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RollingFreak
I really don't think it was all that complicated. They didn't have to bring him back, and we all just hoped it would blossom into something more. Even though that isn't really the most likely scenario. It totally makes sense they're like "listen, we don't HAVE to bring you back, but you'll enable us to sell some tickets, you'll be the gimmick. We'll throw you some money each night, you'll play 1 or 2 songs, and everyone is happy." To expect anything more was really folly on our fault. It doesn't make sense for them to fully bring him back into the fold this late in the game. I'm happy with the way it happened, even though obviously I wish it was more. I don't need to see it again.

And this is incorrect as well. They asked him back for the O2 shows in 2012. After that the idea really was to have Taylor play on much more songs, to really make the Stones a three guitar band, as both Richards and Wood could use some backup playing once in a while.

It just really didn't work put at all. Taylor was totally unrehearsed, or in other people's opinion 30 years substance abuse has hurt the guy and he simply was unable to perform at a professional level. Then his manager made herself persona non grata as she continuously demanded back all the money that the Stones according to her 'stole' from Taylor, during private events and profesional occasions. After one action of her which I cannot relate here Stones management had her escorted out of the arena, and that was it for Taylor's come-back to the Stones.

Mathijs

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achilles77

I have never heard any of this story before. When did it surface and what was the source? Can somebody please elaborate?

thanks

People shouldn't make stuff up. I bet it will be difficult to provide a source or details.

Which arena was it ? There will never be an answer to that question, for obvious reasons.

About the reasons for why Mick Taylor does not guest play with the Stones anymore:

Let's just finish that discussion here and now. I will delete all comments on that subject from now on. The reason being this is getting into a pissing contest, without and solid documentation or background.

It is a fact that Mick Taylor does not tour with the Stones anymore. I don't think he tour solo. They have his contact info, and sure they might call if needed. I have been at every show every year for ages and I have met all the people involved. A lot of what I see and hear is best kept private. I do not see any reason for discussing this any further here, as people just get offended, start pissing contents and start fighting. Just like politics. Leave the choice to Mick and Keith, they are able to handle the band.

A final word:
There is a reason why campaigns are banned on IORR (see the "Help and policies link). A campaing is like an election campaign, where someone push hard for something. When there is an opposition there will be like D-day a front and a fight, and fights and war is never nice.

Bjornulf

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Mathijs

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RollingFreak
I really don't think it was all that complicated. They didn't have to bring him back, and we all just hoped it would blossom into something more. Even though that isn't really the most likely scenario. It totally makes sense they're like "listen, we don't HAVE to bring you back, but you'll enable us to sell some tickets, you'll be the gimmick. We'll throw you some money each night, you'll play 1 or 2 songs, and everyone is happy." To expect anything more was really folly on our fault. It doesn't make sense for them to fully bring him back into the fold this late in the game. I'm happy with the way it happened, even though obviously I wish it was more. I don't need to see it again.

And this is incorrect as well. They asked him back for the O2 shows in 2012. After that the idea really was to have Taylor play on much more songs, to really make the Stones a three guitar band, as both Richards and Wood could use some backup playing once in a while.

It just really didn't work put at all. Taylor was totally unrehearsed, or in other people's opinion 30 years substance abuse has hurt the guy and he simply was unable to perform at a professional level. Then his manager made herself persona non grata as she continuously demanded back all the money that the Stones according to her 'stole' from Taylor, during private events and profesional occasions. After one action of her which I cannot relate here Stones management had her escorted out of the arena, and that was it for Taylor's come-back to the Stones.

Mathijs

Just like Mino Raiola has ruined Pogba's stay at Man United, for example.
Agents/managers are the pits and ruin things unnecessarily. No more comment from here. Hopefully MT enjoys his retirement well enough.

The stories suck, if true. I can’t imagine he would be unrehearsed on purpose, maybe he didn’t have enough time. Hell, the others have been rehearsing on stage the last 40 years!

Anyway, the Taylor with the Dead stuff from the late 80’s is awesome. Vids are up on YouTube. His guitar looks like the one Knopfler used back then.

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Mathijs

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OpenG
I have a feeling Mick Jagger squashed the idea as Taylor almost completely stole the spotlight during his solos at the 50 and Counting shows - at least that was the case at the six shows I saw.

I hated when MJ tried to rush MT's solo on CYHMK and Sway on those shows. You would think the petty jealous at age 74 would go away and Jagger would be content with the band and let the band just play with MT. The ironic thing is MT on stage in 1972 and 2012 some fans have the same opinion that he was a highlight of those shows. The whole idea of them being the greatest ROCK and Roll band after MT left was all spin IMO.

The reality was that Taylor came totally unrehearsed to the shows. He didn't have a clue what to play, and literally was trying to figure it out in front of 20,000 people.

That's why Jagger's rushing Taylor -CYHMK literally was verging to become a 25 minute jam with Taylor trying to figure out a solo in Dminor.

Mathijs

That would be D Dorian!

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TravelinMan

That would be D Dorian!

Generally spoken Taylor was in the lucky situation to get away with improvising on a great level without rehearsing for the simple reason that the chord progressions within the Stones are quite basic, blue-based, Taylor's speciality, thanks to John Mayall. Lesser Gods have to rehearse, or more challenging, try to copy/show off with Taylor's or other good players licks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-19 01:08 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TravelinMan
The stories suck, if true. I can’t imagine he would be unrehearsed on purpose, maybe he didn’t have enough time. Hell, the others have been rehearsing on stage the last 40 years!

Anyway, the Taylor with the Dead stuff from the late 80’s is awesome. Vids are up on YouTube. His guitar looks like the one Knopfler used back then.

He was certainly well rehearsed for his Iridium residency back in 2012. I went to most of those shows and they were fantastic.

Taylor ,Richards,and Wood play great for men in their 70s,but none are as good as when they were 40.Listening to Taylor playing Midnight Rambler from Shanghai and Germany on the 50 and Counting Tours and CYHMK at Glastonbury he sounds pretty damn good.I don’t hear where you can say Wood and Richard are playing better thanTaylor.Its hard to come out and play great everynight when you given only one or two songs.I would like to have heard Taylor play an entire concert where he would have had his chance to get warmed up.I like to hear Mathis opinion of Keith’s guitar playing on those shows

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Taylor1
Taylor ,Richards,and Wood play great for men in their 70s,but none are as good as when they were 40.Listening to Taylor playing Midnight Rambler from Shanghai and Germany on the 50 and Counting Tours and CYHMK at Glastonbury he sounds pretty damn good.I don’t hear where you can say Wood and Richard are playing better thanTaylor.Its hard to come out and play great everynight when you given only one or two songs.I would like to have heard Taylor play an entire concert where he would have had his chance to get warmed up.I like to hear Mathis opinion of Keith’s guitar playing on those shows

This!
You can knock his manager as almost everyone here knows very little if anything of the murky behind the scenes of the stones.

What i can say is he elevated the stones when he came on for his show spots, and when he just played as part of 'the band' on stuff like Streets of Love, etc he played great and added subtlety and nuance to what was there, and fitted in like part of the band. there are 2 sides of the stones with taylor, 1 is the show stopper guitar god, the other is the man in the band role. and i believe he did both admirably.

I could post loads of vids of his playing that kills Mathijs comment on his playing ability (whilst were on this, why no mention of woods or richards playing quality compared to the 70s?)but its not worth it, everyone can youtube it for themselves

The only bit of juice Mathjis has is he 'in the know' about nothing to do with music and all to do with rumour about associates & off stage drama. No-ones likely to validate or dismiss 'in the know' as those who have that info aren't likely to spill it.

What a shame its got aired on here wether true, partially true, or not.

Why all the bitterness about MT?
His legacy with Stones is there forever. Nothing can change that
. Why do people that.dislike disparage him want to ollow a thread dedicated to him? I saw the shows in Philly. His playing was incredible and the audience felt the same way. How could he be unrehearsed for only 1 or 2 songs? Really? That sounds totally ridiculous. The songs he did play on he was great Every You Tube videos witness that. How is it known he does not play the guitar in his own home? Are people peeping in the window?Mick Taylor's magic and genius are gone from the Stones. His short return had some of us thinking and hoping how incredible the music could have been. But it's not. The same exact songs played the same exact way and its gotten somewhat tired and too expensive for the same show and set list for the past 20 years. The possibility of MT returning and breathing some new life into the same songs had some of us daydreaming and hoping for some real fire back into the songs.From what I have read many people were amazed at his playing when he was last with them. In Philly jaws dropped and many fans had no idea he was a former Stone and wondered why he was not a part of the band.

To understand and appreciate what Mick Taylor brought to the 50 and Counting shows, and how much his involvement meant to many of us, here are some excerpts from the LA Weekly review of the the L.A. Staples show, May, 20, 2013.

The Rolling Stones – Staples Center – 5/20/13

"For some of the shows on this tour, the Stones have allowed online fans to choose one of the songs for the set list. Last night's winner was “Sway,” beating out such rarely played songs as “Shine a Light” and “Some Girls.” Although “Sway” is one of the most powerful tracks on one of the Stones' most powerful albums, Sticky Fingers, they've only started performing it live on rare occasions in the past decade. It's one of Mick Jagger's more passionate and unusually confessional lyrics, as he laments, “Must be that demon life that's caught me in its sway.” Reportedly, the music was written by Taylor, one of several key songs that the guitarist felt he was never properly credited (or compensated) for. Would the Stones dare play the song live without Taylor? Last night, they didn't, which meant that, for the first time ever, the song was played properly, with Jagger's world-weary musings rising grandly over Richards' thick chords — and Taylor's artfully embellished and intricate curlicues of lead guitar. Taylor looked ecstatic to finally get to play something different, and many fans in the crowd had stunned looks on their faces. Several grown men were in literal tears".

"Then the biggest surprise of the night — a version of “Can't You Hear Me Knocking,” the extended epic from Sticky Fingers that was one of the earliest indications that the Stones really were much more than a garage band, capable of branching out expansively into jazz and dazzling improvisation. The Stones have tried playing it a handful of times in the past decade, but, without Taylor's incisive, fluid soloing, the song previously seemed incomplete. Last night, they tore the roof off the sucker. “Can't You Hear” is really two songs in one. The first half rides along one of those trademark monumental riffs, with, again, an atypically vulnerable Jagger forcefully pleading for help between the serrated edges of Richards' angry rhythm guitar. Then, halfway through, the song suddenly downshifts into a jazzy instrumental passage, where funky percussion, percolating keyboards and swooning bass create a Santana-like idyll, with Taylor slowly gathering elegant melodies together and spinning them like webs over everything. On this live version, even Taylor's simple rhythmic inversions underneath Richards' chords were sublime. Drummer Charlie Watts came to life, visibly happy to show off his jazz chops on such a complex and febrile song. Taylor outlined several of the classic melodies at first, before venturing off into new sonic byways. An impatient Jagger came over to glower at Taylor, as if to say, “Hurry up,” so Taylor reeled back in his most out-there licks, culminating finally in a dramatic coda where he tied everything neatly together with a velvet bow".

"This was what hardcore Stones fans have been waiting for all their lives. This was why they stood in lines for hours, paid too much for tickets, missed work time or begged off from family obligations — just so they could follow the Stones around the state like true believers, dazed and ecstatic to finally hear those magic skeins of sound onstage for the first time. It was a real moment. It made up for every torture, every test of endurance and patience, every hoop that Jagger made the fans jump through".

"It seemed too much to hope for to have Taylor come out and do “Midnight Rambler,” especially since he'd already gotten to play the similarly epic “Can't You Hear Me Knocking,” but this was a night of fulfilled expectations. Not only did Taylor come out again, but his bewitching rhythmic twists even had Jagger dancing an extended sideways soft-shoe shuffle. Taylor dropped to his knees for his first extended solo, the licks bubbling out slowly at first like lava before erupting in a cascade of stinging, stabbing notes. Watts tapped his cymbals for light-rain sounds, pulling the strings like a puppeteer as the stormy riffs subsided into the slow, bluesy midsection. Taylor airily unfolded woozy surges from his slide guitar as the rest of the band slammed down the whiplash accents and Jagger wafted provocative entreaties on his harmonica. Taylor was often the centerpiece of the night, but the concert was moving and memorable in other ways. Jagger was atypically nostalgic, talking frequently about how the Stones have been visiting Southern California since 1965. He seemed to be openly rueful that this might be the last time they'd ever play in one of their favorite cities."

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Taylor’s tone and touch are still there. I thought he sounded great last go around, all things considered.

Seen Mick Taylor with his own band play live about half a dozen times in London area and Europe and always a good gig.
To see him play guitar live is such a great experience and such a shame he seems to prefer retirement , but obviously that is what he wants to do.

I understand the "unrehearsed" comment if it refers to the initial outing in 2012. It had some really weird vibe, Taylor was clearly nervous and all over the place. He knew too well what was expected from him and overcompensated imo. When I first watched it, I really wasn't too sure if it was a good idea. Seemed a bit like bringing a dancing bear onstage and at one point it actually looked like Jagger rudely mouthed him off. In hindsight it's very understandable that it didn't gel instantly.

Question First should ask - Was he invited to any of the rehearsals, If so it does not change what is role was with the stones in the studio. Keith said in that rolling stone interview when they released the Exile bonus tracks if he had his way he would be back. He later said that I never told MT what to play in the studio on any new songs MT just came up with his guitar parts to enhance the material. By the fans reaction on the 50 tour his playing was some of the highlights of the shows.

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OpenG
Question First should ask - Was he invited to any of the rehearsals, If so it does not change what is role was with the stones in the studio. Keith said in that rolling stone interview when they released the Exile bonus tracks if he had his way he would be back. He later said that I never told MT what to play in the studio on any new songs MT just came up with his guitar parts to enhance the material. By the fans reaction on the 50 tour his playing was some of the highlights of the shows.

The songs they played with Taylor sounded unrehearsed to me, the entire band, with Sway a good 'highlight'. Probably the reason why Taylor's musical participation became superfluous, at least to my ears. He's not the shit hot Stones lead player he once was. None of them. But catch them when you can, they'r getting old.

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Mathijs

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OpenG
I have a feeling Mick Jagger squashed the idea as Taylor almost completely stole the spotlight during his solos at the 50 and Counting shows - at least that was the case at the six shows I saw.

I hated when MJ tried to rush MT's solo on CYHMK and Sway on those shows. You would think the petty jealous at age 74 would go away and Jagger would be content with the band and let the band just play with MT. The ironic thing is MT on stage in 1972 and 2012 some fans have the same opinion that he was a highlight of those shows. The whole idea of them being the greatest ROCK and Roll band after MT left was all spin IMO.

The reality was that Taylor came totally unrehearsed to the shows. He didn't have a clue what to play, and literally was trying to figure it out in front of 20,000 people.

That's why Jagger's rushing Taylor -CYHMK literally was verging to become a 25 minute jam with Taylor trying to figure out a solo in Dminor.

Mathijs

Yeah Taylor came from the Era of what Keith use to call & misses “The Road Version” of a song “you have the LP version & then the Live Stage version” Jagger likes structure I don’t think he wants anyone winging it & have it spoil the flow of the show & mess up his cues,

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Hairball
To understand and appreciate what Mick Taylor brought to the 50 and Counting shows, and how much his involvement meant to many of us, here are some excerpts from the LA Weekly review of the the L.A. Staples show, May, 20, 2013.

The Rolling Stones – Staples Center – 5/20/13

"For some of the shows on this tour, the Stones have allowed online fans to choose one of the songs for the set list. Last night's winner was “Sway,” beating out such rarely played songs as “Shine a Light” and “Some Girls.” Although “Sway” is one of the most powerful tracks on one of the Stones' most powerful albums, Sticky Fingers, they've only started performing it live on rare occasions in the past decade. It's one of Mick Jagger's more passionate and unusually confessional lyrics, as he laments, “Must be that demon life that's caught me in its sway.” Reportedly, the music was written by Taylor, one of several key songs that the guitarist felt he was never properly credited (or compensated) for. Would the Stones dare play the song live without Taylor? Last night, they didn't, which meant that, for the first time ever, the song was played properly, with Jagger's world-weary musings rising grandly over Richards' thick chords — and Taylor's artfully embellished and intricate curlicues of lead guitar. Taylor looked ecstatic to finally get to play something different, and many fans in the crowd had stunned looks on their faces. Several grown men were in literal tears".

"Then the biggest surprise of the night — a version of “Can't You Hear Me Knocking,” the extended epic from Sticky Fingers that was one of the earliest indications that the Stones really were much more than a garage band, capable of branching out expansively into jazz and dazzling improvisation. The Stones have tried playing it a handful of times in the past decade, but, without Taylor's incisive, fluid soloing, the song previously seemed incomplete. Last night, they tore the roof off the sucker. “Can't You Hear” is really two songs in one. The first half rides along one of those trademark monumental riffs, with, again, an atypically vulnerable Jagger forcefully pleading for help between the serrated edges of Richards' angry rhythm guitar. Then, halfway through, the song suddenly downshifts into a jazzy instrumental passage, where funky percussion, percolating keyboards and swooning bass create a Santana-like idyll, with Taylor slowly gathering elegant melodies together and spinning them like webs over everything. On this live version, even Taylor's simple rhythmic inversions underneath Richards' chords were sublime. Drummer Charlie Watts came to life, visibly happy to show off his jazz chops on such a complex and febrile song. Taylor outlined several of the classic melodies at first, before venturing off into new sonic byways. An impatient Jagger came over to glower at Taylor, as if to say, “Hurry up,” so Taylor reeled back in his most out-there licks, culminating finally in a dramatic coda where he tied everything neatly together with a velvet bow".

"This was what hardcore Stones fans have been waiting for all their lives. This was why they stood in lines for hours, paid too much for tickets, missed work time or begged off from family obligations — just so they could follow the Stones around the state like true believers, dazed and ecstatic to finally hear those magic skeins of sound onstage for the first time. It was a real moment. It made up for every torture, every test of endurance and patience, every hoop that Jagger made the fans jump through".

"It seemed too much to hope for to have Taylor come out and do “Midnight Rambler,” especially since he'd already gotten to play the similarly epic “Can't You Hear Me Knocking,” but this was a night of fulfilled expectations. Not only did Taylor come out again, but his bewitching rhythmic twists even had Jagger dancing an extended sideways soft-shoe shuffle. Taylor dropped to his knees for his first extended solo, the licks bubbling out slowly at first like lava before erupting in a cascade of stinging, stabbing notes. Watts tapped his cymbals for light-rain sounds, pulling the strings like a puppeteer as the stormy riffs subsided into the slow, bluesy midsection. Taylor airily unfolded woozy surges from his slide guitar as the rest of the band slammed down the whiplash accents and Jagger wafted provocative entreaties on his harmonica. Taylor was often the centerpiece of the night, but the concert was moving and memorable in other ways. Jagger was atypically nostalgic, talking frequently about how the Stones have been visiting Southern California since 1965. He seemed to be openly rueful that this might be the last time they'd ever play in one of their favorite cities."

I was there,the crowd was louder during the songs while Taylor was playing I think they were talking about what they were finally getting to see & hear, Mick Taylor back with the Stones playing Sway, CYHMK Etc.

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OpenG


I hated when MJ tried to rush MT's solo on CYHMK and Sway on those shows. You would think the petty jealous at age 74 would go away and Jagger would be content with the band and let the band just play with MT .

I think you're very wrong. Even in 72/73 Jagger would pressure Taylor into playing concise and to-the-point solos. if you listen to tapes from that era and hear Jagger screaming "yeah yeah yeah" over a MT solo it meant "c'mon you c‡nt get over it asap!"
Stones songs or live gigs were never designed to let a virtuoso display his skills. "Quick and to the point" is their motto not "hey wanna take a 4th solo? Go ahead!".
This is not the Dead!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-24 21:45 by dcba.

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dcba

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OpenG


I hated when MJ tried to rush MT's solo on CYHMK and Sway on those shows. You would think the petty jealous at age 74 would go away and Jagger would be content with the band and let the band just play with MT .

I think you're very wrong. Even in 72/73 Jagger would pressure Taylor into playing concise and to-the-point solos. if you listen to tapes from that era and hear Jagger screaming "yeah yeah yeah" over a MT solo it meant "c'mon you c‡nt get over it asap!"
Stones songs or live gigs were never designed to let a virtuoso display his skills. "Quick and to the point" is their motto not "hey wanna take
This is not the Dead!

How do you know that iswhat Jagger means when he yells yeah yeah yeah ? Is that the translation of stop? And Taylor’s solos were mostly concise and to the point ,adding not diminishing to the songs.If anything I find Jagger to over sing on a lot of songs like Star Star and CanYou Hera the Music.And on a lot of Stones songs Hopkins and Preston ,although great,are given a lot of prominence on the tracks

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usetobesampeg

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Hairball
To understand and appreciate what Mick Taylor brought to the 50 and Counting shows, and how much his involvement meant to many of us, here are some excerpts from the LA Weekly review of the the L.A. Staples show, May, 20, 2013.

The Rolling Stones – Staples Center – 5/20/13

"For some of the shows on this tour, the Stones have allowed online fans to choose one of the songs for the set list. Last night's winner was “Sway,” beating out such rarely played songs as “Shine a Light” and “Some Girls.” Although “Sway” is one of the most powerful tracks on one of the Stones' most powerful albums, Sticky Fingers, they've only started performing it live on rare occasions in the past decade. It's one of Mick Jagger's more passionate and unusually confessional lyrics, as he laments, “Must be that demon life that's caught me in its sway.” Reportedly, the music was written by Taylor, one of several key songs that the guitarist felt he was never properly credited (or compensated) for. Would the Stones dare play the song live without Taylor? Last night, they didn't, which meant that, for the first time ever, the song was played properly, with Jagger's world-weary musings rising grandly over Richards' thick chords — and Taylor's artfully embellished and intricate curlicues of lead guitar. Taylor looked ecstatic to finally get to play something different, and many fans in the crowd had stunned looks on their faces. Several grown men were in literal tears".

"Then the biggest surprise of the night — a version of “Can't You Hear Me Knocking,” the extended epic from Sticky Fingers that was one of the earliest indications that the Stones really were much more than a garage band, capable of branching out expansively into jazz and dazzling improvisation. The Stones have tried playing it a handful of times in the past decade, but, without Taylor's incisive, fluid soloing, the song previously seemed incomplete. Last night, they tore the roof off the sucker. “Can't You Hear” is really two songs in one. The first half rides along one of those trademark monumental riffs, with, again, an atypically vulnerable Jagger forcefully pleading for help between the serrated edges of Richards' angry rhythm guitar. Then, halfway through, the song suddenly downshifts into a jazzy instrumental passage, where funky percussion, percolating keyboards and swooning bass create a Santana-like idyll, with Taylor slowly gathering elegant melodies together and spinning them like webs over everything. On this live version, even Taylor's simple rhythmic inversions underneath Richards' chords were sublime. Drummer Charlie Watts came to life, visibly happy to show off his jazz chops on such a complex and febrile song. Taylor outlined several of the classic melodies at first, before venturing off into new sonic byways. An impatient Jagger came over to glower at Taylor, as if to say, “Hurry up,” so Taylor reeled back in his most out-there licks, culminating finally in a dramatic coda where he tied everything neatly together with a velvet bow".

"This was what hardcore Stones fans have been waiting for all their lives. This was why they stood in lines for hours, paid too much for tickets, missed work time or begged off from family obligations — just so they could follow the Stones around the state like true believers, dazed and ecstatic to finally hear those magic skeins of sound onstage for the first time. It was a real moment. It made up for every torture, every test of endurance and patience, every hoop that Jagger made the fans jump through".

"It seemed too much to hope for to have Taylor come out and do “Midnight Rambler,” especially since he'd already gotten to play the similarly epic “Can't You Hear Me Knocking,” but this was a night of fulfilled expectations. Not only did Taylor come out again, but his bewitching rhythmic twists even had Jagger dancing an extended sideways soft-shoe shuffle. Taylor dropped to his knees for his first extended solo, the licks bubbling out slowly at first like lava before erupting in a cascade of stinging, stabbing notes. Watts tapped his cymbals for light-rain sounds, pulling the strings like a puppeteer as the stormy riffs subsided into the slow, bluesy midsection. Taylor airily unfolded woozy surges from his slide guitar as the rest of the band slammed down the whiplash accents and Jagger wafted provocative entreaties on his harmonica. Taylor was often the centerpiece of the night, but the concert was moving and memorable in other ways. Jagger was atypically nostalgic, talking frequently about how the Stones have been visiting Southern California since 1965. He seemed to be openly rueful that this might be the last time they'd ever play in one of their favorite cities."

I was there,the crowd was louder during the songs while Taylor was playing I think they were talking about what they were finally getting to see & hear, Mick Taylor back with the Stones playing Sway, CYHMK Etc.

Yes I was there also and it was amongst the best Stones shows I've ever seen, and many in attendance felt the same (including the L.A. Weekly reviewer who wrote the above).
But now you have these oddball nincompoops attempting to rewrite history by saying "they were under-rehearsed", and "blah, blah, blah, blah"...what a complete load of crap.
It was the Stones as close to their prime as possible (i.e. better than they've sounded in decades), and a majority of the credit goes to Mick Taylor.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

removed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-25 03:46 by Rocky Dijon.

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Hairball

Yes I was there also and it was amongst the best Stones shows I've ever seen, and many in attendance felt the same (including the L.A. Weekly reviewer who wrote the above).
But now you have these oddball nincompoops attempting to rewrite history by saying "they were under-rehearsed", and "blah, blah, blah, blah"...what a complete load of crap.
It was the Stones as close to their prime as possible (i.e. better than they've sounded in decades), and a majority of the credit goes to Mick Taylor.

I have seen the Stones with Taylor a couple of times, and yes it was exciting and yes, I thought the Stones started to play better. They started to concentrate a bit more, they started to jam a bit more on a song they have played hundreds of times and hasn't changed since the early 90's, Midnight Rambler.

But in my opinion it wasn't very good what he played. There wasn't an idea behind, it was not rehearsed, it was some of the times just bad.

There's many clips on youtube that aren't very good. Check the Japanese shows, where they did Silver Train and Sway -that's just plain bad guitar playing and he doesn't have a clue how the songs go.

In Berlin' Waldbuhne you also could notice he irritated Keith, by taking the lead from him, by starting the middle part too early, by changing the beat around. I thought that was great, because it was new and quite exciting, but Keith was absolutely pissed at Taylor.

But again: I was happy for him to return. and sad that he only played a such a small amount of numbers.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Hairball

Yes I was there also and it was amongst the best Stones shows I've ever seen, and many in attendance felt the same (including the L.A. Weekly reviewer who wrote the above).
But now you have these oddball nincompoops attempting to rewrite history by saying "they were under-rehearsed", and "blah, blah, blah, blah"...what a complete load of crap.
It was the Stones as close to their prime as possible (i.e. better than they've sounded in decades), and a majority of the credit goes to Mick Taylor.

I have seen the Stones with Taylor a couple of times, and yes it was exciting and yes, I thought the Stones started to play better. They started to concentrate a bit more, they started to jam a bit more on a song they have played hundreds of times and hasn't changed since the early 90's, Midnight Rambler.

But in my opinion it wasn't very good what he played. There wasn't an idea behind, it was not rehearsed, it was some of the times just bad.

There's many clips on youtube that aren't very good. Check the Japanese shows, where they did Silver Train and Sway -that's just plain bad guitar playing and he doesn't have a clue how the songs go.

In Berlin' Waldbuhne you also could notice he irritated Keith, by taking the lead from him, by starting the middle part too early, by changing the beat around. I thought that was great, because it was new and quite exciting, but Keith was absolutely pissed at Taylor.

But again: I was happy for him to return. and sad that he only played a such a small amount of numbers.

Mathijs

Im really sorry but come off it. have you heard wood and richards on the same tour? have you heard what they play ad the quality and ability required? richards currently plays a progressively reduced chordal spectrum ( i still love it but lets be honest, he's not got the fingers for his old chops anymore, and has reduced his parts to the bare essentials) wood also played on silver train and stunk it out, both him n taylor were swopping leads etc.

The outro section woods started to played on MR 9/10x was poorly played simple hammer ons, quite often out of time, key etc. The lead played by wood on SOL, wow a beginner could play that, its really poor quality playin of a poor part, i could go on in a lot of detail about woods n richards but its not nice, no point. we all see the clips attend the gigs. Theres even a thread or 2about richards mistakes on stage, but done in light hearted jest.

You can cherry pick all you want but lets cut the revisionist agenda here.

You've banged a drum about off stage rumour but have nothing to add on what everyone can see on stage for a fair while, whilst adding little fact.

Off stage i have no idea, but on stage having played semi pro/pro for 30 years i can tell you that he elevated the stones whilst on stage, and they elevated him. don't start trying to imply out of the 3 he stunk the gtr out the most and then say but hey I'm sad he didn't play more as a get out of jail aside at the end. its an empty handed gesture in that context.

lets leave the he's poor/unrehearsed etc jibber jabber. you can post rumour of off stage stuff but trying to stink out the onstage aint cool for me.

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Captainchaos

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Mathijs

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Hairball

Yes I was there also and it was amongst the best Stones shows I've ever seen, and many in attendance felt the same (including the L.A. Weekly reviewer who wrote the above).
But now you have these oddball nincompoops attempting to rewrite history by saying "they were under-rehearsed", and "blah, blah, blah, blah"...what a complete load of crap.
It was the Stones as close to their prime as possible (i.e. better than they've sounded in decades), and a majority of the credit goes to Mick Taylor.

I have seen the Stones with Taylor a couple of times, and yes it was exciting and yes, I thought the Stones started to play better. They started to concentrate a bit more, they started to jam a bit more on a song they have played hundreds of times and hasn't changed since the early 90's, Midnight Rambler.

But in my opinion it wasn't very good what he played. There wasn't an idea behind, it was not rehearsed, it was some of the times just bad.

There's many clips on youtube that aren't very good. Check the Japanese shows, where they did Silver Train and Sway -that's just plain bad guitar playing and he doesn't have a clue how the songs go.

In Berlin' Waldbuhne you also could notice he irritated Keith, by taking the lead from him, by starting the middle part too early, by changing the beat around. I thought that was great, because it was new and quite exciting, but Keith was absolutely pissed at Taylor.

But again: I was happy for him to return. and sad that he only played a such a small amount of numbers.

Mathijs

Im really sorry but come off it. have you heard wood and richards on the same tour? have you heard what they play ad the quality and ability required? richards currently plays a progressively reduced chordal spectrum ( i still love it but lets be honest, he's not got the fingers for his old chops anymore, and has reduced his parts to the bare essentials) wood also played on silver train and stunk it out, both him n taylor were swopping leads etc.

The outro section woods started to played on MR 9/10x was poorly played simple hammer ons, quite often out of time, key etc. The lead played by wood on SOL, wow a beginner could play that, its really poor quality playin of a poor part, i could go on in a lot of detail about woods n richards but its not nice, no point. we all see the clips attend the gigs. Theres even a thread or 2about richards mistakes on stage, but done in light hearted jest.

You can cherry pick all you want but lets cut the revisionist agenda here.

You've banged a drum about off stage rumour but have nothing to add on what everyone can see on stage for a fair while, whilst adding little fact.

Off stage i have no idea, but on stage having played semi pro/pro for 30 years i can tell you that he elevated the stones whilst on stage, and they elevated him. don't start trying to imply out of the 3 he stunk the gtr out the most and then say but hey I'm sad he didn't play more as a get out of jail aside at the end. its an empty handed gesture in that context.

lets leave the he's poor/unrehearsed etc jibber jabber. you can post rumour of off stage stuff but trying to stink out the onstage aint cool for me.

If you've played pro/semi-pro like you say you probably have some thoughts about Taylor's tone on his comeback? The change of phrasing? The lack of sustain? The ongoing technical problems?

Personally, I'm not as critical as many are regarding his playing 2012-2014. It was great having him back, but it was pure nostalgia and not the same Taylor. (there was no reason hoping for that, either).

Paradoxically, the most accurate glimpses of his old brilliance (vibrato, sustain, imagination, creativity) came on newer tracks like Slipping Away and Streets Of Love, imo. There was no pressure, and he seemed to have fun with those tunes - contrary to the guitar hero-role he had to play on MR. CYHMK and Sway.

And Mick Taylor should be compared with Mick Taylor, not Keith. They're way too different as musicians for making a valid comparison.

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DandelionPowderman

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Captainchaos

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Mathijs

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Hairball

Yes I was there also and it was amongst the best Stones shows I've ever seen, and many in attendance felt the same (including the L.A. Weekly reviewer who wrote the above).
But now you have these oddball nincompoops attempting to rewrite history by saying "they were under-rehearsed", and "blah, blah, blah, blah"...what a complete load of crap.
It was the Stones as close to their prime as possible (i.e. better than they've sounded in decades), and a majority of the credit goes to Mick Taylor.

I have seen the Stones with Taylor a couple of times, and yes it was exciting and yes, I thought the Stones started to play better. They started to concentrate a bit more, they started to jam a bit more on a song they have played hundreds of times and hasn't changed since the early 90's, Midnight Rambler.

But in my opinion it wasn't very good what he played. There wasn't an idea behind, it was not rehearsed, it was some of the times just bad.

There's many clips on youtube that aren't very good. Check the Japanese shows, where they did Silver Train and Sway -that's just plain bad guitar playing and he doesn't have a clue how the songs go.

In Berlin' Waldbuhne you also could notice he irritated Keith, by taking the lead from him, by starting the middle part too early, by changing the beat around. I thought that was great, because it was new and quite exciting, but Keith was absolutely pissed at Taylor.

But again: I was happy for him to return. and sad that he only played a such a small amount of numbers.

Mathijs

Im really sorry but come off it. have you heard wood and richards on the same tour? have you heard what they play ad the quality and ability required? richards currently plays a progressively reduced chordal spectrum ( i still love it but lets be honest, he's not got the fingers for his old chops anymore, and has reduced his parts to the bare essentials) wood also played on silver train and stunk it out, both him n taylor were swopping leads etc.

The outro section woods started to played on MR 9/10x was poorly played simple hammer ons, quite often out of time, key etc. The lead played by wood on SOL, wow a beginner could play that, its really poor quality playin of a poor part, i could go on in a lot of detail about woods n richards but its not nice, no point. we all see the clips attend the gigs. Theres even a thread or 2about richards mistakes on stage, but done in light hearted jest.

You can cherry pick all you want but lets cut the revisionist agenda here.

You've banged a drum about off stage rumour but have nothing to add on what everyone can see on stage for a fair while, whilst adding little fact.

Off stage i have no idea, but on stage having played semi pro/pro for 30 years i can tell you that he elevated the stones whilst on stage, and they elevated him. don't start trying to imply out of the 3 he stunk the gtr out the most and then say but hey I'm sad he didn't play more as a get out of jail aside at the end. its an empty handed gesture in that context.

lets leave the he's poor/unrehearsed etc jibber jabber. you can post rumour of off stage stuff but trying to stink out the onstage aint cool for me.

If you've played pro/semi-pro like you say you probably have some thoughts about Taylor's tone on his comeback? The change of phrasing? The lack of sustain? The ongoing technical problems?

Personally, I'm not as critical as many are regarding his playing 2012-2014. It was great having him back, but it was pure nostalgia and not the same Taylor. (there was no reason hoping for that, either).

Paradoxically, the most accurate glimpses of his old brilliance (vibrato, sustain, imagination, creativity) came on newer tracks like Slipping Away and Streets Of Love, imo. There was no pressure, and he seemed to have fun with those tunes - contrary to the guitar hero-role he had to play on MR. CYHMK and Sway.

And Mick Taylor should be compared with Mick Taylor, not Keith. They're way too different as musicians for making a valid comparison.

Hi

Ah now as an aside, i appreciate your playing and also your point, and that you clearly know Taylors 70s playing impressively.

I just don't understand the venting on Taylors playing when currently (and from 2012 onwards for context) Richards (massively) and Woods (altho since raised his game after Taylor rejoined) aren't of the same quality musicianship. To be fair Richards isn't a lead player (and these days not much of a rhythm player altho i still love him and what he does do & he's in his 70s with mangled hands)

None of them have the chops they once had - that goes for the entire band - thats partially my point, i was very interested in him using a new magnatone amp which altho i love the unique vibrato of these amps but for me they lack the grunt of ampex.

Yeah i hear you that some of his runs were sometimes a little stilted/transitions not as good. but thats within the context of having the ability to do these from coming on cold to jam on 1 chord (MR) for 10 mins.

Woods doesn't, hasn't and probly never will have the skill/creativity to do or think these parts. i can't recall any of his solo's except SOL which i only remember for thinking how bland and uncomfortable it is as a part and in execution. Yes he's the consummate performer, thats something Taylor clearly hasn't really mastered, he's the happy sideman.

For me Taylor is still clearly miles better than Woods, Richards is a shadow of what he was, Woods plays better than he has for 30 years but isn't of the quality of taylor. he's more disciplined and sticks to the parts and plays to the crowd like all cover bands do (thats what they are these days right?) - but is he capable of Shanghi Glasto, Prudential etc - no he isn't nor will he ever be. its not in him.

I also agree, the sideman role of Taylor is the most exciting, SA, SOL etc - this is what i loved and hinted at what could be. Taylor seemed happy to share his lead playing with Wood, hence Wood getting the dynamic uber played hammy hammer on pick up on MR - Taylor used to do this but then started giving it Wood, and then it became Woods part. The Tone/Sustain Wood had was far more dynamic. but what he played invariably made me cringe at the lack of quality, finnese, imagination, correct fret/note etc.

within the context of 2012 onwards stones gtr players, i have to stick up for taylor getting stick thats disproportionate. I'm sorry for bringing up woods and richards to show the context but fairs fair. This all started from the unpleasant and skewed venting from Mathijs. his post just sounds personal, unpleasant, and something a stooge of jagger would say to be honest. i found that distasteful and had to be questioned



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-25 13:09 by Captainchaos.

I'd like to leave the unpleasantness now and return to missing taylor please

I liked his tone and touch on the comeback tour haha

I listened to Taylor’s Little Red Rooster record (Belgium 2001?) with Noel Redding yesterday, wow, what a ballsy tone he had going that whole performance. It was growling, there was slide and wah wah all over the place.