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DandelionPowderman

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triceratops

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Redhotcarpet
Yes and he came to that conclusion the minute he was shown the LP cover of iorr without the co-credits he was promised. By a journalist. After MT told him he'd finally get a couple of co-credits on that album. I thiunk he was young, v e r y gifted but also naive.

It had been building and this was the final straw. He would have stayed otherwise, for a least a few more years.

When did he say that?

This is only my opinion.

Thanks. I wondered if I missed something

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triceratops

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DandelionPowderman

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triceratops

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Redhotcarpet
Yes and he came to that conclusion the minute he was shown the LP cover of iorr without the co-credits he was promised. By a journalist. After MT told him he'd finally get a couple of co-credits on that album. I thiunk he was young, v e r y gifted but also naive.

It had been building and this was the final straw. He would have stayed otherwise, for a least a few more years.

When did he say that?

This is only my opinion.

I think that's a pretty spot on opinion myself.

Had he gotten the song writing credits, I would wager he would have stayed. Perhaps though he was right and might not have made it out of the 70s, so maybe it did work out for the best.

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treaclefingers

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triceratops

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DandelionPowderman

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triceratops

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Redhotcarpet
Yes and he came to that conclusion the minute he was shown the LP cover of iorr without the co-credits he was promised. By a journalist. After MT told him he'd finally get a couple of co-credits on that album. I thiunk he was young, v e r y gifted but also naive.

It had been building and this was the final straw. He would have stayed otherwise, for a least a few more years.

When did he say that?

This is only my opinion.

I think that's a pretty spot on opinion myself.

Had he gotten the song writing credits, I would wager he would have stayed. Perhaps though he was right and might not have made it out of the 70s, so maybe it did work out for the best.

Could be spot on, could be utterly wrong...

However, had I quit a band because I felt under-appreciated or exploited (as many here strongly believe Taylor was), I would have given that as the reason for quitting. But that's me...

Mick Taylor you could ve played with the stones and done your own thing... idiot...

MT would not be the first or last person to quit a job (in music, an office or a factory) because they felt their contributions were being ignored by co-workers or credit for them taken by co-workers. Sick of the boss (Keith). And not enamored with the quality of life and compromises the job has brought with it.

I have quite jobs over less....and none of my bosses was a junkie.

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buffalo7478
MT would not be the first or last person to quit a job (in music, an office or a factory) because they felt their contributions were being ignored by co-workers or credit for them taken by co-workers. Sick of the boss (Keith). And not enamored with the quality of life and compromises the job has brought with it.

I have quite jobs over less....and none of my bosses was a junkie.

Without saying why?

And don't forget he was six years younger than the youngest band members, which back then was a big gap.
So I'm sure he had that "I'll show them what youngblood can do to this band, I'm gonna kick their arse" attitute when he joined the band.

Then he hardly played on LIB and some of his guitar parts on GYYO were erased or redone by Keith. A bad 1st year in the band... and that was just the beginning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-02 18:15 by dcba.

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dcba
And don't forget he was six years younger than the youngest band members, which back then was a big gap.
So I'm sure he had that "I'll show them what youngblood can do to this band, I'm gonna kick their arse" attitute when he joined the band.

Then he hardly played on LIB and some of his guitar parts on GYYO were erased or redone by Keith. A bad 1st year in the band... and that was just the beginning.

dcba at his finest

Yes, millions of Stones fans think Taylor kicked ass in '69 and onwards, thanks to the greatest R&R band in the world that supported him musically.

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DandelionPowderman

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buffalo7478
MT would not be the first or last person to quit a job (in music, an office or a factory) because they felt their contributions were being ignored by co-workers or credit for them taken by co-workers. Sick of the boss (Keith). And not enamored with the quality of life and compromises the job has brought with it.

I have quite jobs over less....and none of my bosses was a junkie.

Without saying why?

It was documented someplace, later, that Taylor had mentioned at least the concern of his own drug abuse and Jagger had suggested taking time off (not quitting) and then coming back. I took that to mean a take a short break..not a few years of course... My own impression over the years, informed by some Wyman and Jagger quotes here and there, is this band never communicated well with each other, except musically. It doesn't surprise me that Taylor didn't pitch a bitch directly with Jagger over allegedly being promised a couple of songwriting credits.

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treaclefingers

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triceratops

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DandelionPowderman

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triceratops

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Redhotcarpet
Yes and he came to that conclusion the minute he was shown the LP cover of iorr without the co-credits he was promised. By a journalist. After MT told him he'd finally get a couple of co-credits on that album. I thiunk he was young, v e r y gifted but also naive.

It had been building and this was the final straw. He would have stayed otherwise, for a least a few more years.

When did he say that?

This is only my opinion.

I think that's a pretty spot on opinion myself.

Had he gotten the song writing credits, I would wager he would have stayed. Perhaps though he was right and might not have made it out of the 70s, so maybe it did work out for the best.

That opinion is perhaps backed up somewhat a Taylor confidant somewhere.. (his ex wife? someone?) At least an indication that Taylor had shortly after quitting phoned them up a few times to see if they needed any help etc.. I don't know that he really regretted his decision to leave exactly, and this is before it would've become clear how much sustained success the Stones would still have and how much money had been sacraficed or how humble Taylor's solo carreer would pan out... but it seems fairly reasonable to suspect Taylor might've wanted his cake and eaten in too up to a point... who wouldn't really?

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DandelionPowderman

Keith told Taylor when NOT to play. That's well-documented

Yeah he said "Mick, sit out for the next 8" and Mick thought he meant years instead of bars.

It's pretty clear to me that Mick was just tired of sitting around for so long, doing nothing. Long breaks between touring, long breaks waiting for Keith to wake up and get the right take. Long periods of absolute boredom can get to anyone. Obviously not good for a drug addict with a pocketful of money.

He talks about it being a sterile period for the Stones and how he wanted to get away from the crazy people that were always around the band. Anybody who's seen the CS Blues film can see that the people around the band were often pretty scary. I don't imagine it had gotten much better by 1975. That soundguy tapping the mic was probably still tapping the mic at the party when Taylor quit.

Like Stoneburst says above, the combination of reasons MT left made perfect sense when we look back at it. But if I had to sum it up in one word it would be "Keith". peace

I agree, except for your last sentence. I really can't see any proof of Taylor quitting because of Keith. The only thing remotely pointing that way is something Jagger phrased more like a question in 2010.

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DandelionPowderman
I agree, except for your last sentence. I really can't see any proof of Taylor quitting because of Keith. The only thing remotely pointing that way is something Jagger phrased more like a question in 2010.

Well one could argue most of the other reasons were significantly related to Keith.

1. Heroin problems.....Keith's influence.
2. Songwriting credits.....Keith's (and Mick's) policy.
3. Too much idle waiting time....Keith's standard.
4. Not enough creative freedom...Keith's band.
et. al

peace

1. He didn't get on with Keith.
2. His own drug problems had become serious.
3. His wife nagged him to leave.
4. He was feeling unappreciated given that he had worked closely with Jagger on so many songs and not received credit.
5. He wanted to play that fusion style of music, which was unfortunately in vogue at the time.

6. Nobody thought the Stones (and Keith) would last much longer, let alone for another 40 years.
7. He was young, sensitive and more easily pissed off, according to himself in some recent interview. (Who isn't more sensitive and impulsive in younger years.)

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
I agree, except for your last sentence. I really can't see any proof of Taylor quitting because of Keith. The only thing remotely pointing that way is something Jagger phrased more like a question in 2010.

Well one could argue most of the other reasons were significantly related to Keith.

1. Heroin problems.....Keith's influence.
2. Songwriting credits.....Keith's (and Mick's) policy.
3. Too much idle waiting time....Keith's standard.
4. Not enough creative freedom...Keith's band.
et. al

peace

Most of those points go for Mick as well, including the smack.

I wonder if Mick Taylor himself gives a shit by now.

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DandelionPowderman

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
I agree, except for your last sentence. I really can't see any proof of Taylor quitting because of Keith. The only thing remotely pointing that way is something Jagger phrased more like a question in 2010.

Well one could argue most of the other reasons were significantly related to Keith.

1. Heroin problems.....Keith's influence.
2. Songwriting credits.....Keith's (and Mick's) policy.
3. Too much idle waiting time....Keith's standard.
4. Not enough creative freedom...Keith's band.
et. al

peace

Most of those points go for Mick as well, including the smack.

Really? Can't imagine Mick was much of an influence there. But I've read that Keith was the defacto music manager of the Stones at that time and since MT wasn't contributing vocally or lyrically, I'm guessing he was the one somehow limiting Taylor's creative input. Based on songs like Moonlight Mile and Sway it seemed Jagger was more open to his contributions. peace

Mick collaborated with Ry Cooder and that provoked Keith. Mick had coworked with Taylor. And Billy. And Matt. And others. I dont think Jagger was the reason Taylor quit. Maybe Jagger wanted to give him cowriting credits and Keith said no.

not a team player. like Clapton.. great musician but not a team player like Ronnie.

Look up the thread about MJ and drugs.

Keith's role as "musical manager" waned after Exile, and Taylor could work more closely with MJ in the studio when Keith wasn't around. But I doubt that Taylor found that situation better than when the whole band was working together. And it was only on very few songs - a couple of songs on SF and GHS. Keith was back on every song on IORR, including TWFNO where he plays the first solo, acoustic guitar and sings back up vocals.

So I'm not sure if the "you're no good in the studio" or Mick's "I'm not sure if he got along with Keith"-quotes are enough for speculating on Keith being the main reason for his departure.

With only a tiny fragment of songs, where he claimed credits, I'm not sure about the songwriting theory, either.

There probably were many reasons.

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DandelionPowderman
Look up the thread about MJ and drugs.
.

Ok No problem. Remember what the thread was called? Thx. peace

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SweetThing
That opinion is perhaps backed up somewhat a Taylor confidant somewhere.. (his ex wife? someone?) At least an indication that Taylor had shortly after quitting phoned them up a few times to see if they needed any help etc.. I don't know that he really regretted his decision to leave exactly, and this is before it would've become clear how much sustained success the Stones would still have and how much money had been sacraficed or how humble Taylor's solo carreer would pan out... but it seems fairly reasonable to suspect Taylor might've wanted his cake and eaten in too up to a point... who wouldn't really?

Never seen this anywhere. The opposite seems more likely.
There were reports that Taylor would not answer calls from the Stones org after he left.

Also, Taylor very recently recounted that in '77 Jagger asked if Taylor would sub for Richards if Richards were indisposed. Taylor said he dismissed the question.

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71Tele
3. His wife nagged him to leave.

I'd read this before, but if you read the
Robin Millar link I posted above, he
reports that he and Rose tried to get
Taylor to change his mind.

Perhaps each reason and story is
subject to Newton's third law of motion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-03 05:58 by smokeydusky.

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smokeydusky

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SweetThing
That opinion is perhaps backed up somewhat a Taylor confidant somewhere.. (his ex wife? someone?) At least an indication that Taylor had shortly after quitting phoned them up a few times to see if they needed any help etc.. I don't know that he really regretted his decision to leave exactly, and this is before it would've become clear how much sustained success the Stones would still have and how much money had been sacraficed or how humble Taylor's solo carreer would pan out... but it seems fairly reasonable to suspect Taylor might've wanted his cake and eaten in too up to a point... who wouldn't really?

Never seen this anywhere. The opposite seems more likely.
There were reports that Taylor would not answer calls from the Stones org after he left.

Also, Taylor very recently recounted that in '77 Jagger asked if Taylor would sub for Richards if Richards were indisposed. Taylor said he dismissed the question.

He still had money in 1977. I think the loss of potential big money and fame is what causes most people to project MT's regret over leaving the Stones. I've never heard him convincingly say he ever regretted his decision. Most people want to believe he did because of their own inability to believe someone could give all that up. I respect his decision, even more so because of what he gave up. peace

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duke richardson
not a team player. like Clapton.. great musician but not a team player like Ronnie.

You Sir are so right...... When I listen to Brussels affair I'm thinking..... "That Mick Taylor sounds amazing, but he sure isn't a team player!

When I listen to Still life I'm thinking....... "Ronnie Wood sounds shit, but he sure does take one for the team."

8. He was not a founding member like the others, and so didn't so much feel the "we're in it together until we die" attitude.

Like Clapton, he'd been in and left successful/renowned bands before and likely didn't feel that he should be tied down to one band for the rest of his life. When the well of inspiration went dry, it would be time to go prospecting for other sources. Ron Wood has remained for so long because from the very start from the early sixties, he longed to be a Rolling Stone. Mick Taylor surely never felt that way. He is more a... wandering spirit.

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DandelionPowderman
Keith was back on every song on IORR, including TWFNO where he plays the first solo, acoustic guitar and sings back up vocals.

What? You sure about that?

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smokeydusky
Also, Taylor very recently recounted that in '77 Jagger asked if Taylor would sub for Richards if Richards were indisposed. Taylor said he dismissed the question.

I remember reading this too, only I'm 99.9% sure the version I came across had Taylor answering Jagger in the affirmative (he says no at first, then is eventually persuaded). I'm also unsure that the source for this was an interview with Taylor - in my mind it's someone or other writing about the Stones circle during the Pay, Pack & Follow sessions?