To me "Silver Train" is one of two songs, the other being "Hide Your Love", which together make GOATS HEAD SOUP sink somewhat from that album's aspiration to constitute something approaching a great album, in contrast to its now more semi-great status. Both songs I would have preferred to be single B-sides, as they emerge in their existing versions. I have wondered though if I could have liked "Silver Train" better in a different arrangement, for instance with another guitar sound. "Fatter", more noisy or harder, whatever. That is one reason why I gladly would have been to a concert with that song featuring in a setlist. Only one remaining possibility left for me in that case, Stockholm.

ROCKMAN

I just today was listening to a hot mix of this song but without harmonica. It's not mixed low , it is really not there. It confused me because Jagger's harp is usually in the bones of this type song. It would be almost impossible to mix it out. Surely he would not have added such a howling harp as overdub. But that is what he must've done. He plays guitar on basic track.

HOFFMAN -- Recording Index 1961-2016



ROCKMAN

It has some of the "moments" such as Mick Taylors guitar playing, the initial riff and the chorus melody in general. But overally speaking it lacks energy and the certain spark to make it a classic Stones tune. It's an album filler, not more. Probably it was used a second side opener (LP wise speaking), as there were no better choices and Star Star was consider as the album closer.

Always liked Johnny Winter's version better.

finaly the time , I discovered the Rolling Stones, by playing in the Juke Box (old time !) the B-Side of Angie :

Silver Train

1973 I was fourteen , LOVE IT ... OH Yeaaah !

It's like loads of Stones songs before & since .

Pretty ordinary...

... but because the Rolling Stones are playing it, it sounds fantastic !

Quote
Meise
It has some of the "moments" such as Mick Taylors guitar playing, the initial riff and the chorus melody in general. But overally speaking it lacks energy and the certain spark to make it a classic Stones tune. It's an album filler, not more. Probably it was used a second side opener (LP wise speaking), as there were no better choices and Star Star was consider as the album closer.

Always liked Johnny Winter's version better.

I was aware of Johnny's version first, and while I do prefer it over the Stones version, it's not even one of his better cover tunes.
It might be fair to say it's really not that great of a tune no matter who plays it.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The music is mighty fine but the lyrics just aren’t engaging. I mean how could they be? The song’s protagonist suffers a loss which he…shrugs off. Woman, money, loss, oh well, catch the next train.

If he ain’t got the blues what’s he doing in a Stones song? He’s just wasting our time with a half-assed tale that is further debased by Jagger’s affected voice (which began to make its ugly appearance around this time).

Filler

Thanks for popping up this thread!

SilverDagger's take on it is a joy to read. As seen here, it is not a very celebrated Stones song at all, to put it midly. But I have always found the track somehow irrestible.

Like pointed here, "Silver Train" has a lot EXILE vibe in it - almost like a left-over from that album. To me he whole GOATS HEAD SOUP sounds like a hangover album of EXILE - the party's over or about to be over, and the minds confused what the hell we do now. Try to get face the hangover, in order to get sober - or do get a another drink and try to continue partying, no matter how tired we all. "Silver Train" is an example of the latter (while most of the tracks, especially the ballads, sound like have done in the melancholic mindset of hangover).

It lacks for sure the freshness, edge and determination of similar EXILE rockers, but it has that goatsheadsoupian hazy, odd atmosphere in it. I like the catchy melody hook of its chorus, but I agree with Dandie that there probably is some sort of distinction between the verse and chorus, which prevents the song to run very naturally (a good insight; thats's probably something I have always in my mind, without realizing it, when trying to understand what doesn't work in the song or in its structure). The lyrics as well are as pointless as many EXILE ones, so nothing to complain there. Nothing wrong with musicianship either - it is as hot and deep as they were at the time. Always a pleasure just to listen a band playing like that. Taylor's work alone is something to celebrate, but still "Silver Train" is doomed to remain as an almost forgotten, deep album track or even a filler.

But to use my old slogan: they don't do fillers like this no more. Their art of making 'Stones-by-numbers' type of songs was just about to begin. Those were the times.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-22 12:51 by Doxa.

Never filler with a Mick Taylor solo like that.

It's beautiful simplicity like this that allowed Mick Taylor to become airborne, to really reach out and let go. Stop Breaking Down is another one that provided the launchpad for some stellar Taylor playing. Keep it simple and then watch that boy fly.

Quote
Silver Dagger
Never filler with a Mick Taylor solo like that.

It's beautiful simplicity like this that allowed Mick Taylor to become airborne, to really reach out and let go. Stop Breaking Down is another one that provided the launchpad for some stellar Taylor playing. Keep it simple and then watch that boy fly.

Can't really much argue with that one!

But as far ar "Stop Breaking Down" goes, I think it is absolutely hottest of the hottest by anyone involved there, not just Taylor...

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Silver Dagger
Never filler with a Mick Taylor solo like that.

It's beautiful simplicity like this that allowed Mick Taylor to become airborne, to really reach out and let go. Stop Breaking Down is another one that provided the launchpad for some stellar Taylor playing. Keep it simple and then watch that boy fly.

Can't really much argue with that one!

But as far ar "Stop Breaking Down" goes, I think it is absolutely hottest of the hottest by anyone involved there, not just Taylor...

- Doxa

I agree, and Stop Breaking Down is recorded without Keith

To me its actually one of the very first tracks where the Stones sound cliche. For 10 years just about everything they did was special, fresh and new, and this is the first track where they seem to repeat themselves. It's a bit parody, it sounds like another band wanted to write 'a Stones track in open G".

Mathijs

Mick Jagger plays guitar on Silver Train.

- Keith Richards, 1973

Quote
Mathijs
To me its actually one of the very first tracks where the Stones sound cliche. For 10 years just about everything they did was special, fresh and new, and this is the first track where they seem to repeat themselves. It's a bit parody, it sounds like another band wanted to write 'a Stones track in open G".

Mathijs

I agree with what you say here. A very first indication of repeating themselves, like knowing what their typical trademark sound is. In their following album this tendency was explicit. But in regards to GOATS HEAD SOUP, I think almost similar case is "Star Star", which sounds almost like a retro song in that context. It has so many Berryish cliches in it, a source from which they once were inspired to write their own original stuff, but now doing almost a parody of it and of themselves. But it could be that at the time they hadn't done such a pure Berry number for ages, so that probably sounded even fresh back then.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-22 13:09 by Doxa.

A main difference between the similar Exile-rockers and Silver Train is within the guitar interplay, imo.

On ST I can't really recall hearing Jagger's guitar after the intro. The lead guitar and the vocals totally take over in the soundscape. Keith's bass is audible a few times, though.

With a better recording, and a cleaner mix, it might have rocked more. However, there might be a reason for the muddy mix. Maybe it sounded better that way, after all.

The knife-sharp slide guitar and ballsy rhythm guitar of All Down The Line are sorely missed here. Although the soft-sounding guitar from Taylor sounds very nice, in a different way. But it's sort of never «challenged» or «bounced off» by a rocking rhythm guitar on ST.

Just my two cents, after 32 years of listening

Stones clichee is what it's all about. It's the GOOD Stones clichee.
I mean Jagger going "Silver bells are a-ringin', ding dong ding dong" - You can't beat it with a stick.

Good points, Dandie (although you should probably listen some years more to state things like that...)

Probably that kind of lacking interplay between the guitars might be something to do with what Keith has said about GOATS HEAD SOUP - that of them getting lazy. Probably that kind of 'shit, we need to nail this @#$%& down, no matter how much it takes' attitude and/or focus/determination might have lacked at the time.

Probably that of laziness has something to do with creativity as well. What in EXILE was still like if not totally a novel but still a fresh thing in process - they were just nailing the thing they had been inspired for some years, but they now were making a final and ultimate realization of the whole idea. Putting there everything they have and know, like a master thesis. In "Silver Train", and more stronger in some IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL tracks (a'la "If You Can't Rock Me"), there is not that kind of authentic and fresh inspiration any longer present, but more like re-making something they had already mastered. One cannot underestemate the effect of inspiration, or the lack of it, to the final product. Probably when there is no real inspiration, it easier to get lazy as well...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-22 13:39 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
Good points, Dandie (although you should probably listen some years more to state things like that...)

Probably that kind of lacking interplay between the guitars might be something to do with what Keith has said about GOATS HEAD SOUP - that of them getting lazy. Probably that kind of 'shit, we need to nail this @#$%& down, no matter how much it takes' attitude and/or focus/determination might have lacked at the time.

Probably that of laziness has something to do with creativity as well. What in EXILE was still like if not totally a novel but still a fresh thing in process - they were just nailing the thing they had been inspired for some years, but they now were making a final and ultimate realization of the whole idea. Putting there everything they have and know, like a master thesis. In "Silver Train", and more stronger in some IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL tracks (a'la "If You Can't Rock Me"), there is not that kind of authentic and fresh inspiration any longer present, but more like re-making something they had already mastered. One cannot underestemate the effect of inspiration, or the lack of it, to the final product. Probably when there is no real inspiration, it easier to get lazy as well...

- Doxa

Good points, although I think their inspiration changed as well – towards reggae-sounds (Luxury, I Got(t) A Let() (h)ter, Cherry Oh Baby), prog/latin (Time Waits For No One), Philly soul (Fool To Cry), funk (Fingerprint File, Hot Stuff).

But did more sources of inspiration appear because of the limited format of the open G-rockers or simply because they loved to have a go at what was hot at the time?

Hard to say.. But they mastered both, imo, although their signature-sounding rockers became a bit stale after Exile, with a few exceptions, of course.

Quote
Mathijs
To me its actually one of the very first tracks where the Stones sound cliche. For 10 years just about everything they did was special, fresh and new, and this is the first track where they seem to repeat themselves. It's a bit parody, it sounds like another band wanted to write 'a Stones track in open G".

Mathijs

I don't know if "cliche" is the right term to describe it. To me it feels like the song goes on too long, something that the Stones are guilty of more often. Dance Ltitle Sister, It's only Rock& Roll , Dancing with Mr D, Hot Stuff and some more. But most of them are hot as hell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-22 14:27 by TheflyingDutchman.

Quote
Mathijs
To me its actually one of the very first tracks where the Stones sound cliche. For 10 years just about everything they did was special, fresh and new, and this is the first track where they seem to repeat themselves. It's a bit parody, it sounds like another band wanted to write 'a Stones track in open G".

Mathijs

Goats Head Soup is the first album where they became a parody but the most obvious song on the album where they do that is Star Star, as Doxa points out.

Quote
Rockman

Are you saying this song should be titled Train Wreck?

Quote
Silver Dagger

Quote
Mathijs
To me its actually one of the very first tracks where the Stones sound cliche. For 10 years just about everything they did was special, fresh and new, and this is the first track where they seem to repeat themselves. It's a bit parody, it sounds like another band wanted to write 'a Stones track in open G".

Mathijs

Goats Head Soup is the first album where they became a parody but the most obvious song on the album where they do that is Star Star, as Doxa points out.

True, Mike (and Doxa). The difference, though, is that where Star Star is obviously a Berry-remake, Silver Train is kind of a remake of their own stuff.

That said, both are good songs standing on their own. But compared with what they're lifted off of, they sort of fall to the ground - or something

Quote
Mathijs
To me its actually one of the very first tracks where the Stones sound cliché. It's a bit parody, it sounds like another band wanted to write 'a Stones track in open G".

Mathijs

Yeah and imho same goes for "Criss Cross" aka "Save Me" which also stemmed from the early Nov./Dec. 72 GHS sessions.
These two ain't bad tracks per se but they lack some spark and indeed sound like "open G by the book" songs.

I wonder how received Goat's Head Soup would have been if they kept Tops and WOF. and ditched Star Star and Train Wreck.

It would had screwed up the configuration of Tattoo You. So all is well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-22 15:00 by Chris Fountain.

Quote
Chris Fountain
I wonder how received Goat's Head Soup would have been if they kept Tops and WOF. and ditched Star Star and Train Wreck.

It would had screwed up the configuration of Tattoo You. So all is well.

Too bad those songs weren't finished.

Same with Worried About You, Start Me Up and Slave. Those tracks would have made Black And Blue a classic, imo.

The Stones always had been cynical about a lot of subjects: politics, society, religion, authority, love, and - of course - women, but on GHS, it's the first time they were cynical about music (okay, maybe with the exception of Her Satanic, but that doesn't count). Star Star, Silver Train, and later Short & Curlies, It's Only Rock n Roll, etc..., you might like some of them or not, but their message is: "oh well, it's just music, it doesn't mean anything, good or bad, who cares?".

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Chris Fountain
I wonder how received Goat's Head Soup would have been if they kept Tops and WOF. and ditched Star Star and Train Wreck.

It would had screwed up the configuration of Tattoo You. So all is well.

Too bad those songs weren't finished.

Same with Worried About You, Start Me Up and Slave. Those tracks would have made Black And Blue a classic, imo.

Great points! Destiny played a role in this scenario. Yes the 1975 tour was a national success, it seems like the 1978 tour sorta went under the radar although many in this forum love and uphold that tour. At that time, the stones were slipping just a bit.

And then Start me Up came on the radio, the release of Tattoo You, new era of Stadium shows, cable TV etc.. it was a beginning of a new world. I'm glad they didn't for get about ER album on that tour. Still Life may be the most underappreciated album in this forum.

In other words it was the right time for WAY and SMU, etc... debuted - all worked out I think