Sam Cutler (tour manager) worked both on the regular dates and on the free festival. That is a link.

What about the rest of the personal : Ronnie Schneider (financial producer) and Chip Monck (amplification system, and lighting)

Was about the other components: logistics (trucks), personal Stones security, techical crew, sound system, mixing engineer, sponsors (there was major car brand involved in sponsorship)

The Grateful Dead influence on launching the whole idea has been well documented. Below the famous people, just trying to find which patterns of the commercial tour were used in the free festival, so to establish or not a sort of continuity.

Check with Swiss. She has done a lot of research on this.

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The Joker
Sam Cutler (tour manager) worked both on the regular dates and on the free festival. That is a link.

What about the rest of the personal : Ronnie Schneider (financial producer) and Chip Monck (amplification system, and lighting)

Was about the other components: logistics (trucks), personal Stones security, techical crew, sound system, mixing engineer, sponsors (there was major car brand involved in sponsorship)

The Grateful Dead influence on launching the whole idea has been well documented. Below the famous people, just trying to find which patterns of the commercial tour were used in the free festival, so to establish or not a sort of continuity.

thanks, Tele.

hi, The Joker. Fortunately, and I'm guessing you might already know this since you've been on iorr
for 10 years, there are tons and tons of great threads on iorr about Altamont, and the 1969
tour. Just do a search for "All Dates" and the word Altamont. Or maybe I'm not quite understanding
your question In general, the people who toured with the Stones in 1969 were at Altamont. The
planning was in conjunction and consultation with the Rolling Stones, but the on-the-ground
implementation of logistics were, for the most part--up until a handful of days out--handled by
people in the Bay Area.

But in addition to the people you mentioned, Tony Funches, bodyguard, was bodyguard
at Altamont as well as on the '69 tour (and beforehand in LA). Ethan Russell, photographer,
and writers Stanley Booth and Michael Lydon were on the tour and at Altamont. As well as
others.

Again, not quite sure I'm getting your question.

- swiss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-19 11:36 by swiss.

I'm not sure I get the question either, but technically/formally neither Altamont nor Miami Beach were part of the '69 tour.
The '69 tour was an arena tour; the two festival gigs were separate deals that came after the tour per se.

Thanks Swiss.
Yes, the meaning of the question (Yes or No, was Altamont part of tour?) seems obscure.
It is because there is a first underlying question: to understand why the arenas’ tour was a huge success despite little flaws, while the 1969 final show ended into mayhem.
So from that first question, I wondered “BTW, what do you call a tour?” which leads me to post the thread.
Clearly, geographical and timing proximity are not enough to link the arena shows and Altamont.
So, to include Altamont in the tour as a date per se, I looked for other patterns: tour managing, financial, managing, logistics, truck, sound system, etc.
If I get an answer (Yes or No, was Altamont part of tour?) I can back to my first underlying question with some answer
1) Yes, Altamont may be considered as a part of the tour, so why the successful Stones organization when south?
2) No, Altamont may not be considered as a part of the tour, so I take the Stones organization out of the equation as for the Altamont’s mayhem.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-19 12:59 by The Joker.

Jokerman, you've read Stanley Booth's True Story of the Rolling Stones and seen the film Gimme Shelter, right?
Even without the deeper insights that the learned swiss can add, a lot of the causes of the chaos at Altamont
are presented in the familiar book and film. Both highly recommended!

Well, I guess you all IORR-eans con laude



I guess I'm not

BTW, my question is not on the cause of the chaos at Altamont

My question is: when doing a list of PRO and CONS, can we consider the Stones' tour organisation was acting there, or not?

The contracts you are talking above are one piece of the answer, but not all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-19 14:21 by The Joker.

You could also wonder if the Knebworth gig in 1976 was part of the 76 tour ?

Yes, but Knebworth was a happy gig.

I may have misread this; what I was thinking was that Altamont may have been tagged on to the 1969 tour, just as the Knebworth gig was an addendum to the 1976 tour.

So sorry if my reply somehow offended you, Jokerman.

This is the part that sounded like you're trying to ascertain what caused the chaos at Altamont:

Quote
The Joker
If I get an answer (Yes or No, was Altamont part of tour?) I can back to my first underlying question with some answer
1) Yes, Altamont may be considered as a part of the tour, so why the successful Stones organization when south?
2) No, Altamont may not be considered as a part of the tour, so I take the Stones organization out of the equation as for the Altamont’s mayhem.

But since that's not what you're inquiring into, that's all right too - you'll get there without my interruptions.

Aren't you a journalist, or am I misremembering?

Quote
The Joker
Well, I guess you all IORR-eans con laude

I guess I'm not

You may in fact be con laude...don't sell yourself short. You can turn that frown upside down!

I'll grant you a lot of IORRians (myself not included) might graduate cum laude.

West Palm Beach, Florida, International Raceway, 'First Annual International Music & Arts Festival' should have been the second festival but no, in typical American ignorance, it wasn't the 'Inaugural Annual International Music & Arts Festival'.

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treaclefingers

Quote
The Joker
Well, I guess you all IORR-eans con laude

I guess I'm not

You may in fact be con laude...don't sell yourself short. You can turn that frown upside down!

I'll grant you a lot of IORRians (myself not included) might graduate cum laude.

Thanks you for your kind words

But...see..

You are the real deal.... cum laude.

I'm a fraud...con laude

I told you..

Just a con man.

Altamont was NOT part of the tour schedule.

From the first week the Stones arrived in Los Angeles in October 1969 to rehearse for the actual tour, they were besieged by various parties pushing
for a free concert in the Bay Area, some of whom had their own personal agendas "to get next to the Stones."

The last stop on the tour was Boshhhhtonnnnnn.

Quote
The Joker

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
The Joker
Well, I guess you all IORR-eans con laude

I guess I'm not

You may in fact be con laude...don't sell yourself short. You can turn that frown upside down!

I'll grant you a lot of IORRians (myself not included) might graduate cum laude.

Thanks you for your kind words

But...see..

You are the real deal.... cum laude.

I'm a fraud...con laude

I told you..

Just a con man.

you jest joker!

The answer would seem to be yes and no.

Obviously it wasn't considered when the tour was being planned, since there was such a mad last-minute scramble to iron out the venue and logistics.

Yet it was included as part of the 1969 tour documentary they were already filming. So, yes in the sense that it was one of those dates they just added on while on the road, as they have been known to do in later years, an extra gig before coming off the road.

It was added to and became part of the tour in the same way as recent festival performances are part of their current tour. Just because there are other bands on the bill and other personnel on duty doesn't mean that it isn't part of the tour, even if Altamont wasn't brought up or put together until the last minute.

A free concert is generally not considered to be a "tour date."

just out of curiosity, what will we have solved once we get to the bottom of this?

I am sure something has already been solved..

did we solve anything?

who's solving, and what for? come on people..

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treaclefingers
just out of curiosity, what will we have solved once we get to the bottom of this?

The Joker's 69 tour schedule will now be updated?

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers
just out of curiosity, what will we have solved once we get to the bottom of this?

The Joker's 69 tour schedule will now be updated?

I guess I don't even care about the outcome...I just like being a valued part of the team that has been selected to come up with the answers.

Quote
treaclefingers
just out of curiosity, what will we have solved once we get to the bottom of this?

Thou shalt quest (Apocrypha)

This is a theorical trial on 1969 Stones organization

To this court I say Not Guilty!!

1: West Palm Beach was added to the tour at the beginning but was in constant flux while we awaited payment of the guarantee.

2tonesrule is accurate-A free concert is generally not considered to be a "tour date." Altamont was never part of the Stones tour.

My book is going thru the final edit and I will definitely have a lot of surprises and facts for all of you to judge.. I have the paperwork to prove my facts!

PS--do you know who signed for the event at Altamont?

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The Joker

Quote
treaclefingers
just out of curiosity, what will we have solved once we get to the bottom of this?

Thou shalt quest (Apocrypha)

This is a theorical trial on 1969 Stones organization

Quote
bmuseed

My book is going thru the final edit and I will definitely have a lot of surprises and facts for all of you to judge.. I have the paperwork to prove my facts!

Are you really coming out with a book about Altamont? If so, cool and can't wait to read it.



Isn't another iorrian writing a book about Altamont too?

Quote
MingSubu

Quote
bmuseed

My book is going thru the final edit and I will definitely have a lot of surprises and facts for all of you to judge.. I have the paperwork to prove my facts!

Are you really coming out with a book about Altamont? If so, cool and can't wait to read it.



Isn't another iorrian writing a book about Altamont too?

Great to hear, Ronnie. When you say "signed for the event," what do you mean? I'm
going out on a limb and guessing Michael Lang? tho it could have been you?

I'm producing a radio documentary and film about Altamont. The radio documentary was
slated for broadcast this Dec 5, but will be delayed. My beloved is critically ill, and I've
spent most of my "free" time outside of my day job with him the past 5-6 months.
He keeps telling me "Finish the piece!" and I will--but doing so requires a few more
interviews, out of town, and I need to leave San Francisco for a few weekends and do
it, and then finish the final edit.

best
swiss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-23 00:55 by swiss.

Blessings & well-being on him, swiss.

Sorry to hear that, swiss. Good thoughts coming your way, for both of you.