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paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Quote
Dan

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

All the papers are now picking up on this story ..........

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
paulywaul
All the papers are now picking up on this story ..........

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

sounds like the new legislation might help but doesn't go far enough:

"A proposed amendment to the Consumer Rights Bill would force secondary sellers to tell customers how much the ticket initially went for, who they are buying it from, and whether it is being sold in contravention of its terms and conditions."

They will still get huge mark ups even with these disclosures, I don't get it. Am I missing something?

What they need to stop is the primary ticket sellers selling huge chunks of tickets directly to secondary marketers. The public should have a chance to buy them all and if companies and other organizations want large block they should be completely excluded from reselling them, with huge fines and blacklisted from ever doing it again.

peace

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
paulywaul
All the papers are now picking up on this story ..........

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

sounds like the new legislation might help but doesn't go far enough:

"A proposed amendment to the Consumer Rights Bill would force secondary sellers to tell customers how much the ticket initially went for, who they are buying it from, and whether it is being sold in contravention of its terms and conditions."

They will still get huge mark ups even with these disclosures, I don't get it. Am I missing something?

What they need to stop is the primary ticket sellers selling huge chunks of tickets directly to secondary marketers. The public should have a chance to buy them all and if companies and other organizations want large block they should be completely excluded from reselling them, with huge fines and blacklisted from ever doing it again.

peace

Fully agree. Helpful ... but not far enough.

The trouble is that the government itself doesn't see the need for either change in the way the secondary market operates at the least, or total abolition of the secondary market phenomenon at the most. But ... and this is the good bit, they will probably have to relent under an increasingly loud clamour from the public and also promoters and artists themselves. Think about it. That increasingly loud clamour simply wouldn't be there if everything was hunky dory and people were in general happy with the state of affairs as it exists at the moment. They are obviously not. THE PEOPLE SPEAK !!

One way or the other, the ways in which the secondary market operates at the moment and some of the practices pursued by the four companies that are the biggest players in it are unquestionably numbered. The big four (GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, STUBHUB, VIAGOGO) will fight change and imposition of constraining legislation to the bitter death, because they make too much money out of what is essentially a deceitful rip-off as practiced at the moment ... but they'd better get used to the idea of what is coming, because coming it is !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

[www.eventmagazine.co.uk]

[legalbeagles.info]

[www.musiclawupdates.com]

[www.lincolnshireecho.co.uk]

And so on and so on ................

So if there's people on this board (and over the years that I personally have been banging on about this issue I've noticed there's lots) that still retain the opinion that there's nothing wrong with the secondary market and it's just driven by basic laws of supply and demand and it's merely capitalism in action and all those sorts of arguments, then you're probably a bit out of step these days with mainstream public opinion.

The participant players in the secondary market and the primary vendors with whom they all too obviously strike deals for "bulk purchase" of tickets have cooked their own goose. Too stupid, too greedy, and too tempted to fleece the public with ever greater levels of wilful deceit and malpractice. Well guess what ? All good things come to an end, and the good run they had for their money over the years ... f***ing you and me over ... is shortly going to come to an end.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-12 19:55 by paulywaul.

It's very simple,these company's are scumbags and they need to be stopped from operating because the reason so many people have trouble getting tickets is simply because these company's have bought loads of them before the general public has had a chance to buy them.

Nate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-12 16:04 by Nate.

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Nate
It's very simple,these company's are scumbags and they need to be stopped from operating because the reason so many people have trouble getting tickets is simply because these company's have bought loads of them before the general public has had a chance to buy them.

Nate

Correct ... and yet these very same companies still like to project themselves as fan friendly and providing a useful service for "fan to fan" ticket exchange. I mean ... exactly HOW stupid do they think the general public are ? At 09:00 on any given day tickets go on sale from the primary vendor. At 09:00 and 15 seconds entire blocks are sold out and/or not available. At 09:00 and a few minutes, seats within those very same blocks start appearing at grossly inflated prices on all four re-sellers' sites.

Hmm ... and the public is expected to believe that dozens and dozens of such seats have been bought by genuine artist loving fans who within ten minutes of buying them have suddenly realised they have a doctor's or dentist's appointment on that day and can't go, therefore they will have to resell the ticket(s). What planet are these imbeciles on ?

My only frustration with this issue is that it's taken this many years to reach the point at which finally something looks like it's about to be done to curb this practice and these excesses.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Hmm ... and the public is expected to believe that dozens and dozens of such seats have been bought by genuine artist loving fans who within ten minutes of buying them have suddenly realised they have a doctor's or dentist's appointment on that day and can't go, therefore they will have to resell the ticket(s). What planet are these imbeciles on ?


That pretty much describes the real problem, imo. Hoping someone will specifically address this issue because I don't see much changing until they do.

peace

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Naturalust
Hmm ... and the public is expected to believe that dozens and dozens of such seats have been bought by genuine artist loving fans who within ten minutes of buying them have suddenly realised they have a doctor's or dentist's appointment on that day and can't go, therefore they will have to resell the ticket(s). What planet are these imbeciles on ?


That pretty much describes the real problem, imo. Hoping someone will specifically address this issue because I don't see much changing until they do.

peace

This whole issue (ticket resale reform) was debated in the UK parliament today, I'm curious to know whether the motion to force the secondary market sites to (among other things) disclose proper "product information" (i.e. block, row, seat, face value, and so on) when they list tickets for sale was successfully carried or not. If it was, this will have some slight effect, it will at least allow consumers to clearly see what they're being asked to pay an inflated price for, as opposed to just coughing up the money and being expected to merely be satisfied with what they're given. In all venues, some seat/rows within certain blocks are simply crap, you wouldn't want to sit there even if the f***ing ticket cost was face value. If the ticket cost is inflated, chances are you'd be even less keen on sitting there - so it is entirely reasonable for you to expect that whoever is trying to sell you one or more tickets at significantly over face value provides the full product information. Why in the hell should you should expect to be provided with anything less than that ? These secondary sites behave as if row/seat number information is some great bloody secret that needs to be maintained and is in some way a proprietary issue and that the security of the seller is compromised if you (the buyer) were to be privy to it. WHAT a crock of s**t, how they can keep a straight face whilst maintaining that line is quite honestly beyond my comprehension, in fact it is surely beyond the comprehension of any sane and rational person.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-12 21:22 by paulywaul.

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paulywaul

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Dan

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paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

Quote
treaclefingers

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paulywaul

Quote
Dan

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Where is Europe when you need it by the way? Markets are organised and regulated in Brussels more than in London, Berlin, Paris et cetera.

Just one exemple from Germany, in german.
[www.sueddeutsche.de]

While any step in the right direction would be nice, I don't see how any of it would help with what's described here:

Ticketing specialist Reg Walker explains: "This is organised and on an industrial scale. I think everyone at one time or another has tried to purchase tickets online, [and] simply not been able to get through because they are blocked out from the system by touts harvesting tickets in bulk using extremely sophisticated software.

"The software hits the primary ticket agent's system with a high-speed connection with multiple identities - different names, different credit cards, different addresses, different email address. It just simply pounds the system far faster than you or I can actually fill out our details.

This doesn't require collusion from the primary ticket seller or the artist. The tickets are not hived off in big blocks, or prevented from ever appearing in the public sale at all, but the system cannot tell that out of 100 sales to 100 "different people", 95 are to resellers.

The proposed new rules may force the tout to describe his wares more accurately (good - although I've seen it suggested that if exact row/seat details are published, the venue will take the opportunity to identify and cancel any ticket that is seen to be offered for resale). But it doesn't stop him from jumping the queue and getting his hands on all those tickets in the first place - which is the real problem.

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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Dan

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paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

I was addressing a very specific point within this post. Your attempt to broaden what I was saying is interesting, but entirely irrelevant.

You should learn to shut up and listen, if you have that ability.

If not, carry on with your rant but please don't have an aneurysm.

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

Quote
Dan

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

I was addressing a very specific point within this post. Your attempt to broaden what I was saying is interesting, but entirely irrelevant.

You should learn to shut up and listen, if you have that ability.

If not, carry on with your rant but please don't have an aneurysm.

Cite something contributory and of value and relevance to the subject of this thread and I will gladly listen. Regrettably you choose not to do that ... hence you elicit the kind of response from me that you seem to find so objectionable. Meanwhile, I will most certainly not shut up ... if that's alright with you of course ? Freedom of speech and expression ? Heard of it ? New concept to some, quite likely to catch on in my opinion ........ !

You might wish to look up the definition of the word "rant" ? Posting links to press articles on the subject of ticket resale reform hardly constitutes a rant. Not only do I not lose any sleep over this issue, but - I can assure you - I am not heading for an aneurysm either. But in the spirit of reciprocity, I thank you profusely for your concern !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
Green Lady
While any step in the right direction would be nice, I don't see how any of it would help with what's described here:

Ticketing specialist Reg Walker explains: "This is organised and on an industrial scale. I think everyone at one time or another has tried to purchase tickets online, [and] simply not been able to get through because they are blocked out from the system by touts harvesting tickets in bulk using extremely sophisticated software.

"The software hits the primary ticket agent's system with a high-speed connection with multiple identities - different names, different credit cards, different addresses, different email address. It just simply pounds the system far faster than you or I can actually fill out our details.

This doesn't require collusion from the primary ticket seller or the artist. The tickets are not hived off in big blocks, or prevented from ever appearing in the public sale at all, but the system cannot tell that out of 100 sales to 100 "different people", 95 are to resellers.

The proposed new rules may force the tout to describe his wares more accurately (good - although I've seen it suggested that if exact row/seat details are published, the venue will take the opportunity to identify and cancel any ticket that is seen to be offered for resale). But it doesn't stop him from jumping the queue and getting his hands on all those tickets in the first place - which is the real problem.

You are absolutely correct.

Very interesting to read, that business about how it all works, namely this .....

"The software hits the primary ticket agent's system with a high-speed connection with multiple identities - different names, different credit cards, different addresses, different email address. It just simply pounds the system far faster than you or I can actually fill out our details".

Live & learn huh ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

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treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

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Dan

Quote
paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

I was addressing a very specific point within this post. Your attempt to broaden what I was saying is interesting, but entirely irrelevant.

You should learn to shut up and listen, if you have that ability.

If not, carry on with your rant but please don't have an aneurysm.

Cite something contributory and of value and relevance to the subject of this thread and I will gladly listen. Regrettably you choose not to do that ... hence you elicit the kind of response from me that you seem to find so objectionable. Meanwhile, I will most certainly not shut up ... if that's alright with you of course ? Freedom of speech and expression ? Heard of it ? New concept to some, quite likely to catch on in my opinion ........ !

You might wish to look up the definition of the word "rant" ? Posting links to press articles on the subject of ticket resale reform hardly constitutes a rant. Not only do I not lose any sleep over this issue, but - I can assure you - I am not heading for an aneurysm either. But in the spirit of reciprocity, I thank you profusely for your concern !!

what great advice paulywaul! glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized.

here is the definition of rant...you may decide for yourself whether your tirade fits within that definition:

rant
rant/Submit
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim; More
noun
noun: rant; plural noun: rants
1.
a spell of ranting; a tirade.
"his rants against organized religion"
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside; literaryphilippic
"he went into a rant about them"

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

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Dan

Quote
paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

I was addressing a very specific point within this post. Your attempt to broaden what I was saying is interesting, but entirely irrelevant.

You should learn to shut up and listen, if you have that ability.

If not, carry on with your rant but please don't have an aneurysm.

Cite something contributory and of value and relevance to the subject of this thread and I will gladly listen. Regrettably you choose not to do that ... hence you elicit the kind of response from me that you seem to find so objectionable. Meanwhile, I will most certainly not shut up ... if that's alright with you of course ? Freedom of speech and expression ? Heard of it ? New concept to some, quite likely to catch on in my opinion ........ !

You might wish to look up the definition of the word "rant" ? Posting links to press articles on the subject of ticket resale reform hardly constitutes a rant. Not only do I not lose any sleep over this issue, but - I can assure you - I am not heading for an aneurysm either. But in the spirit of reciprocity, I thank you profusely for your concern !!

what great advice paulywaul! glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized.

here is the definition of rant...you may decide for yourself whether your tirade fits within that definition:

rant
rant/Submit
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim; More
noun
noun: rant; plural noun: rants
1.
a spell of ranting; a tirade.
"his rants against organized religion"
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside; literaryphilippic
"he went into a rant about them"

<<< glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized >>> Huh ? O please, is making comments like this representative of the lowly and infantile depths to which you have to resort just because someone has a different point of view to yours ? Grow up !

Here's some news to brighten your day however. The motion to amend the consumer rights bill as described earlier in this thread was not carried in the voting that took place on Monday 12th, so for the time being the operators in the secondary market can continue to perpetrate their injustices and unfairness upon the public.

Happy now ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Sorry to hear that the legislation didn't pass. At least there is more awareness of the issues now, maybe a small groundswell which will erupt in future change.

I expect the best results can and must be initiated by the artists themselves. If the Stones demanded a certain ticket selling practice, the promoters and sellers would have no choice but to comply.

For now just another sad case of greedy businessmen negatively impacting the music entertainment industry.

peace

Quote
Naturalust
Sorry to hear that the legislation didn't pass. At least there is more awareness of the issues now, maybe a small groundswell which will erupt in future change.

I expect the best results can and must be initiated by the artists themselves. If the Stones demanded a certain ticket selling practice, the promoters and sellers would have no choice but to comply.

For now just another sad case of greedy businessmen negatively impacting the music entertainment industry.

peace

Ticket scalpers = insurance for promoters.

The whole ticket business is really shady and that's just when you talk about primary distribution via official sellers, like the whole first available worst available scam at moment of sale.

The Stones (and many others) benefit from ticket scalping. When scalpers are charging $1000+ for prime seats, it makes the hard sell $500 back of floor tickets look like a bargain.

But concert tickets are like any other product and service. The best advantages go to the educated consumer. I go to 200+ events a year and never overpay for anything.

And why do so many shows go on sale when most people are at work? Not everyone works at places with unlimited unsupervised internet access.

Quote
Naturalust
Sorry to hear that the legislation didn't pass. At least there is more awareness of the issues now, maybe a small groundswell which will erupt in future change.

I expect the best results can and must be initiated by the artists themselves. If the Stones demanded a certain ticket selling practice, the promoters and sellers would have no choice but to comply.

For now just another sad case of greedy businessmen negatively impacting the music entertainment industry.

peace

There's definitely a groundswell of opinion that "things as they are ain't right", hence the call for legislation and change. The call for it was defeated this time, but it'll get through eventually ... one has to believe that the good invariably triumphs over the bad in the end. It just might take a while in this particular instance and context.

Meanwhile, we live to fight another day !! Keep smiling ........ and not allowing yourself to get royally f***ed royal by SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, VIAGOGO, and STUBHUB in the process !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-16 21:07 by paulywaul.

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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Dan

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paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

I was addressing a very specific point within this post. Your attempt to broaden what I was saying is interesting, but entirely irrelevant.

You should learn to shut up and listen, if you have that ability.

If not, carry on with your rant but please don't have an aneurysm.

Cite something contributory and of value and relevance to the subject of this thread and I will gladly listen. Regrettably you choose not to do that ... hence you elicit the kind of response from me that you seem to find so objectionable. Meanwhile, I will most certainly not shut up ... if that's alright with you of course ? Freedom of speech and expression ? Heard of it ? New concept to some, quite likely to catch on in my opinion ........ !

You might wish to look up the definition of the word "rant" ? Posting links to press articles on the subject of ticket resale reform hardly constitutes a rant. Not only do I not lose any sleep over this issue, but - I can assure you - I am not heading for an aneurysm either. But in the spirit of reciprocity, I thank you profusely for your concern !!

what great advice paulywaul! glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized.

here is the definition of rant...you may decide for yourself whether your tirade fits within that definition:

rant
rant/Submit
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim; More
noun
noun: rant; plural noun: rants
1.
a spell of ranting; a tirade.
"his rants against organized religion"
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside; literaryphilippic
"he went into a rant about them"

<<< glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized >>> Huh ? O please, is making comments like this representative of the lowly and infantile depths to which you have to resort just because someone has a different point of view to yours ? Grow up !

Here's some news to brighten your day however. The motion to amend the consumer rights bill as described earlier in this thread was not carried in the voting that took place on Monday 12th, so for the time being the operators in the secondary market can continue to perpetrate their injustices and unfairness upon the public.

Happy now ?

Oh man you are just so angry.

The only thing I actually questioned, was the actual 'need' to pay the astronomical price, vs. just saying no. If everyone just said "screw you, I'm not paying that", the market would adjust accordingly.

I refused to go to the Stones last time...I wasn't going to pay $600 for a good ticket. I got lucky and got 85s so I went and was happy to have gone.

There are a lot of injustices in the world so I guess I'm just a bit less concerned whether someone is trying to burn me on the ticket. It might annoy me but I think there are bigger fish to fry, but that is of course only my opinion.

But don't paint me as being pleased with the state of affairs, I only suggested I think that one doesn't NEED to do this. I stand corrected, you apparently do NEED to.

I will now vacate your thread, as differences of opinion aren't exactly welcome by the looks of it.

HAVE FUN!

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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treaclefingers

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paulywaul

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Dan

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paulywaul

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swiss
OT?

Well if you've ever been forced to buy a Stones ticket off either GETMEIN, SEATWAVE, VIAGOGO, or STUBHUB (as I have on a tiny handful of occasions) ... then it's hardly OT - is it ?

No one is ever forced to do anything

Speak for yourself ! I have been forced to resort to the secondary market in order to procure a ticket or two for something I've wanted to go to, and if the entire phenomenon either didn't exist or at least perhaps operated with greater transparency - then the likelihood is that I wouldn't have had to have done !

Saying "no-one is ever forced to do anything" is absurd. Do you work ? Do you do it because it amuses you, or do you do it because if you didn't - you'd starve ? Unless you're independently wealthy, I suspect it might be because of the latter ....

A difference between wanting and needing something.

You need to eat. You don't 'need' to give all your money to Mick.

You may want to, but you don't need to.

You're obviously reluctant to take my point onboard, so let me explain it once again so that even you can understand it ...........

Actually I DO need to give my money to Mick in return for attending a Stones concert. What I however also DO need to do is to be given a chance to give it to Ticketmaster or Seetickets, and the amount of it I give them represents the face value on the ticket plus their service charge ............ and not some arbitrary figure conjured up out of the imagination of either SEATWAVE, GETMEIN, STUBHUB, or VIAGOGO. And the current system doesn't allow me to do that, the opportunity to have a fair crack at getting tickets is simply denied to me - indeed to everyone.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting something unreasonable here, perhaps consider the pressure that millions (yes - literally millions) of people throughout the land have applied incrementally over the years that has led to this issue being debated in parliament yesterday, the issue being that of "ticket resale reform".

You're the one that's out of step with mainstream thinking my friend - not I !!

I was addressing a very specific point within this post. Your attempt to broaden what I was saying is interesting, but entirely irrelevant.

You should learn to shut up and listen, if you have that ability.

If not, carry on with your rant but please don't have an aneurysm.

Cite something contributory and of value and relevance to the subject of this thread and I will gladly listen. Regrettably you choose not to do that ... hence you elicit the kind of response from me that you seem to find so objectionable. Meanwhile, I will most certainly not shut up ... if that's alright with you of course ? Freedom of speech and expression ? Heard of it ? New concept to some, quite likely to catch on in my opinion ........ !

You might wish to look up the definition of the word "rant" ? Posting links to press articles on the subject of ticket resale reform hardly constitutes a rant. Not only do I not lose any sleep over this issue, but - I can assure you - I am not heading for an aneurysm either. But in the spirit of reciprocity, I thank you profusely for your concern !!

what great advice paulywaul! glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized.

here is the definition of rant...you may decide for yourself whether your tirade fits within that definition:

rant
rant/Submit
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim; More
noun
noun: rant; plural noun: rants
1.
a spell of ranting; a tirade.
"his rants against organized religion"
synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside; literaryphilippic
"he went into a rant about them"

<<< glad your medical condition is stable or has stabilized >>> Huh ? O please, is making comments like this representative of the lowly and infantile depths to which you have to resort just because someone has a different point of view to yours ? Grow up !

Here's some news to brighten your day however. The motion to amend the consumer rights bill as described earlier in this thread was not carried in the voting that took place on Monday 12th, so for the time being the operators in the secondary market can continue to perpetrate their injustices and unfairness upon the public.

Happy now ?

Oh man you are just so angry.

The only thing I actually questioned, was the actual 'need' to pay the astronomical price, vs. just saying no. If everyone just said "screw you, I'm not paying that", the market would adjust accordingly.

I refused to go to the Stones last time...I wasn't going to pay $600 for a good ticket. I got lucky and got 85s so I went and was happy to have gone.

There are a lot of injustices in the world so I guess I'm just a bit less concerned whether someone is trying to burn me on the ticket. It might annoy me but I think there are bigger fish to fry, but that is of course only my opinion.

But don't paint me as being pleased with the state of affairs, I only suggested I think that one doesn't NEED to do this. I stand corrected, you apparently do NEED to.

I will now vacate your thread, as differences of opinion aren't exactly welcome by the looks of it.

HAVE FUN!

<<< Oh man you are just so angry >>>

Correction. The word you were looking for but failed to utilise is disappointed ......

<<< If everyone just said "screw you, I'm not paying that", the market would adjust accordingly >>>

If only it were so simple. The trouble is, the purchase and re-selling of tickets to pretty much everything these days is on such a monumental (industrial sized let us say) scale, that venues would be half empty if the entire concert going or sports fixture attending public would adopt that position, and indeed ... then the prices would possibly adjust accordingly. Unfortunately, the big four companies that participate in this racket are so well entrenched nowadays that many people suffer from the ignorance of not knowing the difference between the primary vendors like Ticketmaster/Seetickets/Eventim - and the secondary market operators like Getmein/Seatwave/Viagogo/Stubbub. That is more than unfortunate, that is downright tragic, and it's one of the reasons why there will never likely be a mass public boycott - the likes of which you mention.

Never mind, like with all things, the people (and I'm one of them) calling for change will yet have their day, and I'm reasonably confident that some form of government intervention in the form of legislation (whether it be an amendment to the consumer rights bill or something even more constraining) will ultimately prevail. A certain degree of momentum - at least in this country - has built up, I'm inclined to think it's somewhat unstoppable in the end.

Vacating the thread ? See ya then, bye ......

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Here's an interesting article (and indeed phenomenon) ........

The article is old, but I'd never heard of Twickets ? Any one else heard of it ?

[www.theguardian.com]

Last week fans of Wilko Johnson were up in arms when tickets to the terminally ill Dr Feelgood star's final London shows appeared on secondary ticketing sites, selling for 10 times the £20 face value.

Secondary ticketing sites such as Viagogo, Seatwave and GetMeIn are part of a very lucrative business.

They charge the seller 10% of the sale price, and the buyer 15%, which means they would make £50 off that £200 Wilko Johnson ticket.

And unlike Johnson they don't have to pay musicians, a lighting engineer, sound engineers and roadies, as well as for hotel rooms and food for the crew.

His agent, Nigel Kerr, said this was particularly upsetting as, due to Johnson's illness, this was the last chance his fans would ever get to see him play live.

"I hope people don't buy these overpriced tickets as it just fuels people's greed," he concluded. "But until the government makes it illegal to resell tickets this is going to go on and on."

For those who do not want to participate in this legalised touting there is, however, an alternative.

Twickets is a fan-to-fan ticket aggregator in its true sense, designed to help ensure empty seats are filled, as on average 10% of tickets currently go unused.

Using Twitter it enables fans to make available all spare or unwanted UK event tickets – its only rule being that nothing is posted for more than face value. And with its recently launched iPhone app it's even easier to behave ethically.

Using Twickets is simple. If you want to offer a spare ticket at face value or less, simply tweet to @Twickets. If you want to see every spare ticket to any UK event follow @Twickets.

There are also specific Twicket Twitter accounts for sport, gigs and travel tickets as well as for shows, plays and musicals.

The iPhone app allows you to filter the available tickets to event category, location, date or event name.

As with many great ideas, Twickets came out of its founder's own unfulfilled desire. Richard Davies had grown frustrated by the lack of transparency in the ticketing business. When he noticed two spares to a gig he wanted to go to being offered on Twitter last minute for free by a fan who could no longer make the event, he did some research and found this act of kindness was not a one-off.

A quick scan of the Twickets Twitter feed confirms his research. And it's not all last-minute tickets on offer either – we found tickets for the V festival, a seated ticket for My Bloody Valentine at the Manchester Apollo, available on the day of the show, a pair of tickets for the Courteneers gig at Brixton Academy a week in advance (£40 for the pair), Biffy Clyro Cardiff standing tickets for £30 each, and two circle tickets for Starlight Express at Norwich Theatre Royal in April for only £6.50 a pop.

Perhaps the one spare ticket for One Direction in Manchester may have been more difficult to offload, as most fans would need a chaperone.

It's clear when reading the tweets that there are people who genuinely want fans to have the tickets. And, unlike other ticketing platforms, the users won't be hit with any pesky service charges, as the buyer and seller simply arrange to meet up beforehand.

A friend told me he missed out on tickets to Amon Tobin's recent London gig, but saw a tweet at 5pm offering a ticket for free, on the day of the show. They arranged to meet outside the venue, first via Twitter and then by mobile phone.

To ensure it won't be hijacked by touts, Twickets will delete tickets posted for above face value and sometimes block users, if necessary.

"Our community helps us police that as and when necessary," says Davies, who is not making money off the venture, as it's not for profit.

So far the iPhone app has been downloaded 40,000 times, and Twickets has 25,000 followers across the accounts on Twitter.

An Android app was launched earlier this week, and Davies predicts the platform will have an audience of more than 100,000 in the next few weeks. The only downside would be if it becomes a victim of its own success, with hundreds of people chasing a ticket as soon as it's tweeted.

The existence of Twickets won't prevent touts from plying their trade on secondary ticketing sites – but it makes the websites' claim that they provide a service for real fans who have bought tickets, but find themselves unable to go, ring even more hollow.

As anyone who has lost out on tickets only to find them on Viagogo, Seatwave and Get Me In at vastly inflated prices the day after they've gone on sale may question how many of the sellers are indeed such fans.

The platform has received support from Sharon Hodgson, an MP who is campaigning for a private members' bill against ticket touts.

Wilko Johnson's agent may not get his wish that the government bans the reselling of tickets, but Twickets could at least help punters who want to behave ethically prevent secondary ticketing sites from profiteering from the practice.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

stub hub is great

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Is this going to help ? Paulywaul, perhaps you can advise ?

Good post Johnny.

This is great news. Make it harder for touts to get tickets at source and leave more ticket buying opportunities for the real fans.

I am not sure what the real effects of this law will be. In France there are (very old) laws against this but they are not really enforced. For instance, one old from 1919 law states that for shows where public money is involved, resale of tickets above face value is forbidden. For instance, festivals.

For the latest Stade de France show (it was hard to get front of stage tickets), I did play one day with reporting people selling tickets over face value. The french site I targeted removed all ads I reported. It was of course not the case with foreign sites, even when operating from France.

Viagogo was prosecuted in France by the Festival "Vieilles Charrues" for reselling passes over face value. The festival management was really annoyed, saying that they worked hard each year to negociate with the artists and the county and other administrations in order to make an interesting program while keeping passes prices law. Of course this doesnt apply when the venue or producers benefit from all this resale system...

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alhavu1
stub hub is great

I got 9th row to the sold out SPARKS show for $13.85 the evening of. Face was $70. This was obviously broker over-reach.

Almost all arena shows there are leftover tickets that plummet to almost nothing close to show time.

I guess the secondary market is bad for people who don't know how to buy tickets or just have to be in the front row or need that sense of security of having a ticket in hand months in advance but great for those of us who want to go to dozens of shows a year but don't have a 5 figure entertainment budget.