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OT: About politics...
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: September 18, 2014 07:17

I have always considered this forum to be something more than just a Rolling Stones bubble. Therefore I think it's a bit sad that we can't discuss world events, news and politics here. Especially now when there are so many things going on on the world scene. Like the Scottish independence referendum today, the IS terror in the Middle East and other important issues (like the election in Sweden where the nazis claimed 13% and we can't form an effective cabinet). I know this thread will be deleted within twelve hours. And I respect the moderator's right to do so. I just wanted to express my thoughts on this. Maybe there are other members here with the same perspective as I? Anyway, I hope this reflection won't get me banned...

REPLY FROM THE IORR EDITOR:

You know IORR is a private site owned by me. It is like being invited into my house. You are in my house as a guest, and you may talk virtually about anything you like. There are approx two million people who follow these talks as well as the editorial parts of IORR every year.

I am the only moderator on IORR. And there will never be any other moderators. When I die then IORR will be closed, unless I get someone to be in charge, and that is not high on my list. Too busy, with a full time job, five grandchildren, friends, biking, running, and a busy travel plan.

So far there are 10-20 people on IORR who have contacted me personally and announced I should have been terminated, some say they will do it personally. Others, may be 50 or so, have called me names which would put you into jail if you used them to a person in public services most civilized places. The fact that IORR is still open with a forum is that I ignore these trolls and hate people, I have learned to live with them, and I have saved a list of names and locations of these people if something happens.

By allowing more political comments and discussions, and by allowing more heate posts, there will be more work for me, more banning, more hate, more threats, more moderation, and there is nothing at all to win for me. As I said, my live is not in IORR alone but also many other places.

Feel free to post within the IORR posting rules, and feel free to talk about politics, religion and so on any OTHER place you like, but NOT on IORR, and please don't take up my time with these discussions every week or so. I have a job to do. Thanks!

Bjornulf
IORR Editor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-18 16:07 by bv.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 18, 2014 07:39

I like politics and discussing it, but unfortunately some people tend to be overly passionate, and it leads to name calling and a complete lack of respect for the other point of view.

So I don't think it's politics per se that is the issue, but the way we tend to not 'play nice' together in that subject area.

Like Taylor vs. Wood on steroids.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: September 18, 2014 09:19

I get enough politics on Facebook. It's laughable when things get heated here. But yeah, this site is what's really important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-18 09:19 by 24FPS.

Re: OT: About politics...
Date: September 18, 2014 09:53

The comment sections in the online newspapers give a good reason of why discussing politics online is not a good idea, imo.

Trolls crawl out of the woodwork and will effectively destroy the good debate. It happens again and again and again...

Unfortunately, that is the experience I have with this site when discussing politics as well.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 18, 2014 10:17

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The comment sections in the online newspapers give a good reason of why discussing politics online is not a good idea, imo.

Trolls crawl out of the woodwork and will effectively destroy the good debate. It happens again and again and again...

Unfortunately, that is the experience I have with this site when discussing politics as well.

yeah it's too bad...I enjoy a good debate...I don't enjoy though, when the emotion gets so high that people can't control themselves.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: Wroclaw ()
Date: September 18, 2014 10:48

I respect you suggestion and can understand where it comes for. However - this is like the issue of smoking at the end of a meal where various people meet together. For some it is obvious, other would say they would not come in the first place, or would just leave early. Still: almost ALL would enjoy a get together dinner without the smoking ceremony around the table just as we finish. So the "dinner only, no smoking" approach wins.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: Stones CAT ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:01

I agree ...has to be normal discuss about items like this as has to be normal exercise the right to vote in a real democracy ...

Catalans want to vote ...

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:05

Quote
Wroclaw
I respect you suggestion and can understand where it comes for. However - this is like the issue of smoking at the end of a meal where various people meet together. For some it is obvious, other would say they would not come in the first place, or would just leave early. Still: almost ALL would enjoy a get together dinner without the smoking ceremony around the table just as we finish. So the "dinner only, no smoking" approach wins.

I agree with that to an extent(not the literal take on smoking...I completely agree with that).
I just think we miss out on some very interesting discussion by limiting discussion.

It's disappointing that we need to limit it...I understand why, it's just too bad.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:15

Wonder whether there were a "Smoking Room" here, where people could discuss the otherwise outre topics,
it would devolve into catfights and bedlam. Or would the self-selectors be able to govern themselves?

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:20

Quote
swiss
Wonder whether there were a "Smoking Room" here, where people could discuss the otherwise outre topics,
it would devolve into catfights and bedlam. Or would the self-selectors be able to govern themselves?

The simultaneous problem and benefit of the internet is the anonymity.

Unfortunately, like minded people with different political views would get thwarted by the trolls.

I don't see any way around that other than removing the anonymity.

Re: OT: About politics...
Date: September 18, 2014 11:23

<I don't see any way around that other than removing the anonymity.>

Yep.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:25

I like political threads on IORR because they show that what one person from one country finds completely natural and logcial, another person from another country will find 100% abnormal...

It makes for healthy genuine reality checks! thumbs up Then Bjornulf closes the thread! grinning smiley

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: Wroclaw ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:25

Smoking room is a good idea. However I assume it wont work there as well. I mean without becoming a street fight. Some IORR'ians come from countries/cultures where PC is acceptable or even harshly enforced, while others come from countries where PC is despised. While both might speak/write in fluent English, in practice you would have 2 people engaging in conversation without using the same "language". Another (modern) Tower of babel and youtube comments section is already occupying this niche. Just look at any clip at YT related to the East Ukraine situation if you want to understand why nothing good would come. Well: maybe only if we restrict ourselves to the UK/England/Scotland issue where according to British tradition the debate is a bit more artistic and less of the pattern of a civil war, as it is at the rest of the world.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:26

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<I don't see any way around that other than removing the anonymity.>

Yep.

yet I love the anonymity...I just don't think I feel the need to 'act up' just because I can.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:28

I'm not sure about that -- I mean, bv has no interest (I would presume) in having another area called
"The Smoking Room" where people could kibbitz about politics etc, so it's moot. But if there were such
a place, and it were visited by us, the gang from iorr, a self-selecting jumble, probably most people
would not even enter that room because it didn't have anything to do with the Stones. When there are
OTs we all stumble upon them, and if we're bored, we click. If you had to go to another area perhaps only
"game" people would wander in.

As to the anonymity/internet thing, I've read in the past few years that even without anonymity people
lose their manners online. It's something about the screen and 1s and 0s rather than beating hearts
and expanding lungs and twinkling eyes and body language. People go cray on Facebook, even when you know
who they are!

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 18, 2014 11:32

Quote
swiss
I'm not sure about that -- I mean, bv has no interest (I would presume) in having another area called
"The Smoking Room" where people could kibbitz about politics etc, so it's moot. But if there were such
a place, and it were visited by us, the gang from iorr, a self-selecting jumble, probably most people
would not even enter that room because it didn't have anything to do with the Stones. When there are
OTs we all stumble upon them, and if we're bored, we click. If you had to go to another area perhaps only
"game" people would wander in.

As to the anonymity/internet thing, I've read in the past few years that even without anonymity people
lose their manners online. It's something about the screen and 1s and 0s rather than beating hearts
and expanding lungs and twinkling eyes and body language. People go cray on Facebook, even when you know
who they are!

you're seriously pissing me off right now.

what were we talking about again?

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: September 18, 2014 13:08

There were some interesting political discussions on shidoobee awhile back. It degenerated to name calling & certain elements ganging up on anyone who dared to go outside the group think. Some folks left. It was sad.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: September 18, 2014 13:15

It always ends in an argument. Easy fix would be to make a Facebook group called Stones fans' Politics Discussion.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: September 18, 2014 13:26

Quote
Stoneage
I have always considered this forum to be something more than just a Rolling Stones bubble. Therefore I think it's a bit sad that we can't discuss world events, news and politics here. Especially now when there are so many things going on on the world scene. Like the Scottish independence referendum today, the IS terror in the Middle East and other important issues (like the election in Sweden where the nazis claimed 13% and we can't form an effective cabinet). I know this thread will be deleted within twelve hours. And I respect the moderator's right to do so. I just wanted to express my thoughts on this. Maybe there are other members here with the same perspective as I? Anyway, I hope this reflection won't get me banned...

The Nazis got 13%? Now that's not really true is it.

Edit: not picking a fight



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-18 13:28 by Redhotcarpet.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: MKjan ()
Date: September 18, 2014 13:55

George W Bush is a genius, a statesman of the highest order, the greatest president the US has ever had.
uh ooh…………smoking smiley

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: September 18, 2014 13:59

Quote
MKjan
George W Bush is a genius, a statesman of the highest order, the greatest president the US has ever had.
uh ooh…………smoking smiley

ruh roh, now you've done it!hot smiley

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: September 18, 2014 14:25

The only discussion about politics, which I find suitable on a Rolling Stones oriented site, is a discussion of the political views that the band and its members express, most of all in their music.

Even when the Stones give rise to some political oriented discussions, it is not my or other posters' views on that issue that are and ought to be interesting, but the band's view.

I am in no way related to other posters here, apart from my fanship towards the Stones. So I see no relevance for me in taking part in discussion of political issues here, that have no bearings on the Stones.

If or when I should want to take part a political discussion, there are other sites and scenes for that, in my opinion.

By the way, even mutual greetings on national days and maybe also religious dates that to some are harmless, might be challenging to some others.

Re: OT: About politics...
Date: September 18, 2014 14:50

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-18 15:27 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: nightskyman ()
Date: September 18, 2014 15:52

Quote
Witness
The only discussion about politics, which I find suitable on a Rolling Stones oriented site, is a discussion of the political views that the band and its members express, most of all in their music.

Even when the Stones give rise to some political oriented discussions, it is not my or other posters' views on that issue that are and ought to be interesting, but the band's view.

I am in no way related to other posters here, apart from my fanship towards the Stones. So I see no relevance for me in taking part in discussion of political issues here, that have no bearings on the Stones.

If or when I should want to take part a political discussion, there are other sites and scenes for that, in my opinion.

By the way, even mutual greetings on national days and maybe also religious dates that to some are harmless, might be challenging to some others.

Then it would be on topic, not off topic.

I think the original post meant 'politics' as an off topic discussion.

Just saying...

Re: OT: About politics...
Posted by: bv ()
Date: September 18, 2014 16:06

You know IORR is a private site owned by me. It is like being invited into my house. You are in my house as a guest, and you may talk virtually about anything you like. There are approx two million people who follow these talks as well as the editorial parts of IORR every year.

I am the only moderator on IORR. And there will never be any other moderators. When I die then IORR will be closed, unless I get someone to be in charge, and that is not high on my list. Too busy, with a full time job, five grandchildren, friends, biking, running, and a busy travel plan.

So far there are 10-20 people on IORR who have contacted me personally and announced I should have been terminated, some say they will do it personally. Others, may be 50 or so, have called me names which would put you into jail if you used them to a person in public services most civilized places. The fact that IORR is still open with a forum is that I ignore these trolls and hate people, I have learned to live with them, and I have saved a list of names and locations of these people if something happens.

By allowing more political comments and discussions, and by allowing more heate posts, there will be more work for me, more banning, more hate, more threats, more moderation, and there is nothing at all to win for me. As I said, my live is not in IORR alone but also many other places.

Feel free to post within the IORR posting rules, and feel free to talk about politics, religion and so on any OTHER place you like, but NOT on IORR, and please don't take up my time with these discussions every week or so. I have a job to do. Thanks!

Bjornulf
IORR Editor



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