Hear, hear! Well said Sonic and Eric!

I said I hate comparing great guitarists - but Jimmy Page as songwriter better than Hendrix? Pleeeze! And as for the Led Zep innovations, the Stones were integrating Moroccan/Arabic influences long before "Unledded"...

Yo John- So was Zeppelin... from the begining Moroccan/Arabic has been apart of Zeps music. Songwriting credit for the band was mostly Robert ( who's new cd kicks ass ). Jimmy produced Zeps music. Zeppelins influences include: Delta blues,English folklore,Sex, The Hobbit, Arabic/Moroccan ( Physical Graffiti and before ), Country.... Now as I see it I believe the Stones influences are mostly the same..... Arabic/Moroccan, Occult, Delta Blues, English Folklore and Sex... again... its just different in the delivery.... Hendrix was a great songwriter but not as good as Robert Plant or Mick and Keith.... Hendrix could never come up with either the Lyrics OR the Production to a song(s) like The Rain Song, Kashmir, Since Ive been Loving you, Tangerine (all of Zep 3 for that matter ), Ten years gone, SFTD, 2000 LYA,Stray cat blues, Paint it black.. I could go on..... What gripes me with your post is that you refer to "unledded" as a start of Morroccan/Arabic influence for Zep when in realtiy...thats mostly what they were about all along.........put you headphones on.. spark up a doobie and start from the beginning ZEP 1 through thier last....HEAR it....don't just listen.... you will wake up much wiser... than anything Hendrix gave you....then when you wake up and want to groove Start with AFTERMATH ( no offense to anyone... but my Stones beginning) and go to B2B then come back to the board a more EDUCATED and DETAILED Stones and Music fan.... UNLEDDED as the start... cut me a brake!

Hendrix is in a league of his own. Let's get that straight.

I can't believe that not one mention of Johnny Winter has come up in this entire thread. He's #2 in my book...Taylor, Page, Beck, Clapton, Bloomfield and maybe another 1 or 2 behind those two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-01 20:27 by T&A.

Please educate me on whY i should listen to B2B - I get bored real fast with
anything after 1981.Even though there are sparkles of groove here and there
and a few good songs on all the records.These records are not great IMO.

You can find lots of guitar players that are better than / or have the same quality as Mick T.

This thing about making him like a god is out of proportion....

I think that B2B and Voodoo Lounge were great CD's the band was exploring and got some great vibes in.. Stop looking back and let this band come into something new. B2B has great ballads as well. "already over me" is great drumming from charlie and "Has anyone seen my baby" great bass and great groove... if this new record comes close to those 2 CD's then I will be happy...Sorry, hell even Emotional Rescuse was an attempt at becoming relevant again and you can do that going backwards...I give them credit for NOT giving into the masses and try to push themselves in different directions....Exile was great and is one of the best ever... but for me I want something new... SHOW ME WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW AFTER 40 YEARS, You already proved you can do an EXILE.... move on.... Give it to me baby! I can't wait.... I hope its raw, and really funky..sexy as hell in an updated kind of way but still gives you that flavor of STONES....if not then just do shows of warhorses and call it a day! THATS BORING TO ME!PEACE OUT

I know I am gonna catch hell..... but here goes. I would love to see a club show from nothing going back further that Tatoo You. The reason is, I think it would be extremely interesting from all aspect of a show. NO BS, JJF,SFTD, SFM, MM,SATIS,GS, and the few bones they put in. I think it would be a hot show.I am not saying id rather see this kind of a show more... just something new from a different angle with all the same pieces.....

Yes why can,t they write rock songs anymore its all ballads that are the good
songs.Keith will retire and do a lounge crooning act one day.

Most of the classic bands in the 70's had a great lead player and thats why
taylor's presence was so important to the continued success of the stones
as they went into the 70's. His guitar changed the SOUND of the stones and
thats why Taylor's work is timless.They went from a pop sound to more of a
blusier raw sound and yes it was the glimmers exploring new music and sounds
but Taylor made some studio songs sould killer live.

Stray Cat - listen to ya yas
SFTD
LIV
YCAGWYW
GS
ETC ETc

Hey, I like Zep, have everything official they put out, saw them live, have lots of post Zep stuff etc, but I said what I think in an earlier post on this thread--Jimmy's a great producer blah blah. Hendrix, "Angel," The Wind Cries Mary," "Machine Gun," "You Got Me Floatin'," "Room Full Of Mirrors," etc - to me JH's songs generally cut deeper. IMO Plant/Page reached a peak as writers with Presence, perhaps their darkest album.

AMEN G - No Doubt. But lets see what these 60 year old rock gods can give us now. No, doubt in my mind that they could go back and remake that sound or come close... but is that what you really really really want from them now? I want these guys to get off thier tired lazy ass's and stop with the greatest hits already and make me DANCE but not the BUMP or the HUSSLE... TODAY'S DANCE in the way that only the muscle of the STONES can do. They can do it... they ARE that talented...its a matter of how much they really want to work at it! TAYLOR WAS AMAZING BRO....AND HIS SONGS ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE SHOWS TODAY... I FIND THAT SAD... BUT DIDNT YOU LOVE: OUT OF CONTROL,LOVE IS STRONG,THRU AND THRU,FLIP THE SWITCH,UNDERCOVER,ROCK IN A HARD PLACE..LIVE!!!

Well I screamed and sang along w/ Thru & Thru, and Out Of Control was a highlight of both the B2B & No Security tours (to name just 2)...The Stones were clearly stretching themselves on B2B and some of it is marvelous...

yes some of those songs are the stones stretching out in new ways .
A rock and a Hard Place is the third coming of Soul Souvier and Wicked as
it seems or vice a versa.

don,t get fooled by keith he recyles old riffs and uses them in different

tunings and has similiar slides and walkdown patterns.but i guess its about
the sounds they want now in the studio.

OpenG, do you actually like the Stones or just come on here to either blast everything that isn't MT or talk about vibrato for the 2834648945959 time?

OpenG the Stones have written good songs post-81 that are rock songs and not just ballads. Listen to Flip the Switch, Saint of Me, Out of Control, Highwire, She Was Hot, Had It With You, Brand New Car... I can go on. And I don't think Taylor is the reason why their sound was evolving from a more pop sound to a dirty blues sound. This was beginning to happen in 1968.. BEFORE Taylor joined the band. While not their best performance the R&R Circus showed that the band's sound was clearly changing.

Keith and Mick were the reason..

yeah I am a stones fanatic like you and I am not blasting the stones.
FACT - Keith and Jagger write ballads now for the most part
FACT - Keith recyles old ideas and riffs when his attenas are not UP.

So where Am I not being fair.

Hopefully, Keith will do a rocker or two with his CD spots.

OpenG,
How are most of the songs they write now ballads. Look at their last album or any of their past albums. There is always a good mix. Keith, however has done all ballads lately. Maybe that is what you meant to say.

Agree there is only one Keith. Agree that Taylor was a monument of melody, fluidity and tonal heaven. ===> Keith + Taylor = Stones at their best musically
and unsurpassed .

wow you like my pharse tonal heaven

VERY impressive G!!!

Stones had changed from "pop" songs to blusier songs way before Mick T. entered the band....

Taylor's song production is much poorer than the Stones, during the 30 years after the Stones he has made less than a handfull of records, so who understands this huge respect of Mick T......

Other musicians have been more produtive / quality production and they are not mentioned here - only Mick T.

Other guitarist play very well - but Mick T. beats them all???????

With some practice quite many of Mick T. songs can be played....

Like many fine musicians, including for the most part the Beatles, Mick T shone brightest in a great band. Yes, some of his post RS work is good (like the Dylan "Real Live" album, or the MT/Carla Olsson "Too Hot For Snakes") but he never found a group of sympathetic equals, especially problematic as he his not a prolific songwriter. And, the Stones only really veered dramatically away from blues (broadly speaking, meaning black or american music forms) during the '66 - 67 period that produced Buttons, Flowers, & Satanic - & were back in touch with their roots on Banquet

Because all the other british guitar gods are rich and famous and came no where
close to MT's body of work with the stones during that period.

Taylor's studio solos and live solos stand up against all the rest during that
period.Taylor can still play live today at a very high level and his playing
is still fresh and vibrant(Did not use Vibrato LOL).

Jeff Beck - a great player technically but his tone IMO is terrible.
Eric Clapton - Boring and never took chances.Lay Down Sally ???

David Gilmour and Peter Green were in Taylor's league when it came to tone,
fluidity and melodic passages.

Is Peter Green any good anymore? I haven't heard anything for ages. Peter Green Fleetwood Mac album is on my all time favourite list....

No last I heard he is recovering from a nervous breakdown he had years ago
and he lost some of his guitar ability.He still tours from time to time with
mayall and others.

OpenG. Have you got the first Fleetwood Mac album? Would have thought it was up your street....

yes a great record and I agree with you ablett.

I have a live boot from 1970 from boston and peter green is amazing.

Is that Live at the Boston Tea Party cause I'm sure I've got something like that somewhere.
Did MT and Peter Green ever team up...live, Bluesbreakers??

yes live at the boston tea party its great.

I would guess no on MT and Peter Green