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harlem shuffle
Keith’s hangarounds cant stand nothing from Jagger.Maybee Keith should sing all Stonessongs?
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harlem shuffle
Keith’s hangarounds cant stand nothing from Jagger.Maybee Keith should sing all Stonessongs?
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
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DandelionPowderman
Mick got trapped in his borderline camp-singing style, just like Keith did with the open G-stuff. By «trapped» I mean that people expect to hear more of it. Those sounds became «them».
But Keith found a way out of it in the 70s. There are barely any open G-guitars from him on Some Girls, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You. He sort of went back to basic rockabilly, Berry, rock'n'roll.
That said, Mick has his moments of sincerity, even today.
Evening Gown perhaps?
Fool To Cry at the London Stadium (1st night) was a 'shivers down your spine' moment, I thought.
If he really means to express himself with that accent, yeah, perhaps
«People say I'm a drinkerrrrr»
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Swayed1967Quote
Silver Dagger
From Goats Head Soup through to Black And Blue the Stones were generally perceived to be on an artistic decline. Bowie and Glam Rock had arrived and stolen the Stones' thunder, prompting Jagger to try and compete by wearing those ridiculous costumes.
Yeah but it was Mick’s ridiculously affected vocals, rather than his clothes, which ensured that the music would increasingly descend into self-parody.
Silver Train would be more highly regarded if Keith had sang lead. He also should’ve pulled lead vocal duties on Dancing with Mr. D, Angie and Winter – those songs would benefit from Keith’s rawness and sincerity which by 1973 Mick had become incapable of delivering. Mick does OK on Heartbreaker, Star Star, Hide Your Love and 100 Years Ago (while Can You Hear the Music wouldn’t suit Keith anyways). Five songs sung by Keith, five by Mick. If they wanted to eclipse Exile that was the roadmap. Keith scoring a major hit with Angie and Mick’s increasing glam tendencies would’ve probably seen the band break up in 74. It would’ve been the right call to because both still had enough creative juices at that time to turn out some spectacular solo work. Regroup in the early 80s to release Tattoo You. Seems so obvious in retrospect.
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harlem shuffle
It feels like every time i open this site,some negative comments popping up against Jagger.No matter What song it is,always something negative about Jagger,from the same people everytime.Nothimg wrong about Keith,Keith is the Stones alone,he should have sing all songs.Play all guitars,drums,bass
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TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
DandelionPowderman
Mick got trapped in his borderline camp-singing style, just like Keith did with the open G-stuff. By «trapped» I mean that people expect to hear more of it. Those sounds became «them».
But Keith found a way out of it in the 70s. There are barely any open G-guitars from him on Some Girls, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You. He sort of went back to basic rockabilly, Berry, rock'n'roll.
That said, Mick has his moments of sincerity, even today.
Evening Gown perhaps?
Fool To Cry at the London Stadium (1st night) was a 'shivers down your spine' moment, I thought.
If he really means to express himself with that accent, yeah, perhaps
«People say I'm a drinkerrrrr»
I imagine he did, I mean ~90% of country singers don’t actually have accents the way they sing. It’s all part of the show, doesn’t mean they aren’t sincere.
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TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
DandelionPowderman
Mick got trapped in his borderline camp-singing style, just like Keith did with the open G-stuff. By «trapped» I mean that people expect to hear more of it. Those sounds became «them».
But Keith found a way out of it in the 70s. There are barely any open G-guitars from him on Some Girls, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You. He sort of went back to basic rockabilly, Berry, rock'n'roll.
That said, Mick has his moments of sincerity, even today.
Evening Gown perhaps?
Fool To Cry at the London Stadium (1st night) was a 'shivers down your spine' moment, I thought.
If he really means to express himself with that accent, yeah, perhaps
«People say I'm a drinkerrrrr»
I imagine he did, I mean ~90% of country singers don’t actually have accents the way they sing. It’s all part of the show, doesn’t mean they aren’t sincere.
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Swayed1967
Yeah but it was Mick’s ridiculously affected vocals, rather than his clothes, which ensured that the music would increasingly descend into self-parody.Quote
Swayed1967
Usually he’s too peacocky to come off sincere or convincing...
Fool To Cry is perhaps a better example of how Keith’s tasteful vocal style would’ve served the song better than Jagger’s cartoonish crooning.
Yup, yup and yup.
His vocals is one of the most distinctive things about the band, but what you say is so true, he is rarely all that convincing emotionally.
I LOVE No Expectations for example, but he doesn't nail the emotion of the song 100%. Keith would probably have sung it more authentically and brought out more emotional weight.
The affected vocals got more and more obvious and off putting, one of the things I dislike about the music from 70's onwards.
Bet you can't stand Faraway Eyes in that case.
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Swayed1967Quote
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Swayed1967
Yeah but it was Mick’s ridiculously affected vocals, rather than his clothes, which ensured that the music would increasingly descend into self-parody.Quote
Swayed1967
Usually he’s too peacocky to come off sincere or convincing...
Fool To Cry is perhaps a better example of how Keith’s tasteful vocal style would’ve served the song better than Jagger’s cartoonish crooning.
Yup, yup and yup.
His vocals is one of the most distinctive things about the band, but what you say is so true, he is rarely all that convincing emotionally.
I LOVE No Expectations for example, but he doesn't nail the emotion of the song 100%. Keith would probably have sung it more authentically and brought out more emotional weight.
The affected vocals got more and more obvious and off putting, one of the things I dislike about the music from 70's onwards.
Bet you can't stand Faraway Eyes in that case.
Personally, I like Faraway Eyes and Mick’s Bakersfield accent - and there’s no way Keith could ever sing the verses without completely rewriting the lyrics and melody - but it’s a goof song. Nothing wrong with that – it’s amusing and clever and the chorus is sweet but nobody is ever gonna categorize Faraway Eyes (or Fool To Cry etc.) as a classic. And that’s ok too but the point is that from 1973 onwards there is an obvious correlation between the decreasing number of ‘classic’ Stones songs and Mick’s increasing reliance on fake accents and vocal affectations. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t – I truly think Keith could’ve elevated Silver Train to at least near classic status.
However, I have to agree with Doxa and others when they say it’s impossible to imagine anyone but Mick singing certain songs but I think it’s important to understand that THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING! Essentially, Mick put his image before the song - he wrote a bunch of trivial songs in the seventies that seemed tailored to his jaded, decadent rock star image just because it amused him slightly…self-indulgent crap like Fool To Cry being a prime example. Don’t get me wrong, I like most of their 70s output anyways – as bad a song as I believe Fool To Cry to be, Mick Jagger, God-like and in tears, is always compelling. It’s just that if I’m honest with myself there is such a steep decline in the quality of music after Exile that, petty human that I am, I feel I have to blame someone. (I remain a huge Mick Jagger fan by the way…)
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Swayed1967
Personally, I like Faraway Eyes and Mick’s Bakersfield accent - and there’s no way Keith could ever sing the verses without completely rewriting the lyrics and melody - but it’s a goof song. Nothing wrong with that – it’s amusing and clever and the chorus is sweet but nobody is ever gonna categorize Faraway Eyes (or Fool To Cry etc.) as a classic. And that’s ok too but the point is that from 1973 onwards there is an obvious correlation between the decreasing number of ‘classic’ Stones songs and Mick’s increasing reliance on fake accents and vocal affectations. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t – I truly think Keith could’ve elevated Silver Train to at least near classic status.
However, I have to agree with Doxa and others when they say it’s impossible to imagine anyone but Mick singing certain songs but I think it’s important to understand that THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING! Essentially, Mick put his image before the song - he wrote a bunch of trivial songs in the seventies that seemed tailored to his jaded, decadent rock star image just because it amused him slightly…self-indulgent crap like Fool To Cry being a prime example. Don’t get me wrong, I like most of their 70s output anyways – as bad a song as I believe Fool To Cry to be, Mick Jagger, God-like and in tears, is always compelling. It’s just that if I’m honest with myself there is such a steep decline in the quality of music after Exile that, petty human that I am, I feel I have to blame someone. (I remain a huge Mick Jagger fan by the way…)
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GasLightStreet
They should've released Save Me aka Criss Cross Mind, instead; a supremely better song.
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DoxaQuote
Swayed1967
Personally, I like Faraway Eyes and Mick’s Bakersfield accent - and there’s no way Keith could ever sing the verses without completely rewriting the lyrics and melody - but it’s a goof song. Nothing wrong with that – it’s amusing and clever and the chorus is sweet but nobody is ever gonna categorize Faraway Eyes (or Fool To Cry etc.) as a classic. And that’s ok too but the point is that from 1973 onwards there is an obvious correlation between the decreasing number of ‘classic’ Stones songs and Mick’s increasing reliance on fake accents and vocal affectations. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t – I truly think Keith could’ve elevated Silver Train to at least near classic status.
However, I have to agree with Doxa and others when they say it’s impossible to imagine anyone but Mick singing certain songs but I think it’s important to understand that THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING! Essentially, Mick put his image before the song - he wrote a bunch of trivial songs in the seventies that seemed tailored to his jaded, decadent rock star image just because it amused him slightly…self-indulgent crap like Fool To Cry being a prime example. Don’t get me wrong, I like most of their 70s output anyways – as bad a song as I believe Fool To Cry to be, Mick Jagger, God-like and in tears, is always compelling. It’s just that if I’m honest with myself there is such a steep decline in the quality of music after Exile that, petty human that I am, I feel I have to blame someone. (I remain a huge Mick Jagger fan by the way…)
Great post. It is also one of my aims lately to grasp what the hell actually happened after the Big Four - the decline in quality and in relevance just occurred so quickly (it seems almost impossible to even grasp now from where they were coming from in terms of quality and relevance, from "Satisfaction" to EXILE). I like your diagnosis. I think Jagger needs to be blamed to a big degree for that - because he, and especially during the 70's, was just a huge of presentation of The Stones and of their music in public. So his actions were the ones most efficiently affecting to the way people see them. I like that description of putting image before song. Was that of some sort of ego trip (being in his shoes back then, the biggest rock star of the world, I wouldn't be surprised), or just a trick compansate the lack of real musical inspiration, hard to say. Probably both.
The cruel fact is that in 1973 The Rolling Stones, after being a leading force in pop (or even a face of it) for a decade, were suddenly old farts. That was a new situation for them, since a generation younger pop musicians were popping up and taking the whole genre into new directions. I think this is more like a law of nature: no matter what the Stones would have done then, it wouldn't have saved them to be seen as old farts, their fame being based on their legendary 60's reputation (that is, funnily, to say: they were too huge during the 60's to be normal mortals during the 70's). It was not just a new situation for them, but for anyone having such a status as them. And the bloody Beatles, their only real contemporary and rival, was gone. Why didn't they?
I think the video of "Silver Train" speaks volumes here. The track is as standard Stones, non-trendy stuff for the people who were digging things like David Bowie back then. It even looks like Jagger is awere of that, so he needs to do something extra to make it more 'exciting' and show that they still are somehow relevant and contemporary: so he puts all the energy into his glitter looks and performance. It is like Jagger alone is trying to keep the Stones 'relevant', but as we can see, it looks a bit artificial (but funny now). This trend continues very strongly in the following years, reflected also in the music, as you say. I think Jagger's performance in the 1975 American Tour is very revealing. Not that he over-dresses and over-acts by any sense of the word, the way he approaches especially the older material is almost like stating: 'hey, as you, I know this is old crap, but look, I don't care about a shit either'. Sometimes I get the feeling that since Jagger can't truely follow the musical trends any longer, and being awere of that, all the material he can use is his musically limited Stones canon and his own image/reputation. Since back then there was no drive for nostalgy yet, his means was more that of deconstruction. He almost didn't need acts like The Sex Pistols to do that...
Interesting issue also is had Jagger not taken the band into his shoulders and like forcing them to stay relevant by the use of his own persona and charisma, what had happened to the Stones? He probably went 'over the top' occasionally, taking almost a clown hat on, but was that the sacrifice to keep The Stones still in headlines and on lists?
Anyway, I think that the so called 'mid-70's decline', from GOATS HEAD SOUP to BLACK AND BLUE, is a fascinating topic to reflect. It is also interesting that from that time frame we could see about the only songs ever in which Jagger somehow deals with the issue of getting old or even about feelings reflecting maturity, no matter how 'affected' his deliveries were. Think of "Winter", "100 Years Ago", "Time Waits For No One", "Fool To Cry" etc. By the time of SOME GIRLS, all of that was gone. And there was no looking back from then on.
- Doxa
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DandelionPowderman
Mick got trapped in his borderline camp-singing style, just like Keith did with the open G-stuff. By «trapped» I mean that people expect to hear more of it. Those sounds became «them».
But Keith found a way out of it in the 70s. There are barely any open G-guitars from him on Some Girls, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You. He sort of went back to basic rockabilly, Berry, rock'n'roll.
That said, Mick has his moments of sincerity, even today.
Evening Gown perhaps?
Fool To Cry at the London Stadium (1st night) was a 'shivers down your spine' moment, I thought.
If he really means to express himself with that accent, yeah, perhaps
«People say I'm a drinkerrrrr»
I imagine he did, I mean ~90% of country singers don’t actually have accents the way they sing. It’s all part of the show, doesn’t mean they aren’t sincere.
I don't understand why some people feel the singer should sound "sincere". Sincerity can be so boring. Humorless. One-dimensional. Celine Dion may sound sincere, but I wouldn't listen to her if you paid me. With Jagger, I listen because he is so much fun to listen to and has a thousand different personae. He is incredibly multidimensional, and I don't give a rat's ass if he actually believes what he's singing as long as he takes me somewhere far, far away. And, most of the time, he does that, better than any other singer in the world.
Drew
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His Majesty
Keep in mind Sticky was essentially done within about 2 years 69-71 and Exile was done within 3 years 69 - 72.
Almost compilations of the mass of material they had been working on since spring 1969.
Bill noted a change in Keith circa 1970 saying he became more withdrawn. Moving away from England must have changed and affected band dynamics and relations too which would in turn affect their song writing.
Exile makes for a perfect book end and end to the story that began, album wise, with their UK debut. The covers are now originals, they have mastered the various blues and related forms and made them their own. Not only have they brought R&B to the masses, they have added their own distinctive and respected contribution to that music.
Job done, right?
What follows does feel like a band wondering what it is and where it is going. Keith's vision of how things should be is stretched beyond his comfort zone and Mick is in the early throws of the whole jet set thing and probably thirsty for more of the new and less of the old.
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What this has to do with Silver Train I have no idea.
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His Majesty
Keep in mind Sticky was essentially done within about 2 years 69-71 and Exile was done within 3 years 69 - 72.
Almost compilations of the mass of material they had been working on since spring 1969.
Bill noted a change in Keith circa 1970 saying he became more withdrawn. Moving away from England must have changed and affected band dynamics and relations too which would in turn affect their song writing.
Exile makes for a perfect book end and end to the story that began, album wise, with their UK debut. The covers are now originals, they have mastered the various blues and related forms and made them their own. Not only have they brought R&B to the masses, they have added their own distinctive and respected contribution to that music.
Job done, right?
What follows does feel like a band wondering what it is and where it is going. Keith's vision of how things should be is stretched beyond his comfort zone and Mick is in the early throws of the whole jet set thing and probably thirsty for more of the new and less of the old.
...
What this has to do with Silver Train I have no idea.