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I liken this performance (and the Hyde Park shows) to Muhammad Ali's epic victories over George Foreman in Zaire in 1974 and Joe Frazier in Manilla a year later. Without those two victories Ali wouldn't be recognized today as the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. To earn the title of "greatest of all time," you really have to do something extraordinary, and do it for a long time. What the Stones did at Glastonbury and Hyde Park last summer (at roughly 70 years of age) and what they have achieved overall over the last half century is truly remarkable. They have now outlasted the Beatles by 44 years! They have earned the title of: Greatest Rock 'N Roll Band Of All Time!
Stones On Fire In A Blaze Of Glory
Hardly their most pure form.
Just my opinion....
About as pure as they are now.
Could the term "paradigmatic" cover what you intended to state?
In my view, by the way, it is paradigmatic for the Stones almost never to be pure as such.
75 78 and 81 were nice isotopes...
If anything, I thought more about (and in a popular way)
[en.wikipedia.org]
especially the term "paradigm shifts", once again in a simplified way.
There I thought that the term "paradigm shift" gives as a taste of what a few rock bands achieved during some parts of their career. That is, they contributed to largely change the definitions of what rock (and subgenres) is, was or might be. The said years was within the period when the Stones themselves probably most of all of their periods might be said to contribute to that.
Therefore, I suggested "paradigmatic" as an alternative to "pure", due to the objections that can be raised to "pure" characterizing Stones music from almost any period. Maybe I ought to have proposed "quintessential" instead, if "paradigmatical" feels so totally unfamiliar also in a popular sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-10 17:11 by Witness.
Easy Doxa, allow the guy some rest and recreation.
Quote His M: "it's fair to say that the Taylor years onstage are a more musical and emotional affair than the Jones years."
And how about the Wood years onstage?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 16:13 by kleermaker.
I agree about the gold.
But apart from that, I am afraid that your response obscures the discovery His Majesty highlighted, as a novelty also in his understanding, I wonder, and enters here. If we take away certain soul/gospel songs, I find it highly relevant the identification of a new emotional trait of the Stones at times in certain songs in 1966 and 1967. In fact, on a personal level, if I may argue that way, it was this emotional trait as added to everything else that the Stones had got, which made me finally identify without reserve with the band. "She Smiled Sweetly most of all. For now they could supply me with everything, me, who with the arrival of the American version of OUT OF OUR HEADS originally was more engaged in that album's two soul/gospel songs than "Satisfaction".
They were capable and sometimes did convey emotion during the Wood years, but in 70's and 80's I think the clowning around damaged their music, same with the overly slick presentation, but scattered playing of later years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 19:22 by His Majesty.
Talking about onstage.
They were a tight wonderful unit musically from the start, but it's not till 1966 that the more melancholy side of things really begins to come in to their live sound.
I acknowledge "As Tears Go by". But wonder if the song at the outset was made with themselves in mind.
.
.
The gold is more abundant in the first two eras though.
To be fair to Jones era, it was a full on battle to even try to make the stage a place for gentler more melancholic emotion. The crazed audiences and technology were both things that hindered progress and focus on the music, but yet they still kicked the proverbial arse! The deeper stuff is quite abundant and potent on their studio recordings, especially from Aftermath to Beggars Banquet.
Emotion as deep as those conveyed via studio versions of, for example, Ruby Tuesday and No Expectations wasn't really an achievable goal onstage during the teenie bopper years.
No, they lost 1 - 0 in final seconds due to a terrible referee , lost 2nd place in league, £250'000 and will now have a shorter break between seasons before the European games start.
... a bit, but it's their own fault for being wishy washy since they won a trophy a few months back. Been 2nd since xmas, lost that place in the final minute of the last game of the season.
Still, we won a trophy this season for first time in 19 years.
Pfft, long distance supporter of a team from somewhere yah weren't born in?
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
ThickerThanThieves
()
Date: May 10, 2014 06:10
Quote
oldschoolQuote
24FPSQuote
ThickerThanThievesQuote
24FPSQuote
ThickerThanThieves
I have no doubt if the Stones did a club tour today featuring the deeper cuts and selected covers we would all be hailing it as their greatest tour of all time. Just imagine a whole show filled with songs like the two songs the Stones did with the Black Keys and John Mayer and Gary Clark Jr. for the PPV concert? Was that awesome or what?
Who are we kidding here? The Stones aren't great anymore. If you are willing to accept that Keith Richards guitar playing is a shadow of itself, fine. This greatest 'tour right around the corner' ain't happening unless medical science finds some immediate cure for those arthritic nodes on his fingers. That's not Keith's fault, but please, get real. Greatness was yesterday. Nostalgia is now. Quit pretending they're on an uphill trajectory. That's a disservice to the zeniths of '65, '69, or 72/73.
Audiences today are just happy they can see a reasonable facsimile of what once was. There's no artistic heights at a Rolling Stones concert now, at least nothing near to what they were even 8 years ago. (It's been that long already!) Hell, they were slowing down musically by then. Sure Mick is still plugging along, and it's heartening to hear Keith sing a little better, but please, stop saying the next concert will be the very best. It's okay to admit that people in their 20s could do things a lot better than people in their freakin' 70s. At least you can do rock and roll a hell of a lot better.
Glastonbury 2013.
Here in the states we haven't been able to see Glastonbury. But the Hyde Park DVD was lame at best. They must have sucked it up for Glastonbury.
Speak for yourself as I live in the U.S. I have viewed my DVD of Glastonbury several times and it was a special day. This review is spot on. The band can still put on an epic show when the mood strikes them
[www.collectorsmusicreviews.com]
If you want to see the show it is not that hard to get a copy.
I liken this performance (and the Hyde Park shows) to Muhammad Ali's epic victories over George Foreman in Zaire in 1974 and Joe Frazier in Manilla a year later. Without those two victories Ali wouldn't be recognized today as the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. To earn the title of "greatest of all time," you really have to do something extraordinary, and do it for a long time. What the Stones did at Glastonbury and Hyde Park last summer (at roughly 70 years of age) and what they have achieved overall over the last half century is truly remarkable. They have now outlasted the Beatles by 44 years! They have earned the title of: Greatest Rock 'N Roll Band Of All Time!
Stones On Fire In A Blaze Of Glory
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
ThickerThanThieves
()
Date: May 10, 2014 06:16
So, yes, all things considered, '50 And Counting and Stones On Fire are the greatest Stones tours of all time.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Hendrik
()
Date: May 10, 2014 14:31
Yes, the 1972/1973 was an amazing tour: Rolling Stones in their most pure form.
Stones are considered at their very best in the late sixties and early seventies, also because of their released records, true masterpieces, in that time. Looking back now my favourite tours (and the concerts I like to listen to) is everything between 1969 and 1982 and yes, my personal highlight is the 1972 tour.
Musical wise they never topped that area again but the 1999 tour came close and the 2012 concerts surprised me in a positive way a lot too.
16 days and then Oslo, let's see what happens then...can't wait...
Hendrik Mulder
Stones are considered at their very best in the late sixties and early seventies, also because of their released records, true masterpieces, in that time. Looking back now my favourite tours (and the concerts I like to listen to) is everything between 1969 and 1982 and yes, my personal highlight is the 1972 tour.
Musical wise they never topped that area again but the 1999 tour came close and the 2012 concerts surprised me in a positive way a lot too.
16 days and then Oslo, let's see what happens then...can't wait...
Hendrik Mulder
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 10, 2014 14:47
Quote
Hendrik
Yes, the 1972/1973 was an amazing tour: Rolling Stones in their most pure form.
Hardly their most pure form.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Hendrik
()
Date: May 10, 2014 15:11
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Hendrik
Yes, the 1972/1973 was an amazing tour: Rolling Stones in their most pure form.
Hardly their most pure form.
Just my opinion....
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 10, 2014 15:17
Quote
Hendrik
Just my opinion....
About as pure as they are now.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: May 10, 2014 15:26
Quote
HendrikQuote
His MajestyQuote
Hendrik
Yes, the 1972/1973 was an amazing tour: Rolling Stones in their most pure form.
Hardly their most pure form.
Just my opinion....
Could the term "paradigmatic" cover what you intended to state?
In my view, by the way, it is paradigmatic for the Stones almost never to be pure as such.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: May 10, 2014 16:04
Quote
Hendrik
Yes, the 1972/1973 was an amazing tour: Rolling Stones in their most pure form.
Hendrik Mulder
75 78 and 81 were nice isotopes...
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
MarkSchneider
()
Date: May 10, 2014 16:06
Paradigmatic analysis :
[en.wikipedia.org]
As simple as that
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-10 16:07 by MarkSchneider.
[en.wikipedia.org]
As simple as that
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-10 16:07 by MarkSchneider.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: May 10, 2014 17:10
If anything, I thought more about (and in a popular way)
[en.wikipedia.org]
especially the term "paradigm shifts", once again in a simplified way.
There I thought that the term "paradigm shift" gives as a taste of what a few rock bands achieved during some parts of their career. That is, they contributed to largely change the definitions of what rock (and subgenres) is, was or might be. The said years was within the period when the Stones themselves probably most of all of their periods might be said to contribute to that.
Therefore, I suggested "paradigmatic" as an alternative to "pure", due to the objections that can be raised to "pure" characterizing Stones music from almost any period. Maybe I ought to have proposed "quintessential" instead, if "paradigmatical" feels so totally unfamiliar also in a popular sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-10 17:11 by Witness.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
MarkSchneider
()
Date: May 11, 2014 13:48
Witness, beside teasing, I agree with you.
In the end of 1969 and during 4 years, the Rolling Stones set a new standard in RnR shows. A shift in mastery and excellence.
A solid pattern, a new way of playing their warhorses (JJF, SFTD...), with elements of creativity and inspiration, hence danger. A paradigm shift! The Rolling Stones had a signature, that nobody on earth could mimic or approach. (though I was not fond of the use of a brass section, but it's another matter)
The genius of Jagger and Richards (in top form, at least at the beginning), the stellar play of Taylor plus a solid team. The Rolling Stones were gods.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 13:55 by MarkSchneider.
In the end of 1969 and during 4 years, the Rolling Stones set a new standard in RnR shows. A shift in mastery and excellence.
A solid pattern, a new way of playing their warhorses (JJF, SFTD...), with elements of creativity and inspiration, hence danger. A paradigm shift! The Rolling Stones had a signature, that nobody on earth could mimic or approach. (though I was not fond of the use of a brass section, but it's another matter)
The genius of Jagger and Richards (in top form, at least at the beginning), the stellar play of Taylor plus a solid team. The Rolling Stones were gods.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 13:55 by MarkSchneider.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 14:11
Musically it was more a case of they caught up with what other bands had already been doing circa 1966 - 1969. The shift in onstage musicality, as far as pop/rock bands go, mostly happened during the stones absence from touring.
Hendrix, The Who, Cream, Led Zeppelin, King Crimson etc all brought a higher level of musicianship and creativity, emotion, improvisation and inspiration.
in 1969 King Crimson in particular brought a new level of gravitas, musicianship, improvisation, emotion and danger to the stage that hadn't really been there before. Again speaking only of the world of pop/rock.
Regarding the stones, there is an obvious shift by the time of R&R Circus, but Brian is holding them back there. Keith had to make a guitar orchestra on his own, the third man inspiration is missing.
it's fair to say that the Taylor years onstage are a more musical and emotional affair than the Jones years. The Jones years are more about respecting and recreating the R&B sound, knocking out the hits with excitement and vigour.
A deeper emotional factor begins to creep in during 1966 with lady jane and then in 1967 with lady Jane and Ruby Tuesday.
I have more yo say, but must dash off to watch Aberdeen play Motherwell.
Hendrix, The Who, Cream, Led Zeppelin, King Crimson etc all brought a higher level of musicianship and creativity, emotion, improvisation and inspiration.
in 1969 King Crimson in particular brought a new level of gravitas, musicianship, improvisation, emotion and danger to the stage that hadn't really been there before. Again speaking only of the world of pop/rock.
Regarding the stones, there is an obvious shift by the time of R&R Circus, but Brian is holding them back there. Keith had to make a guitar orchestra on his own, the third man inspiration is missing.
it's fair to say that the Taylor years onstage are a more musical and emotional affair than the Jones years. The Jones years are more about respecting and recreating the R&B sound, knocking out the hits with excitement and vigour.
A deeper emotional factor begins to creep in during 1966 with lady jane and then in 1967 with lady Jane and Ruby Tuesday.
I have more yo say, but must dash off to watch Aberdeen play Motherwell.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 11, 2014 14:18
Good stuff, His Majesty. Forget the match and just continue...
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: May 11, 2014 16:10
Quote
Doxa
Good stuff, His Majesty. Forget the match and just continue...
- Doxa
Easy Doxa, allow the guy some rest and recreation.
Quote His M: "it's fair to say that the Taylor years onstage are a more musical and emotional affair than the Jones years."
And how about the Wood years onstage?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 16:13 by kleermaker.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: May 11, 2014 17:00
An OT-answer:
Two responses:
1) If one follows and supports one football club's team, one has to follow up when possible. You can't only omit it.
2) To do that, often involves everything else than rest. REST!?!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 17:03 by Witness.
Quote
kleermakerQuote
Doxa
Good stuff, His Majesty. Forget the match and just continue...
- Doxa
Easy Doxa, allow the guy some rest and recreation.
............
Two responses:
1) If one follows and supports one football club's team, one has to follow up when possible. You can't only omit it.
2) To do that, often involves everything else than rest. REST!?!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 17:03 by Witness.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2014 17:13
Is Angie live in 1973 more musical and emotional than Lady Jane live in 1966? Than Beast Of Burden in 1978?
I'm not answering that one, merely putting things in perspective. There is gold in all Stones eras.
I'm not answering that one, merely putting things in perspective. There is gold in all Stones eras.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
FanOfGRARBITW
()
Date: May 11, 2014 17:49
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Is Angie live in 1973 more musical and emotional than Lady Jane live in 1966? Than Beast Of Burden in 1978?
I'm not answering that one, merely putting things in perspective. There is gold in all Stones eras.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: May 11, 2014 18:17
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Is Angie live in 1973 more musical and emotional than Lady Jane live in 1966? Than Beast Of Burden in 1978?
I'm not answering that one, merely putting things in perspective. There is gold in all Stones eras.
I agree about the gold.
But apart from that, I am afraid that your response obscures the discovery His Majesty highlighted, as a novelty also in his understanding, I wonder, and enters here. If we take away certain soul/gospel songs, I find it highly relevant the identification of a new emotional trait of the Stones at times in certain songs in 1966 and 1967. In fact, on a personal level, if I may argue that way, it was this emotional trait as added to everything else that the Stones had got, which made me finally identify without reserve with the band. "She Smiled Sweetly most of all. For now they could supply me with everything, me, who with the arrival of the American version of OUT OF OUR HEADS originally was more engaged in that album's two soul/gospel songs than "Satisfaction".
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2014 18:34
Songs like As Tears Go By and Play With Fire showed a pretty good dose of maturity and musicality for those young Dartford-kids early on
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 18:40
Quote
kleermaker
Quote His M: "it's fair to say that the Taylor years onstage are a more musical and emotional affair than the Jones years."
And how about the Wood years onstage?
They were capable and sometimes did convey emotion during the Wood years, but in 70's and 80's I think the clowning around damaged their music, same with the overly slick presentation, but scattered playing of later years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-11 19:22 by His Majesty.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 18:43
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Songs like As Tears Go By and Play With Fire showed a pretty good dose of maturity and musicality for those young Dartford-kids early on
Talking about onstage.
They were a tight wonderful unit musically from the start, but it's not till 1966 that the more melancholy side of things really begins to come in to their live sound.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: May 11, 2014 19:01
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Songs like As Tears Go By and Play With Fire showed a pretty good dose of maturity and musicality for those young Dartford-kids early on
I acknowledge "As Tears Go by". But wonder if the song at the outset was made with themselves in mind.
.
.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 19:18
Continuing from earlier post...
Intersting thing is that during the stones absence from the stage Taylor is part of the ongoing shift towards a deeper music onstage, and it's something he clearly brought to the live stones. They had it already of course to some extent, but Taylor was a catalyst that allowed them to go deeper and develop that onstage.
Kinda ot for this exact topic, but I compiled a 15 song stones 1963 playlist starting with IBC demos and finishing with their 1963 EP...
Brian's harmonica playing is acting much like Taylors guitar does 10 years later. It's different of course, but the role is similar. Ostinnato like motifs, counter melodies and burning concise solos.
Intersting thing is that during the stones absence from the stage Taylor is part of the ongoing shift towards a deeper music onstage, and it's something he clearly brought to the live stones. They had it already of course to some extent, but Taylor was a catalyst that allowed them to go deeper and develop that onstage.
Kinda ot for this exact topic, but I compiled a 15 song stones 1963 playlist starting with IBC demos and finishing with their 1963 EP...
Brian's harmonica playing is acting much like Taylors guitar does 10 years later. It's different of course, but the role is similar. Ostinnato like motifs, counter melodies and burning concise solos.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 19:52
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Is Angie live in 1973 more musical and emotional than Lady Jane live in 1966? Than Beast Of Burden in 1978?
I'm not answering that one, merely putting things in perspective. There is gold in all Stones eras.
The gold is more abundant in the first two eras though.
To be fair to Jones era, it was a full on battle to even try to make the stage a place for gentler more melancholic emotion. The crazed audiences and technology were both things that hindered progress and focus on the music, but yet they still kicked the proverbial arse! The deeper stuff is quite abundant and potent on their studio recordings, especially from Aftermath to Beggars Banquet.
Emotion as deep as those conveyed via studio versions of, for example, Ruby Tuesday and No Expectations wasn't really an achievable goal onstage during the teenie bopper years.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2014 19:56
Good points about Brian's harp playing! I reckon Aberdeen won? 
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 20:12
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Good points about Brian's harp playing! I reckon Aberdeen won?
No, they lost 1 - 0 in final seconds due to a terrible referee , lost 2nd place in league, £250'000 and will now have a shorter break between seasons before the European games start.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2014 20:16
That's a shame..
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 20:23
Quote
DandelionPowderman
That's a shame..
... a bit, but it's their own fault for being wishy washy since they won a trophy a few months back. Been 2nd since xmas, lost that place in the final minute of the last game of the season.
Still, we won a trophy this season for first time in 19 years.
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2014 21:53
As a Liverpool-supporter I know how it feels losing something at the end of the season...
Re: The Last Great Stones' Tour - Was it 1972-73?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 11, 2014 22:52
Quote
DandelionPowderman
As a Liverpool-supporter I know how it feels losing something at the end of the season...
Pfft, long distance supporter of a team from somewhere yah weren't born in?
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