 04:32 by Taylor1.

Maybe not the exact same day but I believe the same sessions, yes. You can hear the WEM copicat tape echo at the beginning of the song and throughout Taylor's lead part, and tonally it doesn't sound too dissimilar from Stop Breaking Down. I know Taylor is on record stating that he played bass on Shine A Light, but it's entirely possible he replaced Wyman's part at a later date, like how Keith did for Casino Boogie and Soul Survivor.

With Taylor.

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automaticchanger
Maybe not the exact same day but I believe the same sessions, yes. You can hear the WEM copicat tape echo at the beginning of the song and throughout Taylor's lead part, and tonally it doesn't sound too dissimilar from Stop Breaking Down. I know Taylor is on record stating that he played bass on Shine A Light, but it's entirely possible he replaced Wyman's part at a later date, like how Keith did for Casino Boogie and Soul Survivor.

There’s a 1970 outtake version (not the Leon Russell version), but I haven’t listened in a while. I can’t recall if the guitar and/or bass is different or just mixed differently.

Wyman probably played bass on the Leon Russell version, and MT on the Jagger/Preston version in 1970.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-09-11 18:50 by TravelinMan.

Some decent free TV on tonight here in the UK on the ‘sky arts’ channel.id have stuck a screenshot of the listing on here but I don’t know how to

21.00 The Rolling Stones Live at The Marquee
The Rolling Stones perform at London's legendary Marquee club in March 1971, showcasing tracks from their then-upcoming album Sticky Fingers. Some fantastic prime era Mick Taylor

22.00 Chuck Berry - The King of Rock & Roll
Film from award-winner Jon Brewer granting unprecedented access into the life of the rock icon. Featuring John Lennon and Alice Cooper.

Those pics are fantastic