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Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.

Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Keith has said he didn't play slide until Beggars Banquet which doesn't take away from the second quote.

No reason to doubt that Brian played it on studio version as he did live. There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio version, so possible misremembering, partially remembering or selectivley remembering from Keith Richards.

Brian is God

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

And Keith also stated that Mick had a tiny todger although Jagger shagged Richards' partner on a certain occasion...Jagger and Pallenberg seemed to enjoy it though, so I wouldn't trust Keith's statement as a proof of anything either. Psychologists fodder.

If you wanna go that route, there are a couple of quotes from Marianne about who was the "best Stone" as well

Only pulling your leg. I just wouldn't believe everything that gets quoted by Stones members, and that includes Keith . I remember a question on Keith's site, someone asked wheter a part was played by him (Keith) or Taylor -not WOAF - and Keith answered he couldn't remember, but it could be Mick Taylor, and Keith looked a bit sour. Keith's memories, opinions and answers are a bit selective or biased on occasions.

To get semi OT again: I think both Keith and Jones played slide on MLH, Keith in the studio (it's not distinct Brian) and Jones on stage most of the time.

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To get semi OT again: I think both Keith and Jones played slide on MLH, Keith in the studio (it's not distinct Brian) and Jones on stage most of the time.

One little comment by Keith taken too literally.

It sounds same live as in studio. Only missing the 2nd guitar also playing the motif. Brian played 12 string live with slide for the motif because he played it on studio version.

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To get semi OT again: I think both Keith and Jones played slide on MLH, Keith in the studio (it's not distinct Brian) and Jones on stage most of the time.

One little comment by Keith taken too literally.

It sounds same live as in studio. Only missing the 2nd guitar also playing the motif. Brian played 12 string live with slide for the motif because he played it on studio version.

You may be right, but I like Brian's slide on Little Red Rooster better. It's great.

1. According to you
2. Like I said
3. Strumming, like Keith did on the studio version, not picking.
4. Was the slide live version of What A Shame (1965), where Brian played Keith's tremolo/whammy-ish part, just miming?

Anyways, according to Keith they switched parts live on several occasions (TIOMS, MLS, Popeye The Sailor ). According to you they didn't...

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You may be right, but I like Brian's slide on Little Red Rooster better. It's great.

Of course, but MLH is not going for same sound or style. It is intentionally weird.

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1. According to you
2. Like I said
3. Strumming, like Keith did on the studio version, not picking.
4. Was the slide live version of What A Shame (1965), where Brian played Keith's tremolo/whammy-ish part, just miming?

Anyways, according to Keith they switched parts live on several occasions (TIOMS, MLS, Popeye The Sailor ). According to you they didn't...

Not several, he slipped up for two things.

2) Keith plays the intro live and studio alone. Just him and his guitar.

3) No, he's not strumming Keith's part. He's playing a variation of his own part.

4) Live What A Shame?

<Live What A Shame?>

[www.iorr.org]

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<Live What A Shame?>

[www.iorr.org]

Yet we don't get to hear it. Maybe it's just the studio version or different take with gives impression it's live.

<One little comment by Keith taken too literally.>

This is more than one little comment - it's detailed:

"I wanted to add some nice bite to it".

"But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well".

Do you have other reasons for believing that this isn't true - other than that they HAD TO play by the same roles as when recording it in the studio?

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DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.

Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Keith has said he didn't play slide until Beggars Banquet which doesn't take away from the second quote.

No reason to doubt that Brian played it on studio version as he did live. There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio version, so possible misremembering, partially remembering or selectivley remembering from Keith Richards.

Brian is God

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

And Keith also stated that Mick had a tiny todger although Jagger shagged Richards' partner on a certain occasion...Jagger and Pallenberg seemed to enjoy it though, so I wouldn't trust Keith's statement as a proof of anything either. Psychologists fodder.

If you wanna go that route, there are a couple of quotes from Marianne about who was the "best Stone" as well

Only pulling your leg. I just wouldn't believe everything that gets quoted by Stones members, and that includes Keith . I remember a question on Keith's site, someone asked wheter a part was played by him (Keith) or Taylor -not WOAF - and Keith answered he couldn't remember, but it could be Mick Taylor, and Keith looked a bit sour. Keith's memories, opinions and answers are a bit selective or biased on occasions.

To get semi OT again: I think both Keith and Jones played slide on MLH, Keith in the studio (it's not distinct Brian) and Jones on stage most of the time.

You may be right, although it is more poorly played live.

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DandelionPowderman
<One little comment by Keith taken too literally.>

This is more than one little comment - it's detailed:

"I wanted to add some nice bite to it".

"But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well".

Do you have other reasons for believing that this isn't true - other than that they HAD TO play by the same roles as when recording it in the studio?

He could be talking from a production sense. Move the I and We and it changes it a lot.

The 12 string slide playing on both versions is by the same player.

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You may be right, although it is more poorly played live.

Not really, it's more exposed as it doesn't have the supporting guitar doubling the part.

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DandelionPowderman
<One little comment by Keith taken too literally.>

This is more than one little comment - it's detailed:

"I wanted to add some nice bite to it".

"But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well".

Do you have other reasons for believing that this isn't true - other than that they HAD TO play by the same roles as when recording it in the studio?

He could be talking from a production sense. Move the I and We and it changes it a lot.

The 12 string slide playing on both versions is by the same player.

It's more likely that he doesn't, because he is being specific about what he did - and when he is speaking of more guitars (the acoustics) he says "we".

I think there is a possibility the 12 strings weren't played by the same player for those two version, unless you can convince me otherwise?

I only know one other (former) poster as cocksure as you, when it comes to Brian. But he used to give more detailed musical explanations...

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You may be right, although it is more poorly played live.

Not really, it's more exposed as it doesn't have the supporting guitar doubling the part.

It's more off the frets as well - more disharmony. Then again, the 12 string is a bit out of tune.

There are 2 guitars playing the motif on studio version, Brian playing the motif with slide on 12 string live suggests he played it in studio as well. Perhaps Keith played the other guitar doing the motif.

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Gemini
There are 2 guitars playing the motif on studio version, Brian playing the motif with slide on 12 string live suggests he played it in studio as well. Perhaps Keith played the other guitar doing the motif.

Suggests? Not really. Brian could just as likely have played the other guitar doing the motif. Things aren't always that black and white. It could be as simple as Keith didn't want to play the slide live because he had demanding back up-vocals to do.

I think people would remember if they laid down a bottleneck riff on a 12 stringer on a classic track or not...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-17 14:26 by DandelionPowderman.

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Suggests? Not really. Brian could just as likely have played the other guitar doing the motif. Things aren't always that black and white. It could be as simple as Keith didn't want to play the slide live because he had demanding back up-vocals to do.

I think people would remember if they laid down a bottleneck riff on a 12 stringer on a classic track or not...

Could be as simple as he didn't play slide, but recalled wrongly that he did. Or they both did.

The similarities between the 12 string slide playing on the studio and live recordings say more than one quote. It tells us Brian did play one of the 2 motif guitars.

It's just one motif on one track out of many from an intense recording period.

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Suggests? Not really. Brian could just as likely have played the other guitar doing the motif. Things aren't always that black and white. It could be as simple as Keith didn't want to play the slide live because he had demanding back up-vocals to do.

I think people would remember if they laid down a bottleneck riff on a 12 stringer on a classic track or not...

Could be as simple as he didn't play slide, but recalled wrongly that he did. Or they both did.

The similarities between the 12 string slide playing on the studio and live recordings say more than one quote. It tells us Brian did play one of the 2 motif guitars.

It's just one motif on one track out of many from an intense recording period.

Would you have prefered to play a 12 string slide guitar live back then, if you had to do demanding backup vocals?

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Would you have prefered to play a 12 string slide guitar live back then, if you had to do demanding backup vocals?

No need to worry about that when the guy that played the 12 string with slide in the studio is on the other side of the stage.

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Would you have prefered to play a 12 string slide guitar live back then, if you had to do demanding backup vocals?

No need to worry about that when the guy that played the 12 string with slide in the studio is on the other side of the stage.

He he, it's good that you have the ears to distinguish HM Jones's playing from Keith's that well from crap-recorded mono boots. The playing from Honolulu doesn't sound very different from what Keith did a year later to me.

Welcome (back) to the board, btw. It has to be you

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I think people would remember if they laid down a bottleneck riff on a 12 stringer on a classic track or not...

I'm sorry Dande dear, but honestly back on page 2 when I pointed out that it was 12-string slide rather than a sitar,
I left out a lot of the quote because it sounds to me like Keith doesn't really remember for sure who played it.

"(The strange guitar sound is) a 12-string with a slide on it. It's played slightly Oriental-ish.
The track just needed something to make it twang. Otherwise, the song was quite vaudeville in a way.
I wanted to add some nice bite to it. And it was just one of those things where someone walked in and,
Look, it's an electric 12-string. It was some gashed-up job. No name on it. God knows where it came from. Or where it went.
But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well."
- Keith Richards, 2002

"Someone walked in"?? Keith wanting something with some bite doesn't mean he played it.
And "I put it together with a bottleneck" could mean he suggested the bottleneck to Brian.
"Then we had a riff" doesn't mean "I played it"; it's only really the last two sentences that start to sound like "it was me" -
but it's not really very clear, and could simply mean "besides that guitar there's acoustic as well".

But to be absolutely honest I really really wish this whole discussion
were taking place on the Mother's Little Helper thread. Shall we ask BV to move it there?

?

Keith didn't play slide a year later.

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?

Keith didn't play slide a year later.

Pedantic today? OK, A bit more, then.

The Honolulu show: July 28 1966

Jig Saw Puzzle: recorded March 1968

+ the 12 string slide playing on MR later, of course.

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DandelionPowderman
I think people would remember if they laid down a bottleneck riff on a 12 stringer on a classic track or not...

I'm sorry Dande dear, but honestly back on page 2 when I pointed out that it was 12-string slide rather than a sitar,
I left out a lot of the quote because it sounds to me like Keith doesn't really remember for sure who played it.

"(The strange guitar sound is) a 12-string with a slide on it. It's played slightly Oriental-ish.
The track just needed something to make it twang. Otherwise, the song was quite vaudeville in a way.
I wanted to add some nice bite to it. And it was just one of those things where someone walked in and,
Look, it's an electric 12-string. It was some gashed-up job. No name on it. God knows where it came from. Or where it went.
But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well."
- Keith Richards, 2002

"Someone walked in"?? Keith wanting something with some bite doesn't mean he played it.
And "I put it together with a bottleneck" could mean he suggested the bottleneck to Brian.
"Then we had a riff" doesn't mean "I played it"; it's only really the last two sentences that start to sound like "it was me" -
but it's not really very clear, and could simply mean "besides that guitar there's acoustic as well".

But to be absolutely honest I really really wish this whole discussion
were taking place on the Mother's Little Helper thread. Shall we ask BV to move it there?

The point about the MLH-discussion: Totally agree.

"I put it together with a bottleneck" means "I played it", not that Brian played it. Or else he would have said something like "I recorded the track together with a bottleneck track".

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DandelionPowderman

Pedantic today? OK, A bit more, then.

The Honolulu show: July 28 1966

Jig Saw Puzzle: recorded March 1968

+ the 12 string slide playing on MR later, of course.

MLH slide live and studio sound much the same and for good reason.

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DandelionPowderman
The point about the MLH-discussion: Totally agree.

"I put it together with a bottleneck" means "I played it", not that Brian played it. Or else he would have said something like "I recorded the track together with a bottleneck track".

I'm not sure, Dande. I didn't mean anything like recording it along with a bottleneck track -
I meant more like "Hey Brian! Try this 12-string with a bottleneck!" But in any case
my point is that the whole quote sounds very much like Keith doesn't really remember who played it.

Stones sites are interpreting his statements otherwise. Well, we don't know - neither does "Gemini". But I find it odd that Keith should not remember this/refuse to give Brian credit, as this is a different track musically from what they had done up till then.

Probable lineup from timeisonourside.com:

Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Bill Wyman
Acoustic guitars: Keith Richards & Brian Jones
12-string slide electric guitar: Keith Richards
Vocals: Mick Jagger
Nitzsche-phone: Jack Nitzsche

It's not odd that in 2002 he would forget something from December 1965.

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DandelionPowderman
Stones sites are interpreting his statements otherwise. Well, we don't know - neither does "Gemini".
But I find it odd that Keith should not remember this/refuse to give Brian credit, as this is a different track musically from what they had done up till then.

I didn't mean I think he's refusing to give credit.
Just that it sounds to me like the way one talks
when one doesn't really remember for sure.

More credence would be given to his claim if he had repeated it through the years.

He's only said it once right?

The similarities between 12 string slide on live and studio say more than one quote which doesn't sound so sure of itself.