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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I hear a different lead guitar doing hammer-ons before the choruses. I figured it was the same guitarist as the solo (Richards).

I am surprised to hear that’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout because I read an article where the journalist said Keith was playing the rhythm guitar and they decided to have him play solo before the rest of the band joined. I don’t hear anything particularly like Taylor on the left channel.

I’m usually advocating that I hear Taylor in tracks where others disagree. Here I believe I’m the opposite!

Can you tell me who plays the guitars on Heartbreaker and Can You Hear the Music

Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

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TravelinMan

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan

I am surprised to hear that’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout because I read an article where the journalist said Keith was playing the rhythm guitar and they decided to have him play solo before the rest of the band joined.

Why are you surprised that Taylor played rhythm throughout whatever song?

Just that one in particular because when they were first working on it apparently Richards was playing the boogie rhythm. Reading the article made me think of it in a different light.

IC. Taylor was also very good at playing boogie rhythms.

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TravelinMan

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I hear a different lead guitar doing hammer-ons before the choruses. I figured it was the same guitarist as the solo (Richards).

I am surprised to hear that’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout because I read an article where the journalist said Keith was playing the rhythm guitar and they decided to have him play solo before the rest of the band joined. I don’t hear anything particularly like Taylor on the left channel.

I’m usually advocating that I hear Taylor in tracks where others disagree. Here I believe I’m the opposite!

Can you tell me who plays the guitars on Heartbreaker and Can You Hear the Music

Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

So Keith only plays bass on Heartbreaker and Taylor plays the guitar you can hear in the left channel throughout the song plus the solo with Preston in the right on wah wah clavinet?

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I hear a different lead guitar doing hammer-ons before the choruses. I figured it was the same guitarist as the solo (Richards).

I am surprised to hear that’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout because I read an article where the journalist said Keith was playing the rhythm guitar and they decided to have him play solo before the rest of the band joined. I don’t hear anything particularly like Taylor on the left channel.

I’m usually advocating that I hear Taylor in tracks where others disagree. Here I believe I’m the opposite!

Can you tell me who plays the guitars on Heartbreaker and Can You Hear the Music

Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

So Keith only plays bass on Heartbreaker and Taylor plays the guitar you can hear in the left channel throughout the song plus the solo with Preston in the right on wah wah clavinet?

I just listened and I think the remix does a good job of showcasing the parts:

My guess is the acoustic guitar is Richards and Taylor plays the electric. I don’t hear two electrics at any single time.

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TravelinMan

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I hear a different lead guitar doing hammer-ons before the choruses. I figured it was the same guitarist as the solo (Richards).

I am surprised to hear that’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout because I read an article where the journalist said Keith was playing the rhythm guitar and they decided to have him play solo before the rest of the band joined. I don’t hear anything particularly like Taylor on the left channel.

I’m usually advocating that I hear Taylor in tracks where others disagree. Here I believe I’m the opposite!

Can you tell me who plays the guitars on Heartbreaker and Can You Hear the Music

Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

So Keith only plays bass on Heartbreaker and Taylor plays the guitar you can hear in the left channel throughout the song plus the solo with Preston in the right on wah wah clavinet?

I just listened and I think the remix does a good job of showcasing the parts:

My guess is the acoustic guitar is Richards and Taylor plays the electric. I don’t hear two electrics at any single time.

There is an acoustic guitar on the album Heartbreaker? I only hear the electric.I hear the acoustic on the deluxe outtake

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

Great thing about @#$%& is how the Bass comes in so late. Keith loves that trick.
I'm glad others hear some Taylor fills during the solo too. I esp. hear something at the very end of the solo, that sounds like a Taylor trill.
That weird guitar during 'John wayne' is crazy. I always imagine a wall coming down with the band next door, playing their own song, tumbling into the room.

@ Taylor 1






The min-7 chords guitar etc is definitely Keith.
The solo Taylor. Listen to Brusselss'73, it unravels the story.
The Wah-Wah is the Devil in disguise.

Great song.

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TheflyingDutchman
@ Taylor 1






The min-7 chords intro etc is definitely Keith.
The solo Taylor. Listen to Brusselss'73, it unravels the story.
The Wah-Wah is the Devil in disguise.

Great song.

How did I miss this video? Fantastic.

btw - did anyone catch this a minute ago? Like digital lightning - and two threads disappeared. But both of them had already been nixed by BV, I think.

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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Taylor1

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I hear a different lead guitar doing hammer-ons before the choruses. I figured it was the same guitarist as the solo (Richards).

I am surprised to hear that’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout because I read an article where the journalist said Keith was playing the rhythm guitar and they decided to have him play solo before the rest of the band joined. I don’t hear anything particularly like Taylor on the left channel.

I’m usually advocating that I hear Taylor in tracks where others disagree. Here I believe I’m the opposite!

Can you tell me who plays the guitars on Heartbreaker and Can You Hear the Music

Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

So Keith only plays bass on Heartbreaker and Taylor plays the guitar you can hear in the left channel throughout the song plus the solo with Preston in the right on wah wah clavinet?

I just listened and I think the remix does a good job of showcasing the parts:

My guess is the acoustic guitar is Richards and Taylor plays the electric. I don’t hear two electrics at any single time.

There is an acoustic guitar on the album Heartbreaker? I only hear the electric.I hear the acoustic on the deluxe outtake

Yeah, I never noticed it until the remixed version. Then I went back and listened to the vintage version and it’s in there.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

Great thing about @#$%& is how the Bass comes in so late. Keith loves that trick.
I'm glad others hear some Taylor fills during the solo too. I esp. hear something at the very end of the solo, that sounds like a Taylor trill.
That weird guitar during 'John wayne' is crazy. I always imagine a wall coming down with the band next door, playing their own song, tumbling into the room.

I think they dubbed that guitar in there to manipulate it over the John Wayne line. When they released the uncensored version it seems they just took the effect off.

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TravelinMan


Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

Heartbreaker:
Keith: bass, all electric guitars, acoustic guitar
Taylor: lead guitar (solo's)

Can't You Hear the Music:
Keith: leslie rhythm guitar
Taylor: bass, octave fuzz guitar

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan


Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

Heartbreaker:
Keith: bass, all electric guitars, acoustic guitar
Taylor: lead guitar (solo's)

Can't You Hear the Music:
Keith: leslie rhythm guitar
Taylor: bass, octave fuzz guitar

Mathijs

Yeah this looks correct.

I watched the Exile doc and there is an interesting false start take of Loving Cup with Keith giving out instructions to Charlie to wait to come in. He then directs Mick Taylor specifically to come in when he feels it. This is the Exile version of the song btw. I wonder what part he’s referring to Taylor playing?

Makes sense why certain songs Taylor comes in about halfway to add a new element.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-19 14:23 by TravelinMan.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan


Hear the Music: Richards playing the Leslie guitar and Taylor playing the one with what sounds like a fuzz octave pedal.

Heartbreaker: Taylor plays the watery lead guitar but I’d have to listen again to see if there is another guitar or not.

Heartbreaker:
Keith: bass, all electric guitars, acoustic guitar
Taylor: lead guitar (solo's)

Can't You Hear the Music:
Keith: leslie rhythm guitar
Taylor: bass, octave fuzz guitar

Mathijs

Hi Mathijs, you always have very clear info about the guitar tracks on Stones tunes. Are you thoughts educated guesses or based on any sources? I am genuinely interested as there seems so much confusion about who plays what with even the Stones not seeming to remember clearly. For example Travelin Man mentioned to me he emailed Mick Taylor about Brown Sugar and the reply confirmed he did play on it. However I see from other threads about Brown Sugar you say Taylor was mixed off the LP version? Although on another you mentioned he plays the tremelo picked intro chords?

Another poster on the Gear Page responded to a thread I made about Loving Cup and made a reference to session logs he had apparently seen, however he was then banned from TGP so I didn't manage to find out what logs he was on about sadly.

Always fascinating to hear your thoughts

Also you may enjoy the thread I started about Loving Cup with Travelin Man contributing also:
[www.thegearpage.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-19 19:12 by FP.

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FP
For example Travelin Man mentioned to me he emailed Mick Taylor about Brown Sugar and the reply confirmed he did play on it.

Of Course MT played on the live versions. That's what's Taylor's representative likely meant.

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TheflyingDutchman

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FP
For example Travelin Man mentioned to me he emailed Mick Taylor about Brown Sugar and the reply confirmed he did play on it.

Of Course MT played on the live versions. That's what's Taylor's representative likely meant.

I think TM asked specifically about the studio version but he will have to confirm

I never really liked Star Star but after reading this thread I relistened and enjoyed it's sleazy charms. I always felt the words were a prototype of the style of lyrics Jagger wrote on Some Girls.

Th guitars sound great and while Keith can play those lead licks in his sleep they have rarely sounded so nasty!

Also demonstrates MT and KR could weave when they felt like it.

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TravelinMan

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

Great thing about @#$%& is how the Bass comes in so late. Keith loves that trick.
I'm glad others hear some Taylor fills during the solo too. I esp. hear something at the very end of the solo, that sounds like a Taylor trill.
That weird guitar during 'John wayne' is crazy. I always imagine a wall coming down with the band next door, playing their own song, tumbling into the room.

I think they dubbed that guitar in there to manipulate it over the John Wayne line. When they released the uncensored version it seems they just took the effect off.

Agree. Wasn't there also a crazy 70's era edit they had thrown on top of "bet you keep your pussy clean"?

On Coming Down Again there is a great, weird effect by Keith on the guitar right before he sings '' Slipped my tongue in someone else's pie'', and at the outro of the song which sounds like someone moaning.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-20 02:13 by Taylor1.

For education purposes. A demonstration from RipX Deep Audio software

Download link
[wetransfer.com]

2 items
Star Star_Instr.rar
44.8 MB

Star Star_vocals.rar
39 MB



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-19 23:56 by midimannz.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

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FP
I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

Yeah after reading that old NME article I listened to the track a new way. The chunky rhythm made me think of Richards and the really clean Berry-fills made me think of Taylor on Bye Bye Johnny. Usually Richards uses a pretty overdriven tone for Berry stuff.

I could also see this as a song where Richards replaced Taylor’s basic track and left a few snippets in, like the licks before the chorus. Sort of my running theory with the bridge in Loving Cup.

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TravelinMan

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FP
I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

Yeah after reading that old NME article I listened to the track a new way. The chunky rhythm made me think of Richards and the really clean Berry-fills made me think of Taylor on Bye Bye Johnny. Usually Richards uses a pretty overdriven tone for Berry stuff.

I could also see this as a song where Richards replaced Taylor’s basic track and left a few snippets in, like the licks before the chorus. Sort of my running theory with the bridge in Loving Cup.

Yes it is very hard to tell with the more basic rock and roll songs as Taylor and Keith can play this sort of thing without thinking about it.

I was never sure if songs like B*tch and Shake Your Hips are all Keith, but then Taylor played some pretty raunchy rhythm on Live With Me. Also I think those songs sound off the floor and the groove would need two guitars bouncing off each other live.

I have a vague recollection Keith replaced some Taylor parts on Yas Yas but not sure if he didn't like the playing or if it was out of tune etc so needed fixing.

I used to think that apart from Exile it was pretty much Taylor and Richards either on lead or rhythm. Exile was it's own thing due to the various recording difficulties. Now I am starting to think everything I thought was Taylor is Keith and vice versa on some songs! Or Jagger!!!

Sadly no-one ever offers any evidence (including me!) so I think we will never really know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-20 20:32 by FP.

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FP

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

But the right hand don't.

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FP

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TravelinMan

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FP
I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

Yeah after reading that old NME article I listened to the track a new way. The chunky rhythm made me think of Richards and the really clean Berry-fills made me think of Taylor on Bye Bye Johnny. Usually Richards uses a pretty overdriven tone for Berry stuff.

I could also see this as a song where Richards replaced Taylor’s basic track and left a few snippets in, like the licks before the chorus. Sort of my running theory with the bridge in Loving Cup.

Yes it is very hard to tell with the more basic rock and roll songs as Taylor and Keith can play this sort of thing without thinking about it.

I was never sure if songs like B*tch and Shake Your Hips are all Keith, but then Taylor played some pretty raunchy rhythm on Live With Me. Also I think those songs sound off the floor and the groove would need two guitars bouncing off each other live.

I have a vague recollection Keith replaced some Taylor parts on Yas Yas but not sure if he didn't like the playing or if it was out of tune etc so needed fixing.

I used to think that apart from Exile it was pretty much Taylor and Richards either on lead or rhythm. Exile was it's own thing due to the various recording difficulties. Now I am starting to think everything I thought was Taylor is Keith and vice versa on some songs! Or Jagger!!!

Sadly no-one ever offers any evidence (including me!) so I think we will never really know.

The extended version of Bitch is evidence it’s Taylor. He’s just playing with a crunchy tone. There’s a video of them playing Hip Shake together and Keith Richards always played lead.

The replaced parts on Ya Ya’s were probably done because the tone didn’t have enough crunch. Taylor played fairly clean rhythm live.

I think there are some outtakes with Jagger on guitar like the early version of Signifying and Hillside Blues. I hear who is probably Jagger here and there on the Dallas Rehearsals as well.

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TravelinMan
The replaced parts on Ya Ya’s were probably done because the tone didn’t have enough crunch. Taylor played fairly clean rhythm live.

Taylor's parts were erased as they clashed with Keith's main rhythm guitar. It's the same for quite some Taylor parts on Exile, that were erased as it clashed with Richards' idea for parts. On tracks like Rocks Off and Rip This Joint Taylor's ideas for a rhythm track just didn't work with the rest of the poano and guitar tracks so got erased for the most part.

Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

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FP

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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TravelinMan
I listened to this the other day and I was admiring Keith Richards super clean Chuck Berry fills. Really a nice touch with the reverb on those. Some of his best IMO.

I think this song absolutely fits on this album as the closer. It’s a hell of a way to end the album. I think they should have completed All The Rage back then and had it open the second side. Then put Silver Train as a B-side. I don’t think it’s a strong as All The Rage/You Should Have Seen Her Ass.

I was wrong. It’s Richards on rhythm and the overdubbed solo. Taylor on the fills.

Nope, it's Richards on rhythm, fills and solo, Taylor on rhythm.

Mathijs

Are you saying it’s Taylor playing rhythm throughout?

Sure.

Verse
Intro Keith left channel, pans to right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right

Chorus
Keith rhythm right, Taylor rhythm left, Richards Berry fills right, sax middle, faint rhythm guitar likely Jagger in the middle

Underneath 'I bet you going t to get John Wayne': sounds like a guitar in an echo feedback, strange editing mistake

Solo
Intro to solo underneath 'yes you are' sounds like Taylor
Solo: Richards

Outro: second rhythm guitar in the right channel: Richards

Solo underneath the outro: difficult to hear, sounds like Taylor is doing Berry-bends.

Mathijs

I am pondering if Keith is actually playing all the guitars on Star Star? The left hand rhythm sounds like something Keith had been playing for years.

But the right hand don't.

So you feel it is Taylor on the lead parts on right? That's what Travelin Man suggested as well.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
The replaced parts on Ya Ya’s were probably done because the tone didn’t have enough crunch. Taylor played fairly clean rhythm live.

Taylor's parts were erased as they clashed with Keith's main rhythm guitar. It's the same for quite some Taylor parts on Exile, that were erased as it clashed with Richards' idea for parts. On tracks like Rocks Off and Rip This Joint Taylor's ideas for a rhythm track just didn't work with the rest of the poano and guitar tracks so got erased for the most part.

Mathijs

Out of interest have you a source for this about Yas Yas please or just the style sounds like Keith? How much of MT's rhythm gtr was removed on Yas Yas?

Re RO and RTJ I relistened to the Nicky Hopkins tapes version of RO and it has the same rhythm parts as the release version. No extra Taylor rhythm parts apart from the leady parts that get buried in the final mix.

The version of RTJ is the same apart from having Taylor's full slide track. Two electric rhythms on either side playing pretty much the same boogie pattern both of which sound like Keith.

So we don't have evidence Taylor played parts that clashed with Keith on these songs based on this audio unless you have access to some other bootlegs we are not aware of? I am not saying he did not play parts that were wiped, after all the slide on RTJ was not used. But we have no evidence he played any rhythm parts on the two songs you mentioned. Without an audio source we don't know? If you have any please share

Btw I also noted a comment you made on another thread re Taylor saying he was not a good rhythm player in your opinion (btw I may have misunderstood). IF it is MT playing rhythm parts on Shake Your Hips, Live With Me, B*tch, CYHMK, Star Star then I think he is a good rhythm player, he certainly gels with Keith and if Keith had not liked Taylor's parts he would have replaced them it seems. Also he plays fine rhythm on bootlegs I have heard of the 1972 shows, I never listen and feel "oh this guy is rubbish on rhythm". He plays simple patterns on RO and RTJ and the whole band sound awesome.

No one is going to be as good as Keith as a rhythm player but I think to say MT is a poor rhythm player is a mistake. I do think he was not as inventive as KR, whose rhythm ideas are masterful while MT tends to play pretty standard bar chord stuff. I think his peak as a rhythm player are Shake Your Hips (if him) and Live With Me. SYH is the peak of MT/KR weaving along with the fills they play on I Got The Blues IMO.

Sorry to bang on about sources but I am reading a lot on various forums where people drop nuggets that contradict other opinions but without any evidence. I don't mind people having an opinion and I am not discounting people simply listening and making an educated guess but if there are bootlegs that back up these thoughts, or articles, I would love to hear or read them.

All said with respect to your most likely greater knowledge!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-21 13:47 by FP.

Taylor’s parts can be heard on Rocks Off, but I think his boogie pattern on Rip This Joint is pretty low in the mix. The slide on the bootleg is different from anything I’ve heard him do before so I’m not sure about that.

It’s 100% Taylor on Shake Your Hips:

Mathijs is very knowledgeable about guitars and music, but it sounds like he tries to lessen Taylor’s contributions.There is no proof he doesn’t play on Brown Sugar or Rip this Joint. He was very capable of playing like Keith.But even if he Mathijs is right that Taylor doesnt play on Brown Sugar orRip this Joint, his comments that Taylor was terrible on the 50 and Counting Tour is just his subjective opinion. My opinion is given the limited opportunity for him to warm up by playing on one or two songs, his playing in my subjective opinion was good.I find performances on Glastonbury and Hyde Park songs Can’t You Hear Me Knocking and Midnight Rambler are good andare better than Woods playing.I’d like to hear his critique of Woods playing on those tracks.This is not a knock on Wood, I love his playing in1975 ,1977,1978,1989, 1990 .On those hewas great.

I only get insecure about guitarist's skills when Jeff Beck tells me I'm wrong. No joking, always judge for yourself.