Tell Me :
Talk
Steel Wheels as well, once you go track by track it's a bit eye opening.
This. I see that album as kind of the last gasp from the creative early Wood years.
I think that's a bit of a stretch, but I can relate to what you're saying. ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.
For me, songs like Continental Drift, How Can I Stop and Laugh, I Nearly Died also show a creative band. Even Thru And Thru is breaking new ground in a way.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-03 18:08 by DandelionPowderman.
You find It Must Be Hell to be superior of How Can I Stop, Almost Hear You Sigh, Love Is Strong and Doom And Gloom? OK...
He didn't say that.
He said the first 10 go to Undercover. With your 4 we're up to 14.
Still got one as a reserve.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I like some stuff from the later albums(excluding DW), but Undercover just "smiles" with energy to me, whereas the following ones don't. Some that I do like:
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away
Jump on Top of Me
Saint of Me
Flip The Switch
She Saw Me Coming off the top of my head.
Even though I don't see UNDERCOVER as a very strong album, I also think that it is the last of the mohicaans kind of album of the 'old band'. There are experimental, current things - very different what they had done before - but still I think the sound of teh band is based on that same feel and concept they mastered in those Pathe Marconi sessions, and we had used to in SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE albums (to an extent in TATTOO YOU). Call it 'Pathe Marconi groove' or something. The modern sounds they apply there sound to me almost like a make up thing, and I have never really been too convinced of the claimed experimental, contemporary nature of the album. (Part of me thinks that Jagger was neither.) There probably are two or three tracks they clearly are trying to update their sound and sound 'different' ("Undercover of The Night", "Too Much Blood", and the experimental jam "Feel On Baby").
But that they still mostly had that 'Pathe Marconi groove' there, most of the songs sounding like were born from endless jams, which probably in 1983 started to sound stubborn, 'by-numbers' and repitive, is I think the lasting merit of UNDERCOVER - no other album ever since has been able to give us that classical Stones band effort feel - all the cylinders on. There was nothing wrong with the band (no matter how much Mick and Keith were supposedly hating each other); if the individual songs just been a bit more memorable we would have a winner there. But despite its faults, I think UNDERCOVER is clearly a better album than any of its followers. Like said, belongs to different category altogether.
It is also that kind of classical Stones album that there are so much little, interesting - almost transcendental - things going on there, that it alawys offers some new things to discover by each new listening - and still the mystery remains to ask one more listening; the mystery is never solved (I hope)... All the albums ever since have been so explicit - by almost one listening one can hearr everything one possibly can, and there would be no any mystery left...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-03 22:27 by Doxa.
An excellent analysis, Doxa! Yes, to me Under Cover is also the last album that can hold many listenings from start to end. Of course there are also good songs on later albums but they're different. UC still has that old feeling. To me it'd be easier to compile 1986-2015 album. I just thought this isn't that serious issue ;-)
Agree..... Undercover is in a different era compared to the albums from 86-06
That is very well written - always thought about this - never found these precise words for it.
Serious issue?
But before I try to make my BEST OF 1983 TO TODAY collection, I need to still dig up further the difference between UNDERCOVER and the rest... Likewise I think that they are also good songs on later albums, and that they are different. But how?
Actually I think that UNDERCOVER doesn't include very strong song-writing, or. let's say, clearly stronger songs than the later albums (except, say, "Undercover of The Night" and "She Was Hot"). I think the song-writing is rather lazy in the album actually, and some later albums - STEEL WHEELS, BRIDGES TO BABYLON - actually contain much sharper song-writing. Of course, this begs the question what a "song" actually is. With the Stones it is not just some skeleton Jagger/Richards composition, but very much constructed from the whole band effort, the way it is performed, arranged, produced, etc. There are lots of ideas - not just the basic riff, chords, melody and lyrics - going on in interesting Stones songs (the issues of credition do not belong here).
Like treaclefingers said of "Hang Fire" in its track talk, The Stones sometimes manage to make ear-pleasing and interesting pieces of music from some rather non-memorable song sketches by just the virtue of their musicianship. I think most of the songs of UNDERCOVER are like that. A damn hot band but rather mediocre song-writing or that the song themselves based on some rather half-baked jam-based ideas worked further (especially pieces like "Tie You Up", "All The Way Down", "Pretty Beat Up", "Feel On Baby"). All those songs are fascinating because of the 'groove' and hot musicianship but not because of killer riffs or memorable compositions. Of course, this is an old Stones virtue - there are things like that especially in EXILE ON MAIN STREET (even though the initial ideas, as their application, there sound more inspired and fresh).
However, in their later works the Stones seem to lost that ability to make the songs fascinating by the virtue of their band effort, and have started to rely more on the compositions themselves. To an extent DIRTY WORK and especially STEEL WHEELS sound like that the band effort, relying and believing on their idiosyncracies and instincts, isn't the natural point of departure any longer, but more like a realization of Jagger/Richards songs within the context of latest studio possibilities. The band is forced to fit to those premises and constraints. I think especially STEEL WHEELS offers rather sharp song-writing - Mick and Keith sound like really sitting down to write some complete pieces fitting for a Stones relaese - but their realization is not that exciting or memorable, but is based on some rather obvious arrangement ideas and production of late-80's (very much dated now). If one listens pieces like "Terrifying", "Almost Hear You Sigh", "Hearts For Sale" or "Rock And A Hard Place" they all sound so compact, so clear and distinct, so slick but so obvious - there is almost none left of the old craziness, vitality and attitude, of the old unpredictable chaos, which relied on nothing else than their own instincts and imagination.
The albums since then sound all the same to me: the difference between them is how good individual compositions they include. Their performance - how they are executed - doesn't save or change anything. VOODOO LOUNGE sets the theme: it is much more 'retro' than their previous albums, but sterilizes the traditional Stones sound into some sort of 'Stones for Dummies' form: (a) it offers some sort of modern ideal what constitutes a classical Stones sound and emphasizies each component crystal clearly; (b) each musical idea - any instrument and any individual sound - is so explicitly presented that a listener cannot miss any of them by just one listening. There are no 'secrets' one needs to have a multiple listenings to get them - nor there are surprises, odd choices, hidden features, anomalies... nothing to really excite imagination. No time is needed to 'get' them - it's all there, served like some fast food. In that sense VOODOO LOUNGE cannot be any further from EXILE than it is - no matter how much Don Was wanted to do his own version of that.
So to go back to the initial comparision: even though I think a song like "Saint of Me" or "Out of Control" is better as a composion - or even as a song - as, say, "All The Way Down", "Pretty Beat Up" or "Tie You Up", there is something more irrestible in the latter ones, which keep me more excited and more eager to go back them in the long run.
Okay, these were my own preliminary remarks for myself to construe a best of collection... the task is difficult...
- Doxa
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-04 11:40 by Doxa.
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Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 3, 2015 16:53
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
treaclefingers
Undercover (Of The Night)
Tie You Up
Too Tough
All The Way Down
One Hit (To The Body)
Continental Drift
Blinded By Love
Slipping Away
Blinded By Rainbows
Saint Of Me
Dangerous Beauty
Back Of My Hand
Plundered My Soul
No Spare Parts
Doom And Gloom
An extremely difficult list to pare down for me. Surprisingly perhaps lots off ABB that I wanted to include but ended up trimming, Rough Justice, SSMC, This Place Is Empty, Rain Falls Down.
Yep, same here! But, like you, I ended up including more Undercover material
Steel Wheels as well, once you go track by track it's a bit eye opening.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
StonesCat
()
Date: March 3, 2015 17:31
Quote
Tate
My 'Best Of '83 - present' would be the entire track list of Undercover. I love that album and do not put it at all in the category of the 5 LPs released in the 32 years that followed.
This. I see that album as kind of the last gasp from the creative early Wood years.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 3, 2015 17:51
Quote
StonesCatQuote
Tate
My 'Best Of '83 - present' would be the entire track list of Undercover. I love that album and do not put it at all in the category of the 5 LPs released in the 32 years that followed.
This. I see that album as kind of the last gasp from the creative early Wood years.
I think that's a bit of a stretch, but I can relate to what you're saying. ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.
For me, songs like Continental Drift, How Can I Stop and Laugh, I Nearly Died also show a creative band. Even Thru And Thru is breaking new ground in a way.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-03 18:08 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Stones Blah
()
Date: March 3, 2015 18:07
Undercover(Of The Night)
She Was Hot
Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
Feel On Baby
Too Tough
One Hit (To The Body)
Moon Is Up
The Worst
Jump On Top Of Me
Out Of Control
Saint Of Me
How Could I Stop
Laugh I Nearly Died
Look What The Cat Dragged In
Doom And Gloom
She Was Hot
Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
Feel On Baby
Too Tough
One Hit (To The Body)
Moon Is Up
The Worst
Jump On Top Of Me
Out Of Control
Saint Of Me
How Could I Stop
Laugh I Nearly Died
Look What The Cat Dragged In
Doom And Gloom
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Single Malt
()
Date: March 3, 2015 18:35
Very hard to compile this because the first 10 songs would be taken straight from Under Cover and that would leave only 5 empty spaces for the rest of the five albums 
Best of 1986-2015 would be totally different situation...
Best of 1986-2015 would be totally different situation...Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 3, 2015 18:36
Quote
Single Malt
Very hard to compile this because the first 10 songs would be taken straight from Under Cover and that would leave only 5 empty spaces for the rest of the five albums
You find It Must Be Hell to be superior of How Can I Stop, Almost Hear You Sigh, Love Is Strong and Doom And Gloom? OK...
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: March 3, 2015 20:34
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Single Malt
Very hard to compile this because the first 10 songs would be taken straight from Under Cover and that would leave only 5 empty spaces for the rest of the five albums
You find It Must Be Hell to be superior of How Can I Stop, Almost Hear You Sigh, Love Is Strong and Doom And Gloom? OK...
He didn't say that.
He said the first 10 go to Undercover. With your 4 we're up to 14.
Still got one as a reserve.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: March 3, 2015 21:02
Keys To Your Love
Sweet Neo-con
Back to Zero
Gunface
Blinded by Rainbows
Blinded by Love
Streets of Love
Sweethearts Together
Little Baby
Fight
Anyway You Look at It
Rocks Off (from Live Licks)
Biggest Mistake
This Place is Empty
[thepowergoats.com]
Sweet Neo-con
Back to Zero
Gunface
Blinded by Rainbows
Blinded by Love
Streets of Love
Sweethearts Together
Little Baby
Fight
Anyway You Look at It
Rocks Off (from Live Licks)
Biggest Mistake
This Place is Empty
[thepowergoats.com]
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
StonesCat
()
Date: March 3, 2015 21:37
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
StonesCatQuote
Tate
My 'Best Of '83 - present' would be the entire track list of Undercover. I love that album and do not put it at all in the category of the 5 LPs released in the 32 years that followed.
This. I see that album as kind of the last gasp from the creative early Wood years.
I think that's a bit of a stretch, but I can relate to what you're saying. ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.
For me, songs like Continental Drift, How Can I Stop and Laugh, I Nearly Died also show a creative band. Even Thru And Thru is breaking new ground in a way.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I like some stuff from the later albums(excluding DW), but Undercover just "smiles" with energy to me, whereas the following ones don't. Some that I do like:
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away
Jump on Top of Me
Saint of Me
Flip The Switch
She Saw Me Coming off the top of my head.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 3, 2015 22:23
Quote
StonesCatQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
StonesCatQuote
Tate
My 'Best Of '83 - present' would be the entire track list of Undercover. I love that album and do not put it at all in the category of the 5 LPs released in the 32 years that followed.
This. I see that album as kind of the last gasp from the creative early Wood years.
I think that's a bit of a stretch, but I can relate to what you're saying. ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.
For me, songs like Continental Drift, How Can I Stop and Laugh, I Nearly Died also show a creative band. Even Thru And Thru is breaking new ground in a way.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I like some stuff from the later albums(excluding DW), but Undercover just "smiles" with energy to me, whereas the following ones don't. Some that I do like:
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away
Jump on Top of Me
Saint of Me
Flip The Switch
She Saw Me Coming off the top of my head.
Even though I don't see UNDERCOVER as a very strong album, I also think that it is the last of the mohicaans kind of album of the 'old band'. There are experimental, current things - very different what they had done before - but still I think the sound of teh band is based on that same feel and concept they mastered in those Pathe Marconi sessions, and we had used to in SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE albums (to an extent in TATTOO YOU). Call it 'Pathe Marconi groove' or something. The modern sounds they apply there sound to me almost like a make up thing, and I have never really been too convinced of the claimed experimental, contemporary nature of the album. (Part of me thinks that Jagger was neither.) There probably are two or three tracks they clearly are trying to update their sound and sound 'different' ("Undercover of The Night", "Too Much Blood", and the experimental jam "Feel On Baby").
But that they still mostly had that 'Pathe Marconi groove' there, most of the songs sounding like were born from endless jams, which probably in 1983 started to sound stubborn, 'by-numbers' and repitive, is I think the lasting merit of UNDERCOVER - no other album ever since has been able to give us that classical Stones band effort feel - all the cylinders on. There was nothing wrong with the band (no matter how much Mick and Keith were supposedly hating each other); if the individual songs just been a bit more memorable we would have a winner there. But despite its faults, I think UNDERCOVER is clearly a better album than any of its followers. Like said, belongs to different category altogether.
It is also that kind of classical Stones album that there are so much little, interesting - almost transcendental - things going on there, that it alawys offers some new things to discover by each new listening - and still the mystery remains to ask one more listening; the mystery is never solved (I hope)... All the albums ever since have been so explicit - by almost one listening one can hearr everything one possibly can, and there would be no any mystery left...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-03 22:27 by Doxa.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
TheBlockbuster
()
Date: March 3, 2015 22:32
1. She Was Hot
2. One Hit (To The Body)
3. Sleep Tonight
4. Blinded By Love
5. Mixed Emotions
6. Out Of Tears
7. Moon Is Up
8. Saint Of Me (Live)
9. Already Over Me
10. How Can I Stop
11. Stealing My Heart
12. Don't Stop (Live)
13. Biggest Mistake
14. It Won't Take Long
15. Doom And Gloom
2. One Hit (To The Body)
3. Sleep Tonight
4. Blinded By Love
5. Mixed Emotions
6. Out Of Tears
7. Moon Is Up
8. Saint Of Me (Live)
9. Already Over Me
10. How Can I Stop
11. Stealing My Heart
12. Don't Stop (Live)
13. Biggest Mistake
14. It Won't Take Long
15. Doom And Gloom
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Single Malt
()
Date: March 3, 2015 22:34
Quote
DoxaQuote
StonesCatQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
StonesCatQuote
Tate
My 'Best Of '83 - present' would be the entire track list of Undercover. I love that album and do not put it at all in the category of the 5 LPs released in the 32 years that followed.
This. I see that album as kind of the last gasp from the creative early Wood years.
I think that's a bit of a stretch, but I can relate to what you're saying. ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.
For me, songs like Continental Drift, How Can I Stop and Laugh, I Nearly Died also show a creative band. Even Thru And Thru is breaking new ground in a way.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I like some stuff from the later albums(excluding DW), but Undercover just "smiles" with energy to me, whereas the following ones don't. Some that I do like:
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away
Jump on Top of Me
Saint of Me
Flip The Switch
She Saw Me Coming off the top of my head.
Even though I don't see UNDERCOVER as a very strong album, I also think that it is the last of the mohicaans kind of album of the 'old band'. There are experimental, current things - very different what they had done before - but still I think the sound of teh band is based on that same feel and concept they mastered in those Pathe Marconi sessions, and we had used to in SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE albums (to an extent in TATTOO YOU). Call it 'Pathe Marconi groove' or something. The modern sounds they apply there sound to me almost like a make up thing, and I have never really been too convinced of the claimed experimental, contemporary nature of the album. (Part of me thinks that Jagger was neither.) There probably are two or three tracks they clearly are trying to update their sound and sound 'different' ("Undercover of The Night", "Too Much Blood", and the experimental jam "Feel On Baby").
But that they still mostly had that 'Pathe Marconi groove' there, most of the songs sounding like were born from endless jams, which probably in 1983 started to sound stubborn, 'by-numbers' and repitive, is I think the lasting merit of UNDERCOVER - no other album ever since has been able to give us that classical Stones band effort feel - all the cylinders on. There was nothing wrong with the band (no matter how much Mick and Keith were supposedly hating each other); if the individual songs just been a bit more memorable we would have a winner there. But despite its faults, I think UNDERCOVER is clearly a better album than any of its followers. Like said, belongs to different category altogether.
It is also that kind of classical Stones album that there are so much little, interesting - almost transcendental - things going on there, that it alawys offers some new things to discover by each new listening - and still the mystery remains to ask one more listening; the mystery is never solved (I hope)... All the albums ever since have been so explicit - by almost one listening one can hearr everything one possibly can, and there would be no any mystery left...
- Doxa
An excellent analysis, Doxa! Yes, to me Under Cover is also the last album that can hold many listenings from start to end. Of course there are also good songs on later albums but they're different. UC still has that old feeling. To me it'd be easier to compile 1986-2015 album. I just thought this isn't that serious issue ;-)
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Tops
()
Date: March 3, 2015 22:36
Quote
Doxa
Even though I don't see UNDERCOVER as a very strong album, I also think that it is the last of the mohicaans kind of album of the 'old band'.
Agree..... Undercover is in a different era compared to the albums from 86-06
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: March 4, 2015 00:56
Quote
jamesfdouglas
Keys To Your Love
Sweet Neo-con
Back to Zero
Gunface
Blinded by Rainbows
Blinded by Love
Streets of Love
Sweethearts Together
Little Baby
Fight
Anyway You Look at It
Rocks Off (from Live Licks)
Biggest Mistake
This Place is Empty
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: March 4, 2015 04:15
1 Rough Justice
2 One Hit to the Body
3 Mixed Emotions
4 Tie You Up (The Pain of Love)
5 The Worst
6 Saint of Me
7 All the Way Down
8 Had it With You
9 Mean Disposition
10 No Spare Parts
11 Plundered My Soul
12 Claudine
13 Pretty Beat Up
14 Under the Radar
15 Gun Face
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-04 14:46 by whitem8.
2 One Hit to the Body
3 Mixed Emotions
4 Tie You Up (The Pain of Love)
5 The Worst
6 Saint of Me
7 All the Way Down
8 Had it With You
9 Mean Disposition
10 No Spare Parts
11 Plundered My Soul
12 Claudine
13 Pretty Beat Up
14 Under the Radar
15 Gun Face
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-04 14:46 by whitem8.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: March 4, 2015 04:31
<<ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.>>
Add to this, Dirty Work was the first product of the fortysomething Stones, and with the way things imploded on all fronts represents a middle age crisis for the band. And once you reach that point, there's no turning back to the way you were, unless you want to try and pretend. Consequently, the band that once was, all the way up to 1982, returned in 1989 a slick professional multinational corporation, a kind of larger than life Traveling Minstrels Incorporated, and the portfolio has been well diversified ever since.
Add to this, Dirty Work was the first product of the fortysomething Stones, and with the way things imploded on all fronts represents a middle age crisis for the band. And once you reach that point, there's no turning back to the way you were, unless you want to try and pretend. Consequently, the band that once was, all the way up to 1982, returned in 1989 a slick professional multinational corporation, a kind of larger than life Traveling Minstrels Incorporated, and the portfolio has been well diversified ever since.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: March 4, 2015 05:12
1. Undercover of the Night
2. Feel On Baby
3. Almost Hear You Sigh
4. Continental Drift
5. Break the Spell
6. Slipping Away
7. Moon is Up
8. Out of Tears
9. Flip the Switch
10.Out of Control
11.Saint of Me
12.How Can I Stop?
13.Rain Fall Down
14.Pass the Wine
15.Plundered My Soul
2. Feel On Baby
3. Almost Hear You Sigh
4. Continental Drift
5. Break the Spell
6. Slipping Away
7. Moon is Up
8. Out of Tears
9. Flip the Switch
10.Out of Control
11.Saint of Me
12.How Can I Stop?
13.Rain Fall Down
14.Pass the Wine
15.Plundered My Soul
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
The Mez
()
Date: March 4, 2015 05:18
Undercover Of The Night
She Was Hot
Mixed Emotions
Almost Hear You Sigh
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
BabyBreak It Down
Moon Is Up
Saint Of Me
Out Of Control
Don't Stop
Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
Fancyman Blues
Laugh I Nearly Died
Doom and Gloom
MEZ
She Was Hot
Mixed Emotions
Almost Hear You Sigh
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
BabyBreak It Down
Moon Is Up
Saint Of Me
Out Of Control
Don't Stop
Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
Fancyman Blues
Laugh I Nearly Died
Doom and Gloom
MEZ
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
kuenzer
()
Date: March 4, 2015 09:40
Pretty Beat Up
One Hit (To the Body)
Harlem Shuffle
Hold Back
Terrifying
Thru and Thru
Flip the Switch
Anybody Seen My Baby?
Might As Well Get Juiced
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
Streets of Love
Back of My Hand
Laugh, I Nearly Died
One Hit (To the Body)
Harlem Shuffle
Hold Back
Terrifying
Thru and Thru
Flip the Switch
Anybody Seen My Baby?
Might As Well Get Juiced
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
Streets of Love
Back of My Hand
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
caschimann
()
Date: March 4, 2015 09:49
Quote
stonehearted
<<ER and U were the last real albums from "the old" band. From DW and on there were new producers involved, as well as new musicians who would form a new touring band.>>
Add to this, Dirty Work was the first product of the fortysomething Stones, and with the way things imploded on all fronts represents a middle age crisis for the band. And once you reach that point, there's no turning back to the way you were, unless you want to try and pretend. Consequently, the band that once was, all the way up to 1982, returned in 1989 a slick professional multinational corporation, a kind of larger than life Traveling Minstrels Incorporated, and the portfolio has been well diversified ever since.
That is very well written - always thought about this - never found these precise words for it.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 4, 2015 11:13
Quote
Single Malt
Yes, to me Under Cover is also the last album that can hold many listenings from start to end. Of course there are also good songs on later albums but they're different. UC still has that old feeling. To me it'd be easier to compile 1986-2015 album. I just thought this isn't that serious issue ;-)
Serious issue?
But before I try to make my BEST OF 1983 TO TODAY collection, I need to still dig up further the difference between UNDERCOVER and the rest... Likewise I think that they are also good songs on later albums, and that they are different. But how?
Actually I think that UNDERCOVER doesn't include very strong song-writing, or. let's say, clearly stronger songs than the later albums (except, say, "Undercover of The Night" and "She Was Hot"). I think the song-writing is rather lazy in the album actually, and some later albums - STEEL WHEELS, BRIDGES TO BABYLON - actually contain much sharper song-writing. Of course, this begs the question what a "song" actually is. With the Stones it is not just some skeleton Jagger/Richards composition, but very much constructed from the whole band effort, the way it is performed, arranged, produced, etc. There are lots of ideas - not just the basic riff, chords, melody and lyrics - going on in interesting Stones songs (the issues of credition do not belong here).
Like treaclefingers said of "Hang Fire" in its track talk, The Stones sometimes manage to make ear-pleasing and interesting pieces of music from some rather non-memorable song sketches by just the virtue of their musicianship. I think most of the songs of UNDERCOVER are like that. A damn hot band but rather mediocre song-writing or that the song themselves based on some rather half-baked jam-based ideas worked further (especially pieces like "Tie You Up", "All The Way Down", "Pretty Beat Up", "Feel On Baby"). All those songs are fascinating because of the 'groove' and hot musicianship but not because of killer riffs or memorable compositions. Of course, this is an old Stones virtue - there are things like that especially in EXILE ON MAIN STREET (even though the initial ideas, as their application, there sound more inspired and fresh).
However, in their later works the Stones seem to lost that ability to make the songs fascinating by the virtue of their band effort, and have started to rely more on the compositions themselves. To an extent DIRTY WORK and especially STEEL WHEELS sound like that the band effort, relying and believing on their idiosyncracies and instincts, isn't the natural point of departure any longer, but more like a realization of Jagger/Richards songs within the context of latest studio possibilities. The band is forced to fit to those premises and constraints. I think especially STEEL WHEELS offers rather sharp song-writing - Mick and Keith sound like really sitting down to write some complete pieces fitting for a Stones relaese - but their realization is not that exciting or memorable, but is based on some rather obvious arrangement ideas and production of late-80's (very much dated now). If one listens pieces like "Terrifying", "Almost Hear You Sigh", "Hearts For Sale" or "Rock And A Hard Place" they all sound so compact, so clear and distinct, so slick but so obvious - there is almost none left of the old craziness, vitality and attitude, of the old unpredictable chaos, which relied on nothing else than their own instincts and imagination.
The albums since then sound all the same to me: the difference between them is how good individual compositions they include. Their performance - how they are executed - doesn't save or change anything. VOODOO LOUNGE sets the theme: it is much more 'retro' than their previous albums, but sterilizes the traditional Stones sound into some sort of 'Stones for Dummies' form: (a) it offers some sort of modern ideal what constitutes a classical Stones sound and emphasizies each component crystal clearly; (b) each musical idea - any instrument and any individual sound - is so explicitly presented that a listener cannot miss any of them by just one listening. There are no 'secrets' one needs to have a multiple listenings to get them - nor there are surprises, odd choices, hidden features, anomalies... nothing to really excite imagination. No time is needed to 'get' them - it's all there, served like some fast food. In that sense VOODOO LOUNGE cannot be any further from EXILE than it is - no matter how much Don Was wanted to do his own version of that.
So to go back to the initial comparision: even though I think a song like "Saint of Me" or "Out of Control" is better as a composion - or even as a song - as, say, "All The Way Down", "Pretty Beat Up" or "Tie You Up", there is something more irrestible in the latter ones, which keep me more excited and more eager to go back them in the long run.
Okay, these were my own preliminary remarks for myself to construe a best of collection... the task is difficult...
- Doxa
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-04 11:40 by Doxa.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
caschimann
()
Date: March 4, 2015 11:47
Doxa -
1st of all: Another good read from you! Good analyse!
2cnd: Of course this is difficult. BUT: Even you´ve posted your Top 15 once
you can change your mind, come back here and post a new different one the next day.
BECAUSE: When bands have to put together their best of´s, them and their management/record company are discussing the list of songs for weeks and month´s!
So take you´re time.
For me all your Top 15teens here are a big help.
I´m a bit lost in the catalogue since 1883.
And you all give me some navigation now
1st of all: Another good read from you! Good analyse!
2cnd: Of course this is difficult. BUT: Even you´ve posted your Top 15 once
you can change your mind, come back here and post a new different one the next day.
BECAUSE: When bands have to put together their best of´s, them and their management/record company are discussing the list of songs for weeks and month´s!
So take you´re time.
For me all your Top 15teens here are a big help.
I´m a bit lost in the catalogue since 1883.
And you all give me some navigation now
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 4, 2015 11:57
Aah, don't worry, caschimann, I will give a list... you just gave a good excuse to 'think out loud'... it is only 'difficult' in an inspiring way..
It is always fun to do things like that of the beloved music.
- Doxa
It is always fun to do things like that of the beloved music.- Doxa
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
bobo
()
Date: March 4, 2015 12:42
For me that would be (in no spesific order):
She Was Hot
All the Way Down
Undercover of the Night
One Hit
Had It With You
Mixed Emotions
Hearts For Sale
Hold on to Your Hat
Love Is Strong
Brand New Car
Low Down
Out of Control
Doom and Gloom
Rough Justice
Laugh I Nearly Died
She Was Hot
All the Way Down
Undercover of the Night
One Hit
Had It With You
Mixed Emotions
Hearts For Sale
Hold on to Your Hat
Love Is Strong
Brand New Car
Low Down
Out of Control
Doom and Gloom
Rough Justice
Laugh I Nearly Died
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 4, 2015 13:32
So here we go.. my TOP FIFTEEN with some explanations... The thing is that there are not many obvious choices, and some arbitrary violence is to be used...
1. Undercover of The Night
Maybe their last 'big song' - a serious try to reinvent themselves and do something big. Not probably a perfect hit, but not far.
2. She Was Hot
Just a great traditional berry rocker with surprisingly melodically rich chorus. Catchy.
3. Think I'm Going Mad
Exactly an example of how hot teh band was at the time (well, during EMOTIONAL RESCUE, actually...); as a composition nothing to write hme about, but the song just flows so naturally, the whole soundscape is just so tasty and timeless. Personally my favourite song from teh whole UNDERCOVER period.
4. Harlem Shuffle
It is a cover, and not probably adding much to the original, but we are talking about a real hit song here (and there aren't many of them in the time line we have here). Still remeber how it made an impact on dance floor back in 1986, and even people who couldn't care less about the Stones, liked it. Especially one girl...
5. Dirty Work
The only rocker in DIRTY WORK that I think works naturally and has that asked aggression.. Hints of graet old band chemistry still left, and even Jagger has some real edge and point in his voice.
6. Fancy Man Blues
It can't be more 'blues by numbers', and the band can do things like that half-sleep, but it remains to be the song I most like and listen from STEEL WHEELS period.
7. Continental Drift
Their most adventurous song of modern times... world music was a trend back then, and the Stones with a good taste related that to their own past.
8. Highwire
A failed try to be political, but I don't care - as a tune I like it, even though it is served in a bit unimaginative form, and has a demo feel in it.
9. Love Is Strong
VOODOO LOUNGE should be presented, and this one is the best of the lot. VOODOO LOUNGE in microcosmos: retro soounds and feel, sound damn attractive by a first listen, but lots its attraction quite soon. But as Stones fan who can resist that call of seirens? (Actually I like and listen "The Storm" more...)
10. Love In Vain (STRIPPED version)
Following the unplugged trend closely, STRIPPED turned out to be one of their best releases within the time line here, and this version gave a new life to an old classic. Charming.
11. Out of Control (Live Version)
Jagger's best song (for the Stones) since "Undercover of The Night". A gig highlight as well - a modern "Midnight Rambler" almost in that sense.
12. Saint of Me
By numbers and obvious as hell, but sometimes that can be turned into benefit, and the track has some rare spark of vitality and edge. Gets a bit irrating after a few listenings, though. But give it some rest, and it sounds fresh again soon. Still I wish they had used some more imagination in the studio.
13. How Can I Stop
Some modern Keith crooner ballads are a bit too obvious, but this has a real depthness and soul. It also reminds of teh old times when capturing the right feel, and giving it enough time if needed, was the major goal. Excellent musicianhip.
14. That's How Strong My Love Is (LIVE)
A stunning performance by Jagger. I think he surprised us all. Deserves to be here.
15. Doom and Gloom
Surpisingly fresh-sounding song and performance, and no doubt among teh best things they have done since UNDERCOVER.
Bubbling under: many UNDERCOVER songs, "One Hit", "Mixed Emotions" "Terrifying", "Almost hear You Sigh", some other Keith ballad, some A BIGGER BANG track, etc. etc.
A note: I left EXILE and SOME GIRLS bonus songs out.
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-04 13:48 by Doxa.
1. Undercover of The Night
Maybe their last 'big song' - a serious try to reinvent themselves and do something big. Not probably a perfect hit, but not far.
2. She Was Hot
Just a great traditional berry rocker with surprisingly melodically rich chorus. Catchy.
3. Think I'm Going Mad
Exactly an example of how hot teh band was at the time (well, during EMOTIONAL RESCUE, actually...); as a composition nothing to write hme about, but the song just flows so naturally, the whole soundscape is just so tasty and timeless. Personally my favourite song from teh whole UNDERCOVER period.
4. Harlem Shuffle
It is a cover, and not probably adding much to the original, but we are talking about a real hit song here (and there aren't many of them in the time line we have here). Still remeber how it made an impact on dance floor back in 1986, and even people who couldn't care less about the Stones, liked it. Especially one girl...
5. Dirty Work
The only rocker in DIRTY WORK that I think works naturally and has that asked aggression.. Hints of graet old band chemistry still left, and even Jagger has some real edge and point in his voice.
6. Fancy Man Blues
It can't be more 'blues by numbers', and the band can do things like that half-sleep, but it remains to be the song I most like and listen from STEEL WHEELS period.
7. Continental Drift
Their most adventurous song of modern times... world music was a trend back then, and the Stones with a good taste related that to their own past.
8. Highwire
A failed try to be political, but I don't care - as a tune I like it, even though it is served in a bit unimaginative form, and has a demo feel in it.
9. Love Is Strong
VOODOO LOUNGE should be presented, and this one is the best of the lot. VOODOO LOUNGE in microcosmos: retro soounds and feel, sound damn attractive by a first listen, but lots its attraction quite soon. But as Stones fan who can resist that call of seirens? (Actually I like and listen "The Storm" more...)
10. Love In Vain (STRIPPED version)
Following the unplugged trend closely, STRIPPED turned out to be one of their best releases within the time line here, and this version gave a new life to an old classic. Charming.
11. Out of Control (Live Version)
Jagger's best song (for the Stones) since "Undercover of The Night". A gig highlight as well - a modern "Midnight Rambler" almost in that sense.
12. Saint of Me
By numbers and obvious as hell, but sometimes that can be turned into benefit, and the track has some rare spark of vitality and edge. Gets a bit irrating after a few listenings, though. But give it some rest, and it sounds fresh again soon. Still I wish they had used some more imagination in the studio.
13. How Can I Stop
Some modern Keith crooner ballads are a bit too obvious, but this has a real depthness and soul. It also reminds of teh old times when capturing the right feel, and giving it enough time if needed, was the major goal. Excellent musicianhip.
14. That's How Strong My Love Is (LIVE)
A stunning performance by Jagger. I think he surprised us all. Deserves to be here.
15. Doom and Gloom
Surpisingly fresh-sounding song and performance, and no doubt among teh best things they have done since UNDERCOVER.
Bubbling under: many UNDERCOVER songs, "One Hit", "Mixed Emotions" "Terrifying", "Almost hear You Sigh", some other Keith ballad, some A BIGGER BANG track, etc. etc.
A note: I left EXILE and SOME GIRLS bonus songs out.
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-04 13:48 by Doxa.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 4, 2015 17:08
Doxa, you make an excellent point about UNDERCOVER. Every time I listen to it I hear something different (the only other albums that do that for me are EMOTIONAL RESCUE, EXILE and GOATS HEAD SOUP). U has a lot going on in it, in most of the songs. Lots of guitaring going on, a load of backing vocals with more life than possibly any other album (She Was Hot, Tie Me Up, Feel On Baby, It Must Be Hell). That's not the case with anything since, especially VOODOO LOUNGE. Was wanted to make EXILE 2? He failed. VL is very flat. Sonically it sounds a thousand times better than STEEL WHEELS but it's just Stones-by-numbers boring. "Oh here's another bright awful sounding acoustic guitar".
The only song with any presence to it is Love Is Strong - probably because they had 8 amps miced up and kept using different tracks of the same guitar lines throughout the song due to mic placement for tone quality. I Go Wild would be second. The rest? Awful. Compare possibly one of the more standard songs on EXILE, Casino Boogie, to... not really sure, I guess ALL of VL and what do you have? Casino, albeit quite a simple song, has a swampy vamp going on in it. It has texture, a kind of heave to it. It's also audibly filthy yet clear as a cloudless day. Nothing on VL has anything remotely close to that, any of that, of which is all in that one song on EXILE that's not in any song on VL.
The only other LP that comes close to the sonicscape of U is ER, seeing that U is the actual proper follow up to ER. And in that sense combined U is the last actual inventive Stones album proper. The following two after it are not... they're just the Stones on cruise control.
The only song with any presence to it is Love Is Strong - probably because they had 8 amps miced up and kept using different tracks of the same guitar lines throughout the song due to mic placement for tone quality. I Go Wild would be second. The rest? Awful. Compare possibly one of the more standard songs on EXILE, Casino Boogie, to... not really sure, I guess ALL of VL and what do you have? Casino, albeit quite a simple song, has a swampy vamp going on in it. It has texture, a kind of heave to it. It's also audibly filthy yet clear as a cloudless day. Nothing on VL has anything remotely close to that, any of that, of which is all in that one song on EXILE that's not in any song on VL.
The only other LP that comes close to the sonicscape of U is ER, seeing that U is the actual proper follow up to ER. And in that sense combined U is the last actual inventive Stones album proper. The following two after it are not... they're just the Stones on cruise control.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: March 4, 2015 18:58
1. undercover of the night
2. she was hot
3. almost hear you sigh
4. highwire
5. love is strong
6. like a rolling stone
7. gunface
8. already over me
9. laugh i nearly died
10. infamy
11. rough justice
12. this place is empty
13. rainfall down
14. plundered my soul
15. doom and gloom
2. she was hot
3. almost hear you sigh
4. highwire
5. love is strong
6. like a rolling stone
7. gunface
8. already over me
9. laugh i nearly died
10. infamy
11. rough justice
12. this place is empty
13. rainfall down
14. plundered my soul
15. doom and gloom
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: March 4, 2015 19:05
best from 1974-81.
time waits for no one
if you cant rock me
fingerprint file
crazy mama
memory motel
far away eyes
shattered
some girls
emotional rescue
shes so cold
dance
slave
waiting on a friend
little t and a
neighbours
time waits for no one
if you cant rock me
fingerprint file
crazy mama
memory motel
far away eyes
shattered
some girls
emotional rescue
shes so cold
dance
slave
waiting on a friend
little t and a
neighbours
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
Pete66
()
Date: March 4, 2015 23:49
My top 15, and no, I don't think Undercover is that great an album.
Undercover of the night
One hit to the body
Mixed emotions
Almost hear you sigh
Blinded by love
Fancyman blues
Highwire!
Love is strong
The worst
Not fade away - stripped
You don't have to mean it
Saint of me
Thief in the night
Rough justice
Let me down slow
Pete.
Undercover of the night
One hit to the body
Mixed emotions
Almost hear you sigh
Blinded by love
Fancyman blues
Highwire!
Love is strong
The worst
Not fade away - stripped
You don't have to mean it
Saint of me
Thief in the night
Rough justice
Let me down slow
Pete.
Re: Rolling Stones "Best of 1983 to today"
Posted by:
caschimann
()
Date: March 5, 2015 17:39
We have already up 30 to "Best of Stones 1983 to Today" albums here.
Each of them very interesting.
In the end I will hanlde all entries as a mini-poll.
Filtering out the "The definite IORR Best of 1983 to present-album"
Each of them very interesting.
In the end I will hanlde all entries as a mini-poll.
Filtering out the "The definite IORR Best of 1983 to present-album"
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