What's up with Keith's Telecaster here? This is a photo from Jim Marshall's book.

I don't think I have seen tuners like this, esp. on a Tele.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-30 23:02 by bv.

Thanks! Sure it isn't the photo playing tricks? Too glossy?

Probably special mod to accomodate his 5 string setup (i'm guessing). peace

when one thinks about ketchup especially the mushroom variety and manifestations of sorrow and the great why one does not have to look further than turnips and cucumbers a wonderful way to sit with spring peepers and marshmallow banjo strings while Uranus floats along its liquid heavens so it's with great trepidation cool whip silliness sings in my ear whilst a kazoo twitters madly along a velvet curtains to the empire, the smell of bubble & squeak wafting down the staircase of madness erstwhile a roll of nancy if you will or perhaps not lucy cried the milky tears of malaise as one wonders re: an adjournment from the heartache but erstwhile i hear smeagel calling out for precious i would consider a tangent along the lines of christmas cheer the cauliflower paperweight quickly melted a cold steam of tuna dancing along a creek or railroad poem chanting whether the debate will grow critics reply aghast though one asks mi'lady whether it all really matters anyway the depths of fan droplets mouth sways coldly, neither laughing nor even screaming the worst of it was laughing so hard his nose indeed her cheek lay sprawling three four two alpha charlie i cannot keep this cold saltwater dandiness and ink spots earache tusey potato crisps or is it chips when martha came at the tarmac the light illuminating cold milk and balloons ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:30 by MILKYWAY.

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Naturalust
Probably special mod to accomodate his 5 string setup (i'm guessing). peace

First -> Good to see you around here again after not "reading" you in a while.

Second -> in reply to your actual post -> Yours would have been an early guess for me except for the fact that there are clearly 6 tuners and pegs and doesn't Keith normally remove the extra tuner and peg? I'd think that, by '72, if Keith would have received a special mod in relation to the 5 string setup, it would have been made with only 5 tuners & pegs.

Here's my guess - and I'm grasping as I've never seen anything like what appears to be in the picture: Possibly it was presented to Keith and the techs as something to help improve sustain similar to Strat players "locking" their tailpiece if they're not going to use the whammy bar.

C'mon Mathis, 71Tele, DandelionPowderman or DoomandGloom... Ever seen something like this before?

Peace,
Mr DJA

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mr_dja

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Naturalust
Probably special mod to accomodate his 5 string setup (i'm guessing). peace

First -> Good to see you around here again after not "reading" you in a while.

Second -> in reply to your actual post -> Yours would have been an early guess for me except for the fact that there are clearly 6 tuners and pegs and doesn't Keith normally remove the extra tuner and peg? I'd think that, by '72, if Keith would have received a special mod in relation to the 5 string setup, it would have been made with only 5 tuners & pegs.

Here's my guess - and I'm grasping as I've never seen anything like what appears to be in the picture: Possibly it was presented to Keith and the techs as something to help improve sustain similar to Strat players "locking" their tailpiece if they're not going to use the whammy bar.

C'mon Mathis, 71Tele, DandelionPowderman or DoomandGloom... Ever seen something like this before?

Peace,
Mr DJA

I think you're on to something. Especially on the sustain idea.

CBII

Thanks for chipping in CBII. I can't believe that I forgot to include you in my list of call-outs of people who I thought might have seen something like this before!

This would have been a good one to send Pierre in Mathis' questions list...

Peace,
Mr DJA

Surprised no answers... I think these tuners are from a Fender lap or pedal steel...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-30 23:59 by DoomandGloom.

It's a guitar he used for TD or Happy, no?

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DandelionPowderman
It's a guitar he used for TD or Happy, no?

If someone can photoshop a closeup of the plate where the neck joins the body we will know. My guess it's a 3 bolt neck and this is his alternate 72 Tele Custom. It's got a capo at the forth fret so that could be TD. There's one other song where he puts the capo there but I don't remember which. Many of the things we take for granted, pick up swapping, different tuners, neck swaps were still new territory in the 70's, Keith, Pete T, Steely Dan's Jeff Baxter, Eric Clapton... These guys were big on swapping parts. Clapton's Blackie is a parts guitar, Baxter was one of the first to stick a humbucker in a Fender. he worked on NY's 48nd street as a tech. These guys were into customizing their stuff before you could even buy a pickup by itself... Still can't place those tuner. I've seen them before, maybe one side of a Coronado 12 string???? They are Fender parts because the strings insert into the tuner shafts....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 00:52 by DoomandGloom.

Well it's capoed on the 4th fret, so if we assume its in Open G, that makes it the key of B....which makes Happy or Tumbling Dice two good choices....

Tried Photoshop zoom and did some image enhancements...but the image isn't of high enough quality to see anything....

thanks… post it anyhow, lighten it up not much zoom needed..

So it appears that the tuners are Grovers, that were used on Martin 12 strings in the late 60s, early 70s....

Still seems odd though....

Here it is....

Those are the back of the tuners but grover must have made these for Fender as well, it appears Keith's has Fender style shafts. Also the spacing would have to be exact from Martin to Fender so my guess Keith's are Grovers made for Fender.. This is a cool find Mrpaul. The plate picture is inconclusive but I think this is a circa '72 Custom.

Yes, I would have thought it was a huge coincidence to have the Martin holes spaced exactly the same as a Fender...

Here is another version but there are the three vertical grooves on the back, so they are similar but different from the Martin ones...

MrPaul I want these tuners. I'd try them on a Tele or Strat if I could find a set..

in 1972 fender tele's still had four bolt neck plates

Sweet Catch Mr Paul! Thanks for sharing the knowledge! Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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TheGreek
in 1972 fender tele's still had four bolt neck plates

yes but Customs and Deluxes had bullet rods and 3 bolts

There are a lot of these available on eBay....not overly expensive (IMO)

eBay Grover tuners $27.50

More eBay $59.99

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mrpaulincanada
There are a lot of these available on eBay....not overly expensive (IMO)

eBay Grover tuners $27.50

More eBay $59.99

Quite cheap actually -- but they don't have a split shaft safe-T post (as apposed to the Keith pic) which make them a no go.

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mr_dja
Second -> in reply to your actual post -> Yours would have been an early guess for me except for the fact that there are clearly 6 tuners and pegs and doesn't Keith normally remove the extra tuner and peg? I'd think that, by '72, if Keith would have received a special mod in relation to the 5 string setup, it would have been made with only 5 tuners & pegs.

No, they all have the 6 tuners even when strung with only 5 strings.
except for the Ted Newman-Jones guitars which where designed that way from the start.
different thing with the saddles.
the Telecaster headstock looks really goofy with only 5 tuners attached. I've tried it myself ... but no way. it looks so wrong.
I wrap a small rubber band to the one empty post to keep it from rattling.

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open-g

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mrpaulincanada
There are a lot of these available on eBay....not overly expensive (IMO)

eBay Grover tuners $27.50

More eBay $59.99

Quite cheap actually -- but they don't have a split shaft safe-T post (as apposed to the Keith pic) which make them a no go.

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mr_dja
Second -> in reply to your actual post -> Yours would have been an early guess for me except for the fact that there are clearly 6 tuners and pegs and doesn't Keith normally remove the extra tuner and peg? I'd think that, by '72, if Keith would have received a special mod in relation to the 5 string setup, it would have been made with only 5 tuners & pegs.

No, they all have the 6 tuners even when strung with only 5 strings.
except for the Ted Newman-Jones guitars which where designed that way from the start.
different thing with the saddles.
the Telecaster headstock looks really goofy with only 5 tuners attached. I've tried it myself ... but no way. it looks so wrong.
I wrap a small rubber band to the one empty post to keep it from rattling.

You are SO right! Where's the smiley with a forehead smack when you need it? As soon as I read your post and got to the word saddles my brain sceamed a major DOH! Ah the joys of a fading memory...

Good catch open-g...

Peace,
Mr DJA

This came with a beat up '56 Tele I picked up a couple of years ago (obviously not original to the guitar):

Cool xke! Did you use the giutar while they were still on it? If so, could you tell any difference between these tuners and the originals?

Peace,
Mr DJA

xke 38.... I suppose Keith once owned the 56 Tele you possess, This is an unusual mod..

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mr_dja
Cool xke! Did you use the giutar while they were still on it? If so, could you tell any difference between these tuners and the originals?

Peace,
Mr DJA

I did, but it was in pretty rough shape and I subsequently had it restored/converted to an Esquire with an original '50s bridge pickup (the pickups had been replaced with newer ones), so I can't really comment on the effect of the Tuners.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-02 14:56 by xke38.

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DoomandGloom
xke 38.... I suppose Keith once owned the 56 Tele you possess, This is an unusual mod..

I hadn't thought of that, but now you mention it it's so obvious. It was also routed (actually, hacked would be a more appropriate description) for a humbucker in the neck pickup position.

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mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust