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Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: andrewt ()
Date: June 11, 2015 07:57

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HearMeKnockin
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Nikkei
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andrewt
Wow, now I'm conflicted. I parachute into this thread and what's this I read about riff songs being boring? I love fighting the good fight for MT but good lord, Keith's riffs are everything to me. Oh my word, I think I have a touch of the vapours...I need to sit down.

triumph of deconstructivism

Dictionary.com doesn't have this as a word... it has "constructivism", so I'm guessing you mean the opposite of constructivism, which would basically be defined as unorganized chaos in every aspect... so I'm guessing that this involves the unsystematic destruction of Keith's riffs??? Finally, our moment of glory has arrived... Taylorites, emerge from your homes, and take your rightful places as Lords of Stones Fandom!!!

I was aiming for antidisestablishmentarianmetarecidivism but it's all good.
Goooo Taylor!

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: June 11, 2015 08:54

Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: June 11, 2015 09:08

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: June 11, 2015 15:26

Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: June 11, 2015 15:33

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

BB, LIB and EOMS are some of the best albums of all time. All known for great guitar playing, and they're all dominated by Keith's excellent guitar playing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-11 15:47 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: June 11, 2015 15:57

I always liked Keith's playing Kleer, and I think together with Taylor they were about the best guitar duo in rock history.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: June 11, 2015 15:57

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

BB, LIB and EOMS are some of the best albums of all time. All known for great guitar playing, and they're all dominated by Keith's excellent guitar playing.

The sound of BB and Exile does differ immensely from LIB. Also there were Brian and MT adding very much on respectively BB and Exile.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: June 11, 2015 16:00

Yeah, LIB sounds even better.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: June 11, 2015 16:02

Quote
LuxuryStones
I always liked Keith's playing Kleer, and I think together with Taylor they were about the best guitar duo in rock history.

But do you find Keith playing alone satisfying? No doubt that together with Taylor they were the best duo I know.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: June 11, 2015 16:05

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

BB, LIB and EOMS are some of the best albums of all time. All known for great guitar playing, and they're all dominated by Keith's excellent guitar playing.

Yes, sir...And LIB was before he even started his trademark open G riffing. Keith's use and layering of guitars on that record is brilliant. And of course for my money he peaks on Exile. Sublime playing and creativity. It's one thing to say that the Taylor era was best (I heartily agree). But it's another to not acknowledge Richards' absolute brilliance and vision when the Stones were firing on all cylinders creatively.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: June 11, 2015 16:07

I do take exception to LIB sounding better. Cleaner, maybe, but other than on Gimme Shelter, these songs sounded much beter when they "dirtied" them up live, particularly Rambler and LWM on Ya Yas. Of course, I love the murky mash of Exile. LIB is a bit clinical sounding to me, almost as if solid state amps were being used (although I know that wasn't the case).

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: June 11, 2015 16:12

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

BB, LIB and EOMS are some of the best albums of all time. All known for great guitar playing, and they're all dominated by Keith's excellent guitar playing.

MOJO 2002. Fellow musicians and MOJO writers determine, once and for all, the 10 Greatest STONES albums OF ALL TIME..

1. Exile On Main Street.
2. Let It Bleed.
3. Beggars Banquet.
4. Sticky Fingers.
5. Their Satanic Majesties Request.
6. Aftermath.
7. Some Girls.
8. Goats Head Soup.
9. The Rolling Stones.
10. Tatoo You

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: June 11, 2015 16:13

I agree with 71Tele. Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed is where Keith surpassed himself in terms of great guitar playing. And I think it was partly because he was basically the lone guitar player at that time; even if he didn't really like that, he did an excellent job at building these songs up with perfect, and sometimes innovative, guitar playing.

Some of the songs on those albums (esp LIcool smiley were done even better live, e.g. Midnight Rambler, Love In Vain, YCAGWYW, but some guitar parts, such as the slide on the song Let It Bleed, the guitar solo on Sympathy, or the excellent fingerpicking on Prodigal Son, have a unique quality to them that has never been topped.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: June 11, 2015 16:16

Well said! I would add LIV as well. The Taylor versions were beautiful, but they lost some of the country blues-feel that Keith provided on the album when LIV was played live.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: June 11, 2015 16:58

LIB (and Beggars) are great Stones albums.Personally I can't decide which of the great 4 is the best.
But to me Keith was on his peak in 68/69 . .

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: alimente ()
Date: June 11, 2015 17:55

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
LuxuryStones
I always liked Keith's playing Kleer, and I think together with Taylor they were about the best guitar duo in rock history.

But do you find Keith playing alone satisfying? No doubt that together with Taylor they were the best duo I know.

The R'n'R Circus live performance is a good measure; it's not exactly Keith alone, but with Brian notably "absent" by contributing nothing more than just simple basics (with the exception of No Expectations, of course), the majority of the remaining tracks sound a bit "empty" with just Keith alone. Parachute Woman is great though, but Flash, YCAGWYW and Sympathy definitely miss a second guitar player. On Let It Bleed this is covered tremendously better - of course, being a studio recording with the possibility to overdub multiple guitar parts helps a lot.

If this concept (Keith doing more or less multiple ovderdubbed guitar parts) would have worked for further albums we simply don't know, but I have my doubts. There's an outtake of Honky Tonk Women out there, missing Taylor's country-ish licks and fills, and while I love it for its roughness, it's still miles apart from the finished masterpiece.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-11 17:55 by alimente.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: June 11, 2015 18:55

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
LuxuryStones
I always liked Keith's playing Kleer, and I think together with Taylor they were about the best guitar duo in rock history.

But do you find Keith playing alone satisfying? No doubt that together with Taylor they were the best duo I know.

On BB and LIB he's doing a great job, great songs, but de definitely could have used a second player, on LIB in particular. Having said that, I cannot imagine Keith doing a solo concert, even back in the days, just instrumental. I think he was too limited for that, every Stones guitarist, actually. They are no John McLaughlin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-11 21:35 by LuxuryStones.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: June 11, 2015 18:59

Quote
LuxuryStones
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
LuxuryStones
I always liked Keith's playing Kleer, and I think together with Taylor they were about the best guitar duo in rock history.

But do you find Keith playing alone satisfying? No doubt that together with Taylor they were the best duo I know.

On BB and LIB he's doing a great job, great songs, but he [Keith] definitely could have used a second player, on LIB in particular.

That's exactly what I mean, but the Keef crowd will deny it undoubtedly.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: June 11, 2015 19:51

If you have to read the liner notes to decide how much you like a song, some of the magic of music is starting to wear off IMO.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: June 11, 2015 23:28

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

I don't know, man. I believe the band's greatest years were during Mick Taylor's tenure and that he added a HUGE amount to their sound, helping to take marvelous songs into the rock stratosphere.

But I don't see how anyone can listen to "Gimme Shelter" on LIB and claim that it is an example of a lack of "good guitar work."

I am not a musician and will defer to my betters regarding whether it is difficult to PLAY "Gimme Shelter." I actually couldn't care less whether it is hard or easy. I do have a fairly sophisticated pair of ears, though. I cross all genres of pop, rock, and jazz, and am now deeply into a 22-cd box of Bach's cantatas, which I find mindblowing.

And I will go to my grave feeling that NO GUITARIST IN THE HISTORY OF ROCK'N'ROLL delivered a more perfect performance (for the song, for the times) than did Keith Richards on the studio version of "Gimme Shelter."

He may have become a ridiculous piratic charlatan going through the motions in his dotage ... but once upon a time he was a killer and delivered "good guitar work" on a regular basis.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: obonpaxis ()
Date: June 12, 2015 01:26

Quote
71Tele
I love the murky mash of Exile. LIB is a bit clinical sounding to me, almost as if solid state amps were being used (although I know that wasn't the case).

I think that actually WAS the case. Lots of solid state Voxes and Triumph amps all over Beggars and LIB. Brittle, bright, and unforgiving.

From Muscle Shoals on, it's a mix of Fenders and Ampegs. Pretty much all "tube" for SF and Exile.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: TonyMo ()
Date: June 12, 2015 01:37

Quote
LongBeachArena72

I am not a musician and will defer to my betters

Your "betters" on this particular thread, I suspect, are largely ersatz player's who confuse technical prowess with musicality as if the two are necessarily intertwined; without ever realizing that the object of their fervid devotion is largely, technically limited.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: June 12, 2015 01:47

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

I don't know, man. I believe the band's greatest years were during Mick Taylor's tenure and that he added a HUGE amount to their sound, helping to take marvelous songs into the rock stratosphere.

But I don't see how anyone can listen to "Gimme Shelter" on LIB and claim that it is an example of a lack of "good guitar work."

I am not a musician and will defer to my betters regarding whether it is difficult to PLAY "Gimme Shelter." I actually couldn't care less whether it is hard or easy. I do have a fairly sophisticated pair of ears, though. I cross all genres of pop, rock, and jazz, and am now deeply into a 22-cd box of Bach's cantatas, which I find mindblowing.

And I will go to my grave feeling that NO GUITARIST IN THE HISTORY OF ROCK'N'ROLL delivered a more perfect performance (for the song, for the times) than did Keith Richards on the studio version of "Gimme Shelter."

He may have become a ridiculous piratic charlatan going through the motions in his dotage ... but once upon a time he was a killer and delivered "good guitar work" on a regular basis.

I like that.
And the truthiness of the first part makes me laugh and I forgive KR immediately at the same time.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: June 12, 2015 02:52

Quote
obonpaxis
Quote
71Tele
I love the murky mash of Exile. LIB is a bit clinical sounding to me, almost as if solid state amps were being used (although I know that wasn't the case).

I think that actually WAS the case. Lots of solid state Voxes and Triumph amps all over Beggars and LIB. Brittle, bright, and unforgiving.

From Muscle Shoals on, it's a mix of Fenders and Ampegs. Pretty much all "tube" for SF and Exile.

Ah, then my ears are right. It seemed to work for Gimme Shelter because of the tremelo. The brittleness somehow enhanced that track. However on the others it created a rather sterile sound, imo, which is why I just don't like the sound of that album much, even though the songs are great.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: June 12, 2015 03:24

You guys are probably right on about the LIB electric guitar sounds, but they sure nailed the acoustic sounds and percussion, imo. They were a huge part of the LIB experience for me.

peace

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: June 12, 2015 07:02

Quote
Naturalust
You guys are probably right on about the LIB electric guitar sounds, but they sure nailed the acoustic sounds and percussion, imo. They were a huge part of the LIB experience for me.

peace

Yeah, the country blues stuff on BB and LIB sounds great.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: June 12, 2015 08:28

Monkey Man, anyone?

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: June 12, 2015 09:06

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Monkey Man, anyone?

A very wise and knowledgable IORR poster had this to say about the impact of Through the Past Darkly (only one Taylor track) and LIB in 2010:

" [TTPD] was THE album (UK-version of course) that made me a life-long Stones music fan. I was about 14 years old when it was released. Of course I knew the earlier Stonessongs like Satisfaction etc., but this album caught me definitely..... Very soon after having bought TTPD I bought LIB, and that album hit me too. It sealed my fate musically, because actually I love the music of only few composers/songwriters/bands. And there's only one band I really feel musically attracted to.

About a year later I bought YaYa's. And on that album I discovered a very new and exciting element: the Taylor factor. At that time we got a very simple stereo pick-up and I remember that I almost put my head in the little speaker where you could hear Taylor the best. Albums were very expensive in those days, so it took me a while to get BB, Their Satanic, BTB, Aftermath, High Tide Green and Grass (wonderful title!), the predecessor of TTPD, and all the albums from 1964 and 1965. Boy, I was in a musical paradise back then!"


link: [www.iorr.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-12 09:08 by Turner68.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: drbryant ()
Date: June 12, 2015 09:46

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

Utterly perplexed - Gimme Shelter is not only debatably the best Stones track of all time, it's among the greatest rock tracks in history. And frankly, YCAGWYW isn't far behind. Monkey Man?

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: June 12, 2015 09:50

Quote
drbryant
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
Turner68
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Kleerie is not very fond of horns.

Had there been Mozart-esque woodwinds on LIB, perhaps he'd have approved the album, though winking smiley

;-)

There's a lack of good guitar work on LIB, showing Keith's limited guitar qualities (he could camouflage that partly by using overdubs, f.i. on the beginning of GS), which isn't compensated by Brian's instrumental input.

LWM is definitely not my song, Country Honk is a filler, YGTS is so so, and so is the title song. But GS, LIV, MR and YCAGWYW are all very great songs that are performed poorly on LIB (except the already mentioned exception), but are performed very well during the Taylor-era, because the guitars were excellent in that period.

Utterly perplexed - Gimme Shelter is not only debatably the best Stones track of all time, it's among the greatest rock tracks in history. And frankly, YCAGWYW isn't far behind. Monkey Man?

LWM? MR? LIV? LIB? YGTS?

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