Tell Me :
Talk
>
<
But... the Stones is not a blues band
Yup, sadly enough...
But wtf...some of the songs besides the blues is not to bad...
2 1 2 0
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Fair enough. I haven't heard You Gotta Move from last night yet, though..
Keep in mind that for these old men performing is a challenge in itself...
Keith's guitar playing is just basic/rhythm/riff guitar, not best guitar. Taylor was by far the best guitar player, providing melody in an unknown and very special way in relation to both the rhythm section and the vocal melody.
Yes!
The band is all about the riffs. The guy who wrote and plays the riffs is the most important guitar player in the band.
Pure nonsense. I love the tunes without a riff the most. Once the riff is played and the statement is made, it's in fact all repetition and no surprise anymore. Think about that.
Interesting. I didn't know there were Stones fans who felt that way, but your feelings about Taylor make a lot more sense in that context. I would've thought you found rock-n-roll generally pretty boring though - do you like jazz? I could listen to the Miles Davis Quintet all day.
Partly, but not completely! Those riff songs in fact kill every kind of development. For instance: Satisfaction, Brown Sugar. They're nice but quite boring actually. Compare them to the songs without such a clear riff like Gimme Shelter, Sway, Winter.
For me Let It Bleed is the proof: majestic songs, but (except the intro of GS and the title song) rather flat and boring performances (MR, YCAGWYW, MR f.i.).
I never listen to that album because I prefer the live versions of those songs immensely. The 'third' man, be it Jones or Taylor, is sorely missed on that album.
By Sympathy For The D, yes indeed. But our old friend His Majesty has once convincingly argued that Brian Jones had a substantial participation in BB and that BB and LIB are absolutely not on the same line in that respect. His argument is convincingly sustained by N. Zentgraf's info:
Line-up ‘Sympathy For The Devil’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass, bvoc)/BJ (bvoc)/BW
(maracas, bvoc)/CW (dr, bvoc)/Nicky Hopkins (p, bvoc)/Anita Pallenberg
(bvoc)/Marianne Faithfull (bvoc)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Line-up ‘No Expectations’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (perc)/
Nicky Hopkins (p)
Line-up ‘Dear Doctor’: MJ (voc, tamb)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/BW (bass)/BJ (harm)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (tack p)/Dave Mason (gtr)
Line-up ‘Parachute Woman’: MJ (voc, harm)/KR (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/BJ (harm)
Line-up ‘Jig-Saw Puzzle’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass, synth)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)
Line-up ‘Street Fighting Man’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass)/BJ (sitar, tamboura)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Dave Mason (shehnai, bass dr)
Line-up ‘Prodigal Son’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (harm)/CW (dr)
Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Line-up ‘Factory Girl’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (perc)/Rocky Dijon
(congas)/Dave Mason (mandolin)/Rick Grech (fiddle)
Line-up ‘Salt Of The Earth’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, voc)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky
Hopkins (p)/Watts Street Gospel Choir (bvoc)
So quite some imput from Brain on BB, notably on the most beautiful song of the album, No Expectations (btw: one of MT's favourite songs, and rightly so, thanks to BJ, for a big part).
@runaway
As for GS, I said that only the majestic, paintlike intro of the song is great. Once it's 'settled' it doesn't surprise anymore. I know it by heart, but the Taylor-era live versions keep surprising me, no matter how often I've listened to them.
@Turner 68
I'm talking about Stones music, not about jazz or classical music, in which far more melodic wonderments are to be experienced. Discover it. But your argument is beyond the discussion.
I swear I was going to say something like this Naturlust... but you definitely said it better than I would've, so
Is it just me or do the Stones have a bit of Grateful Dead vibe going on in that version of I'm Free? The rhythm guitar with Taylor playing those scales is certainly reminiscent of stuff the Dead did during that period, imo. I'll bet you wife likes this one too.
The Dead of course made a career of the "haunting, dreamlike excursion" and the Stones moved in a completely different direction, but the similarity on I'm Free is uncanny, imo.
peace
Enough famous (British) guitar players out there that were or are or heavily influenced by Coltrane or Miles of course.
Cool down, baby
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 10, 2015 12:23
Quote
StoneburstQuote
TonyMoQuote
DandelionPowderman
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Mick Taylor, as nice as he once played, is a dime a dozen guitar player. Anything The Stones ever did wouldn't be diminished in the least had Keith played all the parts. My preference would have been Keith doing just that thus avoiding (for me) the tediousness of CYHMK & TWFNO; to name two.
Keith has always been the more clever player in the idiom...thankfully we were spared the tinkle tinkle arpeggio's that laid on Brown Sugar before clearer heads prevailed.
What MT could play was some credible blues; especially with a tube. That's where his jones was. Fantastic stuff, and perfect for a two guitar band.
>
<Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 10, 2015 12:24
Quote
Come OnQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come OnQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come On
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Hrrmm...!!!
I meant for the Stones's guitar sound.
Hrrmm...!!! again...don't forget the sound on 'Little red Rooster' and 'No Expectation'...that was only 2 of maybe 1000 examples...We can count them (Brian and Keith's) if you want to...
OK, but Please, only the sound that could be defined as blues...
But... the Stones is not a blues band
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: June 10, 2015 12:30
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come OnQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come OnQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come On
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Hrrmm...!!!
I meant for the Stones's guitar sound.
Hrrmm...!!! again...don't forget the sound on 'Little red Rooster' and 'No Expectation'...that was only 2 of maybe 1000 examples...
OK, but Please, only the sound that could be defined as blues...
But... the Stones is not a blues band
Yup, sadly enough...
But wtf...some of the songs besides the blues is not to bad...2 1 2 0
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: June 10, 2015 13:51
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: June 10, 2015 14:01
While Keef is my favorite Stone I wouldn't say he's the "best" guitarist, although he's the most important one, given his partnership with Mick. Even Charlie said Mick T was the only real musician in the band. Think that's in the 25X5 video? Anyhow, I'm sure I heard it from his mouth.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 10, 2015 15:17
Quote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Fair enough. I haven't heard You Gotta Move from last night yet, though..
Keep in mind that for these old men performing is a challenge in itself...
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: June 10, 2015 15:56
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
Obviously perspective and context are important. I don't begrudge others for enjoying the product. Glad they are still playing. That said, the stadium hits thing has no more appeal to me. Been there, done that.
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Fair enough. I haven't heard You Gotta Move from last night yet, though..
Keep in mind that for these old men performing is a challenge in itself...
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 10, 2015 16:31
Quote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
Obviously perspective and context are important. I don't begrudge others for enjoying the product. Glad they are still playing. That said, the stadium hits thing has no more appeal to me. Been there, done that.
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Fair enough. I haven't heard You Gotta Move from last night yet, though..
Keep in mind that for these old men performing is a challenge in itself...
Keith's guitar playing is just basic/rhythm/riff guitar, not best guitar. Taylor was by far the best guitar player, providing melody in an unknown and very special way in relation to both the rhythm section and the vocal melody.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 10, 2015 16:36
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Yes!
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 10, 2015 16:41
Quote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
Obviously perspective and context are important. I don't begrudge others for enjoying the product. Glad they are still playing. That said, the stadium hits thing has no more appeal to me. Been there, done that.
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Fair enough. I haven't heard You Gotta Move from last night yet, though..
Keep in mind that for these old men performing is a challenge in itself...
Keith's guitar playing is just basic/rhythm/riff guitar, not best guitar. Taylor was by far the best guitar player, providing melody in an unknown and very special way in relation to both the rhythm section and the vocal melody.
The band is all about the riffs. The guy who wrote and plays the riffs is the most important guitar player in the band.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 10, 2015 16:48
First the cake, then the icing.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 10, 2015 17:22
Quote
Turner68Quote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HearMeKnockinQuote
TeddyB1018
I don't like any of those guitarists named above very much and it was obvious to me how different the Stones were in '75 without Mick Tatlor. The only benefit was getting to hear Keith more. Woody contributed comsiderably to the studio sound they developed in the Some Girls era, but the band was inconsistent until '81, when they got it together. The Live in Texas show is terrific, but the shows I saw in '78 were not.
Of course the best Stones guitarist ever was Mick Taylor. They should let him back on the tour to play on a bunch of songs, but the Glimmers' egos won't let them allow such a thing... And they wouldn't want to hurt the delicate feelings of Ronnie, or risk improving the stage product...
Obviously perspective and context are important. I don't begrudge others for enjoying the product. Glad they are still playing. That said, the stadium hits thing has no more appeal to me. Been there, done that.
No guitar player in the Stones has been more important for the Stones than Keith Richards. Please get that. When we say «best» in the Stones, it's AFTER Keith.
Of course that's true. Bit for some of us the thrill is gone - even from his playing - when they are no longer challenging themselves musically.
Fair enough. I haven't heard You Gotta Move from last night yet, though..
Keep in mind that for these old men performing is a challenge in itself...
Keith's guitar playing is just basic/rhythm/riff guitar, not best guitar. Taylor was by far the best guitar player, providing melody in an unknown and very special way in relation to both the rhythm section and the vocal melody.
The band is all about the riffs. The guy who wrote and plays the riffs is the most important guitar player in the band.
Pure nonsense. I love the tunes without a riff the most. Once the riff is played and the statement is made, it's in fact all repetition and no surprise anymore. Think about that.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 10, 2015 17:34
Quote
kleermakerQuote
Turner68
The band is all about the riffs. The guy who wrote and plays the riffs is the most important guitar player in the band.
Pure nonsense. I love the tunes without a riff the most. Once the riff is played and the statement is made, it's in fact all repetition and no surprise anymore. Think about that.
Interesting. I didn't know there were Stones fans who felt that way, but your feelings about Taylor make a lot more sense in that context. I would've thought you found rock-n-roll generally pretty boring though - do you like jazz? I could listen to the Miles Davis Quintet all day.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: June 10, 2015 17:35
Kleermaker, even you must admit that Keith Richards' riffs and guitar style are the very backbone of the Stones' trademark sound, no?
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 10, 2015 18:05
Quote
71Tele
Kleermaker, even you must admit that Keith Richards' riffs and guitar style are the very backbone of the Stones' trademark sound, no?
Partly, but not completely! Those riff songs in fact kill every kind of development. For instance: Satisfaction, Brown Sugar. They're nice but quite boring actually. Compare them to the songs without such a clear riff like Gimme Shelter, Sway, Winter.
For me Let It Bleed is the proof: majestic songs, but (except the intro of GS and the title song) rather flat and boring performances (MR, YCAGWYW, MR f.i.).
I never listen to that album because I prefer the live versions of those songs immensely. The 'third' man, be it Jones or Taylor, is sorely missed on that album.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 10, 2015 18:13
You must be even more bored by BB?
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 10, 2015 18:20
Kleermaker, I really suggest you check out some of the jazz greats if you haven't (I'm sure you have.)
If what you're into is melodic inventiveness in relation to rhythm and other melodic lines, the Miles Davis Quintet (and many others) are the real deal. Davis on trumpet and Coltrane on sax deliver what you describe heads and shoulders above any of the British guitar players (beck, clapton, taylor, etc) from the 60s or 70s.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-10 18:21 by Turner68.
If what you're into is melodic inventiveness in relation to rhythm and other melodic lines, the Miles Davis Quintet (and many others) are the real deal. Davis on trumpet and Coltrane on sax deliver what you describe heads and shoulders above any of the British guitar players (beck, clapton, taylor, etc) from the 60s or 70s.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-10 18:21 by Turner68.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
runaway
()
Date: June 10, 2015 18:21
The guitar parts on Beggars and Let It Bleed albums are almost entirely done by Keith, Gimme Shelter their greatest is Keith on guitar.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 10, 2015 19:02
Quote
DandelionPowderman
You must be even more bored by BB?
By Sympathy For The D, yes indeed. But our old friend His Majesty has once convincingly argued that Brian Jones had a substantial participation in BB and that BB and LIB are absolutely not on the same line in that respect. His argument is convincingly sustained by N. Zentgraf's info:
Line-up ‘Sympathy For The Devil’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass, bvoc)/BJ (bvoc)/BW
(maracas, bvoc)/CW (dr, bvoc)/Nicky Hopkins (p, bvoc)/Anita Pallenberg
(bvoc)/Marianne Faithfull (bvoc)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Line-up ‘No Expectations’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (perc)/
Nicky Hopkins (p)
Line-up ‘Dear Doctor’: MJ (voc, tamb)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/BW (bass)/BJ (harm)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (tack p)/Dave Mason (gtr)
Line-up ‘Parachute Woman’: MJ (voc, harm)/KR (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/BJ (harm)
Line-up ‘Jig-Saw Puzzle’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass, synth)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)
Line-up ‘Street Fighting Man’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bass)/BJ (sitar, tamboura)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Dave Mason (shehnai, bass dr)
Line-up ‘Prodigal Son’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (harm)/CW (dr)
Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/
CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Line-up ‘Factory Girl’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (perc)/Rocky Dijon
(congas)/Dave Mason (mandolin)/Rick Grech (fiddle)
Line-up ‘Salt Of The Earth’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, voc)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky
Hopkins (p)/Watts Street Gospel Choir (bvoc)
So quite some imput from Brain on BB, notably on the most beautiful song of the album, No Expectations (btw: one of MT's favourite songs, and rightly so, thanks to BJ, for a big part).
@runaway
As for GS, I said that only the majestic, paintlike intro of the song is great. Once it's 'settled' it doesn't surprise anymore. I know it by heart, but the Taylor-era live versions keep surprising me, no matter how often I've listened to them.
@Turner 68
I'm talking about Stones music, not about jazz or classical music, in which far more melodic wonderments are to be experienced. Discover it. But your argument is beyond the discussion.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
runaway
()
Date: June 10, 2015 19:41
@kleermaker
Besides my favourite Stones song: "Gimme Shelter", it was chosen in 2002 out of 40 RS songs by an amazing panel of great Musicians in the Uncut magazine as 1. Gimme shelter
Besides my favourite Stones song: "Gimme Shelter", it was chosen in 2002 out of 40 RS songs by an amazing panel of great Musicians in the Uncut magazine as 1. Gimme shelter
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 10, 2015 20:05
Breaking the songs down into riff ones and ones without riffs is obviously oversimplifying the Stones music experience, imo. So much else that makes the songs work (or not). Chord progressions, groove, interplay between instruments, lyrics, vocal melodies and harmonies, instrumentation, the way it is mixed, the way it is played live, etc, etc. There are plenty of tunes with a riff that still allow plenty of development in all those other areas.
I do understand, however that songs that rely too much on the riff tend to get boring in a hurry. Start Me Up is a perfect example of that for me. But Brown Sugar, while riff based, is all about the groove and the internal interplay of the instruments. It's probably why it still sounds good after 45 years while SMU makes me actually groan every time I hear the riff.
Taylor certainly wasn't all about the lead guitar he played in Stones music. He certainly added excitement in his attention to the dynamics and interplay within the songs in a way that has been missing in since his departure. No doubt Keith was very good at playing similar stuff against himself in the studio, obviously something he couldn't do playing live and Taylor provided the perfect pull to his push. That's why I value the live recording from the Taylor era more than anything that has been recorded afterward, it's not just about the riffs or the great lead playing, those are just one of many factors that make a truly good song.
peace
I do understand, however that songs that rely too much on the riff tend to get boring in a hurry. Start Me Up is a perfect example of that for me. But Brown Sugar, while riff based, is all about the groove and the internal interplay of the instruments. It's probably why it still sounds good after 45 years while SMU makes me actually groan every time I hear the riff.
Taylor certainly wasn't all about the lead guitar he played in Stones music. He certainly added excitement in his attention to the dynamics and interplay within the songs in a way that has been missing in since his departure. No doubt Keith was very good at playing similar stuff against himself in the studio, obviously something he couldn't do playing live and Taylor provided the perfect pull to his push. That's why I value the live recording from the Taylor era more than anything that has been recorded afterward, it's not just about the riffs or the great lead playing, those are just one of many factors that make a truly good song.
peace
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
HearMeKnockin
()
Date: June 10, 2015 20:22
Quote
Naturalust
Breaking the songs down into riff ones and ones without riffs is obviously oversimplifying the Stones music experience, imo. So much else that makes the songs work (or not). Chord progressions, groove, interplay between instruments, lyrics, vocal melodies and harmonies, instrumentation, the way it is mixed, the way it is played live, etc, etc. There are plenty of tunes with a riff that still allow plenty of development in all those other areas.
I do understand, however that songs that rely too much on the riff tend to get boring in a hurry. Start Me Up is a perfect example of that for me. But Brown Sugar, while riff based, is all about the groove and the internal interplay of the instruments. It's probably why it still sounds good after 45 years while SMU makes me actually groan every time I hear the riff.
Taylor certainly wasn't all about the lead guitar he played in Stones music. He certainly added excitement in his attention to the dynamics and interplay within the songs in a way that has been missing in since his departure. No doubt Keith was very good at playing similar stuff against himself in the studio, obviously something he couldn't do playing live and Taylor provided the perfect pull to his push. That's why I value the live recording from the Taylor era more than anything that has been recorded afterward, it's not just about the riffs or the great lead playing, those are just one of many factors that make a truly good song.
peace
I swear I was going to say something like this Naturlust... but you definitely said it better than I would've, so
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: June 10, 2015 20:33
I have a new favorite Mick Taylor moment with The Stones and a question for @kleermaker.
A month or so ago I scored a red vinyl copy of the old TMoQ bootleg, LIVE'r THAN YOU'LL EVER BE, which or course was recorded at one of the two Oakland shows on the US tour in Nov '69.
It wasn't by any stretch of the imagination the band's best performance that year but my god there is a ridiculously beautiful solo by Taylor on "I'm Free."
I remember having the show on a bootleg 8-track tape back in the day and driving around with friends in the middle of the night and having that come on and we'd nearly have to pull off to the side of the road.
JJF and the Berry tunes, and Rambler, and SFTD, and SFM all rocked HARD that year ... but "I'm Free" was a haunting, dreamlike excursion, a trip the band took when they had the courage to slow it down, to PLAY, to create a mood other than the adrenaline-drenched rock they were so good at it.
Taylor on "I'm Free" is exquisite.
Now, for my question for @kleermaker:
What is your favorite "I'm Free" from the '69 tour?
A month or so ago I scored a red vinyl copy of the old TMoQ bootleg, LIVE'r THAN YOU'LL EVER BE, which or course was recorded at one of the two Oakland shows on the US tour in Nov '69.
It wasn't by any stretch of the imagination the band's best performance that year but my god there is a ridiculously beautiful solo by Taylor on "I'm Free."
I remember having the show on a bootleg 8-track tape back in the day and driving around with friends in the middle of the night and having that come on and we'd nearly have to pull off to the side of the road.
JJF and the Berry tunes, and Rambler, and SFTD, and SFM all rocked HARD that year ... but "I'm Free" was a haunting, dreamlike excursion, a trip the band took when they had the courage to slow it down, to PLAY, to create a mood other than the adrenaline-drenched rock they were so good at it.
Taylor on "I'm Free" is exquisite.
Now, for my question for @kleermaker:
What is your favorite "I'm Free" from the '69 tour?
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
HearMeKnockin
()
Date: June 10, 2015 20:37
LongBeach, is that boot this version?
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: June 10, 2015 20:50
Yep!
You can hear Mick using the "no bullshit" line that he would later in the tour (at MSG among other shows) employ in the breakdown during "Satisfaction."
You can hear Mick using the "no bullshit" line that he would later in the tour (at MSG among other shows) employ in the breakdown during "Satisfaction."
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
HearMeKnockin
()
Date: June 10, 2015 20:54
That's great... it's a cool solo by Taylor. 
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 10, 2015 21:57
Quote
LongBeachArena72
It wasn't by any stretch of the imagination the band's best performance that year but my god there is a ridiculously beautiful solo by Taylor on "I'm Free."
I remember having the show on a bootleg 8-track tape back in the day and driving around with friends in the middle of the night and having that come on and we'd nearly have to pull off to the side of the road.
JJF and the Berry tunes, and Rambler, and SFTD, and SFM all rocked HARD that year ... but "I'm Free" was a haunting, dreamlike excursion, a trip the band took when they had the courage to slow it down, to PLAY, to create a mood other than the adrenaline-drenched rock they were so good at it.
Taylor on "I'm Free" is exquisite.
Is it just me or do the Stones have a bit of Grateful Dead vibe going on in that version of I'm Free? The rhythm guitar with Taylor playing those scales is certainly reminiscent of stuff the Dead did during that period, imo. I'll bet you wife likes this one too.
The Dead of course made a career of the "haunting, dreamlike excursion" and the Stones moved in a completely different direction, but the similarity on I'm Free is uncanny, imo.
peace
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: June 10, 2015 22:02
Quote
Turner68
Kleermaker, I really suggest you check out some of the jazz greats if you haven't (I'm sure you have.)
If what you're into is melodic inventiveness in relation to rhythm and other melodic lines, the Miles Davis Quintet (and many others) are the real deal. Davis on trumpet and Coltrane on sax deliver what you describe heads and shoulders above any of the British guitar players (beck, clapton, taylor, etc) from the 60s or 70s.
Enough famous (British) guitar players out there that were or are or heavily influenced by Coltrane or Miles of course.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
andrewt
()
Date: June 10, 2015 23:38
Wow, now I'm conflicted. I parachute into this thread and what's this I read about riff songs being boring? I love fighting the good fight for MT but good lord, Keith's riffs are everything to me. Oh my word, I think I have a touch of the vapours...I need to sit down.
Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 11, 2015 00:08
Quote
andrewt
Wow, now I'm conflicted. I parachute into this thread and what's this I read about riff songs being boring? I love fighting the good fight for MT but good lord, Keith's riffs are everything to me. Oh my word, I think I have a touch of the vapours...I need to sit down.
Cool down, baby
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