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Redhotcarpet
71Tele I agree about how Keith later on, by Exile, develops his own style. And more so in 1975/1976.

I think he had his own style down by 1971 with BS. But he didn't get to explore it fully on stage before 1975

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
71Tele I agree about how Keith later on, by Exile, develops his own style. And more so in 1975/1976.

I think he had his own style down by 1971 with BS. But he didn't get to explore it fully on stage before 1975

As I see it, Keith built the foundation of his open tuning style in 68.

The tricks and voicings that "make" Sugar (and all open G anthems) are all there in Street Fighting man, just to make an example.

When Keith and Ry first met, both were into open tunings: only Keith was "specialized" in E/D, while Ry loved open G.

Admittedly, Keith then and there fell in love with the sound of open G. This was THE main factor of their encounter.

What I imagine happened next is that within 10 minutes since Keith tried open G himself, he understood that you can adapt open E fingerings to open G just moving everything one string up (it is no rocket science, I made the same "groundbreaking" discovery when I started studying open E coming from open G).

Ok, Keith also learnt 3 / 4 licks from Ry. So what? As pointed out by many here above, just every guitarist in the world does the same!

Is this "ripping off"?

No way. I am convinced that we would have Exile even if Keith never met Ry (although very likely all guitars would have been in open D/E). And it would have sold millions all the same.

C

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liddas

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
71Tele I agree about how Keith later on, by Exile, develops his own style. And more so in 1975/1976.

I think he had his own style down by 1971 with BS. But he didn't get to explore it fully on stage before 1975

As I see it, Keith built the foundation of his open tuning style in 68.

The tricks and voicings that "make" Sugar (and all open G anthems) are all there in Street Fighting man, just to make an example.

When Keith and Ry first met, both were into open tunings: only Keith was "specialized" in E/D, while Ry loved open G.

Admittedly, Keith then and there fell in love with the sound of open G. This was THE main factor of their encounter.

What I imagine happened next is that within 10 minutes since Keith tried open G himself, he understood that you can adapt open E fingerings to open G just moving everything one string up (it is no rocket science, I made the same "groundbreaking" discovery when I started studying open E coming from open G).

Ok, Keith also learnt 3 / 4 licks from Ry. So what? As pointed out by many here above, just every guitarist in the world does the same!

Is this "ripping off"?

No way. I am convinced that we would have Exile even if Keith never met Ry (although very likely all guitars would have been in open D/E). And it would have sold millions all the same.

C

It took awhile before he developed his playing with it, though. For instance, he didn't remove the e-string right away. He played the HP-gig with six strings. I'm still not sure whether he removed it for the first US gigs in 1969. JJF sounds very bass-heavy for a 5-stringer.

He probably had his style down earlier, and perhaps it's more correct to say that the first evident KR-style original and developed open G-playing could be heard on SF (HTW lends too much from Cooder's licks. No crime, just the dubious side of "the antenna" at work ).

Interested what people think of Keith removing the low D string on his open G tuned guitars. Lazy and limiting? Or innovative and inspiring?

I've never had any problems with it ringing out when unwanted, it's pretty simple just to not strike it or mute it, and I like the ability to get that low bass note when going to the 5th chord. But I've never actually removed the string so maybe there is some other hidden benefits.. peace

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DandelionPowderman

It took awhile before he developed his playing with it, though. For instance, he didn't remove the e-string right away. He played the HP-gig with six strings. I'm still not sure whether he removed it for the first US gigs in 1969. JJF sounds very bass-heavy for a 5-stringer.

He probably had his style down earlier, and perhaps it's more correct to say that the first evident KR-style original and developed open G-playing could be heard on SF (HTW lends too much from Cooder's licks. No crime, just the dubious side of "the antenna" at work ).

If the caption of this pic is correct, no 6th string in 1969!





C

Does it say when in 1969?

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DandelionPowderman
Does it say when in 1969?

No. But I found another one at page 29 of the let it bleed book by Ethan Russell. This one shows the full band in action so the "clothes experts " might give us a clue




C

On the 1969 Ed Sullivan show Keith has a string dangling prominently from his Dan Armstrong,
showing that he cared about authenticity even in playback :E

In his otherwise good book on Brian, I think Paul has the tale inside out where it comes to Richards/Cooder style open G.

Detailed argument in paragraph 5 here

[onlyrockandroll.london]

best

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AmpegVT22
In his otherwise good book on Brian, I think Paul has the tale inside out where it comes to Richards/Cooder style open G.

Detailed argument in paragraph 5 here

[onlyrockandroll.london]

best

There are more facets to Keith and the open tuning than that of Cooder's style, which he also adapted. Both are right, in a way. On SFM we hear a huge part of what would become Keith's contribution to "Mark II", but the more intricate details from Cooder would be used on HTW and a few others.

But it was the core from SFM he would use the most in his playing, and what would define him as a riff guitarist - and SFM isn't even in open G with 5 strings

The only inspiration from Brian, and his use of open tuning, would perhaps be from Mona, where he didn't use a slide?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-06 10:21 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
71Tele I agree about how Keith later on, by Exile, develops his own style. And more so in 1975/1976.

I think he had his own style down by 1971 with BS. But he didn't get to explore it fully on stage before 1975

Yes. Exactly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-06 10:51 by Redhotcarpet.

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liddas

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DandelionPowderman

It took awhile before he developed his playing with it, though. For instance, he didn't remove the e-string right away. He played the HP-gig with six strings. I'm still not sure whether he removed it for the first US gigs in 1969. JJF sounds very bass-heavy for a 5-stringer.

He probably had his style down earlier, and perhaps it's more correct to say that the first evident KR-style original and developed open G-playing could be heard on SF (HTW lends too much from Cooder's licks. No crime, just the dubious side of "the antenna" at work ).

If the caption of this pic is correct, no 6th string in 1969!





C

This is 1970, not 1969. He didn't get the second Armstrong before the 1970 tour.

Mathijs

Thanks, Mathijs

HEre are the photos I was talking about yesterday. Not sure if they are 69 or 70, but sure the 6th sring is missing!

C

Here's one from 1969 with 6 strings

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DandelionPowderman
Here's one from 1969 with 6 strings

But wasn't he using the Armstrong only for standard tuning?

C

Actually, this pic is a screenshot from JJF in NYC 69.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-06 13:14 by DandelionPowderman.