The prices below are cut and paste from Viagogo This has been standing for months as the ultimate sign of greed. The show is Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland, presumed last show of 2014. A2 is the block next to the catwalk on Ronnie's side. AND THEY DON'T EVEN LIST ROWS OR SEATS.This leaves insanity behind and approaches some sort of perversion.

A2 Floor M $1,175.00 Buy
A2 Floor $15,156.70* Buy
A2 Floor $15,156.70* Buy
A2 Floor $15,830.33* Buy
A2 Floor $16,503.97* Buy
A2 Floor $19,366.90* Buy

$20,000 for a ticket? For that I should be able to sing a duet with Lisa at least! What the hell, do you get to be dropped in by your own private helicopter?

BBC 1 watchdog are doing a piece on viagogo and other secondary ticket sites at 8pm tonight.

Nate

But are they going to interview paulywaul??!!

Quote
Beast
But are they going to interview paulywaul??!!

They really should do!

Quote
MarthaTuesday

Quote
Beast
But are they going to interview paulywaul??!!

They really should do!

I'm SO pissed off with the "secondary market phenomenon" that I really don't think I would actually be capable of being interviewed in any sensible way, simply because I think that rage and exasperation would render me incapable of usefully and constructively articulating my grievances. If I wasn't encumbered by the rather mundane (but unfortunately necessary) task of earning a living, I think I would otherwise devote serious time to getting however many signatures it takes on a petition that I would subsequently submit to HM Government, and that BY LAW would oblige them to look at this phenomenon and debate the question of legislation, because it is abundantly obvious that as a phenomenon - it has now gotten completely out of hand.

Hmm ........ maybe a few months off work ???

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
Nate
BBC 1 watchdog are doing a piece on viagogo and other secondary ticket sites at 8pm tonight.

Nate

Thanks for that, I'll check it out.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Hi P.W.,

I am onboard 100% with this, natch. Disappointingly, this is from today's Indy...

[www.independent.co.uk]

This is what we're up against. There is only one MP that I have heard that tries to raise this issue consistently, and that is Sharon Hodgson. For the record, I couldn't care less which party she is a member of. I include a link to her own site that details where things stand:

[www.sharonhodgson.org]

Not great, is it?

Cheers,

Simon.

Quote
SimonN
Hi P.W.,

I am onboard 100% with this, natch. Disappointingly, this is from today's Indy...

[www.independent.co.uk]

This is what we're up against. There is only one MP that I have heard that tries to raise this issue consistently, and that is Sharon Hodgson. For the record, I couldn't care less which party she is a member of. I include a link to her own site that details where things stand:

[www.sharonhodgson.org]

Not great, is it?

Cheers,

Simon.

Thanks for that. Yes, I'd heard of the MP Sharon Hodgson, but not this (obvious TWAT) that goes by the name of SAJID JAVID. It would seem that his own viewpoint is more than a little out of step with mainstream thinking on this particular issue, so quite open to "challenge" ........ to use politically correct terminology !!

"ENTREPRENEURS" my a** !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
latvianinexile
I have been watching viagogo for quite some time now, seen the BBC documentary etc.

Example: when viagogo lists 255 Berlin standing tickets, as they do right now, that does not mean they really have 255 standing tickets. They list some for 300 or 400 EUR + fees. Then the top end is 3000, 4500 or 5000 EUR for the same type of ticket. That is only to make the cheaper ones look reasonable.

The viagogo Berlin standing tickets sell for about the same price as on German ebay. Prices have been decreasing.

Well, there's now 258 !!!

And today there's still 258. Boy o boy - these are selling well

Choke on it scalpers !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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kahoosier
The prices below are cut and paste from Viagogo This has been standing for months as the ultimate sign of greed. The show is Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland, presumed last show of 2014. A2 is the block next to the catwalk on Ronnie's side. AND THEY DON'T EVEN LIST ROWS OR SEATS.This leaves insanity behind and approaches some sort of perversion.

A2 Floor M $1,175.00 Buy
A2 Floor $15,156.70* Buy
A2 Floor $15,156.70* Buy
A2 Floor $15,830.33* Buy
A2 Floor $16,503.97* Buy
A2 Floor $19,366.90* Buy

$20,000 for a ticket? For that I should be able to sing a duet with Lisa at least! What the hell, do you get to be dropped in by your own private helicopter?

Hey Doc, how are you doing ?

Joining in on the anti-scalper rant ? Good man, the more ranting the better, that's what I say.

Surprised you're not picking up some of these bargains though. I mean to say, come on ........... AUS$ 19,366.90 for a Stones ticket ? And what, you think this is an unreasonable sum of money to pay ? Don't be absurd, it's cheap, I've seen tickets for sale at $50,000 before now. So go for it, grab a bargain whilst you can, you KNOW it makes sense !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

When talking about the German market ebay is the benchmark more than Viagogo. There are plenty of tickets for the most sought-after Berlin gig on German ebay. The average price for standing tickets has dropped from 450 EUR to around 350 EUR. Right now there are offers for 333 and 349 EUR with the 'buy now' option and nobody is buying them.

So people without tickets can be confident that at the end of the day even Berlin tickets will be available below face value.

@kahoosier
The 19,000 and 15,000 $ tickets for Auckland are listed only to make the 1,175 $ ticket look more reasonable. That is part of Viagogo's tactics. Viagogo is happy if someone buys a ticket for 1,175. Those silly prices will disappear after a while.

Quote
latvianinexile
When talking about the German market ebay is the benchmark more than Viagogo. There are plenty of tickets for the most sought-after Berlin gig on German ebay. The average price for standing tickets has dropped from 450 EUR to around 350 EUR. Right now there are offers for 333 and 349 EUR with the 'buy now' option and nobody is buying them.

So people without tickets can be confident that at the end of the day even Berlin tickets will be available below face value.

@kahoosier
The 19,000 and 15,000 $ tickets for Auckland are listed only to make the 1,175 $ ticket look more reasonable. That is part of Viagogo's tactics. Viagogo is happy if someone buys a ticket for 1,175. Those silly prices will disappear after a while.

Thanks very much for that, most interesting. Well the face value of a Berlin pit ticket is €224.50. You say there's no takers for those on sale through ebay, even for prices like €333 or €349 ? It does make one wonder what the REAL demand for the Stones at the Waldebuhne actually is. Obviously not anything as the likes of Seatwave and Viagogo would like to have us believe.

O silly me, I forgot ............... this gig is SOLD OUT !!

Yeah right !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 13:01 by paulywaul.

There will be a brief surge in ticket prices on the secondary markets after the first night if reviews are great and they're on the front page of all the papers again. Then it'll settle down again, to think the smallest gig of the tour is Berlin and FOS will be going for face (approximately) nearer show time is unbelievable.

Quote
flairville
There will be a brief surge in ticket prices on the secondary markets after the first night if reviews are great and they're on the front page of all the papers again. Then it'll settle down again, to think the smallest gig of the tour is Berlin and FOS will be going for face (approximately) nearer show time is unbelievable.

See you in front of that stage there good Sir, and none of your customary exuberance on show please. We wish this to be a refined and dignified night out, can't be doing with all this boisterous larking about. If you're going to start that kind of nonsense, we shall have to ask you to leave !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Can't promise!

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flairville
Can't promise!

Restraining order on its way !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I despise scalpers (touts) but here is why they are also welcomed

imagine the Stones announce a concert at a venue seating 20,000 and in order to be seen as doing something wonderful for their fans, they announce the price for tickets at 10 a euros or $15.00. The semand would be off the charts. EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO GO - hardcore fans, casual fans, disinterested people looking for a night out, people who knew not even the 'warhorses' but maybe just one song, people who knew no songs but who had heard that they were a pretty good band. I think you get the idea. Even if the tickets were sold on site at the box-office, one ticket to a customer, people would line up for days early to secure a ticket. They would essentially be sold out one week before sale date with a line 20,000 long camping out in the street days before sale date. (Listen, in America we have nut jobs camping out in front of Apple stores prior to the latest release of an iPhone!). So, in my Stones scenario, anyone living too far to camp out for a week would not get tickets, anyone who had a job could not get tickets, anyone who had a family with family obligations could not get a ticket. And if the Stones did this we would welcome scalpers as the only way of getting a ticket.

Yes yes, that's all very well. I'm hardly suggesting we go back to the pre-internet age where people had to queue up outside venues. We're in the internet age now whether we like it or not, and there's no going back.

But please do not tell me that there is not a way to effectively outlaw the current practices of the primary vendors and the secondary market re-sellers with whom they're in obvious cahoots, and furthermore - to implement measures that do to a great extent ensure that the people who buy tickets for an event actually GO to that event, and that if someone other than the purchaser of a ticket turns up with it - a check is run and if the name or ID doesn't tally, the ticket is invalidated and the person refused entry. There ARE any number of mechanisms that could be very easily employed to effectively discourage if not virtually eradicate the current state of affairs, it just needs THE WILL.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 14:33 by paulywaul.

Paris show - situation 22 May

110 Pelouse VIP tickets available, cheapest is GBP £324. That's a price drop of £39 in 48 hours.

Keep going .....................

[www.viagogo.co.uk]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
Nate
BBC 1 watchdog are doing a piece on viagogo and other secondary ticket sites at 8pm tonight.

Nate

[www.bbc.co.uk]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Keep up the good work PW, we'll stuff the bar stewards. I haven't got time for Watchdog as I'm getting ready to fly to Oslo tomorrow night.

Entrepreneurs my arse. An entrepreneur is someone who provides an innovative service or product to makes people's lives easier. They provide no service and add no value, they simply sponge off the Concert go-er and the Performer.

Legislation required soon! A pity that only 1 MP out of 650 gives sh*t.

In a world where even the official price of a PIT ticket can run over $1000 as a "package", the prices have gotten insane. I am not sure what the answer is, because it cuts both ways. And I am not the only poster here that feels this way, in fact I frequently chat with a few, but we have gotten spoiled. Gone are the days when sitting at the back of the floor seems enough for some of us, and the addition of the pit has added a Holy Grail. It is deplorable, but I also know people that I see regularly up front that get there at the last minute. Now we may be wiser, and wait until last minute so things are at or near face value again, but lets be honest, even if you were at the Beacon Via Shelly, in some small way at some point you have supported the secondary market. If you have two A blocks, and the day of the show score FOS, then turn around and sell your A block AT ANY COST, you have now become the secondary market. I wholeheartedly agree that it is out of control, that the prices are ridiculous, that there is a sham of some sort. The problem is how to legislate against something we all are happy to take part in when it suits us? I mean even the forum here, All Sold Out, is in fact a secondary market, it may be fans helping fans...but...If you buy the maximum amount of pit tickets because you are sure you can resale them later, EVEN IF YOU WANT TO DO IT FOR COST, you just screwed the stranger two blocks away at his laptop who now sees "Unavailable" show up on his screen. I know its like comparing a poor guy on the street stealing an apple from the fruit stand to Organized Crime, but the reality is that both violate the same principle, just to a different degree. To absolutely get rid of secondary marketing, some of us are going to have to say "I only got in to two shows, one n row 10 and one in in the pit," rather than " I have 4 out of 5 of the Pit Tickets I want." Lets look at it another way, I am good friends with people right now who say, " we are going to 5 shows and we already have tickets for 4" Wait a minute, if not the secondary market, where is that 5th show coming from? If anyone made airline reservation to travel BEFORE they had a ticket, and AFTER a show was officially sold out, they planned on the secondary market.

And there in is the rub, we all say we hate it, the prices are ridiculous, and we all are willing to use it to get what we want.

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I despise scalpers (touts) but here is why they are also welcomed

imagine the Stones announce a concert at a venue seating 20,000 and in order to be seen as doing something wonderful for their fans, they announce the price for tickets at 10 a euros or $15.00. The semand would be off the charts. EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO GO - hardcore fans, casual fans, disinterested people looking for a night out, people who knew not even the 'warhorses' but maybe just one song, people who knew no songs but who had heard that they were a pretty good band. I think you get the idea. Even if the tickets were sold on site at the box-office, one ticket to a customer, people would line up for days early to secure a ticket. They would essentially be sold out one week before sale date with a line 20,000 long camping out in the street days before sale date. (Listen, in America we have nut jobs camping out in front of Apple stores prior to the latest release of an iPhone!). So, in my Stones scenario, anyone living too far to camp out for a week would not get tickets, anyone who had a job could not get tickets, anyone who had a family with family obligations could not get a ticket. And if the Stones did this we would welcome scalpers as the only way of getting a ticket.

Yes yes, that's all very well. I'm hardly suggesting we go back to the pre-internet age where people had to queue up outside venues. We're in the internet age now whether we like it or not, and there's no going back.

But please do not tell me that there is not a way to effectively outlaw the current practices of the primary vendors and the secondary market re-sellers with whom they're in obvious cahoots, and furthermore - to implement measures that do to a great extent ensure that the people who buy tickets for an event actually GO to that event, and that if someone other than the purchaser of a ticket turns up with it - a check is run and if the name or ID doesn't tally, the ticket is invalidated and the person refused entry. There ARE any number of mechanisms that could be very easily employed to effectively discourage if not virtually eradicate the current state of affairs, it just needs THE WILL.

I know that we are in the internet age. Ok, so the stones announce a show at an arena where only the actual buyer of the ticket is allowed to see the show. They even limit tickets to TWO PER BUYER. TICKET PRICES ARE AN ASTOUNDINGLY LOW $20.00. STONES FANS AROUND THE WORLD REJOICE. FINALLY, THE BAND IS PLAYING FOR THEIR FANS NOT FOR THEIR LOVE OF MONEY. ONE MINOR PROBLEM. 20,000 seats, demand in the millions. Buying a ticket would be like winning the lottery. Sure, if I bought a ticket at this price I'd be happy. But zillions of real fans would be left without a ticket. IN OTHER WORDS, COUNTERINTUITIVELY, HIGHER PRICES GIVE REAL FANS A CHANCE TO SEE THE BAND. scalpers allow fans a another shot if they really want to go. PRICES TOO LOW WOULD BE A REAL NIGHTMARE! Outlawing of scalping would be 'tragic' in its own way

Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I despise scalpers (touts) but here is why they are also welcomed

imagine the Stones announce a concert at a venue seating 20,000 and in order to be seen as doing something wonderful for their fans, they announce the price for tickets at 10 a euros or $15.00. The semand would be off the charts. EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO GO - hardcore fans, casual fans, disinterested people looking for a night out, people who knew not even the 'warhorses' but maybe just one song, people who knew no songs but who had heard that they were a pretty good band. I think you get the idea. Even if the tickets were sold on site at the box-office, one ticket to a customer, people would line up for days early to secure a ticket. They would essentially be sold out one week before sale date with a line 20,000 long camping out in the street days before sale date. (Listen, in America we have nut jobs camping out in front of Apple stores prior to the latest release of an iPhone!). So, in my Stones scenario, anyone living too far to camp out for a week would not get tickets, anyone who had a job could not get tickets, anyone who had a family with family obligations could not get a ticket. And if the Stones did this we would welcome scalpers as the only way of getting a ticket.

Yes yes, that's all very well. I'm hardly suggesting we go back to the pre-internet age where people had to queue up outside venues. We're in the internet age now whether we like it or not, and there's no going back.

But please do not tell me that there is not a way to effectively outlaw the current practices of the primary vendors and the secondary market re-sellers with whom they're in obvious cahoots, and furthermore - to implement measures that do to a great extent ensure that the people who buy tickets for an event actually GO to that event, and that if someone other than the purchaser of a ticket turns up with it - a check is run and if the name or ID doesn't tally, the ticket is invalidated and the person refused entry. There ARE any number of mechanisms that could be very easily employed to effectively discourage if not virtually eradicate the current state of affairs, it just needs THE WILL.

I know that we are in the internet age. Ok, so the stones announce a show at an arena where only the actual buyer of the ticket is allowed to see the show. They even limit tickets to TWO PER BUYER. TICKET PRICES ARE AN ASTOUNDINGLY LOW $20.00. STONES FANS AROUND THE WORLD REJOICE. FINALLY, THE BAND IS PLAYING FOR THEIR FANS NOT FOR THEIR LOVE OF MONEY. ONE MINOR PROBLEM. 20,000 seats, demand in the millions. Buying a ticket would be like winning the lottery. Sure, if I bought a ticket at this price I'd be happy. But zillions of real fans would be left without a ticket. IN OTHER WORDS, COUNTERINTUITIVELY, HIGHER PRICES GIVE REAL FANS A CHANCE TO SEE THE BAND. scalpers allow fans a another shot if they really want to go. PRICES TOO LOW WOULD BE A REAL NIGHTMARE! Outlawing of scalping would be 'tragic' in its own way

The runaway secondary market phenomenon has got nothing to do with one little rock n' roll band called the Rolling Stones, so stop using them as an example.

Here in UK it is ILLEGAL (get me - ILLEGAL !!!) to sell a ticket for a soccer match for ANYTHING other than its face value. Unfortunately, this piece of legislation ONLY pertains to THAT particular commodity, namely a ticket for a soccer match. What unquestionably needs to happen now is that this law needs to be extended to cover every type of event, whether it be film, theatre, music, sport - whatever.

These are not items that should be bought and sold speculatively, these are items that should be given a price, one single price, and sold at that price. NOT scooped by the truckload C/O an army of companies MASQUERADING AS FAN TO FAN TICKET EXCHANGE SITES (which they are most clearly NOT) and then re-sold, making the artist NO money - but the re-seller shitloads.

I disagree with your rather "accommodating" view of this modern day phenomenon strongly. With all due respect, I think you're rather missing the point here ........

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
kahoosier
In a world where even the official price of a PIT ticket can run over $1000 as a "package", the prices have gotten insane. I am not sure what the answer is, because it cuts both ways. And I am not the only poster here that feels this way, in fact I frequently chat with a few, but we have gotten spoiled. Gone are the days when sitting at the back of the floor seems enough for some of us, and the addition of the pit has added a Holy Grail. It is deplorable, but I also know people that I see regularly up front that get there at the last minute. Now we may be wiser, and wait until last minute so things are at or near face value again, but lets be honest, even if you were at the Beacon Via Shelly, in some small way at some point you have supported the secondary market. If you have two A blocks, and the day of the show score FOS, then turn around and sell your A block AT ANY COST, you have now become the secondary market. I wholeheartedly agree that it is out of control, that the prices are ridiculous, that there is a sham of some sort. The problem is how to legislate against something we all are happy to take part in when it suits us? I mean even the forum here, All Sold Out, is in fact a secondary market, it may be fans helping fans...but...If you buy the maximum amount of pit tickets because you are sure you can resale them later, EVEN IF YOU WANT TO DO IT FOR COST, you just screwed the stranger two blocks away at his laptop who now sees "Unavailable" show up on his screen. I know its like comparing a poor guy on the street stealing an apple from the fruit stand to Organized Crime, but the reality is that both violate the same principle, just to a different degree. To absolutely get rid of secondary marketing, some of us are going to have to say "I only got in to two shows, one n row 10 and one in in the pit," rather than " I have 4 out of 5 of the Pit Tickets I want." Lets look at it another way, I am good friends with people right now who say, " we are going to 5 shows and we already have tickets for 4" Wait a minute, if not the secondary market, where is that 5th show coming from? If anyone made airline reservation to travel BEFORE they had a ticket, and AFTER a show was officially sold out, they planned on the secondary market.

And there in is the rub, we all say we hate it, the prices are ridiculous, and we all are willing to use it to get what we want.

Yes yes yes, don't beat about the bush, that person is ME and I DO have pit tickets for four out of the five shows I'm going to. So as to the fifth show, where is that ticket coming from ????

Well to state the bleeding obvious, it is probably going to come from the secondary market, but it sure as hell aint gonna be bought for something approaching four times the ticket's face value - which is what is currently being asked by VIAGOGO for example.

Don't you get my point ? IF the current practices were outlawed, the chances are I wouldn't be in this predicament - would I ? And why not ? Because the probability is that instead of the hundreds of those particular category of tickets showing up as UNAVAILABLE within 90 seconds of the sale starting on the appointed primary vendor's site (because they were channelled straight to the secondary market) - I would more than likely have been able to get one, cos' they'd have actually been AVAILABLE !!!

It really isn't too difficult a concept to grasp. STOP F***ING with the market, stop DISTORTING it, and give the genuine concert goer a fairer crack of the whip !!!

And if bringing about that condition requires intervention and legislation, then for f***s sake get off the fence and start intervening and legislating !!!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Imho "real" scalpers (guys who will be around the venue on showday, not Net brokers) might have an edge over you, ticketless people because of the way the 14-On-Fire is organized.

ONE show per country means you might see 1000's coming from all parts of a country and trying their luck to get a ticket by any means.

Add to this the "could be the last time" factor and the buyer/seller balance of power might be in favour of sellers...

Quote
dcba
Imho "real" scalpers (guys who will be around the venue on showday, not Net brokers) might have an edge over you, ticketless people because of the way the 14-On-Fire is organized.

ONE show per country means you might see 1000's coming from all parts of a country and trying their luck to get a ticket by any means.

Add to this the "could be the last time" factor and the buyer/seller balance of power might be in favour of sellers...

Distinctly possible, but that form of face to face "on the doorstep" scalping is almost more bearable, because it's just "you and them" (so to say) on the doorstep an hour before show-time. You can see the colour of their tickets, and they can see the colour of your money. And depending on the lateness of the hour the TRUE demand for any given event, some YOU win - and some perhaps THEY win. So be it.

The deliberate withholding of tickets by primary vendors and the corresponding routing straight to the re-sellers is what most people find so objectionable, certainly I do. The grubby little touting bastard outside the venue is, as I say, almost more tolerable than the current form of electronic net based scalping, which is all the more offensive because the participants try and gloss over the realities of what it actually is by telling us that it's all for the benefit of fans and a convenient place for people to exchange tickets - and so on. WHAT a load of absolute cobblers !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

LOL actually Paul for some reason I thought of Sara on the 4 out of 5 tickets.

And I hate the viagogo thing , but its the chicken and egg question. In an era of increasing government control and legislation, there are many who think just adding more laws is not the answer. It could be argued that if people with 4 tickets would just be satisfied, as they more or less had to be 25 years ago, and refused to deal with the secondary market, it would dry up. If you want laws preventing this, even though you MIGHT have that fifth ticket in a different world, in this world buying it from the people you complain about is just a bit contradictory, it's biting the hand that feeds you no matter the cost of the food. Legislating any commodity is legislating morality. Again, you are allowed to buy 6 PIT tickets, and you do, because you are pretty sure that you're less fortunate friends will buy them. Even if you intend to sell them at cost, to the first guy up the street that gets the "unavailable" message, for him the result is the same as when Viagogo buys 500. That guy could easily yell "foul" and start preaching that each person only be allowed to buy a ticket for himself. Or maybe one plus another for a date...well maybe a brother-in-law will want to come. To legislate, each possibility will have to be approached and argued.

I am not disagreeing with you, something needs to be done, I am just not sure that inviting even more government control into Rock and Roll , a music that found it's greatest success by advocating less control, is the answer. Perhaps its time instead we all bite the bullet, and take what we get and leave the rest. Stop buying from these people until they go away. a hooker and a john, who is the biggest criminal? How about this, let them buy the tickets if the want then prosecute the people willing to pay extra? Maybe that is the law that needs to be passed. After all, that is somewhat how drug laws work, illegal to sell or to buy? Should we prosecute people that buy from scalpers? Or since we are those people, do we forgive them? Are they innocent or part of the problem? You mentioned a $50000 ticket, if someone offered you that , would you sell your ticket? Of course you would. What if it were illegal, of course you still would.

I don't have any answers, I am just saying a rush to legislate when we ourselves at times perpetuate the activity ( but just when WE NEED IT, when forced to get what we want) may come back to bite us in the ass some day.

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
dcba
Imho "real" scalpers (guys who will be around the venue on showday, not Net brokers) might have an edge over you, ticketless people because of the way the 14-On-Fire is organized.

ONE show per country means you might see 1000's coming from all parts of a country and trying their luck to get a ticket by any means.

Add to this the "could be the last time" factor and the buyer/seller balance of power might be in favour of sellers...

Distinctly possible, but that form of face to face "on the doorstep" scalping is almost more bearable, because it's just "you and them" (so to say) on the doorstep an hour before show-time. You can see the colour of their tickets, and they can see the colour of your money. And depending on the lateness of the hour the TRUE demand for any given event, some YOU win - and some perhaps THEY win. So be it.

The deliberate withholding of tickets by primary vendors and the corresponding routing straight to the re-sellers is what most people find so objectionable, certainly I do. The grubby little touting bastard outside the venue is, as I say, almost more tolerable than the current form of electronic net based scalping, which is all the more offensive because the participants try and gloss over the realities of what it actually is by telling us that it's all for the benefit of fans and a convenient place for people to exchange tickets - and so on. WHAT a load of absolute cobblers !!

This DEFINATELY happens. Of that I am in zero doubt. Pelouse VIP disappeared from view INSTANTLY at 9am for Paris. WHY? The difficulty is proving it. I am in 0.000 doubt that there's collusion between the Official Outlets and the Online Parasites. I am relaxed about showing up on the day without a ticket.

My vote for the bentest most corruptly organised gig of the tour is Paris with all of the rest a distant 2nd.