Tell Me :
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Couple things not taken into account in this post, first off most musicians have a window of opportunity of writing their best work, usually before the age of 30, sometimes much younger, Taylor as we know was left with a serious Heroin habit when he left the Stones that took many years away from him creatively and every other way. Not blaming Keith but he kind of eat Taylor up and spat him out in this respect, fortunately Ronnie was strong enough to go the course until now but creatively Keith swallowed Ronnie up too.
Secondly there is no way in hell Mick and Keith would allow Taylor to bring in his own ideas and songs unless Keith went walkabout, absence without leave, and that's exactly what happened, Jagger worked with Taylor in those periods and the results were fantastic and Taylor should have been properly credited on the songs Keith wasn't involved with, no wonder Jagged was pissed off when Taylor left.
Admittedly Taylor is an under achiever and he only has himself to blame for that, it's a pity no one in iorr has explained this part of Taylor's mental make up, why has he done so little with his talents, possibly lack of money to put a quality band together and do great tours.
I really would enjoy someone putting their thoughts towards this aspect of Mick T, it's fascinating in a way more than success, because for the life of me i don't understand how you can be as good as Taylor and do so little about it, he obviously has some issues with getting his act together, Jimmy Page is similar, why has he not replaced Plant with another singer and toured for decades, same sort of lack of drive and confidence.
I think that only MT himself can answer those questions.
That said, is it really true that MT did so little with his talent?
His talent allowed to replace Clapton and Peter Green in Mayall's band when he was only a teenager.
At 20 he joined the Stones to become an integral part of the band.
Almost 10 years after he left the Stones, he was still good enough to be recruited by Bob Dylan. I mean, B O B D Y L A N !!!
How many great guitarists in the world would have traded a testicle to achieve a fraction of what MT obtained in his career!
MT was an hugely talented musician, but couldn't give a damn to develop a flashy guitar-hero style to compete with showmen like Jeff Beck and later Van Halen.
But above all, MT was only an average singer and could not compose any good pop songs.
These ere the only reasons why most people today know who Eric Clapton is but don't know Mick Taylor.
C
Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
There is a Nick Kent interview I have somewhere and Taylor said he expected credit for Time Waits… and that he added ideas to Next Goodbye. Then Kent shows him the writing credits w/out his name and he says “we’ll see about that…” or something to that effect.
I’d have to dig up other interviews but there’s a European one where he mentions Tops as one of the songs. This is the only time I’ve seen him mention it. He also mentioned writing Hide Your Love with Jagger.
I think the point most are making is him underachieving after leaving the Stones, what he did up to the Stones and during his time with them sets up the question why did he underachieve since then.
As for him playing with Bob Dylan he was off the chart brilliant.
Don't really understand why you think he needed anything else as a guitarist, why did he need to be flashy, he's playing is beyond that load of old bollocks.
Song writing apart, ( yeah he clearly isn't a song writer in his own right ), but that shouldn't have prevented him from finding a great singer performer as a foil for him to deliver great live concerts showcasing his Stones related work and some great blues etc. What I've seen of him through the decades live is a little unprofessional, he didn't really try to form his own band, I'm sure if he had he would have sold out Arenas with the right play lists with lots of Stones tracks.
I find this aspect imminently fascinating as well. It is what really draws me to his story. This irreconcilable dissonance between the image of him as a fresh, handsome, immensely talented player and his life's journey. I think the fans of his music like me have created all these expectations of what should have become of him. Clearly he could never live up to those.
It would take a fiction writer to enter into his mind and transpose it and make it understandable. I have always thought that his story would make a great play, an old man reflecting on his life and exchanging dialogue with people and musicians that entered and exited his life.
As Keith Richards once said in Guitar World: “Mick Taylor is a great guitarist, but he found out the hard way that that’s all he is.” It is a condescending, reductionist statement but there is also some painful truth to it.
You can't separate the player from the person. On a most basic level he started his professional career so young and peaked too soon. It must really warp your perspective to achieve that level of fame and fortune so early believing you have the creative potential that leads to a successful solo career only to realize you do not then having to live with that reality. Addiction can really effect your personality, behaviour, judgement and ability to function.
Only he knows his mental and emotional state. He became lost in addiction, depression, self-loathing, lack of purpose.
There really is no rational explanation. Life rarely works out as one would like it to. We should all just accept it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 23:06 by wavelength.
I remember reading an interview with MT. At the end he chided the interviewer telling him that he was stealing material that could be in his (MT) book.
He is all too aware that people are mainly interested in his Rolling Stones period. Maybe the reality of having to revisit that period is too much to bear for him. He constantly gets hounded on the subject and must be so sick of having to answer the "why did you leave the Stones" question.
I would not be in the least surprised if maintaining silence was part of his contract and financial renumeration when he appeared with them last.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 04:43 by wavelength.
But, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what MT tried to do in the 90s, alone (think of "Stranger in this town") or with am established singer (Carla Olson, for example).
Problem is, his act didn't sell out arenas. It could hardly sell out small clubs.
As a consequence, the budget for tour production fell down, and with less money available also the shows became, as you say, unprofessional.
I've seen Taylor play solo many times.
I think he always did what he wanted to do.
But he never really developed as an artist.
C
Agreed, commercially he picked the wrong band, wrong singer, no offence to Carla Olson but she's a million miles away from a rock singer like Mick, and the song choices were bland and not well performed as a band.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 11:15 by Rocktiludrop.
That whole album starts out very strong with Secret Affair and Twisted Sister. The guitar tones and playing throughout are phenomenal.
I remember an interview from the time where Taylor said he had enough material in the can for another album, and yet it’s still unreleased. I believe his PRO is ASCAP and you can see a list of songs he’s submitted but never released on their site.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 19:54 by TravelinMan.
I have buddy who was in Nashville during that time and he said he thought they were dating. Just what I heard.
That explains a lot.
He is not the greatest lyrics writer though
Wood did it, Taylor could have done it too, the truth is that this was not the real reason that pushed Taylor away.
As Taylor himself said, drugs played an important role and at the time the Stones were experiencing a moment of uncertainty regardless of Taylor. Nobody at the time would have bet anything on the Rolling Stones who by all accounts were close to disbanding. This coupled with Taylor's drug problems drove him away, not the credits, which weren't in Taylor's head at the time.
If Taylor really cared about those credits he would get them, there were in fact financial deals between the band and him.
Sorry, I have to call BS here. First of all, trying to compare Taylor and Wood doesn’t work. Wood is older and was in a major band(s) for years. He understood how it worked. Taylor was looked after by elder statesman, John Mayall, who gave him credit when it was due. Taylor was taken care of and then joined the Stones as what, 19/20 year old? Talk about being thrown in the fire.
Secondly, are you totally ignoring the Nick Kent interview where Taylor said Jagger promised him credit? They obviously wrote together without Richards.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 30, 2021 11:49
I think the debate of Taylor as a songwriter has run its course.
He's had 47 years to prove his songwriting abilities after he left. And never once have I heard about Taylor bringing a song to the rest of the band that they could embellish. It was always the other way around.
Taylor was fantastic in terms of embellishing already existing songs - songs that already could be played round the campfire with vocals and an acoustic guitar (or in a train compartment, like Jagger did with Moonlight Mile when he played the entire song – with lyrics and all – for Taylor).
Did Taylor write Till The Next Goodbye? He claims he did. My guess is that he made the "Mexican-esque" double-string motif in the choruses. Maybe it is a Jagger, Richards, Taylor and Simon-tune? Who knows.
However, it could be a good example of a Taylor-contribution anyway - a nice fill that excels the song, but at the same time a disposable part in terms of writing the song. There could have been a different fill there, with horns, by Keith or by backing vocals. The song was still there.
This just speculation, of course (he could have written the D/G/A-chords), but it also paints a picture of songwriting and what one may or may not expect to get a credit for.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 11:50 by DandelionPowderman.
He's had 47 years to prove his songwriting abilities after he left. And never once have I heard about Taylor bringing a song to the rest of the band that they could embellish. It was always the other way around.
Taylor was fantastic in terms of embellishing already existing songs - songs that already could be played round the campfire with vocals and an acoustic guitar (or in a train compartment, like Jagger did with Moonlight Mile when he played the entire song – with lyrics and all – for Taylor).
Did Taylor write Till The Next Goodbye? He claims he did. My guess is that he made the "Mexican-esque" double-string motif in the choruses. Maybe it is a Jagger, Richards, Taylor and Simon-tune? Who knows.
However, it could be a good example of a Taylor-contribution anyway - a nice fill that excels the song, but at the same time a disposable part in terms of writing the song. There could have been a different fill there, with horns, by Keith or by backing vocals. The song was still there.
This just speculation, of course (he could have written the D/G/A-chords), but it also paints a picture of songwriting and what one may or may not expect to get a credit for.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 11:50 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: June 30, 2021 16:56
I'm sure this has been posted on before, but it seems strange that Taylor never cashed in with a book. I wonder if Stones paid him NOT to write one, ha.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: June 30, 2021 17:28
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think the debate of Taylor as a songwriter has run its course.
He's had 47 years to prove his songwriting abilities after he left. And never once have I heard about Taylor bringing a song to the rest of the band that they could embellish. It was always the other way around.
Taylor was fantastic in terms of embellishing already existing songs - songs that already could be played round the campfire with vocals and an acoustic guitar (or in a train compartment, like Jagger did with Moonlight Mile when he played the entire song – with lyrics and all – for Taylor).
Did Taylor write Till The Next Goodbye? He claims he did. My guess is that he made the "Mexican-esque" double-string motif in the choruses. Maybe it is a Jagger, Richards, Taylor and Simon-tune? Who knows.
However, it could be a good example of a Taylor-contribution anyway - a nice fill that excels the song, but at the same time a disposable part in terms of writing the song. There could have been a different fill there, with horns, by Keith or by backing vocals. The song was still there.
This just speculation, of course (he could have written the D/G/A-chords), but it also paints a picture of songwriting and what one may or may not expect to get a credit for.
Couple things not taken into account in this post, first off most musicians have a window of opportunity of writing their best work, usually before the age of 30, sometimes much younger, Taylor as we know was left with a serious Heroin habit when he left the Stones that took many years away from him creatively and every other way. Not blaming Keith but he kind of eat Taylor up and spat him out in this respect, fortunately Ronnie was strong enough to go the course until now but creatively Keith swallowed Ronnie up too.
Secondly there is no way in hell Mick and Keith would allow Taylor to bring in his own ideas and songs unless Keith went walkabout, absence without leave, and that's exactly what happened, Jagger worked with Taylor in those periods and the results were fantastic and Taylor should have been properly credited on the songs Keith wasn't involved with, no wonder Jagged was pissed off when Taylor left.
Admittedly Taylor is an under achiever and he only has himself to blame for that, it's a pity no one in iorr has explained this part of Taylor's mental make up, why has he done so little with his talents, possibly lack of money to put a quality band together and do great tours.
I really would enjoy someone putting their thoughts towards this aspect of Mick T, it's fascinating in a way more than success, because for the life of me i don't understand how you can be as good as Taylor and do so little about it, he obviously has some issues with getting his act together, Jimmy Page is similar, why has he not replaced Plant with another singer and toured for decades, same sort of lack of drive and confidence.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: June 30, 2021 18:40
Quote
Rocktiludrop
I really would enjoy someone putting their thoughts towards this aspect of Mick T, it's fascinating in a way more than success, because for the life of me i don't understand how you can be as good as Taylor and do so little about it, he obviously has some issues with getting his act together, Jimmy Page is similar, why has he not replaced Plant with another singer and toured for decades, same sort of lack of drive and confidence.
I think that only MT himself can answer those questions.
That said, is it really true that MT did so little with his talent?
His talent allowed to replace Clapton and Peter Green in Mayall's band when he was only a teenager.
At 20 he joined the Stones to become an integral part of the band.
Almost 10 years after he left the Stones, he was still good enough to be recruited by Bob Dylan. I mean, B O B D Y L A N !!!
How many great guitarists in the world would have traded a testicle to achieve a fraction of what MT obtained in his career!
MT was an hugely talented musician, but couldn't give a damn to develop a flashy guitar-hero style to compete with showmen like Jeff Beck and later Van Halen.
But above all, MT was only an average singer and could not compose any good pop songs.
These ere the only reasons why most people today know who Eric Clapton is but don't know Mick Taylor.
C
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 30, 2021 18:57
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.
The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.
Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.
The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.
Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: June 30, 2021 19:06
Quote
TravelinMan
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.
The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.
Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.
Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: June 30, 2021 19:12
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
terraplane
The three tracks Mick Taylor says he co-wrote and was promised credit for:
Moonlight Mile
Till The Next Goodbye
Time Waits For No One
He’s said a few different songs in different interviews over the years, and it’s not limited to what you’ve written.
Sway
Can’t You Hear Me Knocking (Coda)
Moonlight Mile
Ventilator Blues
Hide Your Love
Time Waits For No One
Tops
Till the Next… I haven’t read he actually said he helped write that, just that he contributed to it. He never specifically mentioned it like the others.
The only song I've read he expected songwriting credits for is Till The Next Goodbye. So did Carly Simon, btw.
Where did you read that?
I believe the Taylor-quote was in Nick Kent's book (not that he's especially trustworthy).
The Carly Simon-quote has been discussed here before.
It's from the book REBEL, ROCK STAR, RAMBLER, ROGUE by Marc Spitz (on p. 191) the following quote by Carly Simon about Mick:
CARLY SIMON: "We wrote a song together that became a song on the Stones' next album called TILL THE NEXT GOODBYE. I thought that that was going to be a joint venture, but I'd never heard from Mick about how he'd like me to share the royalties. It's the very least I can do to thank Mick for turning what could of been an ordinary record [YOU'RE SO VAIN on which Mick sang backing vocals] into an iconic huge song for me over the years—so, my god, let him take all of my songs and say that he wrote them>
There is a Nick Kent interview I have somewhere and Taylor said he expected credit for Time Waits… and that he added ideas to Next Goodbye. Then Kent shows him the writing credits w/out his name and he says “we’ll see about that…” or something to that effect.
I’d have to dig up other interviews but there’s a European one where he mentions Tops as one of the songs. This is the only time I’ve seen him mention it. He also mentioned writing Hide Your Love with Jagger.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: June 30, 2021 19:23
Quote
liddasQuote
Rocktiludrop
I really would enjoy someone putting their thoughts towards this aspect of Mick T, it's fascinating in a way more than success, because for the life of me i don't understand how you can be as good as Taylor and do so little about it, he obviously has some issues with getting his act together, Jimmy Page is similar, why has he not replaced Plant with another singer and toured for decades, same sort of lack of drive and confidence.
I think that only MT himself can answer those questions.
That said, is it really true that MT did so little with his talent?
His talent allowed to replace Clapton and Peter Green in Mayall's band when he was only a teenager.
At 20 he joined the Stones to become an integral part of the band.
Almost 10 years after he left the Stones, he was still good enough to be recruited by Bob Dylan. I mean, B O B D Y L A N !!!
How many great guitarists in the world would have traded a testicle to achieve a fraction of what MT obtained in his career!
MT was an hugely talented musician, but couldn't give a damn to develop a flashy guitar-hero style to compete with showmen like Jeff Beck and later Van Halen.
But above all, MT was only an average singer and could not compose any good pop songs.
These ere the only reasons why most people today know who Eric Clapton is but don't know Mick Taylor.
C
I think the point most are making is him underachieving after leaving the Stones, what he did up to the Stones and during his time with them sets up the question why did he underachieve since then.
As for him playing with Bob Dylan he was off the chart brilliant.
Don't really understand why you think he needed anything else as a guitarist, why did he need to be flashy, he's playing is beyond that load of old bollocks.
Song writing apart, ( yeah he clearly isn't a song writer in his own right ), but that shouldn't have prevented him from finding a great singer performer as a foil for him to deliver great live concerts showcasing his Stones related work and some great blues etc. What I've seen of him through the decades live is a little unprofessional, he didn't really try to form his own band, I'm sure if he had he would have sold out Arenas with the right play lists with lots of Stones tracks.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: June 30, 2021 19:59
For the Mayall and Stones years Mick Taylor surely achieved great success. Pick any Bluesbreakers record with MT, or Stones records with MT and you find great examples of why his peers and fans were floored by his vibrato. All one has to do is read all the You Tube comments about Mick Taylor and his legacy is forever. Yes from 1985 to present he could of done more but I think he has achieved more then most 2nd guitarists in a rock band ever achieve. He got to travel the world and play with great musicians, most of us go through life punching in and out and hanging onto our jobs in the corporate world.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
wavelength
()
Date: June 30, 2021 20:05
Quote
Rocktiludrop
I really would enjoy someone putting their thoughts towards this aspect of Mick T, it's fascinating in a way more than success, because for the life of me i don't understand how you can be as good as Taylor and do so little about it, he obviously has some issues with getting his act together,
I find this aspect imminently fascinating as well. It is what really draws me to his story. This irreconcilable dissonance between the image of him as a fresh, handsome, immensely talented player and his life's journey. I think the fans of his music like me have created all these expectations of what should have become of him. Clearly he could never live up to those.
It would take a fiction writer to enter into his mind and transpose it and make it understandable. I have always thought that his story would make a great play, an old man reflecting on his life and exchanging dialogue with people and musicians that entered and exited his life.
As Keith Richards once said in Guitar World: “Mick Taylor is a great guitarist, but he found out the hard way that that’s all he is.” It is a condescending, reductionist statement but there is also some painful truth to it.
You can't separate the player from the person. On a most basic level he started his professional career so young and peaked too soon. It must really warp your perspective to achieve that level of fame and fortune so early believing you have the creative potential that leads to a successful solo career only to realize you do not then having to live with that reality. Addiction can really effect your personality, behaviour, judgement and ability to function.
Only he knows his mental and emotional state. He became lost in addiction, depression, self-loathing, lack of purpose.
There really is no rational explanation. Life rarely works out as one would like it to. We should all just accept it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 23:06 by wavelength.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: June 30, 2021 20:24
I think we that love his playing know that no other guitarist can move us like that, and then on top of that later finding out that just about all my favourite Stones tracks have Mick Taylor all over them.
The thing that is truly sad about him is most guitar lovers are completely unaware of him, i doubt (unless they are Stones fans) they have even heard him play, none of the tracks he was predominant on were singles.
The thing that is truly sad about him is most guitar lovers are completely unaware of him, i doubt (unless they are Stones fans) they have even heard him play, none of the tracks he was predominant on were singles.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: June 30, 2021 21:05
Didn’t he get writer’s credit for Criss Cross Man.Hisbass lines on Fingerprint File sound like they influenced Wyman’s bass on Miss You.Early on the songs were credited to the entire band, under the name Nanker Phelge. Doesn’t Bono give writer’s credit to all the members of the band.I think there are very few songs, that were written just by Mick and Keith.The rest of the band contributed to most of them.If you give writers credit to the person who started it with fewchords or riffs and then gives it to the band to work it into a finished song that may define a lot of the Stones songs.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: June 30, 2021 22:27
[www.youtube.com]
John Mayall - My Own Fault - Great Mick Taylor solo Live
Early example of MT mimicking the sax, he was 18 at that time.
Mick Taylor solo at 7:01
Comment by Mayall on this track: Remarkable absence of audience reaction, so we just played quietly to ourselves.
From "Dairy of a band" -1968
Live at the London Speakeasy - 2nd Nov.1967
Mick Taylor - gtr
Keith Tillman - bs
Keef Hartley - drs
Chris Mercer - sax (t & b)
Dick Heckstall-Smith - sax (t & s)
John Mayall - My Own Fault - Great Mick Taylor solo Live
Early example of MT mimicking the sax, he was 18 at that time.
Mick Taylor solo at 7:01
Comment by Mayall on this track: Remarkable absence of audience reaction, so we just played quietly to ourselves.
From "Dairy of a band" -1968
Live at the London Speakeasy - 2nd Nov.1967
Mick Taylor - gtr
Keith Tillman - bs
Keef Hartley - drs
Chris Mercer - sax (t & b)
Dick Heckstall-Smith - sax (t & s)
Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
wavelength
()
Date: June 30, 2021 23:08
Does anyone know what happened to the web site micktaylor.net? There was a lot of great material on the site
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
wavelength
()
Date: June 30, 2021 23:15
Quote
Send It To me
I'm sure this has been posted on before, but it seems strange that Taylor never cashed in with a book. I wonder if Stones paid him NOT to write one, ha.
I remember reading an interview with MT. At the end he chided the interviewer telling him that he was stealing material that could be in his (MT) book.
He is all too aware that people are mainly interested in his Rolling Stones period. Maybe the reality of having to revisit that period is too much to bear for him. He constantly gets hounded on the subject and must be so sick of having to answer the "why did you leave the Stones" question.
I would not be in the least surprised if maintaining silence was part of his contract and financial renumeration when he appeared with them last.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 04:43 by wavelength.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: July 1, 2021 11:08
Quote
Rocktiludrop
Song writing apart, ( yeah he clearly isn't a song writer in his own right ), but that shouldn't have prevented him from finding a great singer performer as a foil for him to deliver great live concerts showcasing his Stones related work and some great blues etc. What I've seen of him through the decades live is a little unprofessional, he didn't really try to form his own band, I'm sure if he had he would have sold out Arenas with the right play lists with lots of Stones tracks.
But, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what MT tried to do in the 90s, alone (think of "Stranger in this town") or with am established singer (Carla Olson, for example).
Problem is, his act didn't sell out arenas. It could hardly sell out small clubs.
As a consequence, the budget for tour production fell down, and with less money available also the shows became, as you say, unprofessional.
I've seen Taylor play solo many times.
I think he always did what he wanted to do.
But he never really developed as an artist.
C
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: July 1, 2021 11:13
Quote
liddasQuote
Rocktiludrop
Song writing apart, ( yeah he clearly isn't a song writer in his own right ), but that shouldn't have prevented him from finding a great singer performer as a foil for him to deliver great live concerts showcasing his Stones related work and some great blues etc. What I've seen of him through the decades live is a little unprofessional, he didn't really try to form his own band, I'm sure if he had he would have sold out Arenas with the right play lists with lots of Stones tracks.
But, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what MT tried to do in the 90s, alone (think of "Stranger in this town") or with am established singer (Carla Olson, for example).
Problem is, his act didn't sell out arenas. It could hardly sell out small clubs.
As a consequence, the budget for tour production fell down, and with less money available also the shows became, as you say, unprofessional.
I've seen Taylor play solo many times.
I think he always did what he wanted to do.
But he never really developed as an artist.
C
Agreed, commercially he picked the wrong band, wrong singer, no offence to Carla Olson but she's a million miles away from a rock singer like Mick, and the song choices were bland and not well performed as a band.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 11:15 by Rocktiludrop.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 1, 2021 13:40
If you mean simple 3 minute rock songs or ballads, no Taylor, like Brian , couldn’t do that .But He could write interesting music like Spanish A Minor.He just didn’t do enough of it or have the right collaborators.It did click with Jagger.Something like his Never fall in Love Again could have been worked into a good pop song with Jaggers help
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 13:44 by Taylor1.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 13:44 by Taylor1.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: July 1, 2021 14:29
Mick Taylor and Albert King - Stormy Monday
At the three minute mark, Mick starts a blistering solo
video: [youtu.be]
At the three minute mark, Mick starts a blistering solo
video: [youtu.be]
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 1, 2021 14:47
IMO, this is the best tune Taylor ever wrote. It's really good.
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 1, 2021 18:12
With Jagger or Keiths help it would have been worthy of being on a good Stones albunQuote
DandelionPowderman
IMO, this is the best tune Taylor ever wrote. It's really good.
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 1, 2021 19:54
Quote
DandelionPowderman
IMO, this is the best tune Taylor ever wrote. It's really good.
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
That whole album starts out very strong with Secret Affair and Twisted Sister. The guitar tones and playing throughout are phenomenal.
I remember an interview from the time where Taylor said he had enough material in the can for another album, and yet it’s still unreleased. I believe his PRO is ASCAP and you can see a list of songs he’s submitted but never released on their site.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-01 19:54 by TravelinMan.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 1, 2021 19:56
Quote
RocktiludropQuote
liddasQuote
Rocktiludrop
Song writing apart, ( yeah he clearly isn't a song writer in his own right ), but that shouldn't have prevented him from finding a great singer performer as a foil for him to deliver great live concerts showcasing his Stones related work and some great blues etc. What I've seen of him through the decades live is a little unprofessional, he didn't really try to form his own band, I'm sure if he had he would have sold out Arenas with the right play lists with lots of Stones tracks.
But, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what MT tried to do in the 90s, alone (think of "Stranger in this town") or with am established singer (Carla Olson, for example).
Problem is, his act didn't sell out arenas. It could hardly sell out small clubs.
As a consequence, the budget for tour production fell down, and with less money available also the shows became, as you say, unprofessional.
I've seen Taylor play solo many times.
I think he always did what he wanted to do.
But he never really developed as an artist.
C
Agreed, commercially he picked the wrong band, wrong singer, no offence to Carla Olson but she's a million miles away from a rock singer like Mick, and the song choices were bland and not well performed as a band.
I have buddy who was in Nashville during that time and he said he thought they were dating. Just what I heard.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: July 1, 2021 20:22
Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 1, 2021 19:54
Quote
DandelionPowderman
IMO, this is the best tune Taylor ever wrote. It's really good.
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
That whole album starts out very strong with Secret Affair and Twisted Sister. The guitar tones and playing throughout are phenomenal.
I remember an interview from the time where Taylor said he had enough material in the can for another album, and yet it’s still unreleased. I believe his PRO is ASCAP and you can see a list of songs he’s submitted but never released on their site.
I agree the whole album is very listenable with great guitar tones.
[www.youtube.com]
Mick Taylor - Stranger in this town.
[www.youtube.com]
Broken Hands
Stranger in This Town and Broken Hands could easy be stones classics with Keith's rhythm guitar and Jagger vocals.
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 1, 2021 19:54
Quote
DandelionPowderman
IMO, this is the best tune Taylor ever wrote. It's really good.
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
That whole album starts out very strong with Secret Affair and Twisted Sister. The guitar tones and playing throughout are phenomenal.
I remember an interview from the time where Taylor said he had enough material in the can for another album, and yet it’s still unreleased. I believe his PRO is ASCAP and you can see a list of songs he’s submitted but never released on their site.
I agree the whole album is very listenable with great guitar tones.
[www.youtube.com]
Mick Taylor - Stranger in this town.
[www.youtube.com]
Broken Hands
Stranger in This Town and Broken Hands could easy be stones classics with Keith's rhythm guitar and Jagger vocals.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: July 1, 2021 22:27
[www.youtube.com]
Sway Live w Mick Taylor Tongue Pit - The Rolling Stones 2013 LA
Guitar tone at 2.21 fantastic. Taylor should of took both solos if Jagger is going to cut short MT's solo. Crowd went nuts.
Sway Live w Mick Taylor Tongue Pit - The Rolling Stones 2013 LA
Guitar tone at 2.21 fantastic. Taylor should of took both solos if Jagger is going to cut short MT's solo. Crowd went nuts.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: July 2, 2021 02:46
Quote
TravelinManQuote
RocktiludropQuote
liddasQuote
Rocktiludrop
Song writing apart, ( yeah he clearly isn't a song writer in his own right ), but that shouldn't have prevented him from finding a great singer performer as a foil for him to deliver great live concerts showcasing his Stones related work and some great blues etc. What I've seen of him through the decades live is a little unprofessional, he didn't really try to form his own band, I'm sure if he had he would have sold out Arenas with the right play lists with lots of Stones tracks.
But, as a matter of fact, that is exactly what MT tried to do in the 90s, alone (think of "Stranger in this town") or with am established singer (Carla Olson, for example).
Problem is, his act didn't sell out arenas. It could hardly sell out small clubs.
As a consequence, the budget for tour production fell down, and with less money available also the shows became, as you say, unprofessional.
I've seen Taylor play solo many times.
I think he always did what he wanted to do.
But he never really developed as an artist.
C
Agreed, commercially he picked the wrong band, wrong singer, no offence to Carla Olson but she's a million miles away from a rock singer like Mick, and the song choices were bland and not well performed as a band.
I have buddy who was in Nashville during that time and he said he thought they were dating. Just what I heard.
That explains a lot.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: July 2, 2021 05:48
Quote
DandelionPowderman
IMO, this is the best tune Taylor ever wrote. It's really good.
The production on this album leaves a lot to be desired, though.
[youtu.be]
He is not the greatest lyrics writer though
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Testify
()
Date: July 2, 2021 16:44
Why did Wood get the credits for some songs instead? Wood himself explains it, if you want a credit you need to ask for it immediately with the Stones asking for it after years makes little sense, because it is difficult to remember what who did who did during the sessions.Quote
RocktiludropQuote
TravelinMan
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.
The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.
Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.
Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
Wood did it, Taylor could have done it too, the truth is that this was not the real reason that pushed Taylor away.
As Taylor himself said, drugs played an important role and at the time the Stones were experiencing a moment of uncertainty regardless of Taylor. Nobody at the time would have bet anything on the Rolling Stones who by all accounts were close to disbanding. This coupled with Taylor's drug problems drove him away, not the credits, which weren't in Taylor's head at the time.
If Taylor really cared about those credits he would get them, there were in fact financial deals between the band and him.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 2, 2021 17:48
Quote
TestifyWhy did Wood get the credits for some songs instead? Wood himself explains it, if you want a credit you need to ask for it immediately with the Stones asking for it after years makes little sense, because it is difficult to remember what who did who did during the sessions.Quote
RocktiludropQuote
TravelinMan
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.
The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.
Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.
Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
Wood did it, Taylor could have done it too, the truth is that this was not the real reason that pushed Taylor away.
As Taylor himself said, drugs played an important role and at the time the Stones were experiencing a moment of uncertainty regardless of Taylor. Nobody at the time would have bet anything on the Rolling Stones who by all accounts were close to disbanding. This coupled with Taylor's drug problems drove him away, not the credits, which weren't in Taylor's head at the time.
If Taylor really cared about those credits he would get them, there were in fact financial deals between the band and him.
Sorry, I have to call BS here. First of all, trying to compare Taylor and Wood doesn’t work. Wood is older and was in a major band(s) for years. He understood how it worked. Taylor was looked after by elder statesman, John Mayall, who gave him credit when it was due. Taylor was taken care of and then joined the Stones as what, 19/20 year old? Talk about being thrown in the fire.
Secondly, are you totally ignoring the Nick Kent interview where Taylor said Jagger promised him credit? They obviously wrote together without Richards.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: July 3, 2021 12:24
Quote
TravelinManQuote
TestifyWhy did Wood get the credits for some songs instead? Wood himself explains it, if you want a credit you need to ask for it immediately with the Stones asking for it after years makes little sense, because it is difficult to remember what who did who did during the sessions.Quote
RocktiludropQuote
TravelinMan
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.
The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.
Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.
Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
Wood did it, Taylor could have done it too, the truth is that this was not the real reason that pushed Taylor away.
As Taylor himself said, drugs played an important role and at the time the Stones were experiencing a moment of uncertainty regardless of Taylor. Nobody at the time would have bet anything on the Rolling Stones who by all accounts were close to disbanding. This coupled with Taylor's drug problems drove him away, not the credits, which weren't in Taylor's head at the time.
If Taylor really cared about those credits he would get them, there were in fact financial deals between the band and him.
Sorry, I have to call BS here. First of all, trying to compare Taylor and Wood doesn’t work. Wood is older and was in a major band(s) for years. He understood how it worked. Taylor was looked after by elder statesman, John Mayall, who gave him credit when it was due. Taylor was taken care of and then joined the Stones as what, 19/20 year old? Talk about being thrown in the fire.
Secondly, are you totally ignoring the Nick Kent interview where Taylor said Jagger promised him credit? They obviously wrote together without Richards.[/quote
Yep, agreed, Taylor was too naive to realise he would have to cause bad feelings to get credits, he took Mick on his word as a gentleman, Taylors pride and integrity was probably seen as weakness.
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