I mean---where are their most Fans. I would say Netherland and germany.

France? Maybe Germany. Sweden has lots but not too many hardcore fans.

Netherlands
Germany
France

Spain and Portugal are said to have great crowds, but less numerous fans.
I've never seen a Stones show in those 2 countries, though

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

Duh! Maybe England.

Netherlands and Germany.

I'd say Sweden among many others!
Spain and Barcelona usually gets real hot when the Stones
play there!

HJofSweden

Germany for sure. Most Stones fans in Europe. Every tour they play around 10 large sold ou crowds of 50,000 - 90,000 people in Germany. Not a big surprise, as Germany is probably the largest country in West Wurope, with around 85 millin people, and a great love for the Stones.

The Netherlands are the counry with most fans if you @#$%& fans divided by total population. Again for sure.

They played a large sold out crowd in Luxembourg 1995, but that show was lots of people on travel from the Netherlands, Belgium etc, so it is special. And if they go to Iclenad nex year, I am sure 30,000 people woyuld come i.e. 10% of the poulation in Iceland, but again that is different. Coming to a show does nt mean you are a Stones fan. As for German and the Netherlands the Stones may come again ad again, tour after tour, and they may play many lage sold out shows every time. Amazing!

The European Tour 2003

Date Year Venue City Country Capacity

Wed June 4 2003 Olympiahalle Munich Germany 11,000
Fri June 6 2003 Olympiastadion Munich Germany 60,000
Sun June 8 2003 Circus Krone Bau Munich Germany 2,500
Tue June 10 2003 Stadio Giuseppe Meazza San Siro, Milan Italy 65,000
Fri June 13 2003 Vision Zukunftspark Oberhausen Germany 70,000
Sun June 15 2003 Olympic Stadium Berlin Germany 50,000
Wed June 18 2003 Ernst Happel Stadium Vienna Austria 55,000
Fri June 20 2003 Festwiese Leipzig Germany 65,000
Sun June 22 2003 Ring (racetrack) Hockenheim Germany 75,000
Wed June 25 2003 San Mamés - tickets Bilbao Spain 37,500
Fri June 27 2003 Estadio Vicente Calderon Madrid Spain 55,000
Sun June 29 2003 Stadi Olimpic Montjuic Barcelona Spain 60,000
Sat July 5 2003 Stade Velodrome - map Marseille France 60,000
Mon July 7 2003 Palais Omnisports Bercy Paris France 17,000
Wed July 9 2003 Stade de France - map Saint Denis (Paris) France 80,000
Fri July 11 2003 Olympia Paris France 2,400
Sun July 13 2003 Parken - map Copenhagen Denmark 47,000
Wed July 16 2003 Olympic Stadium Helsinki Finland 45,000
Fri July 18 2003 Stockholms Stadion Stockholm Sweden 30,000
Sun July 20 2003 Globen - map Stockholm Sweden 14,500
Tue July 22 2003 Cirkus Stockholm Sweden 1,800
Thu July 24 2003 AOL-Arena Hamburg Germany 40,000
Sun July 27 2003 Letenska Plan - tickets Prague Czech Republic 80,000
Wed July 30 2003 Downsview Park Toronto Canada 450,000
Fri Aug 8 2003 Open Air Arena Hannover Germany 50,000
Mon August 11 2003 Feyenoord Stadium (De Kuip) Rotterdam The Netherlands 50,000
Wed August 13 2003 Feyenoord Stadium (De Kuip) Rotterdam The Netherlands 45,000
Fri August 15 2003 Ahoy - map Rotterdam The Netherlands 11,000
Sat Aug. 16 2003 Vredenburg Utrecht The Netherlands 2,000
Tue Aug. 19 2003 Amsterdam ArenA Amsterdam The Netherlands 52,000
Sun Aug 24 2003 Twickenham Rugby Ground London Great Britain 55,000
Wed Aug 27 2003 Astoria London Great Britain 1,600
Fri Aug 29 2003 Wembley Arena - map London Great Britain 11,000
Mon Sep 1 2003 Glasgow SECC arena - map Glasgow Scotland, Great Britain 8,200
Wed Sep 3 2003 Glasgow SECC arena - map Glasgow Scotland, Great Britain 8,200
Fri Sep 5 2003 Manchester Evening News arena - map Manchester Great Britain 16,000
Sun Sep 7 2003 TW Classic Festival site Werchter, (near Brussels) Belgium 75,000
Tue Sep 9 2003 The Point - map Dublin Ireland 7,500
Thu Sep 11 2003 The Point - map Dublin Ireland 7,500
Sat Sep 13 2003 Wembley Arena - map London Great Britain 11,000
Mon Sep 15 2003 Wembley Arena - map London Great Britain 11,000
Sat Sep 20 2003 Twickenham Rugby Ground London Great Britain 55,000
Mon Sep 22 2003 Amsterdam ArenA Amsterdam The Netherlands 52,000
Thu Sep 25 2003 Foietes Stadium Benidorm Spain 32,000
Sat Sep 27 2003 Estádio Municipal Coimbra Coimbra Portugal 45,000
Mon Sep 29 2003 Feria de Muestras (festival site) Zaragoza Spain 35,000
Thu Oct 2 2003 Letzigrund Stadium Zürich Switzerland 40,000


Bjornulf

Bv---where are you get your information from??

Oberhausen --sure more than 85000

Hockenheim Ring---nearly 90000

GIve the Ukrains some strong shows & the Russians
(given we count the land mass "within" Ural as Europe)
and they will show us the meaning of "crowd"...

But I think Bjornulf makes the right analysis here.
the Netherlands are very well represented at this board.

As I said before we all tend to be a little ethno-
and Western Europe-centrists. Hungary & Czech Republic
might be jokers when dividing the fans with the populations.
Maybe Poland too. As would Norway & Sweden.

I get my numbers from IORR... Tour dates and reviews 2003...
[iorr.org]

The Stones do not publish crowd numbers anymore, so the LICKS numbers are based on my own estimates from being at those show myself, and by many other sources. I don't make up numbers. They are based on hard work. From seing a few hundred crowds I am not that bad at counting tens of thousand people. It is some sort of experience you know. Hockenheim 1995 was way bigger and packed than Hockenheim 2003 I will tell you. I went to both. Oberhausen was a bit smaller than Hockenheim that same year.

Anyway, Germany is by far the country in Europe with most fans by quantity. I see the same by IORR memberships and visitors. One day I will publish an updated list of IORR visitors. There are many hundred thousand, and that list will show this easily.

Bjornulf

Coutries are just too small for the Stones.
Europe is just too small for the Stones.
Only the world fits.

Germany has indeed an amazing Stones support. As far as I heard on TV the B2B tour drew about 550.000 people. Only Michael Jackson was able to top this figure by a few thousands during the History Tour.

I just checked the iorr.org figures about the B2B tour. If these are correct close to 720.000 people attended the '98 leg of the German B2B tour. Incredible!

Being a scholar myself
(in this very moment I just left the
definite evidences - some 650 -
to a heavy trial, a Law Suit Proces
between Sami People & Land Owners)
I understand to a fair extent & really appreciate
tour work Bjornulf; not the least the number
analysis and such stuff you mention yourself.

I hope you dont took my words as some kind of doubtful thinking
about this, or that I put in questions your estimations or
conclusions on the Stones fans/nations issue.

Yet you could always put in some more parameters to detailize the whole picture;
(e.g.) how are the age distribution in each country, respectively.
But noone asks for a Ph.D-grade works here, I know.
What you do, Bjornulf, is ten times heavier than such a work anyhow.

Anyway; what you say is right, of course.
Your days/nights must have some 60 hours, I dont get it how you manage it all.

I just wanted to add a flavour of slight criticism to us all,
for being so Western orientated. Of course Ukraine is decades behind us in rock culture... But Hungary are not; neither Czech Rep. I understand Keith is very into playing in former Iron Curtain countries &
I believe Jagger´s not that negative either. As long as he can have the money pal...

FInally; a (2) question(-s) - How´s the interest for the Stones in Asia (Middle & Far East in particular?)... And What about Africa?

>> Maybe Poland too. <<
smile: what do you mean "maybe"? the sweet thing here is that even people who weren't even born yet in 67 dig the Stones for playing Warsaw way back then.
the Netherlands have the best chanting for Charlie i've ever been part of, but the most radiant crowds i've been in were in Prague (90 & 95) (and counting on 06). people came to those shows from all over the former communist bloc and the energy that got generated between the people and the band was just @#$%& beautiful. look at me - i'm still glowing from it. :E


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

I have to tell a fantastic number about show visitors. Swedish rockgroup Gyllene Tider (featuring Per Gessle) toured Sweden summer 2004 and 500.000 visited their shows. The population in Sweden is 9.000.000 citizens...
Unbreakable?

Hmmm, Here's a protest! I went to several of the Licks 2002-2003-shows. In the US, all over Europe, Hong Kong etc. But The Stones never played in my country on this tour. So I buy the tickets and the Germans, Danes, Swedes, Dutch, french, chinese, english and americans get the credit for being the hottest Stones worshipers... OK, doesn't matter. But what if we used the statistics in a different way: How many dutch, how many danes, germans, swedes etc followed the tour to at least ten (10) cities or concerts? And how many percent of the population is that? That's the only way to find out where the true fans live... And also to find out where the real Stones lunatics live.

You can always read statistics the way you want. But you can't "find out where the true fans live" in this statistics 'cause the ticket-buyers arent registrered by the country they live in.
But I understand what you mean.

Although I don't live there this time around I have some great friends in Italy. Hardcore Stoners. But they do suffer one of the weirdest injustices in Euro Rock: for some reason the Stones have pretty much shunned Italy. Of course they've played there through the years but compared to the other major countries it has been very slim pickins.

I agree on that Chelsea. Italy has that same kind of vibe as Spain. I know some Italians in the Netherlands who just love the Stones!

And I agree with a lot of people here that the Netherlands is a true Stones country, although I don't know a lot of young people (like myself) who love them. Most people I know from school, work, the city, etc think of the Stones as dinosaurs. I did see a lot of young people at gigs, but I doubt wether they were real fans or if they just wanted to see them because of their name. That's why it's so imporant the Stones keep rolling. It's the best way to keep the music alive.

In Italy we hardcore stoners feel like a minority: unfortunately, this is one of the countries where the Stones are most underrated...they have been overlooking Italy after the poor ticket sale of the concerts in Rome in 1990, and it took 13 years to see them performing here again.
So, unfortunately, I don't think Italy can be considered as a "Stone - Country" yet, but I hope the upcoming album and tour will prove me wrong!
According to me, the n.1 Stone - Country in Europe are the Netherlands!

Chelsea, have you been living in Italy? Where? I live in Napoli!

"got to be worked on
don't have no bark nor bite..."

well, sure: the most Stones fans are in germany--the best maybe in the Netherlands, but what about EASTERN EUROPE? Bulgaria--Hungary or greece and Turkey?.. and Ukraine--Lettland--Russia and so on?

Turkey is certainly not a Stones country. I was at the final show of the BtB tour there on Sept. 19, 1998 and it was one of the smallest stadium crowds ever. Ali Sami Yen - only 15,000 people in a stadium. Big cultural difference I think, but next time the Stones go to Turkey may be they play to 30,000. Who knows. But they loved "Paint It Black" a lot.

Ukrain is one of the largest countries in Europe, with a population of more than 50 million people. I would not be surprised if they went to Kiev next summer, and they would certainly sell out a stadium show or two there no problem.

Russia was sold out 1998 but far away and expensive for tour travel, like Kiev would be, and as they play arena in Helsinki next summer, the stadium stage won't be nearby. The show in Estonia was great. Most other countries going east do not have the economy to pay for a 300 crew stadium travel but Hungary is a must I think. Greece they play a sold out show at the Olympic stadium every 2nd tour, and I will be back every time they play there. Great crowd and experience to see the Stones in Vangelis land.

Bjornulf

Wasn't the 1998 show in Athens the first Greek show since 1967 or so?

Sure it was a long while since they played Athens before that, but that was due to political and other external reasons, and not due to lack of interest in Greece. The crowd seemed to be more than ready, and it was strange to go from a big sold out extatic crowd of 80,000 people at the Olympic stadium in Athens, and then to Turkey, Istanbul, one of the larges cities in the world, where they played to a small stadium crowd of 15,000 people, and most people did not know any of their songs.

Bjornulf

Hi Wild One in Napoli, I lived in Roma; grew up there and miss it every day.
I agree that Germany and netherlands are the main Euro countries
Bjornulf, if you read this: why do you think the Stones don't go to Italy? yes, there have been poor ticketsales compared to the other Euro markets but IMo this is because they never went there for so long. Believe me when I was there
"i Rolling" were huge and we all wished they'd come on.

I think the Netherlands. I live in the Netherlands too, and I'm only a teenager, so you're not alone Rutger.

Italy is special for the Stones. It was great in 1982. Mundialito. We all remember that. Soccer. Stones. Mick in the 21 jersey.

Then I think they had problems with 1990 I think, not sold out as far as I remember, again related to football? Almost empty stadium for one of the shows they recorded for the IMAX, as far as I remember.

They did Zeltweg with lots of Stones fans from Italy and they did Imst again with many Italians on travel, but I think they have had problems to get the right deal or promoter. They tried Monza for 1995 but again if failed before it went on sale. In 1998 they were ready and booked and I was in Milan, the show after the opening show Nuremberg. Sold out more than 65,000 tickets. But Mick had lost his voice and they had to cancel on show day and also cancel Bilbao, where they played on the LICKS tour.

San Siro was packed and ready as ever during LICKS. I think that proved that Italy is more than ready for the Stones. Now I hope they can do more shows, like Rome and Naples, but I don't know the concert industri in Italy, if other bands like U2 sell well there, or if it is more like Succero - which did an excellent show in Tromsø Norway last week by the way - 46664 Arctic - are more popular.

When I have time and money left over after touring, I go to Italy. So seing the Stones in Italy would be fantastic. Not just San Siro, but more.

Generally I hate to call any country "Stones country". They have so many fans. When I travel I never think about where I am. Some times I have to show my passport. But once inside the venue it is all the same every time. Stonesland. Great crowds. Friends from all over the world. Lots of local fans who are happy, whether they come for the first time ever or for the 5th show in the city on that tour. When you turn around and you see 50,000 smiling faces then you know you are in Stonesland.

Bjornulf

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if other bands like U2 sell well there

U2 are playing two shows at San Siro and one at Stadio Olimpico in Rome.

well, its hard to answer, what the stones mean to europeans. There's almost no difference to US, when you look at western europe, but i would say, to a lot of people, who lived behind the iron curtain til 1990, the Stones really ment freedom. So the feelings are deeper, but not for the rock and roll stars, for the music, but fot what the stones simbolize. So you can't count here like: how many sold out shows. I remember 1995 Budapest concert: the stadium was not full, because of the prices - economic decrease in Hungary at the time. It was real sad to see the tenthousends, who had no money for the ticket, but came, and stood near the stadium, just to hear the sound of freedom. Those people couldn't get in, for whom they ment the most. Who were against the communist-era before, but the new freedom has brouth also nothing to them.