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bobo
Strange how such a «fantastic» guitar player more or less never really achived anything after leaving Stones. Well…he did that Dylan tour in 84 and sounded awful….and some other less known stuff for the average rock music fan.

It is not strange at all! He needs adequate counterparts because he is notcapable of writing great material, and if the musicians in his band do not match him he is not such a wonderful guitar player as he was in the Stones. No offence here, but IMHO he really needs the challenge which he found in the Stones.

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saltoftheearth

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bobo
Strange how such a «fantastic» guitar player more or less never really achived anything after leaving Stones. Well…he did that Dylan tour in 84 and sounded awful….and some other less known stuff for the average rock music fan.

It is not strange at all! He needs adequate counterparts because he is notcapable of writing great material, and if the musicians in his band do not match him he is not such a wonderful guitar player as he was in the Stones. No offence here, but IMHO he really needs the challenge which he found in the Stones.

I'd have to agree with that.

MT is a supremely talented guitar player with a fantastic feel for melody ...but his musicianship needs to be guided and focused by his fellow musicians to get the best from it.

MT's studio work with the Stones is sublime ...as is much of his live work with the band.

...but all too often on stage he'd get carried away and would overplay to the detriment of the performance as a whole.

MT's endless noodling is a hundred times better than anything I could ever play on guitar, but that's not the point !

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saltoftheearth

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bobo
Strange how such a «fantastic» guitar player more or less never really achived anything after leaving Stones. Well…he did that Dylan tour in 84 and sounded awful….and some other less known stuff for the average rock music fan.

It is not strange at all! He needs adequate counterparts because he is notcapable of writing great material, and if the musicians in his band do not match him he is not such a wonderful guitar player as he was in the Stones. No offence here, but IMHO he really needs the challenge which he found in the Stones.

Eh, you give Broken Hands, Alabama, Leather Jacket etc to Jagger to perform and suddenly they're excellent songs. Taylor has a solid voice, but it isn't up to the level of Jagger, who is one of the all-time greats.

Jagger can make his own pedestrian material sound like classics. That's why people often fail when trying to cover their material.

<Leather Jacket to Jagger to perform and suddenly they're excellent songs>

That may be true. However, Jagger already had Leather Jacket, and they chose not to proceed with it.





[www.youtube.com]

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Spud

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saltoftheearth

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bobo
Strange how such a «fantastic» guitar player more or less never really achived anything after leaving Stones. Well…he did that Dylan tour in 84 and sounded awful….and some other less known stuff for the average rock music fan.

It is not strange at all! He needs adequate counterparts because he is notcapable of writing great material, and if the musicians in his band do not match him he is not such a wonderful guitar player as he was in the Stones. No offence here, but IMHO he really needs the challenge which he found in the Stones.

I'd have to agree with that.

MT is a supremely talented guitar player with a fantastic feel for melody ...but his musicianship needs to be guided and focused by his fellow musicians to get the best from it.

MT's studio work with the Stones is sublime ...as is much of his live work with the band.

...but all too often on stage he'd get carried away and would overplay to the detriment of the performance as a whole.

MT's endless noodling is a hundred times better than anything I could ever play on guitar, but that's not the point !

I thought his 'noodling' lifted songs live to higher heights than just 3 minute hits for the radio. Jagger usually cut him off if he went too far with it. Keith stayed in his funky pocket, and Taylor made the song soar.

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DandelionPowderman


That may be true. However, Jagger already had Leather Jacket, and they chose not to proceed with it.





[www.youtube.com]

Correct, as they chose not to with Separately, which was co-written with Keith Richards. That isn't to say these songs wouldn't have been used on a future album like Tattoo You if Taylor hadn't quit.

The fact is, Taylor didn't really start writing his own songs en masse until after he left the Stones. When asked about a solo album, he said he wasn't ready during an interview during the IORR sessions.

I agree. I saw The Faces on their farewell tour in the fall of 1975. I was front row, standing right against the stage. Super energy. The band was really having a gas, lots of group interaction. At point someone next to me offered Rod Stewart a bottle of Southern Comfort and he actually took a swig. Ron Wood was great and having lots of fun (Jesse Ed Davis was also on guitar.) I get the sense he was much more self-realized in the Faces. He had all the musical lattitude he wanted. He came up with a rather unique guitar sound: a kind of scratchy metallic distortion when he played. His slide playing was decent and some of his lead playing was competent. If you listen to the Faces live album Coast to Coast the lead on I Wish it Would Rain or I'd Rather go Blind if not virtuoso it is coherent.

In the Stones he had to ditch his playing style and change his sound. Live anyhow his solos really suffered. The only good solo he has come up with is the solo on Wild Horses in 1975. It is structured. Otherwise his solos seem random or a poor copy of a MT solo when playing material of that era. Has anyone heard his latest solo on Tumbling Dice at 2:36

[m.youtube.com]

People are actually paying big money to hear that!

RW made a significant musical contribution to the RS but a great guitar player he is not. In fact after Mick Taylor left and was replaced by Ron Wood Keith Richards commemted that Ron Wood was not hired for his guitar playing skills.

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PhillyFAN
I saw The Faces decades ago in Philly. I believe RW was great in The Faces. He was his own man and not left to try to play what MT created. He seemed more creative. He was writing songs and creating his own solos.I often wonder how far they would have gone if Rod Stewart didn't go solo and treated The Faces like his touring band and session musicians.Howeve RW joining.the Stones made the Stones a different band.They actually became silly IMO humble. Blow up dolls. Huge inflatable penises popping out of the stage.Gimmics. Even MJ vocals during the 1975 tour seems to be barking out the lyrics. However they remained a top band. MJ was once said "people thought MT version of the Rolling Stones was the best version". He was asked what did he think. He said I can't answer that because it would trash the current version of the band. Honestly I am happy they are still touring and pray.they continue.I realize these are now older people and not 1973. God bless them.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-16 05:16 by wavelength.

I remember the Pay Per View from New Jersey in 2012. Ron was smokin'. He was showing the others how it was done. He is also the heart and soul guitar wise behind Blue and Lonesome. Ron is great, but not great like Mick Taylor. I think he is what kept them going on stage in recent years, until this tour, when his health seems a bit ragged.

Ron has never been a gunslinger. Not in the upper echelon. Doesn't really have a distinctive style you'd recognize straight off. But he's what the Stones needed. Keith's playing spent a lot of time in the wilderness this past decade. It's finally coming around and Ron's fades a bit. I guess that's how you weave.

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24FPS
I remember the Pay Per View from New Jersey in 2012. Ron was smokin'. He was showing the others how it was done. He is also the heart and soul guitar wise behind Blue and Lonesome. Ron is great, but not great like Mick Taylor. I think he is what kept them going on stage in recent years, until this tour, when his health seems a bit ragged.

Ron has never been a gunslinger. Not in the upper echelon. Doesn't really have a distinctive style you'd recognize straight off. But he's what the Stones needed. Keith's playing spent a lot of time in the wilderness this past decade. It's finally coming around and Ron's fades a bit. I guess that's how you weave.

maybe its a matter of perspective but i think ronnie has a very distinctive sound and playing style

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saltoftheearth

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bobo
Strange how such a «fantastic» guitar player more or less never really achived anything after leaving Stones. Well…he did that Dylan tour in 84 and sounded awful….and some other less known stuff for the average rock music fan.

It is not strange at all! He needs adequate counterparts because he is notcapable of writing great material, and if the musicians in his band do not match him he is not such a wonderful guitar player as he was in the Stones. No offence here, but IMHO he really needs the challenge which he found in the Stones.

Just as anything in life, it's 10% talent and 90% hard work. And Taylor has always failed in doing the hard work. He is always described as incredibly lazy, and then the drugs took quite a good part of him.

Mathijs

I find MT life narrative really haunting and tragic in many ways. In spite of his incredible talents he became his own worst enemy, a victim of his self-destructve personality.

I always though his life story would be the good subject for a play. A man sitting alone in a bar drinking, reflecting upon his musical and personal life. He would be an old man and people from his past would drift in and out and have conversations which would relive the major events in his life and through which one could get a true sense of his personality.

He obviously has a lot of contempt for the Stones. The resentment from remaining band members is now mutual after the last reunion in 2014. They will never play together again.

I wish he would write an honest biography of his life experience but that will never happen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-16 16:15 by wavelength.

<He obviously has a lot of contempt for the Stones. The resentment from remaining band members is now mutual after the last reunion in 2013. The will never play together again>

I'm not so sure Taylor himself has any contempt for the Stones. The last reunion was in 2014, btw. I'm not so sure any of the Stones have anything bad to say about Taylor, either.

So, no, it's not obvious

I think that any resentment following the 2013/2014 MT appearances was maybe due to thoughtlessness rather than malice.

MT may have hoped that he would effectively be welcomed back more as a full member of he band... and may have been disappointed when the arrangements for him didn't quite reflect his expectations.

The natural result of this is hurt on one side and a sense of "Who the f*** does he think he is ! " on the other.

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Mathijs

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saltoftheearth

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bobo
Strange how such a «fantastic» guitar player more or less never really achived anything after leaving Stones. Well…he did that Dylan tour in 84 and sounded awful….and some other less known stuff for the average rock music fan.

It is not strange at all! He needs adequate counterparts because he is notcapable of writing great material, and if the musicians in his band do not match him he is not such a wonderful guitar player as he was in the Stones. No offence here, but IMHO he really needs the challenge which he found in the Stones.

Just as anything in life, it's 10% talent and 90% hard work. And Taylor has always failed in doing the hard work. He is always described as incredibly lazy, and then the drugs took quite a good part of him.

Mathijs

I don’t think there is anything lazy about his career up until his solo career, which I’m not sure “lazy” is the right word for anyway. In fact, Keith Richards and Ron Wood are much more lazy, they just have the Stones machine to put them where they need to be and when.

I do believe drug addiction (and lack of a producer) delayed Taylor’s debut album and hampered stages of his solo career. He didn’t have the bankroll of the world’s greatest rock n roll band to get him places on private jets and a giant road crew etc. and he still toured pretty solidly for over 20 years.

That’s 20 years grinding across continents, playing in small venues without proper sound men, being asked constantly why he’s playing in some dump instead of an NFL stadium. That’s a true bluesman, a self fulfilling prophecy really.

He has always over the years made snide remarks about the band or his experience being part of it. I am paraphrasing a bit because I don't have the exact quotes in front of me.

"People ask me why I left the RS, but the more astute question would be why did I ever join them".

"I actually liked the Beatles more than the Rolling Stones".

"When I first played with them they sounded like a bad garage band".

"A lot of people come up and praise me for my playing during the 1973 tour (Brussels Affair). Mainly what I remember most is being bored".

"They own houses in the Carribean, I don't".

"They (the RS) are so arrogant, they will probably never retire".

The last time he spoke publicly about the RS was to gripe about the fact that he wasn't properly invited to the Exhibitionism opening in London when RS held off the invitation until it was too late for him to attend. Clearly they did not want him there.

I think his conflict is that he grew to resent the hand that fed him and that he that he is under no illusion that without his tenure in the band his career would not amount to much. He must find that hard to live with.

Since the last reunion, publicly the Stones have never expressed anything negative about MT but privately it must be a different story.

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DandelionPowderman


I'm not so sure Taylor himself has any contempt for the Stones. The last reunion was in 2014, btw. I'm not so sure any of the Stones have anything bad to say about Taylor, either.

So, no, it's not obvious

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-16 16:49 by wavelength.

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wavelength

I think his conflict is that he grew to resent the hand that fed him and that he that he is under no illusion that without his tenure in the band his career would not amount to much. He must find that hard to live with.

His conflicts with Jagger and Richards are all caused by his 'manager'. That's really all there is to say about it.

Mathijs

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TravelinMan

In fact, Keith Richards and Ron Wood are much more lazy, they just have the Stones machine to put them where they need to be and when.

No, they ARE the Stones machine. It's them spending months and months in the studio to write and record. And look at Wood -the moment the Stones aren't touring he immediately organizes some shows with friends, does radio shows and whatever more.

They did Berlin 2 weeks ago, and yesterday Wood did a radio show that he doesn't have to do for any reason other than to keep working.

Taylor never ever had anything of that stamina.

Mathijs

MT hides behind his "manager". His manager may communicate the conflict but the origin of it is undoubtedly MT. The love/hate conflict predates his manager.

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Mathijs

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wavelength

I think his conflict is that he grew to resent the hand that fed him and that he that he is under no illusion that without his tenure in the band his career would not amount to much. He must find that hard to live with.

His conflicts with Jagger and Richards are all caused by his 'manager'. That's really all there is to say about it.

Mathijs

I think MT always felt like an outsider in the band. Definitely did not have the loyalty and commitment that Wood expresses. When MT left, the band really lost something musical that was never compensated by Wood's contribution.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

In fact, Keith Richards and Ron Wood are much more lazy, they just have the Stones machine to put them where they need to be and when.

No, they ARE the Stones machine. It's them spending months and months in the studio to write and record. And look at Wood -the moment the Stones aren't touring he immediately organizes some shows with friends, does radio shows and whatever more.

They did Berlin 2 weeks ago, and yesterday Wood did a radio show that he doesn't have to do for any reason other than to keep working.

Taylor never ever had anything of that stamina.

Mathijs

That's EASY to do when you've got the machine funding MONTHS in a studio! You can show up late, you can make the engineers work in shifts, you can literally drain producers into early retirement, you can be extremely unprofessional and still have people praise your work ethic. $$$$$

Wood took a close look in the mirror and finally got his act together. He did nothing but show up zonked out for 20 years. I'm glad he's doing what he's doing now.

Let's not forget Taylor was always present in the studio (except for that time he had medical leave for surgery) to the point Glyn Johns had to get Jagger to kick him out. He was a studio junky and loved touring. He was depressed when they didn't tour in 1974 and was bored sitting around all the time. He did play as a guest on more records than anyone else in the band during his tenure too.

Let's just say it's a hell of a lot easier to be an addict in the Stones than outside of the Stones.

<He did nothing but show up zonked out for 20 years>

Wrong. He kept doing solo albums and shows, in addition to his day job.

Why are we discussing Ronnie in the Taylor-thread, btw

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TravelinMan

Let's just say it's a hell of a lot easier to be an addict in the Stones than outside of the Stones.

Well, the hard was being NOT a junkie in the Stones

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DandelionPowderman


Wrong. He kept doing solo albums and shows, in addition to his day job.

Why are we discussing Ronnie in the Taylor-thread, btw

I have a close friend that was on the road with the Stones in the 90's. I will not go into details, but he was not "doing his day job" very well.

My point was to draw the comparison between Taylor's aggressive output within the comfort of the Stones camp compared to how tough it was outside of it.

It's well known how long Stones albums took to finish. I find it surprising that knowledgeable fans would say the Stones have a hard work ethic. Charlie and Bill pointed it out all the time. It would take them over a year to do what some bands did in less than a month.

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StonedRambler

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TravelinMan

Let's just say it's a hell of a lot easier to be an addict in the Stones than outside of the Stones.

Well, the hard was being NOT a junkie in the Stones

True!

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman


Wrong. He kept doing solo albums and shows, in addition to his day job.

Why are we discussing Ronnie in the Taylor-thread, btw

I have a close friend that was on the road with the Stones in the 90's. I will not go into details, but he was not "doing his day job" very well.

My point was to draw the comparison between Taylor's aggressive output within the comfort of the Stones camp compared to how tough it was outside of it.

It's well known how long Stones albums took to finish. I find it surprising that knowledgeable fans would say the Stones have a hard work ethic. Charlie and Bill pointed it out all the time. It would take them over a year to do what some bands did in less than a month.

Point taken. However, they kept themselves busy outside of the Stones bubble, too. They didn't have to do that, even though it may have been easier with their Stones connections.

In the 80s, during 'WWIII', Ronnie played the clubs, cruise ships and whatever with rather unknown bands, to put it mildly.

My point is that they might perhaps be more active types of musicians than Taylor, zonked out or not.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman


Wrong. He kept doing solo albums and shows, in addition to his day job.

Why are we discussing Ronnie in the Taylor-thread, btw

I have a close friend that was on the road with the Stones in the 90's. I will not go into details, but he was not "doing his day job" very well.

My point was to draw the comparison between Taylor's aggressive output within the comfort of the Stones camp compared to how tough it was outside of it.

It's well known how long Stones albums took to finish. I find it surprising that knowledgeable fans would say the Stones have a hard work ethic. Charlie and Bill pointed it out all the time. It would take them over a year to do what some bands did in less than a month.

Point taken. However, they kept themselves busy outside of the Stones bubble, too. They didn't have to do that, even though it may have been easier with their Stones connections.

In the 80s, during 'WWIII', Ronnie played the clubs, cruise ships and whatever with rather unknown bands, to put it mildly.

My point is that they might perhaps be more active types of musicians than Taylor, zonked out or not.

Perhaps, but I'm thinking they had the luxury of choice. And I want to be clear, Taylor quit the Stones, so he could have continued that luxury if he wanted. I'm in no way blaming the Stones. Taylor also made it clear in an interview he wasn't interested in joining any band inferior to the Stones, so that doesn't leave a lot of options!

I just think he had to do the seemingly endless club tours around the globe just to scrape by. He never had the cult following like Clapton, which would have given him more solo recording opportunities. It was HARD to get a record done back then as an Indy! Pay the studio, pay the engineers, pay the musicians, find an interested label. Now, we can record one in our bedroom and have somebody dub drums on it in theirs from across the country!

He did get that demo done in the 80's, which I think was pretty promising. It had a sort of Jeff Beck vibe to it, but 80's production. I really like A Stone's Throw; there is absolutely FANTASTIC guitar playing on there, but I think an acoustic piano would have been better than a Rhodes. I guess that's what you get with Max Middleton! I had a huge Stones fan point that out to me years ago and I can't not hear it now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-16 19:12 by TravelinMan.

there was a great mick taylor site a few years ago. micktaylor.net. there was a lot of great info and interviews on that site. does anyone know what happened to it? has any one archibed it by any chance? thx

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wavelength
there was a great mick taylor site a few years ago. micktaylor.net. there was a lot of great info and interviews on that site. does anyone know what happened to it? has any one archibed it by any chance? thx

It's more or less changed in a FB MT fansite run by Iorr.org poster "Gripweed".

Join the party:

[www.facebook.com]

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wavelength
there was a great mick taylor site a few years ago. micktaylor.net. there was a lot of great info and interviews on that site. does anyone know what happened to it? has any one archibed it by any chance? thx

Is it possible to use the Wayback Machine or Internet Archive or something?

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TravelinMan

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wavelength
there was a great mick taylor site a few years ago. micktaylor.net. there was a lot of great info and interviews on that site. does anyone know what happened to it? has any one archibed it by any chance? thx

Is it possible to use the Wayback Machine or Internet Archive or something?

You can. Check it out!