I think you’ve nailed it, Straycat.

Should I get the tongue tattooed on my forehead.

Nate ><

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Nate
Should I get the tongue tattooed on my forehead.

Nate ><

Only if your current tattoo is not conveniently located for scanning.

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straycatuk
So they want you to submit your contact details so a third party can bombard you with tailored advertising ?

Presales seem to be a way to generate panic and offload the worst of the expensive tickets first.

If you don't get lucky on sale day..........wait. They always drop the good seats nearer to the show time . Verified Fan is A LOAD OF BS.

sc uk

That's exactly what it's all about.

All the best seats are scalped out by the artists themselves now anyway.

The whole concert thing is devolving so quickly I am getting pretty turned off by it.

Pretty soon you won't even be able to go to a concert without showing the tickets through the app on your phone.

They are so arrogant now, it makes me pine for the days like 2010-ish when they were begging me to buy $20 tickets.

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Dan
...Pretty soon you won't even be able to go to a concert without showing the tickets through the app on your phone...

I still save my tickets / stubs when I can and really miss the printed tickets like the ones in 2007 with the hologram, and others. Electronic tickets just suck...

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odean73
This is terrible.

Talk about big brother 1984!!

I've seen the Stones 50 times and have co-run a Stones fan page now for almost two decades. But for some unexplained reason I've been banned from their facebook page now for 5 years. I cant even 'like' it and I've no way of contacting anyone to get the problem addressed. I dont use twitter either.

So by this yardstick, I'd be potentially barred from using this system as apparently I'm not a real fan. .

The people who dont use social media at all would be even more screwed.

I expect we can also look forward to people from the scalping agencies suddenly becoming professional "real fans" with lots of Facebook and Twitter activity.

I think this is a horrible idea, and will certainly disadvantage older and less media-savvy concertgoers.

PS: Gazza, that's awful.

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straycatuk
So they want you to submit your contact details so a third party can bombard you with tailored advertising ?

Presales seem to be a way to generate panic and offload the worst of the expensive tickets first.

If you don't get lucky on sale day..........wait. They always drop the good seats nearer to the show time . Verified Fan is A LOAD OF BS.

sc uk

No truer thing said !!

We;; I'm f**ked, I don't do social media. No Twitter, no Facebook ... and quite happy without either thanks very much !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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Gazza

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odean73
This is terrible.

Talk about big brother 1984!!

I've seen the Stones 50 times and have co-run a Stones fan page now for almost two decades. But for some unexplained reason I've been banned from their facebook page now for 5 years. I cant even 'like' it and I've no way of contacting anyone to get the problem addressed. I dont use twitter either.

So by this yardstick, I'd be potentially barred from using this system as apparently I'm not a real fan. .

The people who dont use social media at all would be even more screwed.

Hi Gazza , Greetings and salutations .

Article in today’s London Times about misery caused by Viagogo in Sheeran ticket sales:

[www.thetimes.co.uk]

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SomeTorontoGirl
Article in today’s London Times about misery caused by Viagogo in Sheeran ticket sales:

[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Disgusting behaviour from a company that is nothing but a bunch of legalised thieves.How wonderful of Viagogo to say to the buyer that the tickets you purchased from us are not valid and we won't issue you a refund but if you want your money back then we are happy to sell them to some other unsuspecting mug on your behalf subject to our usual fees.

How on earth is this company still allowed to trade.
I eagerly await the day when the people who run this outfit are met with some extremely serious pain.

Nate

That was a sad story...one more ! The problem is that it's hard to check what the actual requirements are once the tickets have sold on the official sites. Case in point the Arctic Monkeys' Paris tickets sold out in seconds (saw it with my own eyes) and now are being peddled on the usual sites so what good will it do to deny entry to unsuspecting fans at the show ? What's worse is that when people looking for tickets are reminded of this policy on the FB page of the show they seem to think that it won't be enforced...

Actually does anyone remember what happened in Barcelona last year for the Stones where the same rule was announced when the tickets were sold, was it enforced ? So far on the NF2018 tour only Marseille has that policy announced see [iorr.org] - why can't the policy be consistent so that the touts can be snuffed out at some point ?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
That was a sad story...one more ! The problem is that it's hard to check what the actual requirements are once the tickets have sold on the official sites. Case in point the Arctic Monkeys' Paris tickets sold out in seconds (saw it with my own eyes) and now are being peddled on the usual sites so what good will it do to deny entry to unsuspecting fans at the show ? What's worse is that when people looking for tickets are reminded of this policy on the FB page of the show they seem to think that it won't be enforced...

Actually does anyone remember what happened in Barcelona last year for the Stones where the same rule was announced when the tickets were sold, was it enforced ? So far on the NF2018 tour only Marseille has that policy announced see [iorr.org] - why can't the policy be consistent so that the touts can be snuffed out at some point ?

The burden of selling tickets falls on the promoter and if you have a $10 million bill to pay and 75,000 tickets to sell, are you going to really too hard about who is buying the tickets?

I am almost certain that lady's tickets will be valid unless she contacts the Sheeran organization and they personally cancel them.

Yeah, besides these "id matching" rules don't seem to change anything for high demand concerts :
- they sell out in seconds leaving the average fan out in the cold
- tickets get resold for tons of money

Not sure what it would take to change this...
- actually preventing people from getting in like the Foo's or Radiohead did, hard on the unsuspecting buyer of course...

However if the promoters of high demand concerts that are sure to sellout don't do something about it, who is ?

Anyone know for the Barcelone situation last year ? Guess I'll try wading through the thread ;-)

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
Yeah, besides these "id matching" rules don't seem to change anything for high demand concerts :
- they sell out in seconds leaving the average fan out in the cold

Wait, you mean to tell me that when tens of thousands of people are crowding a stadium, watching a band, chances are none of those in attendance are average fans?

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- tickets get resold for tons of money

Or sometimes not.

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Not sure what it would take to change this...
- actually preventing people from getting in like the Foo's or Radiohead did, hard on the unsuspecting buyer of course...

However if the promoters of high demand concerts that are sure to sellout don't do something about it, who is ?

Well, that begs the question, constant hyperbole and cherry picking a few extreme cases aside, does this really needs changing?

Promoters are under a lot of pressure to sell a lot of tickets. There are plenty of "hot" tours where there are still thousands of blue dots leading right up to showtime. Which is why, in spite of all the controversy (much of it completely overblown), no one producing a concert and paying millions up front for the privilege, really wants to prevent anyone from buying tickets.

I live in Los Angeles, a massive concert market and I rarely feel shut out of anything.

To follow-up on the purported Marseille "anti-scalper" policy it seems it was just talk as the e-tickets simply state that the ticket buyer ** MAY ** have to show an I.D. not that it will be checked systematically as they said initially (and was enforced in Barcelona last year or at the Foo's concert at the O2 last year). They don't have the usual "first person to use the e-ticket gets in" though so that's a slight change.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Reported yesterday that 45% of the tickets for the Toronto Blue Jays season opener were sold via Stubhub, with average markup of 205%, AND...the team is getting a significant kickback. I haven’t bothered with baseball since the strike years ago...wonder whether there will be much backlash over this.

[www.thestar.com]

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SomeTorontoGirl
Reported yesterday that 45% of the tickets for the Toronto Blue Jays season opener were sold via Stubhub, with average markup of 205%, AND...the team is getting a significant kickback. I haven’t bothered with baseball since the strike years ago...wonder whether there will be much backlash over this.

[www.thestar.com]

Ontario anti-scalping laws initially included clauses mandating disclosures from primary ticket sellers about overall availability but dropped this under pressure from Live Nation/Ticketmaster saying acts would avoid the area if this happened.

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SomeTorontoGirl
Reported yesterday that 45% of the tickets for the Toronto Blue Jays season opener were sold via Stubhub, with average markup of 205%, AND...the team is getting a significant kickback. I haven’t bothered with baseball since the strike years ago...wonder whether there will be much backlash over this.

[www.thestar.com]

I would assume that most of the tickets were purchased by season ticket holders. There is a wink wink nod nod policy for most teams allowing season ticket holders to sell tickets on secondary market as most buyers cannot go to all or even most games. Alternate would be many seats empty not buying beer/food and little incentive for season ticket holders to commit. There are probably 50 games were a ticket can be had for less than the price of a beer too. Just the flip side of the argument for baseball.

[www.bbc.com]

Good on Ed !! And his manager !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

The ONLY company operating in the secondary market that today continues to defy the inevitable is Viagogo. They'll fight it all the way of course, but in the end ......... it'll be 'bye-bye' from them !

Just a matter of time !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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paulywaul
[www.bbc.com]

Good on Ed !! And his manager !!

Great to read this.

Nate

Ed Sheeran has taken an aggressive stance against touts by cancelling more than 10,000 tickets for his upcoming stadium tour.

After the tour went on sale, the star's team identified purchases by known touts and revoked their tickets.

Any tickets listed for re-sale on sites like Viagogo were also cancelled.

Fans who'd bought from those sites - often at vastly inflated prices - were given assistance in claiming refunds and getting genuine tickets.

So far, more than £240,000 has been returned to fans who inadvertently bought invalid tickets.

"We're achieving exactly what Ed wanted, which is 'we want you to come in and pay this [fixed] price,'" said Stuart Galbraith of concert promoters Kilimanjaro Live.

A further 500 tickets are going to be cancelled this week, ahead of Sheeran's first night at Manchester's Etihad Stadium, he added.

Sheeran's team decided to pursue touts after hundreds of tickets for a Teenage Cancer Trust gig were snapped up and sold for profit last March.

He imposed strict conditions on his 18-date stadium tour, including:

1 - Names printed on tickets, with ID required at the door
2 - A maximum of four tickets per customer
3 - Tickets listed for resale to be cancelled
4 - Any tickets bought by a "business or trader" to be cancelled

In addition, the on-sale date was a Saturday - rather than the traditional Friday - to make sure genuine fans had the greatest possible chance of being online.

Sheeran also partnered with Twickets - a site which allows fans to swap tickets at face value or less, in order to protect fans from the "unethical practices" of touts.

Galbraith negotiated with ticket resellers Get Me In, Seatwave and StubHub to make sure they wouldn't list tickets for the tour - in some cases, using the threat of prosecution under the Consumer Rights Act to reinforce his point.

"The only agency which listed against our wishes and ignored all our correspondence was Viagogo," said Galbraith.

Fans won't be turned away

Once tickets had been sold, the promoters "very laboriously" went through all the transactions and "identified known touts and multiple purchases".

Those tickets, and any listed on sites like Viagogo were immediately invalidated.

"We refunded everybody even though we know they're power sellers and touts, so we can't be accused of taking double income off a single ticket," said Galbraith.

When the tour launches, anyone who turns up unaware their ticket has been cancelled will be met by a customer care team, he added.

"We'll have teams that say, 'your ticket is invalid' and it'll be stamped invalid. That's important because it will enable them to go back to Viagogo and claim a refund.

"What we'll also then do is... send them to the next window and sell them a ticket at face value."

He added: "We genuinely hope we turn away as few people as possible. Because at the end of the day, even the people who've bought in the secondary market, as far as Ed is concerned, are still his [fans]."

At the time of writing, Viagogo was still offering tickets to the tour, with prices in excess of £400, compared to a face value of between £49 and £88.

Sheeran's ticketing system is not a first - Glastonbury and the West End musical Hamilton operate similar policies - but no-one has attempted it for a large-scale tour before.

It was conceived with the help of the FanFair Alliance, which lobbies against the "black market" in concert tickets, and has already been mimicked by the Arctic Monkeys for their upcoming UK tour.

Their manager, Ian McAndrew, said he and the band had grown tired of fans being "misled, confused and, I believe, fraudulently led to spend large sums of money on tickets, even when tickets are actually still available" at face value.

In total, the band sold 190,000 tickets with only a small percentage appearing on secondary resale sites. Again, only Viagogo refused a request not to list the tickets.

The Swiss-based site is currently facing legal action over its failure to comply with consumer protection laws.

Asked for a response to this story, Viagogo directed the BBC to the FAQ section of its website, where it protests against concert promoters who deny entry to fans using resold tickets.

"These types of entry restrictions are highly unfair and in our view, unenforceable and illegal," it says.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-24 09:56 by paulywaul.

well done to Mr Sheeran & his management.

The final straw for him was the scandalous secondary market that sprung up for his RAH Teenage Cancer Trust show last year. Sickening.

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Adrian-L
well done to Mr Sheeran & his management.

The final straw for him was the scandalous secondary market that sprung up for his RAH Teenage Cancer Trust show last year. Sickening.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I remember for the Led Zeppelin O2 show, the exact opposite occured.

Almost no one on the Zep fan forums seemed to have been able to get a ticket in the ticketmaster sale. I searched everywhere and after two months, found someone willing to sell me his ticket for 250 GBP. Then the promoters announced that all ID's would be matched and any ticket that did not match the ticket purchaser would be denied entry. Of course, this led to petitions, television interviews, etc. of lifelong fans that were being denied their right to use tickets that they purchased to see their band. The promoter who was imposing this unfair system must have been the most hated man in the world.

I remember the argument was that despite what the promoter says, fans who purchased the ticket paid for it, and under law, could not be denied the right of entry (or something like that). Basically, the promoter caved and said that all ticketholders would be admitted.

<<< I remember the argument was that despite what the promoter says, fans who purchased the ticket paid for it, and under law, could not be denied the right of entry (or something like that). Basically, the promoter caved and said that all ticketholders would be admitted >>>

Yes, I remember the story well and all the 'noise' at the time.

I think that in the 10/11 years since then (2007), what has happened is that the secondary market has evolved into the absolute monster it is today, represented by those companies mentioned in the BBC Sheeran article. The phenomenon is far worse today than perhaps it was then. The sheer scale on which this form of scalping/gouging takes place today is almost incomparable with what it was then.

And as such, some artists and those in music/artist management have finally decided that enough really is enough, and one of the manifestations of that is what Sheeran & management decided to do. I don't for one moment think it was easy for them 'logistically' - it would have been a real pain in the a** for them in all probability to be honest. Hence, I absolutely applaud the measures they took. at least they tried to be helpful ..........

When the tour launches, anyone who turns up unaware their ticket has been cancelled will be met by a customer care team, he added.

"We'll have teams that say, 'your ticket is invalid' and it'll be stamped invalid. That's important because it will enable them to go back to Viagogo and claim a refund.

"What we'll also then do is... send them to the next window and sell them a ticket at face value."

He added: "We genuinely hope we turn away as few people as possible. Because at the end of the day, even the people who've bought in the secondary market, as far as Ed is concerned, are still his [fans]."

Anyway, that's my take on it ....... no doubt some people think there's nothing wrong with the secondary market as we have it in the year 2018, and will disagree with me wholeheartedly. Whatever ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Why? Seems like a lucrative business. Neoliberals are constantly telling us we need entrepreneurs. Why not ticket scalpers? A ticket scalper is something to be...

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Stoneage
Why? Seems like a lucrative business. Neoliberals are constantly telling us we need entrepreneurs. Why not ticket scalpers? A ticket scalper is something to be...

It's extractive wealth creation. They produce nothing themselves other than purchase a product genuinely desired by others then sell on at a profit. They add no value and are simply bare faced parasites. I have no problem with and and positively support those who generate wealth by adding value.

Must have indeed a big fat pain for them to cancel these tickets and set up the repurchase option on show day. How do they cancel tickets listed on ViaGoGo though, by buying them?

Also what happens if the show is sold-out like the current Arctic Monkeys tour? The promoter sent an email yesterday reminding that all IDs would be checked but that won't help unsuspecting buyers...they also said you had to show up early so in the end it's a hassle for everyone.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio