That was too good, ash...

This article is painful. A shadow, yes it would be so much easier if MT was just a ghost like Brian and KR didn't have to face his jealous demons face to face. Really immature, great musicians like Miles and Duane embraced greatness in others, this is high school stuff. Nobody's perfect but for Ronnie it's easier, Rolling Stones remedial method.

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DoomandGloom
This article is painful. A shadow, yes it would be so much easier if MT was just a ghost like Brian and KR didn't have to face his jealous demons face to face. Really immature, great musicians like Miles and Duane embraced greatness in others, this is high school stuff. Nobody's perfect but for Ronnie it's easier, Rolling Stones remedial method.

I don't know why you think KR's jealousy is related to MT not being on the tour. He had Mick play on Talk is Cheap and behaved on stage at least in 2013 very graciously to him.
As for embracing greatness, he's just released a version of Brown Sugar with Clapton playing on it. For Black and Blue they released an album with a number of great guitarists juxtaposed with Keith. At the rock-n-roll circus he stepped back to bass guitar so that clapton and lennon could play 6 string, a huge sign of deference.

edit: also, if you watch the chuck berry documentary he did, he swallows a lot of pride out of respect for chuck and out of the desire to get together a good performance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-05 03:10 by Turner68.

He's always been adversarial with MT. His relationship with EC and JL that's different, those are his peers. Don't get me wrong Keith is rock and roll elite, his greatness spans 5 decades but he is not satisfied. He sees himself as a great soloist, this approach has limited Woody too, KR has muscled some great, historic solos, he was a brilliant studio magician, a visionary god but in the spotlight turned up to 10 he is not near MT or EC..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-05 03:21 by DoomandGloom.

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DoomandGloom
He's always been adversarial with MT. His relationship with EC and JL that's different, those are his peers. Don't get me wrong Keith is rock and roll elite, his greatness spans 5 decades but he is not satisfied. He sees himself as a great soloist, this approach has limited Woody too, KR has muscled some great, historic solos, he was a brilliant studio magician, a visionary god but in the spotlight turned up to 10 he is not near MT or EC..

I don't really think Keith sees himself as a great soloist, perhaps when he was first banging out Chuck Berry licks he did. But think of all the truly great soloists Keith has been able to witness, you'd have to be deaf and blind not to be a bit humbled by them (in terms of soloing). I think when he found his mark as a songwriter and riff-master he was pretty clear that was his title and direction and he not only stuck with it but somewhat gave up any further attempts to become a solo master. There were years where he even spoke of soloists with a thinly veiled contempt.

I think what you guys are referring to as jealousy may be just a bit of ordinary human insecurity. Taylor was always a better overall guitarist than Keith and now days that's more apparent that ever. With Taylor up on the Stones stage no doubt a bit of insecurity creeps into both Ronnie and Keith and of course it's bound to be tad bit uncomfortable. Guitarists tend to all have a bit of competitiveness in them, I doubt Keith and Ronnie are any different.

If there were a jam session today with both Keith and Taylor present, put on the spot to play new and unknown tunes do any of us have any doubt how that would turn out? No disrespect to Keith, he still rocks the Stones setlist pretty well and I love him alot.

peace

<<I don't really think Keith sees himself as a great soloist>>

I seem to recall one of the 90s interviews with Keith where he says something to the effect of "I'm not a great soloist. I tried..."

Again, because of MT's meekness the remaining Stones have no problem giving gratuitous, backhanded insults. Imagine if Hendrix, Clapton or Beck were treated this way. MT is not a showman like Hendrix (i.e. the fedora and burning guitars) but he delivered it just as much in his own way. For the Stones he is a perfect fit.

Keith is jealous - hence the reason he hired an inferior guitarist in Ron Wood....he basically says as much in his autobiography...that he likes hanging out with Ron. Ron does have a better personality than MT for sure.

Personality gets you a long way in life that is for sure.

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stonehearted
<<I don't really think Keith sees himself as a great soloist>>

I seem to recall one of the 90s interviews with Keith where he says something to the effect of "I'm not a great soloist. I tried..."

no way he can stand in front of 100,000 people with a LP Junior during SFD in the manner he does, if he didn't think he was killing it. In it's way it's ultra cool, I'd die to see Lennon in the same way, but that's all about mystique, music matters as well and sometimes these songs and their fans deserve a really great solo from a Rolling Stone, not a side man. To me Bobby was a full fledged RS, losing him and MT changed that. Taylor doing some cameos each night would have balanced the show for us who want to hear some old style jamming

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DoomandGloom

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stonehearted
<<I don't really think Keith sees himself as a great soloist>>

I seem to recall one of the 90s interviews with Keith where he says something to the effect of "I'm not a great soloist. I tried..."

no way he can stand in front of 100,000 people with a LP Junior during SFD in the manner he does, if he didn't think he was killing it. In it's way it's ultra cool, I'd die to see Lennon in the same way, but that's all about mystique, music matters as well and sometimes these songs and their fans deserve a really great solo from a Rolling Stone, not a side man. To me Bobby was a full fledged RS, losing him and MT changed that. Taylor doing some cameos each night would have balanced the show for us who want to hear some old style jamming

Do you really think Keith is killing it on his SFD solo? I think he's just trying to get through it without a train wreck most nights. But performing an occasional solo on a song you've played hundreds of times, and basically sticking pretty close to the bone is far from being a soloist. No, I still don't believe Keith considers himself much of one. He just sometimes plays one during a Stones show. Look at the solo on that song from last night for instance, he looks like even he isn't taking himself too seriously.

peace

We as fans make these guys delusional. Ringo, he thinks he's a singer. If you meet Macca and he's a bit weird, we helped put him there.

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DoomandGloom
We as fans make these guys delusional. Ringo, he thinks he's a singer. If you meet Macca and he's a bit weird, we helped put him there.

Now that, my friend, is a fair assessment.

peace

Keith: "I'm pretty lousy, but together with Ronnie I'm better than ten".

Meh to Wood solo albums. The guitar work on A Stone's Throw is absolutely phenomenal. I happen to like Taylor's lyrics as well. Of course, it's all subjective ladies and germs.

Is there any doubt that Ronnie gives Keef comfort even though Keef can't really control Brenda? I mean no way is MT the type of guy to console, coddle or lionize Keef.... But Ronnie will.

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Getondown
Is there any doubt that Ronnie gives Keef comfort even though Keef can't really control Brenda? I mean no way is MT the type of guy to console, coddle or lionize Keef.... But Ronnie will.

if you think about the stones as 1) the singer, 2) keith, and 3) everyone else what you notice is that everyone else is extremely comfortable in their own skins - bill wyman was, charlie is, ronnie is, and of course the background guys like chuck and daryl.

we can only assume that it's an absolute nightmare to work with mick and keith, much less keep them both happy.

it would seem that the #1 qualification of a rolling stones lead guitarist would be to be able to work with mick and keith. ronnie seems to be very good at that, therefore he is the best lead guitarist for the rolling stones.

it's ok to say that and not reflect badly on mick taylor, who i think everyone, keith and ronnie included, would agree is the best lead guitarist of the group.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-05 10:09 by Turner68.

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Getondown
Is there any doubt that Ronnie gives Keef comfort even though Keef can't really control Brenda? I mean no way is MT the type of guy to console, coddle or lionize Keef.... But Ronnie will.

I think Keith gets his consoling from Patti, his coddling from Jane Rose and his lionizing from us fans. I seriously doubt he needs any more of that stuff from his band mates at this point...do you know how old he is and how long he's been doing this? Besides the power struggle between Keith and Mick ended years ago and I'm pretty sure they have basically worked out their control issues by now.

peace

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palerider22

mick taylor's guitar playing in this is extremely good, of course. what i notice more than anything, though, is how bored mick jagger looks.

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Turner68

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palerider22

mick taylor's guitar playing in this is extremely good, of course. what i notice more than anything, though, is how bored mick jagger looks.

I feel exactly the same as Jagger looks when watching the video - bored. It had been great to hear Taylor play CYHMK live with the Stones in the 70s, but in that video he sounds like someone who tries to play like Mick Taylor at this peak but lacks all the technical ability.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-05 10:39 by yeababyyea.

Eh I dont know, check 3.10 and onwards. Still 2014 was a lot better - I think. The audience doesnt seem to be bored, they sound hungry, starving for some excitement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-05 11:15 by Redhotcarpet.

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Redhotcarpet
Eh I dont know, check 3.10 and onwards. Still 2014 was a lot better - I think. The audience doesnt seem to be bored, they sound hungry, starving for some excitement.

This is nice, laidback playing. Not to be confused with "excitement". This is umbrella drinks and sea breeze, not sweaty halls and beer spills, if you get my drift

But it's nice, albeit a little too long for my tastes.

Yeah I know but it is something outside the routine.

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DandelionPowderman
Keith: "I'm pretty lousy, but together with Ronnie I'm better than ten".

One of the many myths he has propagated through the years. Does he enjoy playing with Ronnie? Obviously. Is he better? I have seen no evidence of that in 40 years.

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman
Keith: "I'm pretty lousy, but together with Ronnie I'm better than ten".

One of the many myths he has propagated through the years. Does he enjoy playing with Ronnie? Obviously. Is he better? I have seen no evidence of that in 40 years.

You haven't seen evidence of Keith being a better guiar player in the late 70s and 80s?

When did Keith play as good as this in the early 70s, and when did Taylor and Keith weave better than Ronnie and Keith did in this clip?







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-05 12:55 by DandelionPowderman.

Great clip DP I think it's more down to Keith being on fire, in charge, on top of it. BTW, you play the guitar right? I have to get that little thing Keith does there right. The best ones are when he inserts that little jazz/blues lick somewhere in a song where you dont expect it. Cant remember which one form 1981 Im thinking of but Ill post it. Let it bleed is one example. He practices it in the backstage clip from Hampton.

If I would have to chose between the Let me go clip and the Can't you hear me knockin'
clip above, I would prefer the first, although I must say it's great to have 'em both.
Mick Taylors solo in the posted clip is more exiting than the one he played at Glastonbury.
Is there anyone around who can read Mick Jaggers lips? I sure would like to know what
he's shouting to the other Mick, halfway through the solo. It sure had some impact and
gave the solo some more balls.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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Redhotcarpet
Great clip DP I think it's more down to Keith being on fire, in charge, on top of it. BTW, you play the guitar right? I have to get that little thing Keith does there right. The best ones are when he inserts that little jazz/blues lick somewhere in a song where you dont expect it. Cant remember which one form 1981 Im thinking of but Ill post it. Let it bleed is one example. He practices it in the backstage clip from Hampton.

I know indeed what you're refering to. I think Keith stated that he nicked that lick off some sax player. He also played it on Tie You Up in the ending there.

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marcovandereijk
If I would have to chose between the Let me go clip and the Can't you hear me knockin'
clip above, I would prefer the first, although I must say it's great to have 'em both.
Mick Taylors solo in the posted clip is more exiting than the one he played at Glastonbury.
Is there anyone around who can read Mick Jaggers lips? I sure would like to know what
he's shouting to the other Mick, halfway through the solo. It sure had some impact and
gave the solo some more balls.

Taste is taste, but stating that Keith was a better solo guitar player (from which this discussion was initiated) in the late 60s/early 70s simply isn't correct.

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DandelionPowderman

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marcovandereijk
If I would have to chose between the Let me go clip and the Can't you hear me knockin'
clip above, I would prefer the first, although I must say it's great to have 'em both.
Mick Taylors solo in the posted clip is more exiting than the one he played at Glastonbury.
Is there anyone around who can read Mick Jaggers lips? I sure would like to know what
he's shouting to the other Mick, halfway through the solo. It sure had some impact and
gave the solo some more balls.

Taste is taste, but stating that Keith was a better solo guitar player (from which this discussion was initiated) in the late 60s/early 70s simply isn't correct.

Has he ever equalled his solo on Sympathy on YaYa's? I don't think so.

No - keith never nailed that solo again - never the same tone and nasty licks. kind of amazing all these years.