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treaclefingersQuote
liddasQuote
treaclefingers
I'm wondering whether we can have a reasonable discussion on something I've wondered about for some time? The ability for the stones to put out what most might consider offensive lyrics, that really don't seem to have a negative impact on them at all. Mick's lyrics seem Teflon.
How does Mick get away with it? If it's another mainstream artist, aren't they getting slammed?
The very very simple answer is that for the common people in most countries none of the Stones' lyrics are "incredibly offensive", or even "offensive".
Might be vulgar or gross at times, inappropriate in certain contexts too, but "offensive"?
C
So you you're saying 'vulgar, gross and inappropriate' might be fine, but offensive is 'out'.
Thanks for the ground rules liddas, it helps everyone out a lot. Next time I'll just come to you first.
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dandelion1967
I really think Stray Cat Blues is very raw!
Bet your mamma don't know that you spit like that...
And Mick is talking about a thirteen years old!
To my ears it sound much more raw than "Down with your bedclothes, up with your nightshirt. You won't shout as I fiddle about" from Tommy. Uncle Ernie is a caracter, in Stray Cat Blues there's no caracter at all! Just Mick Jagger singing.
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dandelion1967
I really think Stray Cat Blues is very raw!
Bet your mamma don't know that you spit like that...
And Mick is talking about a thirteen years old!
To my ears it sound much more raw than "Down with your bedclothes, up with your nightshirt. You won't shout as I fiddle about" from Tommy. Uncle Ernie is a caracter, in Stray Cat Blues there's no caracter at all! Just Mick Jagger singing.
In '68 he got away with it ...nowadays he would have be lynched...........
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Aquamarine
SonicDreamer makes some good points, though I still think it's a mistake to regard all these songs as autobiographical (though some clearly are). I think Jagger has more imagination than that--I don't think he's spent much time waiting for factory girls, for example. But I guess that's the point--"I think," "you think," none of us actually knows.
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Bastion
Surprised nobody's mentioned the "ten little..... sitting on the wall" lyric from Sweet Black Angel.
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diverseharmonics
incredibly offensive? ....thats a matter of individual opinion.....must have been a slow news (or work) day for you...dumbest thread ever....how about....Stones most incredibly banal lyrics ever,,,or...Stones worst chord progression ever...or Stones most muffed solo ever (lots of choices on this latest tour) er...hmmm..perhaps the Stones most insensitive lyric toward an eskimo....holy crap__ we seem to be OK with!!??...who is we??..you speak for everyone? jeez'.. please get a job and stop this inane revisionist hindsight hogwash from polluting free thinkers and music lovers....what next??....Eile on Main st. is a Communist plot because Jagger mentions Angela davis??..Jagger?Richards wrote many of rock n rolls' most cherished lyrics..and now you want to besmirch that legacy by foisting the 'offensive' label upen them"...only in 2014 America could this so-called politically correct baloney be actually taken seriously....you do know they are just a sort of rock and roll band ..right?...if you can't come up with a new, fresh, original topic for discussion then don't insult the band with mindless ignorant tripe like this.
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andrea66
I don't see any incredibly offensive lyrics, sorry.
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liddasQuote
treaclefingersQuote
liddasQuote
treaclefingers
I'm wondering whether we can have a reasonable discussion on something I've wondered about for some time? The ability for the stones to put out what most might consider offensive lyrics, that really don't seem to have a negative impact on them at all. Mick's lyrics seem Teflon.
How does Mick get away with it? If it's another mainstream artist, aren't they getting slammed?
The very very simple answer is that for the common people in most countries none of the Stones' lyrics are "incredibly offensive", or even "offensive".
Might be vulgar or gross at times, inappropriate in certain contexts too, but "offensive"?
C
So you you're saying 'vulgar, gross and inappropriate' might be fine, but offensive is 'out'.
Thanks for the ground rules liddas, it helps everyone out a lot. Next time I'll just come to you first.
You misunderstood me.
I just said that I don't think that there are any lyrics by the Stones that can be considered offensive.
Not by the majority of people who listened to their music at the time. Sex, drugs, swear words etc. were everywhere, at the movies, in literature. I mean, compared to Bukowski, CS Blues is a fairy tale for kids!
"Offensive", is something else. The etymology of "offensive" - the word derives from latin "offendere" - implies violence. Words meant to hurt. And I do not think that there is any violence in the Stones' lyrics.
The most controversial are, of course, those of Brown Sugar (Some Girls, please, no!) and Stray Cat.
Now, if you know the Stones' history, you know that it is impossible to put "Stones" and "racists" in the same sentence. So the lyrics to BS have to have a different meaning, and they have!
Stray Cat, when the song was written Jagger was 26. When I was in my early teens, many and many (female) friends of mine had affairs with what we (envying males) considered "old" but in were only in their twenties (and not even rock stars).
I don't want to say it was normal or right. Only, it happened all the time, and there was no violence in it.
All this to say that the Stones never had too much trouble with their songs, because their songs were only a mere representation of what surrounded them and many others. The "infamous" parties of the STP weren't exactly a Stones' exclusivity. I myself have a couple of stories to tell, but I am not Mick Jagger, so no one in the world could care less.
I hope this clarifies my thoughts.
C
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stonehearted
No one has mentioned the Keith song Little T&A: "Ah, the little bitch got soul...."
He's writing a song of affection for a woman, yet he calls her a "little bitch".
If anyone else tried that, it wouldn't go over as well. But the Stones do offensive with aplomb--largely because it's applied so casually, and they seem not to care what the reaction will be, offended or otherwise. Besides, it's expected of them. We cuss anywhere, man!
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stonehearted
No one has mentioned the Keith song Little T&A: "Ah, the little bitch got soul...."
He's writing a song of affection for a woman, yet he calls her a "little bitch".
If anyone else tried that, it wouldn't go over as well. But the Stones do offensive with aplomb--largely because it's applied so casually, and they seem not to care what the reaction will be, offended or otherwise. Besides, it's expected of them. We cuss anywhere, man!
Keith calls all women bitches, though, it seems to be entirely without overtones and synonymous with chick or whatever. Can't say it's his most endearing quality (and actually, I really don't like the lyrics of that song at all, not because they're offensive but, really, "she's my little rock and roll, tits 'n' ass with soul" is pretty pathetic!), but it's hard to break a 60-year habit, so . . .
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latebloomer
I don't offend that easily for one, partly because I think many times people say things without thinking or because it's just part of their vernacular, which is the case with Keith and his bitches. I've known a lot of men who talk really tough but are marshmallows underneath.
With the Stones, I think one of the reasons they've gotten away with it is because of the way a lot of their songs are structured. The vocals are just part of the song, they don't dominate it so many of the more cringe worthy lines are buried or just slip by. I usually don't pay much attention to the lyrics because the song as a whole is what I'm hearing. But looking at them typed out, I can see where some might find them offensive.
Interesting thread treacle, and Happy Father's Day to you. Have a cuppa on me!
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Bliss
Despite T&A being one of my favourites, Keith's referring to a woman as a 'little bitch' has always offended me. I don't care how affectionately it is said or sung, it is derogatory and conveys contempt.
And Keith only reinforced that in his book by using it again, along with calling gay people fags.
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stonehearted
I do recall a music mag interview, however, Q or MOJO or something like that, with the Stones on tour during the Bridges era where a reader angrily replied that Ronnie should have punched Keith out for talking to/about his [Ronnie's] wife like that. I don't have the particulars, unfortunately, but apparently Keith uses terms like that in conversation as well.