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Taylor1
Mathijs is very knowledgeable about guitars and music, but it sounds like he tries to lessen Taylor’s contributions.There is no proof he doesn’t play on Brown Sugar or Rip this Joint. He was very capable of playing like Keith.But even if he Mathijs is right that Taylor doesnt play on Brown Sugar orRip this Joint, his comments that Taylor was terrible on the 50 and Counting Tour is just his subjective opinion. My opinion is given the limited opportunity for him to warm up by playing on one or two songs, his playing in my subjective opinion was good.I find performances on Glastonbury and Hyde Park songs Can’t You Hear Me Knocking and Midnight Rambler are good andare better than Woods playing.I’d like to hear his critique of Woods playing on those tracks.This is not a knock on Wood, I love his playing in1975 ,1977,1978,1989, 1990 .On those hewas great.
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TheflyingDutchman
I only get insecure about guitarist's skills when Jeff Beck tells me I'm wrong. No joking, always judge for yourself.
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TravelinMan
Taylor’s parts can be heard on Rocks Off, but I think his boogie pattern on Rip This Joint is pretty low in the mix. The slide on the bootleg is different from anything I’ve heard him do before so I’m not sure about that.
It’s 100% Taylor on Shake Your Hips:
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Taylor1
Ialways thought Taylor's guitar on the album version of Live With Me was Keith and Keith's part was Taylor's. Is Taylor paying rhythm on the album version of Live With Me
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Taylor1
Ialways thought Taylor's guitar on the album version of Live With Me was Keith and Keith's part was Taylor's. Is Taylor paying rhythm on the album version of Live With Me
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FPQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
FPQuote
MathijsQuote
TravelinManQuote
MathijsQuote
TravelinManQuote
TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.
I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.
I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.
Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.
Mathijs
Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?
Sure.
Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right
Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle
Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake
Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards
Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards
Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.
Mathijs
I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.
But the right hand don't.
So you feel it is Taylor on the lead parts on right? That's what Travelin Man suggested as well.
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DandelionPowderman
No, Taylor plays the rhythm throughout. His right hand gives him away (playing style). Keith would never play a boogie this way all through a song.
Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.Quote
Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
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Taylor1Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.Quote
Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
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MathijsQuote
Taylor1Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.Quote
Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.
Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor
Mathijs
There used to be a bootleg on youtube that you can clearly hear Taylor's guitar played throughout Rocks Off. Ibeg to differ but the outro solo is brillant. I do not have the knowledge about guitars like Mathijs and others but to my laymen's ears Taylor's slide on You Gotta Move and Good Time Women do sound very similiar to the slides on Soul Survivorand Happy.Quote
TravelinManQuote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.Quote
Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.
Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor
Mathijs
Part of Exile is whoever was there got to play. So if Richards has a song and Wyman is not there, then Taylor hopped on bass so they could record the basic tracks. This is an integral part of the unit.
You’re mostly correct in your analysis, but I don’t think he was wiped from Rocks Off, he’s just lowered in the mix. There is no Taylor overdub on Rocks Off, it’s one track and it would be nice to hear how the song continued.
Taylor plays bass on Shine A Light and slide on Soul Survivor.
I believe he plays the other rhythm guitar on Rip This Joint and the slide from the bootleg is actually Richards. I’ve never heard Taylor play like that.
His rhythm guitar on Loving Cup might have been replaced, but the bridge sounds like him. We know he played on this at some point because of the studio banter on Stones In Exile.
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Taylor1
There used to be a bootleg on youtube that you can clearly hear Taylor's guitar played throughout Rocks Off. Ibeg to differ but the outro solo is brillant. I do not have the knowledge about guitars like Mathijs and others but to my laymen's ears Taylor's slide on You Gotta Move and Good Time Women do sound very similiar to the slides on Soul Survivorand Happy.
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MathijsQuote
Taylor1Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.Quote
Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.
Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor
Mathijs
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MathijsQuote
DandelionPowderman
No, Taylor plays the rhythm throughout. His right hand gives him away (playing style). Keith would never play a boogie this way all through a song.
Totally agree. When Taylor plays a Berry style boogie rhythm his right hand often plays an 'and-one', an upstroke right before the '1'. On Star Star you hear this as a full muted upstroke over multiple strings. I like Taylor's part here, as it makes the track smoother, less of a straight Berry rip-off.
Wood does this too by the way on most 1978 versions, following Charlie's kick drum where the 1 is the kcik and the emphasis is on the snare, the 2.
Mathijs
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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
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FP
Yes that's what I'm saying,there is no evidence of a Taylor rhythm guitar on Rock's Off. Mathijs was suggesting that rhythm parts were wiped from RO and RTJ but I don't hear evidence on any source that MT ever played a rhythm part on either.
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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.
On the 1972 Montreaux video for Hip Shake you can see Keith on lead and solo and Mick on the other guitar.It seems strange that Keith in the next 50 years from when Exile was recorded he never played slide again except for Till the Next Goodbye? His slide playing is only on Let it Bleed and Beggars. And it sounds nothing like any of the slides on Happy, Soul survivor,or Rip this Joint.Does he play any slide on Sticky Fingers? None of it sounds like the slides on Happy or the other Exile songs.Taylor’s slide on You Gotta Move and Good Timr Women sounds much more like the slides on Happy and the others than Keith on say Monkey Man or Jigsaw PuzzleQuote
FPQuote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1Missing in action on Exile? I don’t think so. A couple of solos? Nope how about great solos on Rocks Off, Casino Boogie, Ventiltor Blues, All Down the Line, Stop Breaking Down.Thats5.Great bass on Torn and Frayed,Tumbling DiceJust Wanna See his Face. and Shine a Light.Slide on Soul Survivor Rip this Jointand possibly Happy.Nice acoustic guitar on Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel.Excellent rhythm playing on Hip Shakeand Turd on the Run..Other guitar fills and playing.He is playing on every track except maybe Let it Loose.Again, you don’t need to diminish Taylor.His guitar and bass playing is just as integral as Keith’s.Quote
Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
I do not consider these outro solo's 'shining Mick Taylor moments', no. They're nice, but they do not make Exile great. Mick Taylor does not make Exile such a fantastic album.
Rocks Off -outro solo
Rip This Joint – no Taylor
Shake Your Hips – rhythm guitar
Casino Boogie – outro solo
Tumbling Dice -bass
Sweet Virginia – rhythm guitar
Torn And Frayed – bass
Sweet Black Angel – rhythm guitar
Loving Cup – no taylor
Happy – no Taylor
Turd On The Run – no Taylor
Ventilator Blues – outro solo
I Just Want To See His Face -bass
Let It Loose -no Taylor
All Down The Line -slide guitar
Stop Breaking Down -slide guitar
Shine A Light -lead guitar
Soul Survivor -no Taylor
Mathijs
For the record this is what IU have Mick's contributions as:
Rocks Off
No rhythm part from Taylor I can hear. However he plays slide and fills through out song, possibly through a Leslie, very buried in the mix. Clearer on Hopkins tape version and there used to be a Rock's Off isolated tracks someone had taped at the Exhibitionism show but is infuriatingly from Youtube. Taylor's part combined blues, slows slides and slide in a really cool little part. I agree with Mathijs that it sounds like the remains of this on the final mix are bleed on Keith's main rhythm guitar. This then leads into the outro solo which I always though was the same track as the other parts but maybe an overdub as room feel sounds different to other parts.
Rip This Joint
IMO Taylor plays the slide licks on the bridge, just sounds more fluid than Keith. Also Bill Janovitz in his Exile book thinks this is Taylor.
Shake Your Hips
I honestly have no idea, the weaving suggests Keith on both parts but I am happy to go with the consensus.
Casino Boogie
Agreed Taylor just plays the end solo (which I love!)
Tumbling Dice
Agree Taylor on bass
Sweet Virginia
I think Taylor plays the lead acoustic parts, most books I have read have him on the lead?
Torn And Frayed
Agreed bass. Can't say as to other guitar parts but nothing ever jumped out as being Taylor.
Sweet Black Angel
I honestly can't remember this track off the top of my head so will go with consensus again!
Loving Cup
Used to think Taylor plays electric but now feeling it it Keith. However think MT plays the little fills on the bridge, just doesn't sound like Keith. Also no evidence MT was not about to contribute in LA. I do think Taylor may have come up with the part but was replaced for whatever reason by Richards.
Happy
I don't think Taylor is on this tune, it is well documented Keith knocked this together with Jimmy Miller as a demo and then liked the result. All the slide sounds like Keith as well.
Turd On The Run
I can't say for sure but I think it is probably Keith on both guitars just through the sound and vibe!
Ventilator Blues
From what I remember there are electric rhythm, electric slide and acoustic slide parts on this song. See no reason why Taylor isn't playing at least one part along with the end solo. Neither slide part screams Keith more than Taylor IMO.
I Just Want To See His Face
Agree with consensus on this, Taylor bass.
Let It Loose
Agree with consensus on this, no Taylor.
All Down The Line
Yes amazing Taylor slide solos. Played on a Rickenbacker amazingly! Interestingly has a thinner tone than normal for him probabaly due to the guitar.
Stop Breaking Down
Taylor slide solos. Some of his best, Andy Johns said he pushed Jagger to include it on Exile due to the slid playing. As close as Taylor ever got to sounding like his hero Earl Hooker on slide.
Shine A Light
Taylor lead guitar and I think this is him on bass as well. Bill may have been at recording session but may have then been overdubbed by Taylor.
Soul Survivor
Taylor on slide surely? Thicker tone and vibrato on slide, would be astounded if this was Keith.
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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.
There is an acoustic which just comps chords as well as the main electric slide, what sounds like a resonator slide, and then the lead that comes in about halfway.
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Mathijs
Nothing is presented as fact, but if you add everything up there is quite a clear picture to be seen. I do not want to downplay Taylor's role in the Stones, but it is my opinion that he was far less important than what many people state: that he made the golden Stones period great. Now this may be true for the 1972/1973 tours (where I agree), but not for the previous tours, and certainly not for the studio albums. Take Exile: apart from a couple of (great) solo's Taylor is mainly missing in action. And why is that, in my opinion: he clashes with Keith when it comes to rhythm guitar playing, their timing does not compliment each other but are in the way of each other. And when you are Keith Richards and you are the world's greatest rhythm player and you are the boss because you write and produce the music you can simply wipe any part you don't like and redo it yourself.
The tracks mentioned here are good examples -Brown Sugar, Rocks Off and Rip This Joint.
The latter might be the least good example: on the outtake Taylor's plays a very strange slide, which I think is clearly understandable it was removed. The track then is build up of a rhythm guitar track of two times Richards, and Hopkins main piano. There really isn't anything more needed on the track. The lead guitar parts in the turnarounds is Richards as well, done in an overdub.
Rocks Off has Taylor's rhythm part removed, it is nearly inaudible on the official release. It clashes mainly with the piano part, it is too busy and cluttered, and the sound is phased and not very direct. I think Keith simply didn't like it, wiped it, but it is still audible in the drum microphones. Taylor's solo at the end is an overdub.
Brown Sugar is the best documented case, as there are half a dozen outtakes with Taylor playing various rhythm parts, parts which he replicates for a large part when played live. But his parts, especially the tremelo picked chords track is completely missing in the official version, and replaced with various tracks that are all clearly Keith: a boogie guitar, a Berry licks guitar, the pentatonic runs during the chorus. I believe Richards simply did not like Taylor's parts, as they indeed are not very Rock and Roll, it is fairly subdued, and it clashes with Richards main rhythm track here and there.
I think Taylor's strength is is his beautiful melodic sense showcased in all the great lead guitar tracks we have of him. But he never was a great rhythm player, and when he did he clashed with Keith. Wood always has been a much better rhythm player, and with a much better natural chemistry with Keith, not clashing. Of course Wood is clearly not in the same league as Taylor when it comes to lead guitar.
Mathijs
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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.
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FP
Yes that's what I'm saying,there is no evidence of a Taylor rhythm guitar on Rock's Off. Mathijs was suggesting that rhythm parts were wiped from RO and RTJ but I don't hear evidence on any source that MT ever played a rhythm part on either.
The Exhibitionism show had multitracks of a few songs available at a listening station - IORR member mrpaulincanada recorded them:
[we.tl]
One of the tracks is Taylor's isolated rhythm part, which remains in the final mix, buried in the centre with Keith's two rhythm parts panned left (the original) and right (overdub).
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DandelionPowderman
All guitars are slide on Ventilator Blues.
There is an acoustic which just comps chords as well as the main electric slide, what sounds like a resonator slide, and then the lead that comes in about halfway.
Isn't it also doubling the riff with slide at times?