Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Naturalust
I can't imagine he is being paid to keep quiet till all the tickets are sold but it seems that could very well be the case. I know he's been known to "disappear" for extended periods but while his name is in the media, I hope he and his management recognize opportunities it could create.

"No I'm not playing with the Stones again but you can catch me at such and such venues on these dates" would go a long way to ease my frustration on the issue and would likely be picked up by all the entertainment news sites.

peace

I can imagine that and I can also imagine that he's been paid for not performing during the Stones tour, just to remain quiet in all respects. It seems far fetched but I wouldn't rule it out.

Reality is sometimes stranger than imagination Dandy. I said: I don't rule it out, nothing more or less.

Don't you mean "truth is stranger than fiction"?

Nope

You even refuse to recite something that was written after Taylor quit, don't you?

Ah, I didn\t know that! But truth sounds more as a fact than reality seen as an abstraction. And it's just imagination, not fiction.

In Too Much Blood, kleerie.

The real quote is: "Truth, fiction, fantasy... they all strange"

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
bv

Quote
Naturalust
... after being censored in such a way...

You must be joking. I mean really joking. What censorship? At least 99.9% of all posts on IORR are still here. At ALL times... I delete may be one post per week out of thousands of posts as a moderator.

This thread was closed for a few hours. Everybody is free to open new posts and threads at any time. Having "Peace" as a signature and naming me Kim and comparing IORR to North Korea is pathetic. Peace?

Obviously you misunderstood me. For the record, I never named you Kim, never compared iorr to N. Korea, just mentioned it felt like censorship to have a thread closed and this is what it must feel like in those countries. I wasn't joking, and I'm sure others felt similarly. Just because you don't delete the posts doesn't make closing a thread any less "censored". In affect you are saying "You can't talk about this anymore" so it may be semantics but prohibiting people from talking nicely about a subject doesn't feel very good from this side of the table, especially when that topic is a big part of the Stones musical experience.

I apologize, especially since you were obviously offended by the remark. My intention was not to offend, just to make sense of the feelings I had after seeing the thread closed. Please don't make it any bigger than what it was, I felt hurt by your actions and peoples feelings shouldn't be called pathetic. I find it strange that you choose to attack me over the issue since I basically was just stating how it made me feel, and I doubt I was alone in those feelings.

As I have posted, I truly appreciate you re-opening the thread. Feel free to delete my previous comments and these, I've got no problems with it. But try to understand that where they came from was certainly NOT a personal attack on you and NOT a declaration of disrespect to iorr.

peace

Good post Naturalust and I agree and support you. Hmm except..."especially when that topic is a big part of the Stones musical experience." because that's not what this is about
And I support you as well at the same time bv but not all the way: I know it's difficult sometimes being a gatekeeper on this forum and a fan and a liason with RS inc. as well so I sympathize with you but you have to respect the freedom of speech (as long as people don't make insults and stuff).

peaceful

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Naturalust
I can't imagine he is being paid to keep quiet till all the tickets are sold but it seems that could very well be the case. I know he's been known to "disappear" for extended periods but while his name is in the media, I hope he and his management recognize opportunities it could create.

"No I'm not playing with the Stones again but you can catch me at such and such venues on these dates" would go a long way to ease my frustration on the issue and would likely be picked up by all the entertainment news sites.

peace

I can imagine that and I can also imagine that he's been paid for not performing during the Stones tour, just to remain quiet in all respects. It seems far fetched but I wouldn't rule it out.

Reality is sometimes stranger than imagination Dandy. I said: I don't rule it out, nothing more or less.

Don't you mean "truth is stranger than fiction"?

Nope

You even refuse to recite something that was written after Taylor quit, don't you?

Ah, I didn\t know that! But truth sounds more as a fact than reality seen as an abstraction. And it's just imagination, not fiction.

In Too Much Blood, kleerie.

The real quote is: "Truth, fiction, fantasy... they all strange"

The original is, I know. I couldn't pull that on kleerie, though

Quote
Dreamer

Good post Naturalust and I agree and support you. Hmm except..."especially when that topic is a big part of the Stones musical experience." because that's not what this is about
And I support you as well at the same time bv but not all the way: I know it's difficult sometimes being a gatekeeper on this forum and a fan and a liason with RS inc. as well so I sympathize with you but you have to respect the freedom of speech (as long as people don't make insults and stuff).

peaceful

Thanks for the support and understanding Dreamer. My intentions truly were benign...but the thread and topic being re-opened is the important thing for me.

Strangely as I typed this friggin' Gimme Shelter started playing on a Nature animal special call North America : "No Place to Hide"....probably one of the most used Stones songs for soundtrack work but quite surprising hearing it on this type of program. Very cool. And to stay on topic MT rocked that tune during his many live performances of it.

peace

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
Dreamer

Good post Naturalust and I agree and support you. Hmm except..."especially when that topic is a big part of the Stones musical experience." because that's not what this is about
And I support you as well at the same time bv but not all the way: I know it's difficult sometimes being a gatekeeper on this forum and a fan and a liason with RS inc. as well so I sympathize with you but you have to respect the freedom of speech (as long as people don't make insults and stuff).

peaceful

Thanks for the support and understanding Dreamer. My intentions truly were benign...but the thread and topic being re-opened is the important thing for me.

Strangely as I typed this friggin' Gimme Shelter started playing on a Nature animal special call North America : "No Place to Hide"....probably one of the most used Stones songs for soundtrack work but quite surprising hearing it on this type of program. Very cool. And to stay on topic MT rocked that tune during his many live performances of it.

peace

And even when he was just noodling around...I could listen to an hour of this...




Dallas Rehearsal

Same here! I've always loved Taylor's guitar work.

Are there any dedicated fans site for Mick Taylor and Mick Taylor only?

If not, may I suggest you all get together and build one so BV does not have to keep dealing with this non-stop adoration for a guy who quit the Stones.

I like his playing, too, be come on already.

BV doesn't have to deal with it anymore. Every thing is cool. Everybody is cool...and Mick Taylor deserves to be on this site.

Quote
indystonesfan
Are there any dedicated fans site for Mick Taylor and Mick Taylor only?

If not, may I suggest you all get together and build one so BV does not have to keep dealing with this non-stop adoration for a guy who quit the Stones.

I like his playing, too, be come on already.

In a way I agree with you. But on the other hand, the guy plays on all the meaningful Stones albums, or at least most of that golden era. He gets talked about so much because he's part of the period we talk so much about.

Quote
indystonesfan
Are there any dedicated fans site for Mick Taylor and Mick Taylor only?

If not, may I suggest you all get together and build one so BV does not have to keep dealing with this non-stop adoration for a guy who quit the Stones.

I like his playing, too, be come on already.

BV is a big Taylor fan himself, judging from his posts and excitement during the Taylor guesting period and I'm sure he can deal with it. He in fact is the author of this thread. But your trying to protect him from the "horrors" are touching. If you don't like the company I suggest you don't click on the one thread where Taylor talk is happening.

Besides , the new tour is a celebration of Sticky Fingers and I find it hard not to include MT in the adoration for that reason alone. His impact as a permanent guest for the last round of shows also makes his discussion relevant.

peace

one thing i would like to take issue with,or one person-andy johns.

i call bullshit on everything i've heard come out of this jerkoffs mouth in the last couple of months.

first it was mick taylor had turned into a diva near the end of his time with the stones.he had recorded a song in which he played all the instruments and insisted on it being released that way-
and of course big,bad andy johns had to tell him that the stones had a great bass player and drummer blah blah blah..

1.mick and keith decide which take they use for a record,not some producer or engineer.
2.i've been listening to the stones for 45 years,i've read every book,magazine article.watched every youtube video,every t.v. show and i've never,not one time heard anyone ever describe mick taylor that way.

then the big wopper-he said mick told him keith was " going down" in 73 and he had jesse ed davis ready to go..

this is so far off the charts on the bullshit meter i dont know where to begin-

1.keith wasnt even in that much trouble.the cops had over-charged him with a bunch of counts on small amounts of dope and called a mini-shotgun a "sawed off".he walked with about a $500 dollar fine.
of course jagger is stupid right? he wouldnt of asked the lawyers about this-the guy who refused to join brians band unless keith came along as well was gonna call fcking jesse ed davis to replace keith richards in the stones???

2.in other news jimmy page hurt his hand that year and robert plant had rick derringer ready to go just in case.

i think andy johns has become the stones version of artimus pyle.

It was Glyn, Lem.

glyn johns,andy johns i couldnt care less-all i know is that is a bunch of bullshit.

Sure sounds that way, but Andy is dead anyway..

Lem,

I'm sure you're aware that nothing has come out of Andy's mouth since April of 2013 when he passed away.

I also think, as DP states, you are confusing him with his brother Glyn in some cases. Specifically the Taylor as diva story.

Not sure about the other stuff but one think is certain, Andy was there and has contributed many seemingly accurate stories about the Stones. I met Andy a few times in LA and he was a colorful, opinionated dude, not above embellishing a story for entertainment value but I always got the feeling his stories were based in truth.

peace

Is there any more news or info on why he's not been invited by The Stones since a few weeks ago?

Quote
LoganWaters
To show where MJ was/is at re not having Keith onstage on a Stones tour, I offer this quote from engineer Andy Johns, in Robert Greenfield's book Ain't It Time We Said Goodbye:

I said to Mick, ‘What’s going to happen?’ And he said, ‘I think Keith’s going down. But it’s all right. I’ve got Jesse Ed Davis with his bags packed in LA. He can be on the next plane.’ Which I thought was beyond mercenary.

That was about the possibility that Keith was going to be jailed for a drug conviction before the Goats Head Soup (!) tour.

So yeah, Mick Jagger really is that cold.

again,andy johns,glyn johns,elton john,olivia newton john i dont really give a fck-this story is just stupid and you'd have to be a moron to believe it.

this happens alot -the golden age of rock and roll left alot of people in the dust.you get ex-girlfriends, ex-wives,hangers on,producers,engineers,drug dealers,managers all who lost their money from doing dope,drinking,in a divorce,with bad investments and they need money.
you get a chance to sell your story for a little cash and "we worked really hard,they were nice guys and we went our own seperate ways" doesnt get it-

gotta give us dirt,gotta give us something we haven't heard a million times,make yourself more important than you were.

combine that with the information age and the internet and you get alot of shit getting sold-i aint buyin.

depends on what kind of message board you want-a bunch of know nothings repeating crap without challenging its validity or fans who know the music,the band and its history.thats all the more important because we have alot of guests checking in because of the tour.

Quote
lem motlow

then the big wopper-he said mick told him keith was " going down" in 73 and he had jesse ed davis ready to go..

this is so far off the charts on the bullshit meter i dont know where to begin-

1.keith wasnt even in that much trouble.the cops had over-charged him with a bunch of counts on small amounts of dope and called a mini-shotgun a "sawed off".he walked with about a $500 dollar fine.
of course jagger is stupid right? he wouldnt of asked the lawyers about this-the guy who refused to join brians band unless keith came along as well was gonna call fcking jesse ed davis to replace keith richards in the stones???

Hmm, not sure of the truth of this story, not insinuating you aren't correct but playing devil's advocate... a few points that might make it seem more probable:

1. Keith himself admits that the bust uncovered a great deal of highly illegal stuff: class A drugs, paraphernalia, guns, etc...certainly the potential for looking at this as a huge problem was there, especially in light of the fact that Keith was sentenced to prison in the Redlands bust for what...letting people consume cannabis in his house? The fact that he got off so easily as you indicate and was explained in Keith's book was the mistake the cops made over the description on the gun which destroyed their credibility. I recall even Keith thought he was going away for this one. Lucky break.

2. I also think Mick and Keith were starting to separate by 1973, most say it happened around the time Mick married Bianca and Keith chose the junkie lifestyle. It seems probable Mick wasn't thinking in term of "this is the guy I want/need to work with" at that point. More like "there's holes in the ship, prepare the lifeboats". He often describes the most recent work with Keith at that time (Exile) as being very difficult and he likely saw Keith as the reason for that difficulty.

3. Mick was still probably thinking the band could be successful without Keith. His own songwriting was at it's peak, his ego was huge and Bianca was whispering in his ear. It was only a short 4 years earlier that they has successfully fired Brian, the founder and arguably leader of the Stones for similar issues. The HUGE success they experienced after that only supported the assumption that guitar player members were expendable and could be replaced.

4. Taylor admitted Mick actually called him and discussed him replacing Keith after Keith Toronto bust. That kinda kills all doubt Mick was capable of such thoughts. Admittedly Keith's situation was even more grim and Jagger had dealt with junkie Keith for a few more years, but still....

It seems outrageous with today's perspective that Mick could have talked of bring in Jesse Ed Davis but in 1973 I think the possibility was probably a bit better than we'd like to admit.

peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-16 03:57 by Naturalust.

Quote
Captainchaos
Is there any more news or info on why he's not been invited by The Stones since a few weeks ago?

I'm afraid you have to ask Mick Taylor himself.

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
lem motlow

then the big wopper-he said mick told him keith was " going down" in 73 and he had jesse ed davis ready to go..

this is so far off the charts on the bullshit meter i dont know where to begin-

1.keith wasnt even in that much trouble.the cops had over-charged him with a bunch of counts on small amounts of dope and called a mini-shotgun a "sawed off".he walked with about a $500 dollar fine.
of course jagger is stupid right? he wouldnt of asked the lawyers about this-the guy who refused to join brians band unless keith came along as well was gonna call fcking jesse ed davis to replace keith richards in the stones???

Hmm, not sure of the truth of this story, not insinuating you aren't correct but playing devil's advocate... a few points that might make it seem more probable:

1. Keith himself admits that the bust uncovered a great deal of highly illegal stuff: class A drugs, paraphernalia, guns, etc...certainly the potential for looking at this as a huge problem was there, especially in light of the fact that Keith was sentenced to prison in the Redlands bust for what...letting people consume cannabis in his house? The fact that he got off so easily as you indicate and was explained in Keith's book was the mistake the cops made over the description on the gun which destroyed their credibility. I recall even Keith thought he was going away for this one. Lucky break.

2. I also think Mick and Keith were starting to separate by 1973, most say it happened around the time Mick married Bianca and Keith chose the junkie lifestyle. It seems probable Mick wasn't thinking in term of "this is the guy I want/need to work with" at that point. More like "there's holes in the ship, prepare the lifeboats". He often describes the most recent work with Keith at that time (Exile) as being very difficult and he likely saw Keith as the reason for that difficulty.

3. Mick was still probably thinking the band could be successful without Keith. His own songwriting was at it's peak, his ego was huge and Bianca was whispering in his ear. It was only a short 4 years earlier that they has successfully fired Brian, the founder and arguably leader of the Stones for similar issues. The HUGE success they experienced after that only supported the assumption that guitar player members were expendable and could be replaced.

4. Taylor admitted Mick actually called him and discussed him replacing Keith after Keith Toronto bust. That kinda kills all doubt Mick was capable of such thoughts. Admittedly Keith's situation was even more grim and Jagger had dealt with junkie Keith for a few more years, but still....

It seems outrageous with today's perspective that Mick could have talked of bring in Jesse Ed Davis but in 1973 I think the possibility was probably a bit better than we'd like to admit.

peace

The thought of Mick seriously considering to replace Keith with another junkie is ridiculous.

Slightly off topic: I agree the Jesse Ed Davis idea is ridiculous, but I think there's an interesting series of counterfactuals to be written there on guitarists who almost got a gig with the Stones at various points in time but ultimately didn't. Not just in terms of what the band might have been like with these people, but what we learn about the Glimmers' priorities and decision making process from the fact that, in reality, Ronnie and Keith kept their jobs.

Case in point - when Ronnie's personal life was all over the papers in the aftermath of the ABB tour, there was serious talk here and elsewhere (and presumably in the band as well) as to whether he could realistically keep his job. Obviously Mick Taylor was mooted as a replacement then, but I also remember Slash being mentioned several times. Now, that wasn't as ludicrous as it might seem - not only is Slash a big Stones fan who knows all the songs and can play them to a high standard, he would have turned on hundreds of thousands of hard rock and heavy metal fans who wouldn't typically go see the Stones or buy their records. We all know that access to new audiences is the sole reason Jagger presses ahead with the (extraordinarily irritating) guest appearances trend. So the possibility must have occurred to him, but still he stuck with Ronnie. In other words, Jagger picked both loyalty to a long-serving band member and Keith's professed musical priorities over ticket sales and headlines.

I am not a fan of the Wood-era Stones, and generally don't like the way Jagger runs the band these days. But I think sometimes we - and especially Taylorites like myself - can be a little unfair to him here. If he wanted to be as cold as some people believe he is, there are many worse things he could do to those around him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-16 16:10 by Stoneburst.

Well said, Stoneburst

yeah this entire thread has got the usual far fetched speculation, old rumors, etc..
but then there are the posts like that from Stoneburst.. among others..

high quality observation, and serious discussion abounds in this thread.

oh and not to mention very thoughtful critique of the abilities of the Stones guitarists..

glad BV re-opened this ..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-16 16:25 by duke richardson.

SLASH? No... just tell me you are kidding.

Just wondering... can anyone tell me if people who love both Taylor and Slash actually exist? (Yeah I know Slash loves Taylor... and himself, probably but... this might be an exception)

Many people on this board love them both, yes.

I wouldn't call myself a fan of Slash's as such, but he's a very capable player and much more restrained and melodious than people give him credit for. You had to have real ability to get famous in the 1980s playing blues-based stuff on a Les Paul when everyone around you was into shredding. Slash did that. He also carved out a totally distinctive, instantly recognisable playing style for himself whilst not doing anything out of the ordinary in a purely technical sense. Again, that takes talent.

Quote
Stoneburst
Many people on this board love them both, yes.

I wouldn't call myself a fan of Slash's as such, but he's a very capable player and much more restrained and melodious than people give him credit for. You had to have real ability to get famous in the 1980s playing blues-based stuff on a Les Paul when everyone around you was into shredding. Slash did that. He also carved out a totally distinctive, instantly recognisable playing style for himself whilst not doing anything out of the ordinary in a purely technical sense. Again, that takes talent.

I don't think Slash's blues would have cut it, if he hadn't that Django Reinhardt-esque twist to his style.

A unique rock guitarist for sure. Too bad he eventually got (more or less) lost in the, imo, boring 90s rock sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-16 17:11 by DandelionPowderman.

what about the time Keith snarled at him in a studio for interfering with him on some track Keith was working on..

Yes, nothing he's done since G'n'R compares to that body of work. Of course that's another reason he'd probably have gone with the Stones gig had it been offered to him - even reinterpreting decades-old material would have given him a great deal more artistic direction than Velvet Revolver et al did.

Man I hate shredding like most of you, I just don't get why people think that Slash is the "anti guitar-w-anker".
Guns N'Roses, with the goat/show-off Axl Rose, sum up the worst of the 80's. Slash is boring as HELL. If anything the ultimate anti guitar-wa-nker of the era would be Johnny Marr.

Slash wouldn't be a good replacement, and I say that as a massive Stones fan (obviously) and as a gigantic GNR fan. The comparison between them that I can only think maybe people grasped onto is the way they play guitar. We all love Taylor's playing, and whether you like Slash or not, everyone that talks about him says he has a touch that makes every solo feel like he's really genuine about it. Its very fluid and its got a lot of emotion. Its what makes him different from all the other guitar players since him, who aren't bad guitarists but are less singular. When Slash plays, you know its him and 30 years down the line he still plays guitar like its the last lick he'll ever play. Thats what great about him.

But while he could play as fluidly as Taylor, I think he'd be limited. For one, I don't think his image works for the band at all. Whether you like him or not, he's an icon, and he's often cited as the last recognizable guitar player. To have that in a band WITH Keith Richards I think would only cause trouble. Slash IS the Keith of Guns N Roses. Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ronnie never stole the spotlight from Keith. I think you bring in another guitar hero, and the balance shifts. I think it would highlight how unnecessary Keith is, and I think you then get Jagger rubbing shoulders with another big name and it won't look good or work well within the band. Ronnie's great because people know who he is, but he can still kinda stick to the background, and he's so fun that he can't really be seen as a threat. Slash also plays a very different style of guitar, and likes to branch into all different genres, so for one he'd have to tailor himself to the Stones, and then he'd have to stick with that and curb his other interests. As someone that follows Slash's work, I don't think he'd like that at all.

Not that I think that was ever a credible rumor, but as a huge fan of both bands thought I'd weigh in with my opinion. I get the comparison, but they are two totally different players, and more importantly two totally different personalities that that would have been a blow up waiting to happen.