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HMS
The Stones arent the type of group to have a guitar-player step into the spotlight and do a three-minute-plus solo, they arent Deep Purple. They are a unit. Everybody contributes to their sound, it´s not about soloing (did Charlie ever a drum-solo? No.). With Ronnie they found back to the ancient art of weaving, interplay is more important than starring. It´s the riffs and the licks and the weaving. That is what the Stones are all about. No super-guitar-hero needed to create "memorable moments".

Super-guitar-hero solos ala Deep Purple are obviously not what I was referring to.
Many/most of the Stones greatest songs have some form of 'memorable moment' due in part to a great guitar lead (or solo). Whether it was from Brian Jones, Keith, Mick Taylor, Wayne Perkins, or Harvey Mandel, each one of these guitar players have at least one 'memorable moment' linked with their name because of a great guitar lead (or solo). As for Ronnie....I can't think of any absolute 'memorable moment'. Granted, a majority of the tunes since '82 are inferior to begin with, so no amount of 'memorable moments' could have helped them.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-26 20:21 by Hairball.

This thread inevitably winds its way around to denigrating Ron Woods guitar skills in comparison to Mick Taylor's. The band wrote and performed differently when Taylor was in the band, it's as simple as that. If they wanted the same sound that Taylor provided, they would have gone with someone who sounded just like him. Ronnie Woods has been universally praised in these last few tours, deservedly so. He is well regarded by his peers and brings a joyful presence to their stage performances. In his 40 plus years with The Rollings Stones, he has had his ups and downs, as have all of the band members. But he was never just Keith's drug buddy or a poor substitute for Mick Taylor. He has made his own mark on songs like Hey Negrita, Neighbors, and Undercover of the Night. That these songs have not been as popular as the band's earlier works is not RW's fault.

For those that want to discuss RW's soloing, there is this thread:

[www.iorr.org]

peace out...

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latebloomer
This thread inevitably winds its way around to denigrating Ron Woods guitar skills in comparison to Mick Taylor's. The band wrote and performed differently when Taylor was in the band, it's as simple as that. If they wanted the same sound that Taylor provided, they would have gone with someone who sounded just like him. Ronnie Woods has been universally praised in these last few tours, deservedly so. He is well regarded by his peers and brings a joyful presence to their stage performances. In his 40 plus years with The Rollings Stones, he has had his ups and downs, as have all of the band members. But he was never just Keith's drug buddy or a poor substitute for Mick Taylor. He has made his own mark on songs like Hey Negrita, Neighbors, and Undercover of the Night. That these songs have not been as popular as the band's earlier works is not RW's fault.

For those that want to discuss RW's soloing, there is this thread:

[www.iorr.org]

peace out...

Awesome post, one of the few worthy of reading in this thread.

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Hairball

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HMS
The Stones arent the type of group to have a guitar-player step into the spotlight and do a three-minute-plus solo, they arent Deep Purple. They are a unit. Everybody contributes to their sound, it´s not about soloing (did Charlie ever a drum-solo? No.). With Ronnie they found back to the ancient art of weaving, interplay is more important than starring. It´s the riffs and the licks and the weaving. That is what the Stones are all about. No super-guitar-hero needed to create "memorable moments".

Super-guitar-hero solos ala Deep Purple are obviously not what I was referring to.
Many/most of the Stones greatest songs have some form of 'memorable moment' due in part to a great guitar lead (or solo). Whether it was from Brian Jones, Keith, Mick Taylor, Wayne Perkins, or Harvey Mandel, each one of these guitar players have at least one 'memorable moment' linked with their name because of a great guitar lead (or solo). As for Ronnie....I can't think of any absolute 'memorable moment'. Granted, a majority of the tunes since '82 are inferior to begin with, so no amount of 'memorable moments' could have helped them.

There are lots of brilliant guitar playing of Ron on Sticky Fingers Live 2015 and Totally Stripped. Too many songs and solos to name them.I guess you do not or do not want to listen.

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jambay

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latebloomer
This thread inevitably winds its way around to denigrating Ron Woods guitar skills in comparison to Mick Taylor's. The band wrote and performed differently when Taylor was in the band, it's as simple as that. If they wanted the same sound that Taylor provided, they would have gone with someone who sounded just like him. Ronnie Woods has been universally praised in these last few tours, deservedly so. He is well regarded by his peers and brings a joyful presence to their stage performances. In his 40 plus years with The Rollings Stones, he has had his ups and downs, as have all of the band members. But he was never just Keith's drug buddy or a poor substitute for Mick Taylor. He has made his own mark on songs like Hey Negrita, Neighbors, and Undercover of the Night. That these songs have not been as popular as the band's earlier works is not RW's fault.

For those that want to discuss RW's soloing, there is this thread:

[www.iorr.org]

peace out...

Awesome post, one of the few worthy of reading in this thread.

Praises to Latebloomer, Jambay, ...

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RockingLonestar

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Hairball

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HMS
The Stones arent the type of group to have a guitar-player step into the spotlight and do a three-minute-plus solo, they arent Deep Purple. They are a unit. Everybody contributes to their sound, it´s not about soloing (did Charlie ever a drum-solo? No.). With Ronnie they found back to the ancient art of weaving, interplay is more important than starring. It´s the riffs and the licks and the weaving. That is what the Stones are all about. No super-guitar-hero needed to create "memorable moments".

Super-guitar-hero solos ala Deep Purple are obviously not what I was referring to.
Many/most of the Stones greatest songs have some form of 'memorable moment' due in part to a great guitar lead (or solo). Whether it was from Brian Jones, Keith, Mick Taylor, Wayne Perkins, or Harvey Mandel, each one of these guitar players have at least one 'memorable moment' linked with their name because of a great guitar lead (or solo). As for Ronnie....I can't think of any absolute 'memorable moment'. Granted, a majority of the tunes since '82 are inferior to begin with, so no amount of 'memorable moments' could have helped them.

There are lots of brilliant guitar playing of Ron on Sticky Fingers Live 2015 and Totally Stripped. Too many songs and solos to name them.I guess you do not or do not want to listen.

...and RockingLonestar here.

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latebloomer
This thread inevitably winds its way around to denigrating Ron Woods guitar skills in comparison to Mick Taylor's. The band wrote and performed differently when Taylor was in the band, it's as simple as that. If they wanted the same sound that Taylor provided, they would have gone with someone who sounded just like him. Ronnie Woods has been universally praised in these last few tours, deservedly so. He is well regarded by his peers and brings a joyful presence to their stage performances. In his 40 plus years with The Rollings Stones, he has had his ups and downs, as have all of the band members. But he was never just Keith's drug buddy or a poor substitute for Mick Taylor. He has made his own mark on songs like Hey Negrita, Neighbors, and Undercover of the Night. That these songs have not been as popular as the band's earlier works is not RW's fault.

For those that want to discuss RW's soloing, there is this thread:

[www.iorr.org]

peace out...

So true! Thanks, latebloomer

Taylor found some decent notes but he always looked like a guest, which ultimately is bad for business. Image is important. The Stones could’ve been even bigger than they were had they snagged Ronnie earlier.

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Swayed1967
Taylor found some decent notes but he always looked like a guest, which ultimately is bad for business. Image is important. The Stones could’ve been even bigger than they were had they snagged Ronnie earlier.

Rubbish.

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alimente

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Swayed1967
Taylor found some decent notes but he always looked like a guest, which ultimately is bad for business. Image is important. The Stones could’ve been even bigger than they were had they snagged Ronnie earlier.

Rubbish.

I think Swayed1967 is right.

Ronnie Wood is an excellent guitarist. I was listening to Debris live and it was great. He was great in the Faces. Unfortunately he had to play what Mick and Keith wrote with very little chance to do his own interpretations of thier songs. He is a great song writer as well that does not get many opportunities in the Stones. Folks always want to compare him with Taylor who is a phenomal guitarist and always has been. This is a tired discussion who's better etc. Doesn't matter in 2016. Two completely different styles and players.Lets stop making this a competition. I love the Taylor era and was thrilled when he came back for abbreviated performances. But Ronnie is there and has been for decades I was fortunate to see the Stones in Philly in 1969. They were incredilbe. I've also seen many shows with Ronnie Wood. Two completely different era's and styles. No more no less. Let's move on.

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HMS

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alimente

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Swayed1967
Taylor found some decent notes but he always looked like a guest, which ultimately is bad for business. Image is important. The Stones could’ve been even bigger than they were had they snagged Ronnie earlier.

Rubbish.

I think Swayed1967 is right.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the fact remains Taylor's young energy helped revitalize the Stones and take them to new heights. It was during Taylor's tenure they became The Greatest Rock & Roll Band in the World. I'm not here to diss RW, but facts are facts.

BTW, Dirty Work is subpar songs with garbage production. It's like they wanted to sound like ACDC through a hair metal filter. Ugh.

Keeping in mind that this is a Mick Taylor thread, the comparisons and Ronnie 'bashing' usually pop up after there's a continuous attack on MT - not only his playing but also as a person.
When these repetitive attacks on MT become monotonous and redundant, it's only natural to point out the differences between other members of the band - warts and all.
As I stated previously, Ronnie's a fun guy, a great rhythm guitar player, and 'weaves' great with Keith, but his lead guitar playing with the Stones when compared to others leaves a lot to be desired IMO. There are absolutely no 'memorable moment' guitar leads or solos that he will be remembered for and that will set him apart from the rest IMO. Sure he's played some decent leads and solos sporadically over 40 years in a live setting, but I'd be hard pressed to single out any of them as a 'memorable moment' without listening to hundreds of hours of recordings. With that said, Ronnie's a Rolling Stone, and for better or worse that's all there is to it.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the fact remains Taylor's young energy helped revitalize the Stones and take them to new heights. It was during Taylor's tenure they became The Greatest Rock & Roll Band in the World. I'm not here to diss RW, but facts are facts.

They revitalized themselves with LIB (imo their best album btw) and MT´s contribution to that album is very small. The combined talents of J/R made them the Greatest R n R band, not MT´s guitar playing. The rocket went up during MT´s tenure, but he wasnt the pilot, he was one of the stewards. And remember the rocket lost height after Exile, although MT was still on board... Ronnie´s appearance had very refreshing effects, that also is fact.

I love Ronnie, but Ronnie in the Stones is largely Keith Jr. That's fine because that's what Jagger & Richards wanted. It is true that Taylor's contributions to LET IT BLEED were minimal. It is not true of the 1969 tour or any tour while he was a member of the band. His contributions to EXILE are not as jaw-dropping as on STICKY FINGERS (with the exception of Side Four of EXILE where Taylor shines). On GOATS HEAD SOUP, he's the only actual band member to make a substantial musical contribution. Keith, while still creative as a songwriter, was severely limited musically on GOATS HEAD SOUP. His bass on "Heartbreaker" is really his only standout moment. Keith and Taylor had what I would term a competitive chemistry as guitar players. You hear it on "Bitch" and "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?" I would even say Taylor's decision to blow Keith out of the water musically on "All Down the Line" and especially "Time Waits For No One" is another example. It may not be the friendly weaving that made 1978-1982 memorable, but it remains an artistic high for the band. From a guitar perspective, Keith and Ronnie on DIRTY WORK do an outstanding job, but most of the songs are poor, most of the production is dreadful, most of the lead vocals are terrible. If we're honest, the guitars that sound so impressive could easily be cut and paste jobs. They do not grow from the melody of the tracks. Rather it is the sound of Keith and Ronnie playing well together and is similar in that respect to what you hear on studio jams and even Keith's solo albums. It is a different beast altogether from what Keith and Taylor had. It truly is apples and oranges and comparisons are pointless in that respect.

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HMS

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alimente

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Swayed1967
Taylor found some decent notes but he always looked like a guest, which ultimately is bad for business. Image is important. The Stones could’ve been even bigger than they were had they snagged Ronnie earlier.

Rubbish.

I think Swayed1967 is right.

Now THAT does not surprise me at all.

not sure MT decided to play what he did on the tracks you mention in order to 'blow Keith out of the water'..

it may have been what Keith wanted..especially on ADTL

..TWFNO - not sure Keith even had much input on that..

but what great playing!

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HMS

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the fact remains Taylor's young energy helped revitalize the Stones and take them to new heights. It was during Taylor's tenure they became The Greatest Rock & Roll Band in the World. I'm not here to diss RW, but facts are facts.

They revitalized themselves with LIB (imo their best album btw) and MT´s contribution to that album is very small. The combined talents of J/R made them the Greatest R n R band, not MT´s guitar playing. The rocket went up during MT´s tenure, but he wasnt the pilot, he was one of the stewards. And remember the rocket lost height after Exile, although MT was still on board... Ronnie´s appearance had very refreshing effects, that also is fact.

They revitalized themselves with JJF and Beggar's Banquet. These recordings set the tone for things to come in the following years. And Taylor was the right man at the time to transfer all this to a live concert setting (and his contributions in the studio weren't too shabby either!). You simply cannot imagine how important it was at the time to have a virtuoso guitar player in the band if you weren't there when it all actually happened when people started to actually listen to the music being played in live shows. Image alone could not help you if you weren't able to deliver the goods. Ronnie was the right guy in the musical climate of the second half of the 70's when a more rough and raw sound became all the rage again (like in the early until mid-60's).

Noone doubts that Ronnie's appearance had very refreshing effects, but the same must be said about Taylor's appearance.

I see it like this: In creative terms, the Stones had 5 good years with Brian, 5 good years with Taylor and 5 good years with Ronnie. Roughly 5 years in each case, give or take a year or two. After these 5 year periods, each and every one of them was creatively spent.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-27 22:05 by alimente.

Swayed1967
<Taylor found some decent notes but he always looked like a guest, which ultimately is bad for business. Image is important. The Stones could’ve been even bigger than they were had they snagged Ronnie earlier.>

Not sure I totally agree but I've often thought the Stones would have still done pretty well had Ronnie joined in 1969. It's true that Mick and Keith were the driving force for the success during the Taylor era, not Taylor himself. On the other hand, songs like Time Waits For No One, Sway, Moonlight Mile, Knocking probably wouldn't have happened without Taylor.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Jagger and Taylor wrote songs together that Richards got credit for. We can debate how much/if Taylor deserved writing credit or not, but the fact remains there were songs that the two worked on together. The Jagger/Taylor writing team was a unique aspect to the Taylor period.

Angie, Coming Down Again and Star Star were not substantial?

IMO, the guitar playing was excellent on those tracks, and they were among the best ones on the album.

Keith plays the first short solo + the rhythm guitar on TWFNO.

I have only heard about Mick and Taylor developed some songs Mick had written together, not that they were a writing team. I doubt that they were.

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DandelionPowderman
Angie, Coming Down Again and Star Star were not substantial?

IMO, the guitar playing was excellent on those tracks, and they were among the best ones on the album.

Keith plays the first short solo + the rhythm guitar on TWFNO.

I have only heard about Mick and Taylor developed some songs Mick had written together, not that they were a writing team. I doubt that they were.

That's probably right. Taylor was more of an idea contributor in terms of arrangements and such than actually writing substantial parts of songs. Just my guessination...

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

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DandelionPowderman
Angie, Coming Down Again and Star Star were not substantial?

IMO, the guitar playing was excellent on those tracks, and they were among the best ones on the album.

Keith plays the first short solo + the rhythm guitar on TWFNO.

I have only heard about Mick and Taylor developed some songs Mick had written together, not that they were a writing team. I doubt that they were.

thats Keith right before the first verse?

always thought it was Taylor...!

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duke richardson

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DandelionPowderman
Angie, Coming Down Again and Star Star were not substantial?

IMO, the guitar playing was excellent on those tracks, and they were among the best ones on the album.

Keith plays the first short solo + the rhythm guitar on TWFNO.

I have only heard about Mick and Taylor developed some songs Mick had written together, not that they were a writing team. I doubt that they were.

thats Keith right before the first verse?

always thought it was Taylor...!

My part on our version

[www.youtube.com]

hear a vtenuous bit of Taylor influence in this?

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HMS

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the fact remains Taylor's young energy helped revitalize the Stones and take them to new heights. It was during Taylor's tenure they became The Greatest Rock & Roll Band in the World. I'm not here to diss RW, but facts are facts.

They revitalized themselves with LIB (imo their best album btw) and MT´s contribution to that album is very small. The combined talents of J/R made them the Greatest R n R band, not MT´s guitar playing. The rocket went up during MT´s tenure, but he wasnt the pilot, he was one of the stewards. And remember the rocket lost height after Exile, although MT was still on board... Ronnie´s appearance had very refreshing effects, that also is fact.

I'd say they revived themselves (if indeed they even needed to do that) with Beggar's Banquet and the 'Jumping Jack Flash' single. Believe it or not Brian Jones was in on that to a degree and Mick Taylor was not around.

But I dig Mick Taylor...great for the Stones during the 1970-1973/4 period (and including the late 1969 American tour where he established himself as lead guitarist). And, of course, Ronnie Wood suited the Stones late 70s through the 1980s period (and works well for the Stones during the current touring period).

I don't see a problem with either Taylor or Wood working with the Stones post 1969.

It's time to face that ALL the guitarists in the Stones have been vital and important for the band – in its different stages.

The fact that one prefers one of the guitarists shouldn't overshadow the others' importance, imo.

We've got the Brian years, the lovely 1969-1973 Taylor years, the weaving between 1977-1983, the comeback years 1989-2007 and the greatest hits years 2012-present.

It could be worse...

This is the most intelligent unbiased post on this subject after 194 pages! Thankss for that!

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DandelionPowderman
Angie, Coming Down Again and Star Star were not substantial?

IMO, the guitar playing was excellent on those tracks, and they were among the best ones on the album.

Keith plays the first short solo + the rhythm guitar on TWFNO.

I have only heard about Mick and Taylor developed some songs Mick had written together, not that they were a writing team. I doubt that they were.

Is that not a writing team? At least that's the definition in Nashville!

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman
Angie, Coming Down Again and Star Star were not substantial?

IMO, the guitar playing was excellent on those tracks, and they were among the best ones on the album.

Keith plays the first short solo + the rhythm guitar on TWFNO.

I have only heard about Mick and Taylor developed some songs Mick had written together, not that they were a writing team. I doubt that they were.

Is that not a writing team? At least that's the definition in Nashville!

"Some songs Mick had written", hence it's arranging.

I doubt you'll be happy if a Nashville hack added a guitar track on a song you had written, claiming 50 percent of the songwriting credit..