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Taylor1
Mathijs is very knowledgeable about guitars and music, but it sounds like he tries to lessen Taylor’s contributions.There is no proof he doesn’t play on Brown Sugar or Rip this Joint. He was very capable of playing like Keith.But even if he Mathijs is right that Taylor doesnt play on Brown Sugar orRip this Joint, his comments that Taylor was terrible on the 50 and Counting Tour is just his subjective opinion. My opinion is given the limited opportunity for him to warm up by playing on one or two songs, his playing in my subjective opinion was good.I find performances on Glastonbury and Hyde Park songs Can’t You Hear Me Knocking and Midnight Rambler are good andare better than Woods playing.I’d like to hear his critique of Woods playing on those tracks.This is not a knock on Wood, I love his playing in1975 ,1977,1978,1989, 1990 .On those hewas great.

I do love how passionate everyone is on here and how much detail everyone goes into. I may disagree but I enjoy all the points of view. I just feel a lot of opinion is presented as fact and when you ask for proof there is none.

Re Taylor's performances on these tours, I do feel his skills are not what they were BUT he is a 65/70 year old dude so I cut him a lot of slack. I would also say that Taylor's magic live was his improvisations, when you improv you take risks that don't always pay off. Ronnie plays Ronnie and is always solid. It is a different style and works as well but I feel there is less chance of failure with Ronnie. When I saw them in Hyde park recently he did take a chance on CYHMK and hit a handful of clams

Either way I love them both, although creatively I prefer Ronnie in The Faces, who IMO sometimes outplayed the Stones at their own game.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-21 17:41 by FP.

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TheflyingDutchman
I only get insecure about guitarist's skills when Jeff Beck tells me I'm wrong. No joking, always judge for yourself.

Good point!

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TravelinMan
Taylor’s parts can be heard on Rocks Off, but I think his boogie pattern on Rip This Joint is pretty low in the mix. The slide on the bootleg is different from anything I’ve heard him do before so I’m not sure about that.

It’s 100% Taylor on Shake Your Hips:

Yes that's what I'm saying,there is no evidence of a Taylor rhythm guitar on Rock's Off. Mathijs was suggesting that rhythm parts were wiped from RO and RTJ but I don't hear evidence on any source that MT ever played a rhythm part on either. On RTJ there are two rhythm guitars panned left and right on the Hopkins tape version, Taylor may play one of these in which case his rhythm part is on the record or it was Keith in which case most likely Taylor never played a rhythm part on this song and just the slide parts. If we have not heard these mysterious rhythm tracks I can't see how Mathijs can say there were parts that were then wiped?

Also I don't really know why Keith went on a frenzy of removing Taylor's parts from Exile when Keith seemed perfectly happy with Taylor's playing on Sticky Fingers and GHS (lack of MT on IORR were due to him missing the first part of the sessions). I am starting to feel MT is as present on Exile as he is on any other Stones album.

You can also go the other way and suggest that if Keith hated Taylor's rhythm playing so much from day one then perhaps tracks that everyone seems to agree MT played rhythm on were Keith.

Evidence suggests that most of the basic Nellcote tracks were useable and the LA sessions were for overdubs with perhaps one or two tracks recorded from scratch there, although again this is disputed. None of the sessionographies I checked agree 100% on what tracks recorded at Nellcote and which in LA.

For me Star Star seems to be exactly the type of groove driven tune Keith would find Taylor's playing unsuited to, IF he had this feeling MT wasn't up to much as a rhythm player. It is a hard charging rocker like RO and RTJ. It seems odd if Taylor clashed so much with Keith's ideas that suddenly Keith loves his playing on Star Star after wiping away on Exile.

However if Taylor does play on Star Star then it belies his lack of ability as a rhythm player and also suggests Keith was perfectly happy with his rhythm playing, although I agree there may have been the odd track he felt he had betters ideas for and played every guitar part himself, for example Brown Sugar (allegedly).



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-21 18:01 by FP.

Ialways thought Taylor's guitar on the album version of Live With Me was Keith and Keith's part was Taylor's. Is Taylor paying rhythm on the album version of Live With Me

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Taylor1
Ialways thought Taylor's guitar on the album version of Live With Me was Keith and Keith's part was Taylor's. Is Taylor paying rhythm on the album version of Live With Me

Yes, and on YaYa's you can hear him do something similar.

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Taylor1
Ialways thought Taylor's guitar on the album version of Live With Me was Keith and Keith's part was Taylor's. Is Taylor paying rhythm on the album version of Live With Me

Taylor's plays the slashing chords, Richards the bends and double stops.

Mathijs

Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

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FP

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DandelionPowderman

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FP

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

But the right hand don't.

So you feel it is Taylor on the lead parts on right? That's what Travelin Man suggested as well.

No, Taylor plays the rhythm throughout. His right hand gives him away (playing style). Keith would never play a boogie this way all through a song.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 12:26 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

No, Taylor plays the rhythm throughout. His right hand gives him away (playing style). Keith would never play a boogie this way all through a song.

Totally agree. When Taylor plays a Berry style boogie rhythm his right hand often plays an 'and-one', an upstroke right before the '1'. On Star Star you hear this as a full muted upstroke over multiple strings. I like Taylor's part here, as it makes the track smoother, less of a straight Berry rip-off.

Wood does this too by the way on most 1978 versions, following Charlie's kick drum where the 1 is the kcik and the emphasis is on the snare, the 2.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 13:50 by Taylor1.

<possibly Happy>

No

Taylor is not on Turd On The Run, btw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 14:00 by DandelionPowderman.

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Taylor1

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.

I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.

Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor

Mathijs

Mick Taylor's game for the Stones has been to sprinkle magic and pearl into Richards' riffs. And that alone is huge!

.He is playing slide on soul Survivor!That is not Keith, that is ridiculous.Keith has never played slide like the one on Soul Survivor.He plays the slide on Rip this Joint.It sounds just like the weird slide he plays on the Hopkins tapes version,only abbreviated.. Again,that is not Keith.You have no proof he is not playing on Happy andTurd on the Run.He may also be playing the guitar on the outro to Torn and Frayed.You know a lot more about guitars than I ever will, but you are just stating stuff that is your opinion about what Taylor is playing on, and it sounds like you have a bias.

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.

I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.

Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor

Mathijs

Part of Exile is whoever was there got to play. So if Richards has a song and Wyman is not there, then Taylor hopped on bass so they could record the basic tracks. This is an integral part of the unit.

You’re mostly correct in your analysis, but I don’t think he was wiped from Rocks Off, he’s just lowered in the mix. There is no Taylor overdub on Rocks Off, it’s one track and it would be nice to hear how the song continued.

Taylor plays bass on Shine A Light and slide on Soul Survivor.

I believe he plays the other rhythm guitar on Rip This Joint and the slide from the bootleg is actually Richards. I’ve never heard Taylor play like that.

His rhythm guitar on Loving Cup might have been replaced, but the bridge sounds like him. We know he played on this at some point because of the studio banter on Stones In Exile.

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.

I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.

Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor

Mathijs

Part of Exile is whoever was there got to play. So if Richards has a song and Wyman is not there, then Taylor hopped on bass so they could record the basic tracks. This is an integral part of the unit.

You’re mostly correct in your analysis, but I don’t think he was wiped from Rocks Off, he’s just lowered in the mix. There is no Taylor overdub on Rocks Off, it’s one track and it would be nice to hear how the song continued.

Taylor plays bass on Shine A Light and slide on Soul Survivor.

I believe he plays the other rhythm guitar on Rip This Joint and the slide from the bootleg is actually Richards. I’ve never heard Taylor play like that.

His rhythm guitar on Loving Cup might have been replaced, but the bridge sounds like him. We know he played on this at some point because of the studio banter on Stones In Exile.

There used to be a bootleg on youtube that you can clearly hear Taylor's guitar played throughout Rocks Off. Ibeg to differ but the outro solo is brillant. I do not have the knowledge about guitars like Mathijs and others but to my laymen's ears Taylor's slide on You Gotta Move and Good Time Women do sound very similiar to the slides on Soul Survivorand Happy.

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Taylor1
There used to be a bootleg on youtube that you can clearly hear Taylor's guitar played throughout Rocks Off. Ibeg to differ but the outro solo is brillant. I do not have the knowledge about guitars like Mathijs and others but to my laymen's ears Taylor's slide on You Gotta Move and Good Time Women do sound very similiar to the slides on Soul Survivorand Happy.

Yeah I remember that video. You can clearly hear it is one take and he is starting a really cool solo at the end,

If you've ever listened to Mick Taylor play slide, then Should Survivor is obviously him. He used that same vibrato approach in his solo career for years.

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.

I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.

Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor

Mathijs

For the record this is what I have Taylor's contributions as:

Rocks Off
No rhythm part from Taylor I can hear. However he plays slide and fills through out song, possibly through a Leslie, very buried in the mix. Clearer on Hopkins tape version and there used to be a Rock's Off isolated tracks someone had taped at the Exhibitionism show but is infuriatingly from Youtube. Taylor's part combined blues, slows slides and slide in a really cool little part. I agree with Mathijs that it sounds like the remains of this on the final mix are bleed on Keith's main rhythm guitar. This then leads into the outro solo which I always though was the same track as the other parts but maybe an overdub as room feel sounds different to other parts.

Rip This Joint
IMO Taylor plays the slide licks on the bridge, just sounds more fluid than Keith. Also Bill Janovitz in his Exile book thinks this is Taylor.

Shake Your Hips
I honestly have no idea, the weaving suggests Keith on both parts but I am happy to go with the consensus.

Casino Boogie
Agreed Taylor just plays the end solo (which I love!)

Tumbling Dice
Agree Taylor on bass

Sweet Virginia
I think Taylor plays the lead acoustic parts, most books I have read have him on the lead?

Torn And Frayed
Agreed bass. Can't say as to other guitar parts but nothing ever jumped out as being Taylor.

Sweet Black Angel
I honestly can't remember this track off the top of my head so will go with consensus again!

Loving Cup
Used to think Taylor plays electric but now feeling it it Keith. However think MT plays the little fills on the bridge, just doesn't sound like Keith. Also no evidence MT was not about to contribute in LA. I do think Taylor may have come up with the part but was replaced for whatever reason by Richards.

Happy
I don't think Taylor is on this tune, it is well documented Keith knocked this together with Jimmy Miller as a demo and then liked the result. All the slide sounds like Keith as well.

Turd On The Run
I can't say for sure but I think it is probably Keith on both guitars just through the sound and vibe!

Ventilator Blues
From what I remember there are electric rhythm, electric slide and acoustic slide parts on this song. See no reason why Taylor isn't playing at least one part along with the end solo. Neither slide part screams Keith more than Taylor IMO.

I Just Want To See His Face
Agree with consensus on this, Taylor bass.

Let It Loose
Agree with consensus on this, no Taylor.

All Down The Line
Yes amazing Taylor slide solos. Played on a Rickenbacker amazingly! Interestingly has a thinner tone than normal for him probabaly due to the guitar.

Stop Breaking Down
Taylor slide solos. Some of his best, Andy Johns said he pushed Jagger to include it on Exile due to the slid playing. As close as Taylor ever got to sounding like his hero Earl Hooker on slide.

Shine A Light
Taylor lead guitar and I think this is him on bass as well. Bill may have been at recording session but may have then been overdubbed by Taylor.

Soul Survivor
Taylor on slide surely? Thicker tone and vibrato on slide, would be astounded if this was Keith.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 19:58 by FP.

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

No, Taylor plays the rhythm throughout. His right hand gives him away (playing style). Keith would never play a boogie this way all through a song.

Totally agree. When Taylor plays a Berry style boogie rhythm his right hand often plays an 'and-one', an upstroke right before the '1'. On Star Star you hear this as a full muted upstroke over multiple strings. I like Taylor's part here, as it makes the track smoother, less of a straight Berry rip-off.

Wood does this too by the way on most 1978 versions, following Charlie's kick drum where the 1 is the kcik and the emphasis is on the snare, the 2.

Mathijs

OK I really dig this level of attention to the styles

Taylor on rhythm it is!

All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Look I am a huge MT fan but I will come out and say it, agree YES the Stones would have been awesome without Taylor and would still have made great albums. After all Taylor could not save GHS and IORR from being a step down from SF and Exile. Also let It Bleed was brilliant and MT is only on two tunes.

Having said that you could probably say the same about any of the Stones if we are being harsh. Bill is equally missing in action on Exile, even more on GHS and several famous Stones bass lines are Taylor or Keith. Apart from a few tunes Brian was virtually a passenger on many of the Stones huge hits. Ruby Tuesday is still a great song without the recorders. Same with Under My Thumb without the marimba.

Charlie, well we may have to argue he was the third most important Stone?

Mick and Keith were the Stones HOWEVER all the members contributed to Stones being great rather than just very good. Of course it depends on the song but do I want to hear Tumbling Dice without Taylor's bass? No! Do I want to hear Ruby Tuesday without the recorder, No!


Keith also seems to feel Taylor brought something!
“I also think it was because we were writing songs on the spot,” Richards says. “So I automatically fell into doing the chording and figuring out the whole thing, which gave Mick Taylor a freedom. He just came up with line after beautiful line. What a player, man.”

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FP
Yes that's what I'm saying,there is no evidence of a Taylor rhythm guitar on Rock's Off. Mathijs was suggesting that rhythm parts were wiped from RO and RTJ but I don't hear evidence on any source that MT ever played a rhythm part on either.

The Exhibitionism show had multitracks of a few songs available at a listening station - IORR member mrpaulincanada recorded them:

[we.tl]

One of the tracks is Taylor's isolated rhythm part, which remains in the final mix, buried in the centre with Keith's two rhythm parts panned left (the original) and right (overdub).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 19:40 by automaticchanger.

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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.

There is an acoustic which just comps chords as well as the main electric slide, what sounds like a resonator slide, and then the lead that comes in about halfway.

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FP

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.

I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.

Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor

Mathijs

For the record this is what IU have Mick's contributions as:

Rocks Off
No rhythm part from Taylor I can hear. However he plays slide and fills through out song, possibly through a Leslie, very buried in the mix. Clearer on Hopkins tape version and there used to be a Rock's Off isolated tracks someone had taped at the Exhibitionism show but is infuriatingly from Youtube. Taylor's part combined blues, slows slides and slide in a really cool little part. I agree with Mathijs that it sounds like the remains of this on the final mix are bleed on Keith's main rhythm guitar. This then leads into the outro solo which I always though was the same track as the other parts but maybe an overdub as room feel sounds different to other parts.

Rip This Joint
IMO Taylor plays the slide licks on the bridge, just sounds more fluid than Keith. Also Bill Janovitz in his Exile book thinks this is Taylor.

Shake Your Hips
I honestly have no idea, the weaving suggests Keith on both parts but I am happy to go with the consensus.

Casino Boogie
Agreed Taylor just plays the end solo (which I love!)

Tumbling Dice
Agree Taylor on bass

Sweet Virginia
I think Taylor plays the lead acoustic parts, most books I have read have him on the lead?

Torn And Frayed
Agreed bass. Can't say as to other guitar parts but nothing ever jumped out as being Taylor.

Sweet Black Angel
I honestly can't remember this track off the top of my head so will go with consensus again!

Loving Cup
Used to think Taylor plays electric but now feeling it it Keith. However think MT plays the little fills on the bridge, just doesn't sound like Keith. Also no evidence MT was not about to contribute in LA. I do think Taylor may have come up with the part but was replaced for whatever reason by Richards.

Happy
I don't think Taylor is on this tune, it is well documented Keith knocked this together with Jimmy Miller as a demo and then liked the result. All the slide sounds like Keith as well.

Turd On The Run
I can't say for sure but I think it is probably Keith on both guitars just through the sound and vibe!

Ventilator Blues
From what I remember there are electric rhythm, electric slide and acoustic slide parts on this song. See no reason why Taylor isn't playing at least one part along with the end solo. Neither slide part screams Keith more than Taylor IMO.

I Just Want To See His Face
Agree with consensus on this, Taylor bass.

Let It Loose
Agree with consensus on this, no Taylor.

All Down The Line
Yes amazing Taylor slide solos. Played on a Rickenbacker amazingly! Interestingly has a thinner tone than normal for him probabaly due to the guitar.

Stop Breaking Down
Taylor slide solos. Some of his best, Andy Johns said he pushed Jagger to include it on Exile due to the slid playing. As close as Taylor ever got to sounding like his hero Earl Hooker on slide.

Shine A Light
Taylor lead guitar and I think this is him on bass as well. Bill may have been at recording session but may have then been overdubbed by Taylor.

Soul Survivor
Taylor on slide surely? Thicker tone and vibrato on slide, would be astounded if this was Keith.

On the 1972 Montreaux video for Hip Shake you can see Keith on lead and solo and Mick on the other guitar.It seems strange that Keith in the next 50 years from when Exile was recorded he never played slide again except for Till the Next Goodbye? His slide playing is only on Let it Bleed and Beggars. And it sounds nothing like any of the slides on Happy, Soul survivor,or Rip this Joint.Does he play any slide on Sticky Fingers? None of it sounds like the slides on Happy or the other Exile songs.Taylor’s slide on You Gotta Move and Good Timr Women sounds much more like the slides on Happy and the others than Keith on say Monkey Man or Jigsaw Puzzle

<.It seems strange that Keith in the next 50 years from when Exile was recorded he never played slide again except for Till the Next Goodbye? His slide playing is only on Let it Bleed and Beggars>

Very strange indeed, because it's not true.

Listen to his solo on Fight, for instance. And Hoodoo Blues.

He continued to play slide on Happy in concert throughout the 1978-tour.

And I'm sure you've heard him play slide on Little Red Rooster on LYL and El Mocambo.

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.

There is an acoustic which just comps chords as well as the main electric slide, what sounds like a resonator slide, and then the lead that comes in about halfway.

Isn't it also doubling the riff with slide at times?

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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.

The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.

The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.

Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.

Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.

I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.

Mathijs

I have to disagree on these comments a bit. The tunes you mention below do not feature Taylor on rhythm. As you say on RTJ he plays a slide solo which was removed, not a rhythm guitar part. I think the slide solo was just Taylor trying out ideas as it is a bit out of tune and I can see why it was removed.

Regarding Rock's Off, Taylor's part throughout the song is not a rhythm guitar part, it is more melodic fills in a soul style that can be heard on the studio take through out and also on Nicky Hopkins tapes. So as far as clashing with Keith's rhythm this is not the case as Taylor is not playing a rhythm guitar part. The part maybe superfluous hence it's lowering in the mix or as you say it maybe bleed on another track.

Re Brown Sugar I would need to hear all the bootlegs in more detail but I do feel this one I agree more with you. I do not understand what you mean by tremolo picked chords? When I hear tremolo picked I either think of the effect of varying volume with a pedal or a sort of flamenco style of alternate picking a note very fast. Please can you post the version with this so I know what you mean?

So what we have is an agreement that sometimes Keith didn't like Taylor's parts (whether rhythm guitar or fills or solos whatever) and replaced them. However he also replaced Bill bass lines, does this mean Bill clashed with Keith rhythm as well? IMO no, it just means sometimes Keith had a good idea what he wanted for a song and came up with a better part (Sympathy for the Devil for example). Charlie couldn't get the groove for YCAGWYW, again is this an issue with him clashing? Maybe for this song but of course not for the rest of his work on the albums! Of course sometimes both Taylor and Bill were not at the session (Happy for example) so Keith did guitar and bass himself. Not because they clashed but because they were not there.

None of this suggests Taylor fundamentally clashed with Keith's concept of rhythm. As I said before if Keith hated Taylor's rhythm playing so much why would he not replace all the other examples we have of Taylor playing rhythm on studio tracks?

I will agree that your theory is plausible that for Exile itself Keith had such a specific idea of what he wanted that Taylor rhythm parts may have been removed, however we have no evidence of this. We only have evidence of lead, fills or slide ideas being removed which is a different thing IMO.

I will disagree however, if this is what you mean, that Taylor and Keith did not gel when playing rhythm in general as we have plenty of examples (on other songs and albums) of Taylor playing good rhythm parts with Keith which obvious liked enough to keep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 20:12 by FP.

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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.

Good point! But I think MT is on one of them!

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automaticchanger

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FP
Yes that's what I'm saying,there is no evidence of a Taylor rhythm guitar on Rock's Off. Mathijs was suggesting that rhythm parts were wiped from RO and RTJ but I don't hear evidence on any source that MT ever played a rhythm part on either.

The Exhibitionism show had multitracks of a few songs available at a listening station - IORR member mrpaulincanada recorded them:

[we.tl]

One of the tracks is Taylor's isolated rhythm part, which remains in the final mix, buried in the centre with Keith's two rhythm parts panned left (the original) and right (overdub).

Thanks very much this, really appreciated! yes this Taylor part is the one I mean. But it is not a rhythm part, it is melodic fills, some of it almost sounds like Hawaiian guitar.

Sorry if this sounds amazingly anal but my point with Mathijs was simply that he seemed to imply that Taylor's rhythm guitar style clashed with Keith in general and specifically on Exile (I may be misunderstanding him though) leading Keith to wipe Taylor's rhythm parts.

My point was that what Taylor plays on RO is not a rhythm part, it is chordal embellishments, extensions and inversions of chords.

I say this as I have played guitar for many years and worked out plenty of Stones parts so perhaps I look at this more technically



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-22 20:12 by FP.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.

There is an acoustic which just comps chords as well as the main electric slide, what sounds like a resonator slide, and then the lead that comes in about halfway.

Isn't it also doubling the riff with slide at times?

I think Travelin Man mentioned somewhere else that on Stones in Exile you can hear a demo of Taylor playing the riff on acoustic briefly. This is why we think Taylor plays the dobro part and also why he gets the writing credit. Keith plays the main electric part but Taylor double it on the dobro.