Listened to this for the first time.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

As far as the Keith fast Spanish licks go though, I'm pretty convinced after hearing him do some at the end of Sister Morphine on the Fonda release. A bit slower than what we've heard in the past but the same notes are there, coming from Keith for anybody who cares to listen.

The best part of the performance of this song. A pity it's overshadowed by the brutal power guitar playing by Wood.

Ha! Sorry you feel that way. I would have expected you would have liked the entire first verse where he is sitting out. I think Ronnie is particularly good leading into and during the second verse, maybe gets a bit noisy toward the end, but overall a good interpretation of the dark (brutal) emotion of the song.

No, no and no again! I mean: the emotion of the song is dark, sad, lost and lonely. But as usual Ronnie Wood isn't able to convey that atmospere at all and just plays some brutal non-melodic guitar. I sure know how MT would have done it. Listen to this little snippet, to get an impression/imagination of how ...:
[www.youtube.com]

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

As far as the Keith fast Spanish licks go though, I'm pretty convinced after hearing him do some at the end of Sister Morphine on the Fonda release. A bit slower than what we've heard in the past but the same notes are there, coming from Keith for anybody who cares to listen.

The best part of the performance of this song. A pity it's overshadowed by the brutal power guitar playing by Wood.

Ha! Sorry you feel that way. I would have expected you would have liked the entire first verse where he is sitting out. I think Ronnie is particularly good leading into and during the second verse, maybe gets a bit noisy toward the end, but overall a good interpretation of the dark (brutal) emotion of the song.

No, no and no again! I mean: the emotion of the song is dark, sad, lost and lonely. But as usual Ronnie Wood isn't able to convey that atmospere at all and just plays some brutal non-melodic guitar. I sure know how MT would have done it. Listen to this little snippet, to get an impression/imagination of how ...:
[www.youtube.com]

Well thanks for that clip! Yeah it was good but after hearing this and the original and I still like what Ronnie did to the first verse very much. Different, new and exciting, putting his own interpretation on the song. If he had just copied the original I would have had much less respect for him. I think this is all part of Ronnie breaking off his leash and coming into his own (after all these years).

Btw his initial playing was plenty melodic, imo, only toward the end did he begin to lose some of the finesse he started out with. Of course these thing are highly subjective and I respect and understand your views on the subject even if I don't agree with all of them.

Taylor might even have done something similar in 2015 given a chance to play the tune with the Stones. I doubt he would have played it close to the bone like that acoustic version, but unfortunately we'll never know.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

As far as the Keith fast Spanish licks go though, I'm pretty convinced after hearing him do some at the end of Sister Morphine on the Fonda release. A bit slower than what we've heard in the past but the same notes are there, coming from Keith for anybody who cares to listen.

The best part of the performance of this song. A pity it's overshadowed by the brutal power guitar playing by Wood.

Ha! Sorry you feel that way. I would have expected you would have liked the entire first verse where he is sitting out. I think Ronnie is particularly good leading into and during the second verse, maybe gets a bit noisy toward the end, but overall a good interpretation of the dark (brutal) emotion of the song.

No, no and no again! I mean: the emotion of the song is dark, sad, lost and lonely. But as usual Ronnie Wood isn't able to convey that atmospere at all and just plays some brutal non-melodic guitar. I sure know how MT would have done it. Listen to this little snippet, to get an impression/imagination of how ...:
[www.youtube.com]

Well thanks for that clip! Yeah it was good but after hearing this and the original and I still like what Ronnie did to the first verse very much. Different, new and exciting, putting his own interpretation on the song. If he had just copied the original I would have had much less respect for him. I think this is all part of Ronnie breaking off his leash and coming into his own (after all these years).

Btw his initial playing was plenty melodic, imo, only toward the end did he begin to lose some of the finesse he started out with. Of course these thing are highly subjective and I respect and understand your views on the subject even if I don't agree with all of them.

Taylor might even have done something similar in 2015 given a chance to play the tune with the Stones. I doubt he would have played it close to the bone like that acoustic version, but unfortunately we'll never know.

I'll tell you something. The very reason why Taylor was so apt for the Stones music, be it during the 69 tour or the 73 one, was the 'fact' that he was so damned good in conveying the emotions of the songs. He was better at that than anyone other third man the Stones had (though Brain could come close at times), and it's also the very reason why so many people say that Taylor was able to elevate the songs to another level.

It's all in that special capacity of him: conveying the emotions, whatever emotions they are. And in particular it's this thing that Ronnie Wood isn't capable of. I don't judge about his Faces period, because I don't know nothing about that, and it could be the case that he was a perfect fit for The Faces because he was able to convey the emotions of their songs.

But in the Stones songs there are many emotions and Wood's 'emotional reach' (on guitar or anyway) is not big enough to convey them all. Taylor could, no matter how much he was noodling. That's the main reason why 'taylorites'/lovers of Stones music miss him so much. Especially because he and Richards complemented each other so well, Richards being more the 'male' (read: strong) factor, Taylor being the 'female' (read: subtle) one. Ronnie has neither of those factors, being, so to speak, sexless in the context of the Stones music.

Just wondered if Mick Taylor is ok.
Before this leg of the tour, Keith said this in Rolling Stone magazine.. correct me if i am wrong..

According to my sources, MT is fine, always was and that piece of information was never correct to begin with. I was a strange comment by Keith probably something he had actually heard, but that certainly doesn't make it true. It would have been nice if Keith had actually talked to MT, especially in light of what he had been told.

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Naturalust
According to my sources, MT is fine, always was and that piece of information was never correct to begin with. I was a strange comment by Keith probably something he had actually heard, but that certainly doesn't make it true. It would have been nice if Keith had actually talked to MT, especially in light of what he had been told.

But MT's "a shadow, man - he comes and goes"...

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HearMeKnockin

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Naturalust
According to my sources, MT is fine, always was and that piece of information was never correct to begin with. I was a strange comment by Keith probably something he had actually heard, but that certainly doesn't make it true. It would have been nice if Keith had actually talked to MT, especially in light of what he had been told.

But MT's "a shadow, man - he comes and goes"...

Taylor was looking very fit and healthy towards the end of the 50 celebrations.

it's entirely possible that MT is not well and your "sources" were wrong. often health problems are the last thing we tell people we are close to. for example, it's possible MT was going to go on the tour with them, got a physical, and something came up there that caused the insurance company to balk. MT might have disagreed with what was found, and yet the stones' promotor could have nixed the deal. or perhaps MT didn't tell everyone including your "sources" (you have multiple?) because he didn't want to worry them.

i'm not saying that happened, or that i have any reason to believe it did, i'm just saying it might be best not to start throwing stones without knowing the whole story. what's clear is that keith wanted to send the message that MT's absence was *not* keith's preference.

also we do know is that the final word on whether someone is healthy enough to play on a big time tour is whether the insurance company will write a policy covering them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-05 20:41 by Turner68.

Ronnie didn't say a single word about Taylor, or Bernard, they are very active on twitter yet not a single word about Mick Taylor in the last 4-5 months...

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Turner68
it's entirely possible that MT is not well and your "sources" were wrong. often health problems are the last thing we tell people we are close to. for example, it's possible MT was going to go on the tour with them, got a physical, and something came up there that caused the insurance company to balk. MT might have disagreed with what was found, and yet the stones' promotor could have nixed the deal. or perhaps MT didn't tell everyone including your "sources" (you have multiple?) because he didn't want to worry them.

i'm not saying that happened, or that i have any reason to believe it did, i'm just saying it might be best not to start throwing stones without knowing the whole story. what's clear is that keith wanted to send the message that MT's absence was *not* keith's preference.

also we do know is that the final word on whether someone is healthy enough to play on a big time tour is whether the insurance company will write a policy covering them.

Actually, we do know that MT, himself said that he is fine. It most certainly is not clear that MT's absence was not Keith's preference. It shows that he is either completely out of the information loop (see MT playing on PMSoul), or that both he and MJ are just too confrontation adverse to speak to MT personally.

This is what he wrote on his FB page, just two hours ago:


It was 46 years ago today, at around 17:25 in the afternoon, that I made my live debut with the Rolling Stones at a free outdoor festival in Hyde Park, in front of a small crowd of about 250.000 people. This would mark the band's first concert in over 2 years. Only two days prior to the gig, we had learned of Brian Jones' tragic death.
Sam Cutler introduced us with the words: 'The greatest rock & roll band in the world. They’re incredible; let’s hear it for the Stones !'
Our guitars kept going out of tune, but we somehow managed to perform our brand-new single 'Honky Tonk Women' for the first time in public.


Visitor: Why do you write "my" debut and "our" and pretend that you are MT?

Mick Taylor: "this is me, Saul".

No update on the illness, the reason he is not on tour with them this time according to Keith.
No update on the three-guitar attack either, the reason he was on tour with them last time, according to Keith.

That certainly sounds like first person MT talking to me! Glad to hear it thanks for the post LuxuryStones.

Adults not acting like adults. Sad. The lack of commenting by Wood and others is strange.

It can't be about insurance as many stars tour despite drug and constant health problems. See Jerry Garcia.

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Naturalust
That certainly sounds like first person MT talking to me! Glad to hear it thanks for the post LuxuryStones.

You're welcome, Keith.

No one in the media new about Bobby being seriously ill until the last week or so. they said he was doing fine, recovering well.

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Getondown
Adults not acting like adults. Sad. The lack of commenting by Wood and others is strange.

It can't be about insurance as many stars tour despite drug and constant health problems. See Jerry Garcia.

Not in a while

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shawnriffhard1

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Turner68
it's entirely possible that MT is not well and your "sources" were wrong. often health problems are the last thing we tell people we are close to. for example, it's possible MT was going to go on the tour with them, got a physical, and something came up there that caused the insurance company to balk. MT might have disagreed with what was found, and yet the stones' promotor could have nixed the deal. or perhaps MT didn't tell everyone including your "sources" (you have multiple?) because he didn't want to worry them.

i'm not saying that happened, or that i have any reason to believe it did, i'm just saying it might be best not to start throwing stones without knowing the whole story. what's clear is that keith wanted to send the message that MT's absence was *not* keith's preference.

also we do know is that the final word on whether someone is healthy enough to play on a big time tour is whether the insurance company will write a policy covering them.

Actually, we do know that MT, himself said that he is fine. It most certainly is not clear that MT's absence was not Keith's preference. It shows that he is either completely out of the information loop (see MT playing on PMSoul), or that both he and MJ are just too confrontation adverse to speak to MT personally.

Sometimes what celebrities say publicly is not the whole truth. And sometimes Facebook pages claiming to represent them do not, or do not always.

Maybe Richards has different ideas about "being ill"

Hey! Something strange happened to my post up here: Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: July 5, 2015 19:45. Totally out of time-order.

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LuxuryStones
Maybe Richards has a different ideas about "being ill".

Yup

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kleermaker
Hey! Something strange happened to my post up here: Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: July 5, 2015 19:45. Totally out of time-order.

I think it is because a rogue MT thread was merged into this one, kleermaker

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kleermaker

I'll tell you something. The very reason why Taylor was so apt for the Stones music, be it during the 69 tour or the 73 one, was the 'fact' that he was so damned good in conveying the emotions of the songs. He was better at that than anyone other third man the Stones had (though Brain could come close at times), and it's also the very reason why so many people say that Taylor was able to elevate the songs to another level.

It's all in that special capacity of him: conveying the emotions, whatever emotions they are. And in particular it's this thing that Ronnie Wood isn't capable of. I don't judge about his Faces period, because I don't know nothing about that, and it could be the case that he was a perfect fit for The Faces because he was able to convey the emotions of their songs.

But in the Stones songs there are many emotions and Wood's 'emotional reach' (on guitar or anyway) is not big enough to convey them all. Taylor could, no matter how much he was noodling. That's the main reason why 'taylorites'/lovers of Stones music miss him so much. Especially because he and Richards complemented each other so well, Richards being more the 'male' (read: strong) factor, Taylor being the 'female' (read: subtle) one. Ronnie has neither of those factors, being, so to speak, sexless in the context of the Stones music.

An interesting metaphor indeed. But instead of being sexless, in your context, I tend to think Ronnie might be better referred to as hopelessly androgynous....perhaps we are saying the same thing.

But I think you are on to something about the conveying of emotions. It does appear it Ronnie is greatly improving on that as of late though, imo. Perhaps because as he explores sobriety he is actually feeling more of them.

They say that a persons emotional growth stops at some point in their addictions, perhaps Keith's and MT's stopped at time when they still fit the Stones music, both were members of the Stones anyway, and Ronnie's was stopped sometime before he could grow into the somewhat unique emotion of Stone's music.

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Naturalust
That certainly sounds like first person MT talking to me! Glad to hear it thanks for the post LuxuryStones.

To be honest anyone could have posted that.
You,me or even MT.

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shortfatfanny

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Naturalust
That certainly sounds like first person MT talking to me! Glad to hear it thanks for the post LuxuryStones.

To be honest anyone could have posted that.
You,me or even MT.

keith richard's lemon tree even.

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Turner68

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Getondown
Adults not acting like adults. Sad. The lack of commenting by Wood and others is strange.

It can't be about insurance as many stars tour despite drug and constant health problems. See Jerry Garcia.

Not in a while

The Dead never took out huge insurance policies on their tours. AEG fronts most of the money for Stones tours and demand insurance and health checks. Putting MT on the 2012/2013 tour for insurance purposes was quite possibly the worst idea ever. If KR had been unable to play, MT would not have been a substitute. I think MT is a great guitarist, but without KR, there is no Rolling Stones. So it was either a bad idea, or someone within AEG is full of it. All it takes is someone who is nobody within a company to state a "fact", and then it becomes "the official word from that company".

It's all about the insurance at this point. Why do you think the tour legs are short? They are only insured for 10-15 shows at a time....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-06 03:07 by Turner68.

To explain Taylor's absence with insurance reasons is a far stretch imho. The last years, he constantly played on MR and Satisfaction plus some more or less "one-offs" like Sway, Knocking, Silver Train and, oh, Slipping Away. The show would not fall apart with Taylor being unable to play - they can do MR without him and on Satisfaction he was barely audible anyway.

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alimente
To explain Taylor's absence with insurance reasons is a far stretch imho. The last years, he constantly played on MR and Satisfaction plus some more or less "one-offs" like Sway, Knocking, Silver Train and, oh, Slipping Away. The show would not fall apart with Taylor being unable to play - they can do MR without him and on Satisfaction he was barely audible anyway.

The Taylor was there for insurance rumor is also obviously complete BS, imo. So many reasons why this should not be perpetuated.