Hi everyone

As I've mentioned previously I am working with John Perry to help him revise his seminal book on the making of Exile on Man Street. We are currently struggling with what to write about the second CD of "out-takes" that accompanied the Universal remaster in 2010.

We both have reservations about this CD, as do many people who post on this board. However rather than just slagging off what Universal did we thought we would compile our own CD2 and print our track selection in the book. Our first stab at it follows below. The criteria for inclusion are not set in stone - you may think there are other reasons for tracks being included, and that's cool. If you can give sources for the tracks you recommend, that would be very helpful.

I know there are people who read this board who know far more than me about the murky world of unreleased Stones recordings. I am hoping we can use the awesome collective knowledge of iorr.org to "crowd source" a sense of what should go on the Definitive Exiles Out-Takes CD. Credit will be given where appropriate>

Over to you guys!

Many thanks in advance

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Exile on Main Street: CD2 As It Should Be

This selection of tracks is proposed as a companion CD to the well-established studio double LP. It is designed to replace the CD2 that Universal issued to accompany the CD re-release in 2010.

Criteria for inclusion
• Out-take from Exile sessions in the widest sense ( 1968 - 1972)
• Song that existed prior to Exile and could / should have been included
• Demo of a song that appears on Exile
• Live version of a song from Exile that was rarely played live

1. All Down The Line - Accoustic Demo(Olympic June/Jul 69)
2. I’m Going Down longer version (Olympic 69-70),
3. I Don’t Know Why (Olympic July 69)
4. Leather Jacket (Olympic June-July 70)
5. Still A Fool (June 68, Redlands)
6. I Ain’t Lying (Nellcote June-Nov 71)
7. Travellin Man (Olympic Oct 70)
8. Alladin Story instrumental (Olympic June – Oct 70)
9. Good Time Woman (Stargroves/Olympic May-Oct 70)
10. Loving Cup - ‘Drunk” version (Olympic June-July 69 ?)
11. Let It Loose - instrumental (July 70 – March 72. Nellcote/Olympic/Sunset Sound/ RCA)
12. Highway Child (June 68, Redlands)
Source: Hillside Blues (Scorpion 2CD collection of Exile-era studio sessions)

Instrumental 1972
13. Source: Exile Session Hopkin Tape (recording details?)

14. Torn and Frayed
15. Ventilator Blues
16. Loving Cup
Source: “Vancouver STP Ist Night” , first night of the 1972 STP Nortb American Tour. Audience tape (unless someone has a soundboard???)

17. Let It Loose (Part 7)
Source: Dallas Rehearsals, Sumet Burnet Studio 23.06.72 Soundboard (Whips Crack and Tiger Snarl CD)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-24 17:02 by johnnythunders.

Cannot help but am in awe of the outcome wish I was in Adelaide for tomorrow night and may be could get some answers for you. Will keep reading, searching and asking and if something turns up let you know. Keep rockin' let's hope they hit as good a form down under as they have demonstrated elsewhere. No Bobby Keyes though ouch has Jagger fired him again?

Dunny.


KARL DENSON TO JOIN THE 14 ON FIRE AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND TOUR

Dunny

Oh man, there are so many combinations with all the material available, I doubt there can ever be a consensus.

I love Highway Child, the raw energy of it, the fact that it shows Mick had Iggy Pop's act down before the Stooges even put out an album, but in it's undeveloped form it would probably be a roadblock to repeated listens of the disc as a sequence from start to finish.

If you are trying to keep it to an 80 minute CD, I'd skip the live stuff in favour of Hillside Blues (!!!!), Get A Line On You, and, erm...Jiving Sister Fanny (double !!!). Maybe throw Potted Shrimp in there, and perhaps that instrumental that surfaced on the Nicky Hopkins tapes. Also, the Stones version of Memo From Turner is pretty badass as well, if you don't mind poaching tracks from Metamorphosis.

Thanks Simon - any thoughts on what should go on a revised Exiles Outtakes CD?

On a slightly different note I have compiled a CD of the best alternate Exile takes. When not available I have used the earliest known live version such as Ventilator Blues off Vancouver First Night. I think there are about 4 or so songs for which there is no known alt take or live version.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-24 17:46 by Silver Dagger.

Thanks Andrewt - some good suggestions here. I am not expecting consensus, but want to understand which tracks IORR-ians really love.

I wondered about Hillside Blues but it does go on for about 11 minutes - maybe we do an edit?

The instrumental from the Nicky Hopkins tape you refer to I have listed as Instrumental 1972 - sure sounds like the Stones so I hope it is! Can anyone confirm?

Hi Silver Dagger

Anything on your alt Exiles we haven't got and should be considering ?

Thanks

Some years ago (before the release of Universal 2-CD Exile and before the Hopkins tapes showed up on the internet) I made this compilation for a Exile "bonus disc". I only used recordings between 1970 and 1972. Here's the track list :

Aladdin Story - Instrumental
Shake Your Hips - Alternate Take
Stop Breaking Down - Alternate Take
Shine A Light - Alternate Take
Sweet Black Angel - Instrumental
I Ain't Signifying
Good Time Woman (Tumbling Dice Early Version)
Sweet Virginia - Alternate Take
Loving Cup - Alternate Mix
Let It Loose - Instrumental
All Down The Line - Alternate Mix
I Don't Care (MJ on piano)


I also made a Sticky Fingers bonus disc which includes the following tracks recorded in 1969 and 1970 :

Brown Sugar - Alternate Take
Bitch - Alternate Mix
Wild Horses - Alternate Take
Dancing In The Light - Instrumental
Travelling Man
Leather Jacket - Instrumental
Who Am I (jam)
Potted Shrimp - Instrumental
Brown Sugar - Early Version
You Gotta Move - Alternate Mix
Dead Flowers - Alternate Take
Silver Train - Early Version
Schoolboy Blues (aka @#$%& Blues)
Trident Jam - Instrumental

Quote
johnnythunders
16. Loving Cup
Source: “Vancouver STP Ist Night” , first night of the 1972 STP Nortb American Tour. Audience tape (unless someone has a soundboard???)

The Hyde Park version of Loving Cup sounds better than this, IMHO.

Good point Cristiano, thank you

Thanks Kowalski

Quote
johnnythunders
Hi Silver Dagger

Anything on your alt Exiles we haven't got and should be considering ?

Thanks

Yes - excellent alt takes from two great boots called Get A Line On You and I Gave You Diamonds, You Gave Me Diseases.

These include two versions of Shine A Light; Shake Your Hips, Sweet Virginia, another version of Loving Cup, Let It Loose,Stop Breakin' Down, Sweet Black Angel, and I Don't Care.

You can check the Teague Raw Remasters too, especially the Sticky Fingers Outtakes, the 1970 Outtakes and Rarities and the 1971-1974 Outtakes and Rarities. On this thread you can find them.

Here's a playlist I made of the Hopkins tapes:

[www.youtube.com]

Rocks Off (instrumental)
All Down the Line Line (early version)
Soul Survivor (instrumental)
Shine a Light (early version)
Rip This Joint (instrumental)
I Ain't Signifying (early version)
Untitled Instrumental
All Down Line (later instrumental w/slide)

There were duplicated versions of some of these available and a song with Ry Cooder from the late 60's I didn't put on here.

Quote
johnnythunders
Thanks Andrewt - some good suggestions here. I am not expecting consensus, but want to understand which tracks IORR-ians really love.

I wondered about Hillside Blues but it does go on for about 11 minutes - maybe we do an edit?

The instrumental from the Nicky Hopkins tape you refer to I have listed as Instrumental 1972 - sure sounds like the Stones so I hope it is! Can anyone confirm?

I've wondered about doing that with Hillside Blues myself. Some would consider editing it down heresy, but if it managed to distill the essence of the track while trimming some of the meandering it could end up more powerful as a result.

This is a technique the Stones employed quite well in the late 70's.

I think some of the alt/early mixes are interesting as well but that seems like it would part of a different type of project..something more like the Led Zeppelin companion discs, where it's more about the process and the slight revisions than actual alternate takes.

At any rate, just about every Stones fan has toyed with this notion of the perfect Exile companion and some have gone all out trying to anthologize it as well (Teagueraw and others). It's always interesting to see what people come up with. I look forward to the final result.

Is 68 to 72 too wide in terms of Exile ?
Wont leave much for the extra super duper deluxe Beggars box set !
I'd like to nominate Blood Red Wine please.
and the Rice Krispies ad as a hidden bonus.

Sounds like a great project. I am sorry not to have any suggestions, and others may be better
qualified to comment on this, but the range of years seems quite broad, except for those songs
that did end up on Exile, or as actual outtakes for Exile. Something like "I Don't Know Why,"
from 1969, imho, really has no bearing on Exile, and is diluting an idea I otherwise understand.

-swiss

Swiss, i understand your desire to focus on a tighter time span. One theme I was pursuing was pointing out how few Exile tracks were recorded solely in Nellcote. For onstance I am suggesting Highway Child because it was a contender for Exile in that a version exists from 68 but no-one seems to have wanted to disinter it. Sort of "Roads Not Travelled". If we start in 69 we lose Highway Child and Two Trains.

Thanks for suggesting the Teague Raw Remasters (Cristiano) and those two useful sounding boots (Silver Dagger)

I think the whole EXILE only approach of this project is too limited.
It was an area of 4 to 5 years of incredible inspiration which was the framework for a lot more than Exile only.
All considered Exile outtakes were worked out until may 1972 and made up the original Exile On Mainstreet album. Only 18 songs on it. That's it:
THE ROLLING STONES - EXILE ON MAINSTREET (The Perfect Exiles Outtakes album).

The rest of material "in the works"was not selected for official release at the time and you can't name these Exile outtakes. Some songs they worked on since 1968 were selected before (released on Let It Bleed album, Sticky Fingers) and some was used for Goat's Head Soup (Silver Train, 100 Years Ago).

Some songs on Exile On Mainstreet were started in 68-69 and even ideas from 68/69 came to grow until 73. Great example of this is the "I'll wrap my coat around you" line in BLOOD RED WINE (68-69 outtake) used in WINTER 1973.

Interesting: Tops (a Tattoo You outtake/release 1981) was started in 1972 just like Dancing In The Light (a Exile 2010 bonus track) and So Devine (Aladdin Story or Alladin in Sane in 1969-70).

All in all:
1968-1972 was a landmark period. Things changed when Ronnie joined. They got another input but took their great history with them. In 2010 Mick had worked out a bonus-CD for Exile. (And I LIKE IT).

Quote
RipThisBone
Some songs on Exile On Mainstreet were started in 68-69 and even ideas from 68/69 came to grow until 73. Great example of this is the "I'll wrap my coat around you" line in BLOOD RED WINE (68-69 outtake) used in WINTER 1973.

I never made that connection before. Neat. Always learning..

Quote
johnnythunders
Swiss, i understand your desire to focus on a tighter time span. One theme I was pursuing was pointing out how few Exile tracks were recorded solely in Nellcote. For onstance I am suggesting Highway Child because it was a contender for Exile in that a version exists from 68 but no-one seems to have wanted to disinter it. Sort of "Roads Not Travelled". If we start in 69 we lose Highway Child and Two Trains.

johnnythunders...sorry not to be clearer. What I was saying has less to do with drawing a tighter timeframe, and more about focusing on songs that do have a tangible link to the finished product that is Exile--the subject of the book you're working on. ("the range of years seems quite broad, except for those songs that did end up on Exile, or as actual outtakes for Exile. Something like "I Don't Know," from 1969, imho, really has no bearing on Exile" )

I would add to that songs that appear to have had their origins, or debuts, in the official Exile recording sessions -- whether or not they appeared on Exile.

As some other people are saying, and as you know, 1968-72 was such an incredible fertile time for the Stones, and it's fascinating to look at how many songs written, recorded, performed during that time [as well as portions of, and flavors and riffs from] intertwine with each other and with albums released during that time period, as well as subsequent to that time period. I'd just suggest keeping the relationship to Exile itself quite tight. My example of "I Don't Know" is super obvious, but you'd mentioned it in your original post...maybe there is a tie-in to Exile, but I'm not aware of one.

- swiss

Forgot to mention this cool version of Loving Cup with the extended outro and steel drums. this is from Mickboy's remaster but I'm not sure if there are other sources for this as well.

Hey JT,
Good luck with this project. Exile is my all time favorite Stones album. I'm not that knowledgeable about all of the outtakes, but if you haven't checked out The Rolling Stones Complete Recording Sessions 1962-2012 by Martin Elliot, it might be helpful in succeeding in your quest.

Happy Hunting!

Oh, oh! I know a rarely performed track from that era-'Tumbling Dice'!

We may need to re-assess our criteria and focus on songs that made the finished LP in alternate versions plus very near misses. Thanks for all contributions - it is a very helpful debate.

Footnote: Fast Talking Slow Walking was apparently started at Nellcote. Should we include this or leave it for when GHS gets re-released?

Didn't Courtney Love say that Don Was played her numerous mixes of Tumbling Dice when she was working with him a few years back ?
I could quite happily listen to a whole disc of Tumbling Dice mixes personally.

But where are all the Tumbling Dice out-takes? Robert Greenfield refers to the band having several goes at this track, where are they? We have Good Time Women but what else?

Thanks

There is a bit of Tumbling Dicing in Plundered My Soul in a slower pace, a bit of the riff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-26 21:51 by RipThisBone.