he was a great alone warrior who playin with soul and good songwriter!anybodoy can tell something wong with my opinion?

he was muchmore than taylor,wood,richards wasnt he?


WOOD+RÝCHARDS=PAGE

WHAT DO YOU THÝNK?

I think Jimmy Page is just simply the best guitarist ever .The body of work he has done with Zeppelin alone is legendary. However, Jimmy is noted to be very seclusive and at times in poor health. He would always be a great guest for a Stone disc but I think he would hamper them if he was a member. The Stones when they are on , are a strict working band...touring non stop and never canceling out. The show must go on and Mick would not stand for any exception...but as far as playing in the studio, no one comes close!

Jimmy Page was always my second all-time favorite when I was growing up...second only to Jimi Hendrix. His songwriting and producing skills will never be matched, the whole history of Led Zeppelin should be credited to Jimmy Page.

Just listen to Achilles Last Stand, The Song Remains The Same, Stairway, and many, many more. The whole Physical Graffitti album is a masterpiece and is enough to keep him at the top of the heap forever. It's all mind-boggling...he was the ultimate superhero guitar slinger. And onstage, his stage presence was the best, he looked like he was possessed.

The Stones are a different type of beast, and the sum of their parts are more than any single individual of the band.

Seclusive and Reclusive to some extent.
I think more than suffering from glandular fever, back problems and assorted ailments, Page was suffering from a fascination with Black Magic, which did get very unhealthy indeed...

I beg to differ with your Jimmy Page opinions in a Huge way. Page is /was an excellant rock guitarist in the context of Led Zeppelin only. He pretty much only has one style ("Led Zeppelin") and two "sounds" (electric and acoustic). He could never really fit into any other bands "sound" or "style" because he is such a one trick pony. If you like him, great, if you don't that's OK too. I happen to think "Whole Lotta Love" was/is the best thing he'll ever do. By the way, It is my understanding that he has been an addict for the last several years and that probably explains a lot right there.

As far as "greatest living rock guitarist" I typically vote for Jeff Beck. To my ears he is head and shoulders above everyone else. All things considered he has the best melody, technique, sound, special effects, imagination and composition and can fit in with a lot of different bands/performers when he has to (i.e Bowie, Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger etc.) including jazz, blues, psychedelia and rock n roll.

Duane in Houston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I beg to differ with your Jimmy Page opinions in a
> Huge way. Page is /was an excellant rock guitarist
> in the context of Led Zeppelin only. He pretty
> much only has one style ("Led Zeppelin") and two
> "sounds" (electric and acoustic). He could never
> really fit into any other bands "sound" or "style"
> because he is such a one trick pony.

I would advise you to read a book on English pop culture....It's estimated that as a session guitarist Page plays on about 60% of all English releases from 1964 until 1968, playing guitar on albums by the Kinks, the Stones, The Who, Lulu, Them, Chris Farlowe, Nico, John Mayall and about 1000 more. A one trick pony?

Page must be the second greatest guitarist, although I never liked his soloing. Way to sketchy and fragmented, and sometimes even sloppy.

Mathijs

Agree with with Mathijs about Pagey's solos being a bit sloppy and with too-many-bum-notes, but as far as his ability with the acoustic, to me he is the number one without any kind of doubt: blues, folk, thousands of different tunings... And comparing him with Hendrix, well, I cannot say who is better (both are equally great) but one could only dream that Hendrix had the imagination and composition skills Page had.

Abouyt the question about who is better, Taylor or Page, I like Taylor's soloing better because of his melodic lines, but I find Page a better guitarist overall when you consider rhythm work, acoustic work and soloing as a whole.

[There'll be no wedding today...]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-31 11:20 by bruno.

OK, Mathijs, you don't have to wait any longer for the question:
Who's number one?

Hendrix is No1 not because he was first but because he was the best and most soulful.

I'll remember Mathijs earlier has written he likes Hendrix' phrasing but is not impressed of his way playing solos. Right?

when page played fast he got sloppy and lost control.The big difference with
taylor is that when he played fast he was fluid and never lost control and
melodic wonderment and tonal heaven.

page was grounbreaking like hendrix and his guitar layering in the studio
was briliant.Listen to all the guitar parts on ramble on

Allright mathijs! Agree with you once again. My main problem with JP has always been his soloing. It's that schizoid noodling that annoys. There is an old record by Joe Cocker. He's got the creme of session guys from the 60's playing: Steve Winwood, Chris Stainton, Jim Keltner, Duane and JP. They do a version of "Just like a Woman" (I think) beautiful ballad. JP solos on it and it is like a caterpillar dumping all over the song. All this busy crazy flurries on top. Makes no sense.
JP was great IMO writing these crunch riffs like all over Physical grafiti. He was also a GREAT producer. Led Zep was very much his sound. As excellent as JP Jones was. I was actually just talking baout LZ yesterday and we were saying how underrated Plant is/was. If you look at the post Zep output it is Plant who rules. Pagey has struggled to say the least. I mean...that band with the singer of Free??? And one of the alltime worst moments in music I have seen was on SNL with Puff Daddy massacring Kashmir with some bullrap over it. But Plant's new album rules.

I love some of the riffs he came up with, Whole Lotta love, The Ocean , Communication breakdown to name a few but I think he completly ruined some songs by playing way too long of solos especially live, to me he sometimes made a great song boring, I think he was too self indulgent with his playing allot of the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-31 15:29 by Ket.

Jimmy Page was a much better Producer than a guitar player, which is saying a lot. His guitar work speaks for itself, a distinctive sound which only a very few ever find out of the ten billion guitar plaers on earth. Excellent, unique, player.

His real strength was as a Producer. One of the best Rock producers ever. Simple idea's incorporated into songs but they sometimes made the song,

As far as Page being better than other people, that is silly and I won't get into that.

Milo, NYC
Back to zero (how I hate that song)

I agree 99% with the above. Led Zep's production alone is there to prove that there have been very few guitarists who can claim to be more versatile than Page. It's all there: HM (communication bd must be one of the first HM hits ever!), blues chicago style, acoustic blues, funk, r'n'r, reggea, fusion etc etc., and all superbly mastered by JP. If you add that he even wrote most of that stuff ...

Now, re JP solos, yes: most of em are "slightly" over the top. As all of his music was. But what the hell, Page's solos are in the history of rock and roll. Fullstop.
Was blasting since I've been loving you at maximum volume the other day before going to play. Once in the room, I just could not help turning that marshall at 10 and let the LP do her job (unfortunately no JP in the room)!!!

C

Please let me chime in a layman/non musician opinion on this, esp. after having fairly recently discovered both the Zep DVD and the double CD "How the West Was Won".
First off, as a music consumer, I also prefer a great "producer" to a fantastic guitar slinger.
But to me, JP was both. And if he is sloppy at times - which he was - it's because in those instances he takes incredible chances (a bit like Frank Zappa in his best and most adventurous years). He cannot be compared to Hendrix or perhaps not even Beck, because he is interested in exploring too many different styles, therefore naturally with some imperfections and "faux pas". ...And how exploratory can you get!!... To me, anyone who tried that and got so passionately involved in the process is just wonderful and must be commended as a great music creator.
But even just as a loud, typical blues player... There is this long "original" blues song on HtWWW I can't remember the title of... Good God!!!

I'm w/ Milo: Page's greatest talent (& of course he's a great guitarist) is as producer, which is one reason LZ took off & flew where Jeff Beck Group, which really was the Zep blueprint, sagged & splintered after 2 albums. So much of Zep is appropriated from other artists - to a degree unprecedented in any other major band - but Page knew how to integrate, polish, or package it i.e. the opening minute of Stairway to Heaven (cf Spirit's 'Taurus' - an out & out steal) thru Whole Lotta Love (check the Small Faces' '66 rampage through 'You Need Loving' & esp. Marriott's vocal break "Way dowwwwn insiiiide....Youuu Neeed Lovvve!" Blam! Blam!) and of course the Beck Group's ("Truth") flash & heavy/acoustic contrasts...The entire debut LZ is based on "Truth" virtually cut for cut (Play Shapes of Things, then Good Times Bad Times, end with Aint Superstitious/How Many More Times...) Of course there are all the blues lyrics copped on 1 & 2 & even later, however despite a certain air of cynicism Zep evolved thru the superb 'Presence' with each record having its own distinct sound (from the creamy, big 'room' sound of LZ 1 thru the loose folk/blues of LZ III & the funkified heaviosity of Physical G.)...There are many bands & guitarists who move me more, but Zep/Page earned their place in the r & r hall of fame, baggage & all, with Page's ability to create power & mystery on record.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-31 17:02 by john r.

PS despite all his imagination and chops, Jeff Beck couldn't keep a (great: Rod Stewart, Ron Wood, Mick Waller, Nicky Hopkins) band together - everyone was fired/re-hired/quit multiple times) band together, nor could he 'lead', and he wrote probably less than Wood/Stewart/Hopkins. Same in the Yardbirds, the other guys would create the songs ("Roger the Engineer") & Beck would come in & do his brilliant 'thing' on the tracks. Plus Led Zep had 70s oriented, long term career management from Peter Grant...This whole idea of the # 1 guitarist is misguided, too many apples, oranges, steakes, ice cream, etc: compare Keith Levene, Robert Quine, Keith R, Hendrix, James Burton, Les Paul, Bo Diddley, John Lee Hooker, Curtis Mayfield, Tom Verlaine, etc...?

Keith Richards: "There are thousands of Jeff Becks and Jimmy Pages and Mick Taylors, but there is only one Keith Richards...."

Keith Richards: "There are thousands of Jeff Becks and Jimmy Pages and Mick Taylors, but there is only one Keith Richards...." yeah baby!!

Who decided that Hendrix are the greatest guitarist in the history? There are thousands of jazz-guitarists that are on the same level or better. Ìt`s stupid to use time to find out who is best. Hendrix, Page, Slash were all great to make solo`s to the melodies. Keith invented riffs and noone, I repeat noone could make greater riffs than Keith.Well, I am subjectiv.

"Jimmy Page / was quite a rage / I cannot see the reason why...."
-Mick Jagger

Jimmy Page is Jimmy Page, Keith Richards is Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood is Ronnie Wood etc. etc

"There are thousands of Jeff Becks and Jimmy Pages and Mick Taylors, but there is only one Keith Richards...." Did Keith really say that? But whoever said it, even if it was Keith, I have to strongly disagree. Each of the guitarists mentioned here is a unique, one of a kind talent. Often imitated perhaps, but never duplicated!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-06-01 07:20 by ChrisM.

Page was/is a total guitar player. The songwriting, the acoustic playing, the one string-riffing, the "speaker to speaker" approach with only one guitar, the untraditional world music things etc. are examples that can't be forgotten.

Agree with Mathijs about the lack of fluidity in his solos. I think he's better than Hendrix because of the songwriting abilities. Hendrix made some great songs, but not even near the number that Page came up with in the late 60s/early 70s.

Ahhhhhhh, I could not resist firing my own salvo is this, taking a big picture stance, pointless debate! Ha ha ha ha.

I own 92% of all Rolling Stones official releases and all of Led Zeppelin's official releases, besides those produced by a vast array of other rock/pop/blues music artists, so I would consider myself a music fan, rather than a Stones fan in essence.

I have seen the Stones live several times in different kinds of venues but never had the opportunity to see Zep live, alas. I did see Page and Plant live, however, but that is not quite the same thing.

"Duane in Houston's" remark that Jimmy Page has only "two sounds" (electric and acoustic)" is a bit like saying every car only has four wheels. Unless my knowledge is quite unknowingly deficient, I think there are only two kinds of conventional guitar - electric and acoustic, so that is a bit of a non-argument.

As "54 Les Paul Junior" says each musician has their own style/approach/feel and when you get into the upper echelons of the guitar stratosphere, whose denizens are the likes of Richards, Page, Hendrix, etc. their ability as guitar players is not really in question. Thereafter it is a question of the listener's preference as to what kind of sound and performance he or she enjoys or appreciates from a guitarist or musician.

Page's contribution to music in the 70s is certainly not in question but due to various factors personal and career factors since then he has not been in the public limelight, as a guitarist, consistently enough to truly say how good his form still is. Thus is it a little unfair to compare him with the modern day Richards, if one must do at all. I do, regrettably, think creatively Page's best work is, unfortunately, behind him.

Although I adore the Stones, on the strength of the LICKS tour at least, I do think they are, to a marked extent, rather formulaic as a group entity in a live setting and in their song writing (from the mid-80s onwards). Live, they are very dynamically entertaining (they put on a fantastic "show") and can play their material with incomparable adeptness but there is little innovation or risk taking musically (to my ears), even in their club shows. This is the only thing I could say against them and Richards is obviously a cog in that particular predictable engine.

In Page and Zeppelin's case, whilst watching the recent live DVD and listening to bootlegs, there were certainly never consistent technically or in the physical quality of their live performances. This was wholly compensated for by the passion and out-on-a-limb, experimental risk-taking that appears to be the hallmark of their live work. I have always been a vociferous advocate of spontaneity in a concert environment and Zeppelin were masters at this.
Sure, they didn't always pull it off but rather that than the "journeyman" approach of the Stones on their LICKS tour. The innate attribute of true creativity is inspirational spontaneity and you can't provide this if you are always working within the finite parameters of "designed" stage productions, or not it seems in the current times.

I will be attending the latest Stones tour, not withstanding my remarks, as a formulaic Stones is a damn sight better proposition than the majority of the other artists pushing their wares on the live circuit at present.

No doubt many of my remarks on the state of the Stones nowadays will be a red rag to a plethora of Stones-fans-bulls but I am a realist who does deeply appreciate their majestic and superlative musical legacy, not just a blinkered Zeppelin flag-waver.

Better, Worse, Same....apples & oranges....

just different.....

Page had the full package....writing, producing, playing....

I agree w/ Mathjis on his analysis....I think the problem w/ a lot of Page's soloing was the fact that he was SUCH a drunk....so was Keef, but he was never the "fastest" or "best" soloist around....IMHO it was/is his riff-ability that defined him....

The Keef-Mick relationship makes it VERY hard to evaluate Keef all on his own...I would argue that he'd likely be dead, broke, or living under a bridge if it wasn't for Mick....

Hendrix revolutionized the guitar as an instrument....he did much more for guitar than just w/ his playing....I doubt Page would've been trying a lot of the "experimental" aspects of his playing if Hendrix hadn't "opened the door"...

long live Slash....speaking of drunks.

Sonic-

I think that was well said. Both Keith and Jimmy are masters at thier craft/styles. Both Have made HUGE ( lack of better word ) contribution to the music industry and its fans. This Zeppelin/Stones or Jimmy/Keith comparison has alwasy brought about discontent. IMHO even more than the Beatles comparisons. But this about guitarists. Both play the BLUES both use influences from Black Blues guitar players (they are the real deal ). The difference is only in the delivery one has a more traditional flavor ( Keith ) and one has a harder edge ( Jimmy ), neither is better. Like Sonic I like the spontaneity of live shows and I have been to 40 Stones shows and like Zeppelin they too have left me in a lurch with bad playing at times, but during those time when they were off it WAS due to the spontaneity and THAT made up for it and interesting. The Stones have lost this as well and with all the back up people they now use its very hard for a 4 piece band to work around that and be spontaneious on stage. I believe that this new record will be very good but certainly not to the extent of the past. BUT who cares.. they live on and they are thier for us. What a great thing it would be if Zep could have continued in some form and we still would have them around. Keith screws up the into to brown sugar about 50% of the time, alot of times he is off key and yes sloppy. This takes nothing away from what he has achieved in his life time and he has earned his mistakes and the right to have them... just like Jimmy does. The only thing I dont agree with in some of the posts on this subject is to the two- sounds of Jimmy... that is simply bull, He plays everything from 12 string to banjo to mandolin and he even has done violin.. the man can play many many forms of music in many many many different timings 4/4, 9/8/ 7/8 time and he was a master at syncopation. Keith is great with the Strat, gibson hallow body ( chuck berry ) and his open tunings are great as well.I love the Stones and Zep they are my fav. Both have struggled during live shows trying to push the limits, but those day's of that kind of rock show are gone.... but hey wasn't it great to be alive when we had the 2 best bands doing what they do best.... pushing the limits. For this Keith and Jimmy will always be the ones to top, they rest are followers and always will be. Thank you.

Great post, eric! You said it.