Tell Me :
Talk
More or less deserved than Mick's?
Either way congrats to him!
I wouldn't. They know they've had soft sales for past US tours, none of this is really surprising. Sure, maybe they thought news of a farewell would drum up some interest that probably ended up being cancelled out by all the drummer snafu stuff, but they're not cancelling their farewell tour. They'll paper the houses as they have on previous tours, but there ain't no way they're going out with a whimper as a band with a cancellation. If they did, holy hell is that embarrassing, way more than the last month or so has been for them.
I mean, at this point, its essentially like the Kennedy Center Honors that all just honor rock icons like candy. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they've been dishing them out for awhile now.
To be fair the rock stars of the 20th-century are some of the biggest icons that we have in the West
If you're referring to the Honours "dished out" in the UK, then I really have to disagree. It's a strange system, and one that embeds and reflects the indefensible class structure in the UK , but no-one in their right mind could describe UK Honours as being "dished out".
Captain Corella
Some of these shows aren't mere "soft sales" but wide open venues from front to back. Look at Seattle. Some enterprising folks turned some $30 blue dots into $80 but otherwise even the first Hollywood Bowl show is a disaster.
Embarrassing to cancel but I don't think they are looking to lose money to make a point either. And somebody kick some of that paper my way.
Me. I was there. Things like this that are (literally) souvenirs of an event I attended certainly get an inside track being bought.
(54 years ago, so no huge memories of the event. Faces did not please me one iota. Parking was a problem. My friends & I were very distracted by the way a burger stall we were looking down on was "cooking" burgers. Freezer to bun in very few seconds.)
Captain Corella
I am. Already pre-ordered the colored vinyl.
I guess Roger was knighted for his charity work. Definitely not for his bandleading skills or use of backing tracks live.
You are exactly right. There's no need to "guess". The citation (Google is your friend) explicitly says that. It's worth comparing the citation with the one that's also around for Stevie Winwood. He got an MBE for 'Services to Music', which is definitely fair enough, but that highlights the reason why Roger got his "K". (For those not familiar, the UK slang term for someone getting a Knighthood is that they just got their "K".)
Captain Corella
Yes indeed. Rather than rely upon an untrustworthy AI based summary of search results I checked back to the Official Publication.
In the UK the OFFICIAL PUBLICATION is called The London Gazette (established in 1665), and that's where the monarch and the govt of the day publish Official Notices.
This link takes you to a June 2002 (23yrs ago!!!) edition.
[www.thegazette.co.uk]
Interesting that Peter Blake (he did the Sgt Pepper cover) is in the same list.
(Small browser warning. Before posting links I have captured I normally check that the cut&paste is right, and do it in a browser other than the one I normally use. So the link WORKS in Firefox, does not work in Opera, but worked in Chrome. Go figure.)
Captain Corella
Thanks Captain
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-17 13:35 by Glimmerest.
It does appear and has for many years that it is Yoko (Roger) who runs that band.
Pete's just playing his parts and collecting a paycheck.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: June 13, 2025 23:43
Ringo Starr’s son Zak Starkey: Roger Daltrey made a mistake and blamed me. A week later, I got the sack
The drummer talks about his dramatic fallout with The Who frontman, his new rock supergroup and asking Bob Dylan for a job
James Hall
13 June 2025
Zak Starkey photographed for The Telegraph at Sanctum Hotel, London W1, earlier this week/Rii Schroer
Despite being the son of a Beatle, Starkey insists he’s not wealthy. As well as his drumming projects he has built a recording studio in Jamaica and co-launched the reggae label Trojan Jamaica, neither of which come cheaply. “And now I haven’t got a job,” he says wryly. The other Beatles progeny might have “loads of money because their dads are dead. James’s mum [Linda] is dead. Left him a lot of money. [But] my mum [Maureen Starkey, Starr’s first wife] died skint [in 1994] with a whole desk-full of brown envelopes that she never opened because she spent all her money on her friends.”
Aah, yes. The job. The Who saga runs something like this. In mid-April, two weeks after The Who played two Teenage Cancer Trust concerts at the Royal Albert Hall, the band said they’d made a “collective decision to part ways with Zak” after 30 years due to apparent issues with his drumming at those shows. Starkey said he was “surprised and saddened” by the decision. But days later, he was back in the fold after the resolution of what Townshend, 80, called “some communication issues”. “Zak made a few mistakes [at the Albert Hall] and he has apologised,” the band said. Yet on May 19, he was fired again, for the second time in a month.
He remains perplexed and saddened by it, not least because he says he turned down the megawatt Oasis tour because he was in The Who. Which he now isn’t.
So were he not in The Who, he would have played with Oasis? “Of course. Of course.”
What happened, precisely? “What happened was I got it right and Roger got it wrong,” Starkey claims. He’s talking about The Who’s performance of 1971 track The Song is Over at the second Albert Hall show.
The band don’t usually play it live and Starkey suggested they performed it as a “treat” for fans. But, he says, a combination of under-rehearsal (“they hate rehearsing”) and the fact that Daltrey, 81, “took a bit out” of the song because it was too long meant that, on the second night, “Roger [came] in a bar early”.
There were no backstage fireworks. Such is the way with live music. The Who are an incendiary live act; Starkey says something “disintegrates” every third gig and the band just start again. But, seven days later, “I got a call from Bill [Curbishley], the manager, [and] he says, ‘It’s my unfortunate duty to inform you’ – it’s like Porridge or something – ‘that you won’t be needed from now on. Roger says you dropped some beats.’” It was clear that Daltrey thought that Starkey was in the wrong. “I watched the show and I can’t find any dropped beats. Then Pete had to go along with it because Pete’s had 60 years of arguing with Roger,” says the drummer.
Following the sacking, Townshend phoned Starkey to ask if he was prepared to fight to get his place back. Starkey said no. But a week later when Townshend called again, he had changed his mind. “I said, ‘I want my gig back.’” He returned, having been forced to admit – he says – that he dropped two beats. But the reunion was short-lived. “Two weeks later it was like, ‘Roger says he can’t work with you no more, and we’d like you to issue another statement saying you’re leaving to do your other projects’ and I just didn’t do it because I wasn’t leaving [of my own volition].” Why did Daltrey feel he couldn’t work with you again? “They didn’t specify.”
He says Daltrey later told him that “you’re not fired, you’re retired because you’ve got so many other projects”, one of which is Mantra. Despite the situation, Starkey regrets the way that some fans sided with him and piled into Daltrey and Townshend. He calls The Who his “family”, which is entirely understandable given he’s been with them since 1996. And he says he harbours no ill-will towards anyone. “I don’t blame anyone. I blame The Who because they’re unpredictable, aggressive and f-----g insane,” he says. And that’s why he loves them. He’d go back in a heartbeat.
Tantalisingly, things with The Who may not be over yet. “I spoke to Roger last week and he said, ‘Don’t take your drums out of [The Who’s] warehouse yet in case we need you.’” Starkey leans forward. “I said, ‘Best let me know.’”
Full interview > [www.telegraph.co.uk]
The drummer talks about his dramatic fallout with The Who frontman, his new rock supergroup and asking Bob Dylan for a job
James Hall
13 June 2025
Zak Starkey photographed for The Telegraph at Sanctum Hotel, London W1, earlier this week/Rii Schroer
Despite being the son of a Beatle, Starkey insists he’s not wealthy. As well as his drumming projects he has built a recording studio in Jamaica and co-launched the reggae label Trojan Jamaica, neither of which come cheaply. “And now I haven’t got a job,” he says wryly. The other Beatles progeny might have “loads of money because their dads are dead. James’s mum [Linda] is dead. Left him a lot of money. [But] my mum [Maureen Starkey, Starr’s first wife] died skint [in 1994] with a whole desk-full of brown envelopes that she never opened because she spent all her money on her friends.”
Aah, yes. The job. The Who saga runs something like this. In mid-April, two weeks after The Who played two Teenage Cancer Trust concerts at the Royal Albert Hall, the band said they’d made a “collective decision to part ways with Zak” after 30 years due to apparent issues with his drumming at those shows. Starkey said he was “surprised and saddened” by the decision. But days later, he was back in the fold after the resolution of what Townshend, 80, called “some communication issues”. “Zak made a few mistakes [at the Albert Hall] and he has apologised,” the band said. Yet on May 19, he was fired again, for the second time in a month.
He remains perplexed and saddened by it, not least because he says he turned down the megawatt Oasis tour because he was in The Who. Which he now isn’t.
So were he not in The Who, he would have played with Oasis? “Of course. Of course.”
What happened, precisely? “What happened was I got it right and Roger got it wrong,” Starkey claims. He’s talking about The Who’s performance of 1971 track The Song is Over at the second Albert Hall show.
The band don’t usually play it live and Starkey suggested they performed it as a “treat” for fans. But, he says, a combination of under-rehearsal (“they hate rehearsing”) and the fact that Daltrey, 81, “took a bit out” of the song because it was too long meant that, on the second night, “Roger [came] in a bar early”.
There were no backstage fireworks. Such is the way with live music. The Who are an incendiary live act; Starkey says something “disintegrates” every third gig and the band just start again. But, seven days later, “I got a call from Bill [Curbishley], the manager, [and] he says, ‘It’s my unfortunate duty to inform you’ – it’s like Porridge or something – ‘that you won’t be needed from now on. Roger says you dropped some beats.’” It was clear that Daltrey thought that Starkey was in the wrong. “I watched the show and I can’t find any dropped beats. Then Pete had to go along with it because Pete’s had 60 years of arguing with Roger,” says the drummer.
Following the sacking, Townshend phoned Starkey to ask if he was prepared to fight to get his place back. Starkey said no. But a week later when Townshend called again, he had changed his mind. “I said, ‘I want my gig back.’” He returned, having been forced to admit – he says – that he dropped two beats. But the reunion was short-lived. “Two weeks later it was like, ‘Roger says he can’t work with you no more, and we’d like you to issue another statement saying you’re leaving to do your other projects’ and I just didn’t do it because I wasn’t leaving [of my own volition].” Why did Daltrey feel he couldn’t work with you again? “They didn’t specify.”
He says Daltrey later told him that “you’re not fired, you’re retired because you’ve got so many other projects”, one of which is Mantra. Despite the situation, Starkey regrets the way that some fans sided with him and piled into Daltrey and Townshend. He calls The Who his “family”, which is entirely understandable given he’s been with them since 1996. And he says he harbours no ill-will towards anyone. “I don’t blame anyone. I blame The Who because they’re unpredictable, aggressive and f-----g insane,” he says. And that’s why he loves them. He’d go back in a heartbeat.
Tantalisingly, things with The Who may not be over yet. “I spoke to Roger last week and he said, ‘Don’t take your drums out of [The Who’s] warehouse yet in case we need you.’” Starkey leans forward. “I said, ‘Best let me know.’”
Full interview > [www.telegraph.co.uk]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Dan
()
Date: June 14, 2025 00:01
I would be surprised if the tour happens at this point. Even at $30 the Hollywood Bowl tickets just aren't selling.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
grzegorz67
()
Date: June 14, 2025 00:48
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Glimmerest
()
Date: June 14, 2025 01:18
Quote
grzegorz67
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
More or less deserved than Mick's?
Either way congrats to him!
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: June 14, 2025 01:40
I’m with Keef when it comes to that family but it’s nice to see Roger get acknowledged for his work with the TCT over the years.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
RollingFreak
()
Date: June 14, 2025 02:09
Quote
Dan
I would be surprised if the tour happens at this point. Even at $30 the Hollywood Bowl tickets just aren't selling.
I wouldn't. They know they've had soft sales for past US tours, none of this is really surprising. Sure, maybe they thought news of a farewell would drum up some interest that probably ended up being cancelled out by all the drummer snafu stuff, but they're not cancelling their farewell tour. They'll paper the houses as they have on previous tours, but there ain't no way they're going out with a whimper as a band with a cancellation. If they did, holy hell is that embarrassing, way more than the last month or so has been for them.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
RollingFreak
()
Date: June 14, 2025 02:14
Quote
grzegorz67
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
I mean, at this point, its essentially like the Kennedy Center Honors that all just honor rock icons like candy. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they've been dishing them out for awhile now.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Glimmerest
()
Date: June 14, 2025 02:16
Quote
RollingFreakQuote
grzegorz67
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
I mean, at this point, its essentially like the Kennedy Center Honors that all just honor rock icons like candy. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they've been dishing them out for awhile now.
To be fair the rock stars of the 20th-century are some of the biggest icons that we have in the West
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: June 15, 2025 05:28
Quote
RollingFreakQuote
grzegorz67
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
I mean, at this point, its essentially like the Kennedy Center Honors that all just honor rock icons like candy. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they've been dishing them out for awhile now.
If you're referring to the Honours "dished out" in the UK, then I really have to disagree. It's a strange system, and one that embeds and reflects the indefensible class structure in the UK , but no-one in their right mind could describe UK Honours as being "dished out".
Captain Corella
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Dan
()
Date: June 15, 2025 18:50
Quote
RollingFreakQuote
Dan
I would be surprised if the tour happens at this point. Even at $30 the Hollywood Bowl tickets just aren't selling.
I wouldn't. They know they've had soft sales for past US tours, none of this is really surprising. Sure, maybe they thought news of a farewell would drum up some interest that probably ended up being cancelled out by all the drummer snafu stuff, but they're not cancelling their farewell tour. They'll paper the houses as they have on previous tours, but there ain't no way they're going out with a whimper as a band with a cancellation. If they did, holy hell is that embarrassing, way more than the last month or so has been for them.
Some of these shows aren't mere "soft sales" but wide open venues from front to back. Look at Seattle. Some enterprising folks turned some $30 blue dots into $80 but otherwise even the first Hollywood Bowl show is a disaster.
Embarrassing to cancel but I don't think they are looking to lose money to make a point either. And somebody kick some of that paper my way.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
onestep
()
Date: June 15, 2025 20:58
Well you can see during this video, that Roger is obviously having technical problems with his in ear monitors, and something with Zak and the beat --- Pete looks concerned a few times during the piece -- about how Rog is out of time. There are people here that know much more about the technical end of live performances than I do -- The recent Teenage Cancer Trust concert version of WGFA.
During the middle of the song Zak is looking around for something, and the bass player is looking at Zak like something unusual is going on --- Rog is really pissed by the end of the song, and giving the sound people a piece of his mind on the backstage mic.
video: [www.youtube.com]
During the middle of the song Zak is looking around for something, and the bass player is looking at Zak like something unusual is going on --- Rog is really pissed by the end of the song, and giving the sound people a piece of his mind on the backstage mic.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
peoplewitheyes
()
Date: June 16, 2025 01:07
Who's excited about the Oval Oval 1971'71 release?
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: June 16, 2025 01:36
Me. I was there. Things like this that are (literally) souvenirs of an event I attended certainly get an inside track being bought.
(54 years ago, so no huge memories of the event. Faces did not please me one iota. Parking was a problem. My friends & I were very distracted by the way a burger stall we were looking down on was "cooking" burgers. Freezer to bun in very few seconds.)
Captain Corella
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
NashvilleBlues
()
Date: June 16, 2025 02:23
I am. Already pre-ordered the colored vinyl.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Glimmerest
()
Date: June 16, 2025 09:51
Drummer Zak Starkey calls the Who 'f---ing insane' — but confirms he would return after being fired twice
He really wants his ex back I guess...
He really wants his ex back I guess...
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
mosthigh
()
Date: June 17, 2025 01:36
Quote
CaptainCorellaQuote
RollingFreakQuote
grzegorz67
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
I mean, at this point, its essentially like the Kennedy Center Honors that all just honor rock icons like candy. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they've been dishing them out for awhile now.
If you're referring to the Honours "dished out" in the UK, then I really have to disagree. It's a strange system, and one that embeds and reflects the indefensible class structure in the UK , but no-one in their right mind could describe UK Honours as being "dished out".
I guess Roger was knighted for his charity work. Definitely not for his bandleading skills or use of backing tracks live.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: June 17, 2025 02:06
Quote
mosthighQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
RollingFreakQuote
grzegorz67
Roger's been knighted!!!
Arise Sir Roger Daltrey!
They dish them out like confetti these days...
[www.standard.co.uk]
I mean, at this point, its essentially like the Kennedy Center Honors that all just honor rock icons like candy. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they've been dishing them out for awhile now.
If you're referring to the Honours "dished out" in the UK, then I really have to disagree. It's a strange system, and one that embeds and reflects the indefensible class structure in the UK , but no-one in their right mind could describe UK Honours as being "dished out".
I guess Roger was knighted for his charity work. Definitely not for his bandleading skills or use of backing tracks live.
You are exactly right. There's no need to "guess". The citation (Google is your friend) explicitly says that. It's worth comparing the citation with the one that's also around for Stevie Winwood. He got an MBE for 'Services to Music', which is definitely fair enough, but that highlights the reason why Roger got his "K". (For those not familiar, the UK slang term for someone getting a Knighthood is that they just got their "K".)
Captain Corella
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Glimmerest
()
Date: June 17, 2025 09:00
Mick got his "K" for his service to music too right?
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: June 17, 2025 09:51
Quote
Glimmerest
Mick got his "K" for his service to music too right?
Yes indeed. Rather than rely upon an untrustworthy AI based summary of search results I checked back to the Official Publication.
In the UK the OFFICIAL PUBLICATION is called The London Gazette (established in 1665), and that's where the monarch and the govt of the day publish Official Notices.
This link takes you to a June 2002 (23yrs ago!!!) edition.
[www.thegazette.co.uk]
Interesting that Peter Blake (he did the Sgt Pepper cover) is in the same list.
(Small browser warning. Before posting links I have captured I normally check that the cut&paste is right, and do it in a browser other than the one I normally use. So the link WORKS in Firefox, does not work in Opera, but worked in Chrome. Go figure.)
Captain Corella
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Glimmerest
()
Date: June 17, 2025 13:34
Quote
CaptainCorellaQuote
Glimmerest
Mick got his "K" for his service to music too right?
Yes indeed. Rather than rely upon an untrustworthy AI based summary of search results I checked back to the Official Publication.
In the UK the OFFICIAL PUBLICATION is called The London Gazette (established in 1665), and that's where the monarch and the govt of the day publish Official Notices.
This link takes you to a June 2002 (23yrs ago!!!) edition.
[www.thegazette.co.uk]
Interesting that Peter Blake (he did the Sgt Pepper cover) is in the same list.
(Small browser warning. Before posting links I have captured I normally check that the cut&paste is right, and do it in a browser other than the one I normally use. So the link WORKS in Firefox, does not work in Opera, but worked in Chrome. Go figure.)
Thanks Captain
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-17 13:35 by Glimmerest.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Glimmerest
()
Date: June 17, 2025 13:36
https://www.vulture.com/article/ringo-starr-slams-the-who-roger-daltrey-that-little-man.html]Ringo Starr on the Who's Roger Daltrey: 'I’ve never liked the way that little man runs that band'[/url]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-17 13:37 by Glimmerest.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-17 13:37 by Glimmerest.
OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: June 17, 2025 14:46
ZAK STARKEY ON BEING FIRED, REHIRED, AND FIRED AGAIN BY THE WHO: ‘THESE GUYS ARE F-CKIN’ INSANE’
The drummer also talks about missing out on the Oasis reunion tour and his new supergroup Mantra of the Cosmos, who have a new song with Noel Gallagher
By Andy Greene
June 16, 2025
Peter Byrne/PA Images/Getty Images
The past few months have been quite a head-snapping time for Zak Starkey. The roller coaster began April 16 when the Who fired the drummer after three decades of solid work (“The band made a collective decision to part ways with Zak”), continued three days later when Pete Townshend announced Starkey was back in (“Zak is not being asked to step down from the Who”), and climaxed a month later when Townshend reversed himself (“After many years of great work on drums from Zak, the time has come for a change”).
In a new interview with Rolling Stone, Starkey says he still isn’t sure exactly where he stands with Townshend and Roger Daltrey, who are kicking off a world tour July 20 in Italy. “I spoke to Roger last week,” Starkey says via Zoom from his home studio. “He said, ‘Don’t take your drums out of the warehouse, we might be calling you.’ What the @#$%&? These guys are @#$%&’ insane! I’ve been fired more times than Keith Moon in ten days.”
At this point, Starkey truly has no clue what’s happening with the Who, even if the safe money is on Scott Devours playing drums on their upcoming tour as planned. Starkey is focusing most of his attention on his new Britpop supergroup Mantra of the Cosmos, which features Shaun Ryder and Mark “Bez” Berry of the Happy Mondays, and Andy Bell of Oasis. Their new track “Domino Bones (Gets Dangerous)” — with special guest Noel Gallagher — just dropped, and more songs are on the way.
When you first head about Oasis reforming, did you hope they’d ask you?
I was in the Who. And last time they asked me, I was in the Who, and it got a bit weird. But this time, I talked to them both. I did tell them both on text, “Why the f*ck aren’t I in your band, man, helping make it the greatest rock band in the world again?”
What did they say?
They said, “You’re in the Who.” And Liam is happy working with Joey [Waronker] since they’ve been working with him for a while now.
In the Who, was it tougher to please Roger or please Pete?
Financially, philosophically, or sexually?
Musically.
Well, it’s really hard to answer because I don’t want to make anyone sound like they don’t know what the @#$%& is going on in music, but with me and Pete, we catch fire. Pete calls it “catching fire.” When we start, it’s almost like be-bop with two Fender stacks. He’s Charlie Parker with a Stratocaster. He kicks everything off. I don’t listen to the bass player much. I listen to Roger. And in my left in-ear is just Pete, nothing else.
If he turns his tone down a bit, I can hear everything he does. And I can read his glute. He used to stand in front of me and stare in my eyes. That was kind of intimidating. But after about two weeks, he goes, “Now we can communicate musically because we’d been doing that.” I can stare at the back of your head, and it still works.
Last year, Pete told Mojo that if was in charge of the band lineup, he’d get Simon Phillips on drums and Pino Palladino on bass. Did that upset you?
Look at my Instagram. I texted him and said, “You made me sound like the last chicken in the shop, dude.” He said, “I meant my solo group. I want you in the Who.” I said, “Are you going to call them up and change it? You aren’t, are you?”
So he sent me all these lovely messages going, “You’re the greatest guy for the Who.” And he said he loved what me and my wife had done in Jamaica with our group. And he loved what the Mantras were doing. I posted the first part about how I’m great in the Who. And then I thought to myself, “You’ve already crossed the line, so you might as well post the other part where he says you’re great at everything.”
The next morning, I got this text that read, “Have you gone mad? What’s wrong with you? What the f*ck is happening?” I said, “You haven’t read it, right? Someone told you.” I sent him a screenshot. He goes, “OK, leave it. That’s cool.” And I said, “It really helps since I’m a nepo baby.” He goes, “I’m a nepo baby too,” since his dad was a bandleader. He goes, “I get it.”
He’s the coolest f*ckin’ guy. During that whole time recently, Pete was a tower of strength to me. What an amazing guy.
When you rehearsed with the band for the Royal Albert Hall a few months back, did things seem OK? Was everything normal?
You’re f*ckin’ with me. There’s nothing normal about them. These are the most crazy … you’ve got an abstract, conceptualist artist who thinks the band is an art installation. And then you’ve got another guy who is a street fighter. It’s all very weird.
But if you look at the group ever since they started, it’s the craziest group. And they’ve undertaken the crazy ideas, whether the rest of the guys understood it or not. Pete has taken so much on himself. He’ll lock himself away for two years, come away with Quadrophenia, and go, “You guys can just play on top.”
You’re dealing with two very, very different people. And when me and Pete catch fire, probably anyone’s going to get lost. And probably anyone will. But we won’t. When we’re onstage, it’s like we’re f*cking. Offstage it can be a little awkward after those 15 minutes. But onstage, It’s like, “Cigarette, darling?”
What happened at the Royal Albert Hall. I know it was your idea to play “The Song Is Over.”
I’ve already got my gravestone. It says, “Zak Starkey, the song is over.”
What happened during that song? Roger stopped it after a verse.
He came in four bars early. And I just sent him an e-mail going, “I watched you on TV last night, you were off.” It’s 30 years in the group. It’s like a family. But he came in four bars early. And he just asked for the drums to be turned up, and he couldn’t hear the piano.
But I love Roger. He never misses a note. His voice is still so pure. It’s like a laser beam. He always nails it. They’ve not changed one key since the start of conceptual art as rock & roll.
But he just got lost. He blamed it on the drums being too loud, and then it got made into this huge social media thing. And it freaked him out and he’s going around doing solo shows, and saying it’s “fake news.” But it wasn’t me. I was in the car and gone before they finished the last acoustic song. There was no argument in the dressing room. Nothing. I was halfway home by the time they finished.
You were fired a few weeks later. What happened?
I got fired.
Why?
I dropped two beats. I’ve watched that film three times. I’m looking on the floor, and I can’t see it. If I drop two beats, where the f*ck are they?
Did this supposedly happen during “The Song Is Over” or a different song?
I’ve got no idea. It was all a bit vague. It was just like, “You’re getting fired.” And Pete had to hang in there with Rog because I think it was…I don’t know. I’m not going to name names or who did what. But Pete called me and said, “Are you strong enough to fight for your job back?” I said, “I’m not strong enough to have you do it for me. I don’t want you doing it.”
And then a week later, Pete called me and said, “How do you feel now?” I was like, [[i]sad, whiny voice[/i]] “Can I have my job back, please? Please can I have my job back?” They said, “OK, well you have to do a public apology and admit you dropped two beats.” So I did. I posted that little toy duck playing the snare drum. Pete called me and said, “Try again without the duck.”
I took the duck out, and I got my job back. And then 10 days later, I got a call saying “It’s never going to work. We want you to put out a statement saying you’re moving on to do your own thing.” And I said, “But I’m f*ckin’ not.” So I just left it and didn’t do it. It would be a lie. I’d never leave the Who. I love the Who.
I’d also never let down so many people who f*ckin’ stood up for me. They were like, “We saw that show. It wasn’t you.” But it got uncomfortable with that sort of negative attitude to Roger, and I didn’t want that to happen again. And then Pete did that statement that was so Pete. If you ask Pete what time it is at 2:00, he starts talking, and it’s 2:15 by the time he tells you. And so it was a bit like that.
And I just wrote over it. I wrote, “This is a load of bollocks, man. I got fired. I was asked to say this, and I’m not going to say it because it’s a f*ckin’ lie. Just because it’s the Who, I’m not going to let you walk all over me. We’ve had 30 years of great music. But I’m also not going to let it f*ck me up. I’m going to tell the truth.”
Within a week, me and Roger were talking on the phone. Pete and I text all the time. We text about other stuff. But with Roger, we always talk about the Who. He goes, “We haven’t fired you. We’ve retired you.” I go, “What’s the f*ckin’ difference? You’re the one at retirement age. What’s happening?”
He goes, “You’ve got so much going on with your other projects that we don’t think you’ve got time to dedicate to the Who.” I said, “You’re doing 17 shows, man, in like a month. I’ve just been to Jamaica for seven weeks. I finished everything. I’m completely available.” And Roger went, “Oh.” And I sort of left it there because I didn’t want to confuse things.
If it wasn’t your playing, what do you think caused this? Was it maybe financial?
Roger is quite renowned…. I once asked John Entwistle if Roger still had the money from the last Who tour. He goes, “He’s still got the money from the first one.”
Roger told you not to take your drums out of their storage in case they need you. You really think there’s a chance you’ll be on the tour after all this?
You have to ask Roger that since I don’t f*ckin’ know. These guys are f*ckin’ insane. It’s a good insane, and they have an addiction to friction.
I’ve never seen anything like this. In a very short period of time, you were fired, un-fired, fired again, and now they’re saying there’s a chance you’ll come back?
You know the greatest thing about it? My record came out yesterday, it’s f*ckin’ great, and everyone loves it. And everyone knows about it. [Laughs] And everyone wants to talk to me because of the Who.
You’ve gotten more press in the past few months than any other time in your history.
I’m the most famous drummer on the dole … welfare. I was on welfare as a teenager. I got thrown out of both parents houses simultaneously. I’ve got no idea why, but I was addicted to EVO-STIK glue at the time. My mom would be like, “What’s that? A beard?” And I was covered in glue.
It seems like you largely blame Roger for what happened.
I don’t blame anyone. I don’t hold any grudges. It’s the Who. Weirder shit than this has gone down. I’ve heard them say weirder shit than this. It’s the Who — the maddest band there’s ever been.
If they asked, you’d come back despite everything that’s happened?
Oh, man, of course I would. I said to Pete, “Thirty years. In the 30 years, you put the bar so f*ckin’ high. What the f*ck do I do now?” And I don’t even just mean musically, but lyrically. Because if you’re in a band, you’ve got to know what the words mean so you can transmit it properly. It’s really f*ckin’ important. I said to Pete, “What do you suggest?” I mean, the guy demands 200 percent every night, everything you’ve got. When you get back to the hotel, you’re not physically tired. You’re mentally tired from the whole conversation of it. It’s like them jazz players that are counting to 24 in five seconds.
Do you think Scott Devours is a good drummer?
I’ve never heard Scott, and I’ve never heard Joey. But I know they’re not mods, and that’s not a good sign.
The fans are definitely on your side. Many of them are upset about you not playing drums in Oasis or the Who.
At the end of the day, if you’ve got Liam doing his f*ckin’ hair on the Jumbotron and you got Pete windmillin’, every seat is going to be full.
The Who, you just don’t know what’s going to happen. If you think something is going to happen, the opposite happens. If you second guess Pete, he will play the opposite. You have to go with whatever you’re doing, and not think.
You’re not angry?
No. I’m sort of honored because they’re so crazy.
These things usually play out in private. This played out in public.
I did that. I didn’t want to get walked all over. It’s sort of like the Goons meet Stanley Unwin. It was the principal songwriter of the Who, and Todger Daltrey … I’m taking the piss … have decided to sack the drummer and bringing formal charges of over-playing, which is what I was told first. The first thing they said is that I was overplaying. “What? I’m just playing what that guy plays, no more.” I don’t think Roger liked that very much.
Then Pete did that weird thing and I went public…it’s because I’m not famous. I’m not a member of the Who. Who would want their problems? They asked me [to formally join the band] in 2006, and I was like, “I don’t want your problems, Pete. I don’t want to sit in a f*ckin’ room with Roger and you and get involved, and get a little badge that says, ‘Hey, I’m in the Who.’ I can’t work with anyone else, and the money is exactly the same.” But I didn’t feel it was right for them to force me to lie.
Who told you to lie? Management?
It was management. And when I told Roger that, he went, “Well, he’s his own man.” But he’s fired me twice. Was that his f*cking idea?
We’re talking about Bill Curbishley here?
Yeah. But Bill is my friend. He’s the fairest manager I’ve ever met. And he fired me twice, and told me I was retired. When I told Roger that, he gave me this bullshit about having all this work to do that I can’t do 17 gigs in the Who. Roger said that Bill is his own man. What a load of bullshit. What a lot of bollocks. He’s not his own man. You can’t start hiring and firing drummers because you’re the manager.
It’s the band’s choice.
Of course it is.
I’ll let you go in a second, but..
This is exciting, isn’t it? It’s like a Who album. It’s like a @#$%& roller coaster, man. It’s like Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy.
I’m seeing your dad tomorrow at Radio City.
I’m very proud of him standing up for me.
What did he say?
He said, “I’ve never liked the way that little man runs that band.”
Full interview > [www.rollingstone.com]
[archive.ph]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-19 16:34 by bye bye johnny.
The drummer also talks about missing out on the Oasis reunion tour and his new supergroup Mantra of the Cosmos, who have a new song with Noel Gallagher
By Andy Greene
June 16, 2025
Peter Byrne/PA Images/Getty Images
The past few months have been quite a head-snapping time for Zak Starkey. The roller coaster began April 16 when the Who fired the drummer after three decades of solid work (“The band made a collective decision to part ways with Zak”), continued three days later when Pete Townshend announced Starkey was back in (“Zak is not being asked to step down from the Who”), and climaxed a month later when Townshend reversed himself (“After many years of great work on drums from Zak, the time has come for a change”).
In a new interview with Rolling Stone, Starkey says he still isn’t sure exactly where he stands with Townshend and Roger Daltrey, who are kicking off a world tour July 20 in Italy. “I spoke to Roger last week,” Starkey says via Zoom from his home studio. “He said, ‘Don’t take your drums out of the warehouse, we might be calling you.’ What the @#$%&? These guys are @#$%&’ insane! I’ve been fired more times than Keith Moon in ten days.”
At this point, Starkey truly has no clue what’s happening with the Who, even if the safe money is on Scott Devours playing drums on their upcoming tour as planned. Starkey is focusing most of his attention on his new Britpop supergroup Mantra of the Cosmos, which features Shaun Ryder and Mark “Bez” Berry of the Happy Mondays, and Andy Bell of Oasis. Their new track “Domino Bones (Gets Dangerous)” — with special guest Noel Gallagher — just dropped, and more songs are on the way.
When you first head about Oasis reforming, did you hope they’d ask you?
I was in the Who. And last time they asked me, I was in the Who, and it got a bit weird. But this time, I talked to them both. I did tell them both on text, “Why the f*ck aren’t I in your band, man, helping make it the greatest rock band in the world again?”
What did they say?
They said, “You’re in the Who.” And Liam is happy working with Joey [Waronker] since they’ve been working with him for a while now.
In the Who, was it tougher to please Roger or please Pete?
Financially, philosophically, or sexually?
Musically.
Well, it’s really hard to answer because I don’t want to make anyone sound like they don’t know what the @#$%& is going on in music, but with me and Pete, we catch fire. Pete calls it “catching fire.” When we start, it’s almost like be-bop with two Fender stacks. He’s Charlie Parker with a Stratocaster. He kicks everything off. I don’t listen to the bass player much. I listen to Roger. And in my left in-ear is just Pete, nothing else.
If he turns his tone down a bit, I can hear everything he does. And I can read his glute. He used to stand in front of me and stare in my eyes. That was kind of intimidating. But after about two weeks, he goes, “Now we can communicate musically because we’d been doing that.” I can stare at the back of your head, and it still works.
Last year, Pete told Mojo that if was in charge of the band lineup, he’d get Simon Phillips on drums and Pino Palladino on bass. Did that upset you?
Look at my Instagram. I texted him and said, “You made me sound like the last chicken in the shop, dude.” He said, “I meant my solo group. I want you in the Who.” I said, “Are you going to call them up and change it? You aren’t, are you?”
So he sent me all these lovely messages going, “You’re the greatest guy for the Who.” And he said he loved what me and my wife had done in Jamaica with our group. And he loved what the Mantras were doing. I posted the first part about how I’m great in the Who. And then I thought to myself, “You’ve already crossed the line, so you might as well post the other part where he says you’re great at everything.”
The next morning, I got this text that read, “Have you gone mad? What’s wrong with you? What the f*ck is happening?” I said, “You haven’t read it, right? Someone told you.” I sent him a screenshot. He goes, “OK, leave it. That’s cool.” And I said, “It really helps since I’m a nepo baby.” He goes, “I’m a nepo baby too,” since his dad was a bandleader. He goes, “I get it.”
He’s the coolest f*ckin’ guy. During that whole time recently, Pete was a tower of strength to me. What an amazing guy.
When you rehearsed with the band for the Royal Albert Hall a few months back, did things seem OK? Was everything normal?
You’re f*ckin’ with me. There’s nothing normal about them. These are the most crazy … you’ve got an abstract, conceptualist artist who thinks the band is an art installation. And then you’ve got another guy who is a street fighter. It’s all very weird.
But if you look at the group ever since they started, it’s the craziest group. And they’ve undertaken the crazy ideas, whether the rest of the guys understood it or not. Pete has taken so much on himself. He’ll lock himself away for two years, come away with Quadrophenia, and go, “You guys can just play on top.”
You’re dealing with two very, very different people. And when me and Pete catch fire, probably anyone’s going to get lost. And probably anyone will. But we won’t. When we’re onstage, it’s like we’re f*cking. Offstage it can be a little awkward after those 15 minutes. But onstage, It’s like, “Cigarette, darling?”
What happened at the Royal Albert Hall. I know it was your idea to play “The Song Is Over.”
I’ve already got my gravestone. It says, “Zak Starkey, the song is over.”
What happened during that song? Roger stopped it after a verse.
He came in four bars early. And I just sent him an e-mail going, “I watched you on TV last night, you were off.” It’s 30 years in the group. It’s like a family. But he came in four bars early. And he just asked for the drums to be turned up, and he couldn’t hear the piano.
But I love Roger. He never misses a note. His voice is still so pure. It’s like a laser beam. He always nails it. They’ve not changed one key since the start of conceptual art as rock & roll.
But he just got lost. He blamed it on the drums being too loud, and then it got made into this huge social media thing. And it freaked him out and he’s going around doing solo shows, and saying it’s “fake news.” But it wasn’t me. I was in the car and gone before they finished the last acoustic song. There was no argument in the dressing room. Nothing. I was halfway home by the time they finished.
You were fired a few weeks later. What happened?
I got fired.
Why?
I dropped two beats. I’ve watched that film three times. I’m looking on the floor, and I can’t see it. If I drop two beats, where the f*ck are they?
Did this supposedly happen during “The Song Is Over” or a different song?
I’ve got no idea. It was all a bit vague. It was just like, “You’re getting fired.” And Pete had to hang in there with Rog because I think it was…I don’t know. I’m not going to name names or who did what. But Pete called me and said, “Are you strong enough to fight for your job back?” I said, “I’m not strong enough to have you do it for me. I don’t want you doing it.”
And then a week later, Pete called me and said, “How do you feel now?” I was like, [[i]sad, whiny voice[/i]] “Can I have my job back, please? Please can I have my job back?” They said, “OK, well you have to do a public apology and admit you dropped two beats.” So I did. I posted that little toy duck playing the snare drum. Pete called me and said, “Try again without the duck.”
I took the duck out, and I got my job back. And then 10 days later, I got a call saying “It’s never going to work. We want you to put out a statement saying you’re moving on to do your own thing.” And I said, “But I’m f*ckin’ not.” So I just left it and didn’t do it. It would be a lie. I’d never leave the Who. I love the Who.
I’d also never let down so many people who f*ckin’ stood up for me. They were like, “We saw that show. It wasn’t you.” But it got uncomfortable with that sort of negative attitude to Roger, and I didn’t want that to happen again. And then Pete did that statement that was so Pete. If you ask Pete what time it is at 2:00, he starts talking, and it’s 2:15 by the time he tells you. And so it was a bit like that.
And I just wrote over it. I wrote, “This is a load of bollocks, man. I got fired. I was asked to say this, and I’m not going to say it because it’s a f*ckin’ lie. Just because it’s the Who, I’m not going to let you walk all over me. We’ve had 30 years of great music. But I’m also not going to let it f*ck me up. I’m going to tell the truth.”
Within a week, me and Roger were talking on the phone. Pete and I text all the time. We text about other stuff. But with Roger, we always talk about the Who. He goes, “We haven’t fired you. We’ve retired you.” I go, “What’s the f*ckin’ difference? You’re the one at retirement age. What’s happening?”
He goes, “You’ve got so much going on with your other projects that we don’t think you’ve got time to dedicate to the Who.” I said, “You’re doing 17 shows, man, in like a month. I’ve just been to Jamaica for seven weeks. I finished everything. I’m completely available.” And Roger went, “Oh.” And I sort of left it there because I didn’t want to confuse things.
If it wasn’t your playing, what do you think caused this? Was it maybe financial?
Roger is quite renowned…. I once asked John Entwistle if Roger still had the money from the last Who tour. He goes, “He’s still got the money from the first one.”
Roger told you not to take your drums out of their storage in case they need you. You really think there’s a chance you’ll be on the tour after all this?
You have to ask Roger that since I don’t f*ckin’ know. These guys are f*ckin’ insane. It’s a good insane, and they have an addiction to friction.
I’ve never seen anything like this. In a very short period of time, you were fired, un-fired, fired again, and now they’re saying there’s a chance you’ll come back?
You know the greatest thing about it? My record came out yesterday, it’s f*ckin’ great, and everyone loves it. And everyone knows about it. [Laughs] And everyone wants to talk to me because of the Who.
You’ve gotten more press in the past few months than any other time in your history.
I’m the most famous drummer on the dole … welfare. I was on welfare as a teenager. I got thrown out of both parents houses simultaneously. I’ve got no idea why, but I was addicted to EVO-STIK glue at the time. My mom would be like, “What’s that? A beard?” And I was covered in glue.
It seems like you largely blame Roger for what happened.
I don’t blame anyone. I don’t hold any grudges. It’s the Who. Weirder shit than this has gone down. I’ve heard them say weirder shit than this. It’s the Who — the maddest band there’s ever been.
If they asked, you’d come back despite everything that’s happened?
Oh, man, of course I would. I said to Pete, “Thirty years. In the 30 years, you put the bar so f*ckin’ high. What the f*ck do I do now?” And I don’t even just mean musically, but lyrically. Because if you’re in a band, you’ve got to know what the words mean so you can transmit it properly. It’s really f*ckin’ important. I said to Pete, “What do you suggest?” I mean, the guy demands 200 percent every night, everything you’ve got. When you get back to the hotel, you’re not physically tired. You’re mentally tired from the whole conversation of it. It’s like them jazz players that are counting to 24 in five seconds.
Do you think Scott Devours is a good drummer?
I’ve never heard Scott, and I’ve never heard Joey. But I know they’re not mods, and that’s not a good sign.
The fans are definitely on your side. Many of them are upset about you not playing drums in Oasis or the Who.
At the end of the day, if you’ve got Liam doing his f*ckin’ hair on the Jumbotron and you got Pete windmillin’, every seat is going to be full.
The Who, you just don’t know what’s going to happen. If you think something is going to happen, the opposite happens. If you second guess Pete, he will play the opposite. You have to go with whatever you’re doing, and not think.
You’re not angry?
No. I’m sort of honored because they’re so crazy.
These things usually play out in private. This played out in public.
I did that. I didn’t want to get walked all over. It’s sort of like the Goons meet Stanley Unwin. It was the principal songwriter of the Who, and Todger Daltrey … I’m taking the piss … have decided to sack the drummer and bringing formal charges of over-playing, which is what I was told first. The first thing they said is that I was overplaying. “What? I’m just playing what that guy plays, no more.” I don’t think Roger liked that very much.
Then Pete did that weird thing and I went public…it’s because I’m not famous. I’m not a member of the Who. Who would want their problems? They asked me [to formally join the band] in 2006, and I was like, “I don’t want your problems, Pete. I don’t want to sit in a f*ckin’ room with Roger and you and get involved, and get a little badge that says, ‘Hey, I’m in the Who.’ I can’t work with anyone else, and the money is exactly the same.” But I didn’t feel it was right for them to force me to lie.
Who told you to lie? Management?
It was management. And when I told Roger that, he went, “Well, he’s his own man.” But he’s fired me twice. Was that his f*cking idea?
We’re talking about Bill Curbishley here?
Yeah. But Bill is my friend. He’s the fairest manager I’ve ever met. And he fired me twice, and told me I was retired. When I told Roger that, he gave me this bullshit about having all this work to do that I can’t do 17 gigs in the Who. Roger said that Bill is his own man. What a load of bullshit. What a lot of bollocks. He’s not his own man. You can’t start hiring and firing drummers because you’re the manager.
It’s the band’s choice.
Of course it is.
I’ll let you go in a second, but..
This is exciting, isn’t it? It’s like a Who album. It’s like a @#$%& roller coaster, man. It’s like Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy.
I’m seeing your dad tomorrow at Radio City.
I’m very proud of him standing up for me.
What did he say?
He said, “I’ve never liked the way that little man runs that band.”
Full interview > [www.rollingstone.com]
[archive.ph]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-19 16:34 by bye bye johnny.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
1cdog
()
Date: June 17, 2025 19:54
Quote
Glimmerest
https://www.vulture.com/article/ringo-starr-slams-the-who-roger-daltrey-that-little-man.html]Ringo Starr on the Who's Roger Daltrey: 'I’ve never liked the way that little man runs that band'[/url]
It does appear and has for many years that it is Yoko (Roger) who runs that band.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Beast
()
Date: June 19, 2025 14:50
Ringo Starr defends sacked son against Who’s ‘little man’ Daltrey
Drummer Zak Starkey was fired from the veteran rock band in May but says it is the singer who was at fault
[www.thetimes.com]
Drummer Zak Starkey was fired from the veteran rock band in May but says it is the singer who was at fault
[www.thetimes.com]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
MrEcho
()
Date: June 19, 2025 16:18
It's Roger's band, he can run it whichever way he wants. And he's always run it in a bit of a thuggish way. That's one of the reasons The Who got to where they are.
"He [Roger] was wrapped up in his own world. And very much a worker. He always drove the group’s van, and some of the journeys were very long. When we played in Blackpool he’d drive seven hours to get there, do the gig, and drive seven hours back. Nobody knew why he was so committed to it, but he was. He liked to be doing something, to be active." (Pete Townshend, Louder Sound interview, June 2025)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-19 16:18 by MrEcho.
"He [Roger] was wrapped up in his own world. And very much a worker. He always drove the group’s van, and some of the journeys were very long. When we played in Blackpool he’d drive seven hours to get there, do the gig, and drive seven hours back. Nobody knew why he was so committed to it, but he was. He liked to be doing something, to be active." (Pete Townshend, Louder Sound interview, June 2025)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-19 16:18 by MrEcho.
OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: June 20, 2025 15:26
Pete Townshend: 'I have to be careful what I say about Roger - he'll be sacking me next'
The veteran rock star on tensions in The Who, a new ballet adaptation of 'Quadrophenia', and why his rock epic is still relevant 50 years on
Shaun Curran
June 20, 2025
Johan Persson
In a sterile second-floor backroom at the Plymouth Theatre Royal, Pete Townshend is contemplating if the latest iteration of Quadrophenia resonates with a modern young audience. Townshend’s account of youth disaffection amid the 1965 Brighton mods v rockers riots – centring on young Jimmy, who finds suavely suited, amphetamine-fuelled, scooter-riding worth in (then disillusionment with) the mod movement – was the basis of The Who’s masterful 1973 rock opera album. Then the cult 1979 film starring Phil Daniels and Sting; latterly it’s been a book and, in 2015, an Alfie Boe-sung classical piece by the Royal Philharmonic, scored by Townshend’s wife Rachel Fuller.
The previous night was the world premiere of Quadrophenia, A Mod Ballet, the story given an artful modern update via a stirring, emotive dance interpretation that repurposes Fuller’s score. (“As soon as I heard, I thought – that would make a good ballet.”)
Whatever the form, Quadrophenia’s themes of young male alienation and unrequited love are timeless. “I’ve realised it could be called The Story of the Boy That Complained Too Much,” Townshend says. He hopes this particular production will still be a “comment on the way that young people struggle to find a meaning”, just as it was in 1973, or like The Who’s 60s anthems such as “My Generation” and “The Kids are Alright” that made Townshend the guitar-wielding voice of the subculture.
But times are very different. He admits at 80 he can’t be sure, but does feel as though young people are getting a rougher deal. “Roger Daltrey often says, at 16, you could work in a factory and get paid good enough money to buy yourself a scooter. I don’t know whether that’s true today. People are paying to get themselves educated. They’re living off their parents, and that’s a very different world for a 16-year-old,” he says. “The other thing is this dehumanising of young people. We’re taking away their ability and their right to behave as adults. And now we’re talking about the fact that people are kids until they’re 25. F**k off!”
This is also a generation of boys lost to the manosphere and Andrew Tate. If Jimmy was alive today, would he be an incel? “He is an incel,” Townshend says. “I hate to have to use the word incel, because I think it’s a scourge, that movement. He is a young man who has fallen in love with a girl who’s tied to the handsomest, toughest, smartest, coolest guy in the town. He wants her, and he can’t have her, and it really hurts. So he’s looking, using that incel lens – what is it that they have? I think if he was around today, he wouldn’t be an exceptional case.”
Townshend says he actually knew plenty like Jimmy. “The mod movement was very boy driven. The Who decided quite early that we were going to be a band for boys.” Townshend was writing for the boys he knew growing up in working-class Shepherd’s Bush, where a post-war generation was struggling to find its place in society. “I felt as an outsider, a middle-class boy, I was on – not a pedestal – but on a chair watching. I was able to see what these kids wanted and needed.”
Townshend, in a sharp blue jacket and beanie hat, nursing a “suitably poisonous” coffee from the venue’s kitchen, is as engaging and forthright as ever. A fan of ballet since his art school days, he says part of the motivation for the production was: “What else could I do that is going to get me called pretentious?” Though he notes that, “What’s interesting is the most pretentious thing I’ve ever done is to pretend to be a rock star. Because that’s the bit that I feel most uncomfortable with.”
After commissioning the production, he says he was hands-off: as music director, it was Fuller’s subsequent decision to enlist award-winning director Rob Ashford and choreographer Paul Roberts, known for his work with Harry Styles and Spice Girls. “He’d never even seen the film. I don’t think he knew who The Who were.” Neither did most of the 20-something cast.
Townshend originally wrote Quadrophenia as a means to reconnect The Who with their fanbase after 1971’s blockbuster album Who’s Next. “We’d lost our audience completely,” he says. “We’d become a prog rock, overblown stadium band.” He thought if he wrote about a fan who “saw The Who as his ideal group of men, that we would be able to find ourselves in him, in our fans, reconnect. To some extent it worked. To other extents, perhaps it didn’t.”
Having been at the Brighton riots, taking “leapers” (pills) and sleeping under the bridge with his girlfriend – “a few of the photos were staged by the press” – he’d also felt the same disillusionment with mod culture as Jimmy. “In the end, it was all about getting in the newspapers for being yobbos.” Quadrophenia was therefore full of spiritual songs, inspired by Indian guru Meher Baba, that looked for a higher purpose, such as “Love, Reign o’er Me”, as well as “The Punk and the Godfather” about Jimmy losing faith in The Who.
But did the audience really feel that same disconnect as Townshend? “No. It was a bit of a sleight of hand I was attempting. It turned on me, because, of course, the members of the band were quite happy with the idea that a young fan would want to be like them, but they weren’t all that keen on the idea that they should see themselves as a member of the audience.”
Still, off the back of his first successful rock opera, 1969’s Tommy, the band let Townshend follow his vision. “They trusted me without question. I dare say that now, the problem – if there is a problem between Roger and I – is that he doesn’t trust me the way that he used to.” What does Daltrey think about a ballet of Quadrophenia? “I don’t know what he thinks,” he smiles, “and I’m not going to ask him!”
The dysfunction at the heart of The Who, and the tense relationship between Townshend and Daltrey, is decades-old and legendary. It has been publicly played out once more with the recent sacking, reinstatement and then eventual re-sacking of Zak Starkey, son of Ringo Starr. Starkey had drummed for The Who since 1996, but was fired after The Who’s gig at the Royal Albert Hall in March after an onstage dressing down from Daltrey during 1971 track “The Song is Over”. (Starkey says Daltrey claims he was overplaying and dropped some beats, which he denies.)
He was restored three days later, with Townshend claiming “communication issues” for the misunderstanding. Yet Starkey was finally relieved of his duties a month later, and has been vocally critical of Daltrey’s handling of the situation and the claim he had been “retired” to concentrate on other projects.
“It’s been a mess,” Townshend says. I ask him about the Albert Hall incident. “I couldn’t see anything wrong. What you see is a band who haven’t played together for a long time. But I think it was probably to do with the sound. I’ve lost my sound man as a result,” he says. “I think Roger just got lost. Roger’s finding it difficult. I have to be careful what I say about Roger because he gets angry if I say anything about him at all. He’ll be sacking me next. But that’s not to say that he sacked Zak. It’s a decision Roger and I tried to make together, but it kind of got out of hand.”
Was it a difficult decision to let him go? “Well, I’ve never been a huge…” Townshend says, stopping himself short. “I didn’t invite him in, right? Roger invited him. And at that time, I don’t know quite why he chose Zak, but Zak is another Keith Moon. He comes with real, real bonuses and real, real difficulties.” Still, he says, “I will miss Zak terribly. But quite what the story is, I don’t f**king know. I really don’t know.”
The Who have planned what is billed as a final tour of America in August. I get the impression Townshend doesn’t exactly seem too up for it. “I don’t know whether I’ve been up for doing anything with The Who since 1973,” he says laughing. “But I am looking forward to it. Not because it’s the end, but because I hope that we can continue to explore other things.”
Townshend wants to make another Who album, the follow-up to 2019’s Who – Daltrey doesn’t. “Which is really hard for me. He feels that we’ve got enough legacy, and that’s where we differ.” Townshend does think about legacy, though. “I suppose, secretly, in our dreams, I don’t know about Rog, but who dies first, then what happens?”
He has given the impression for a long time that he’s been creatively unfulfilled in The Who. “It sounds like you’re asking for my sad story,” he says. “You can’t imagine what it’s like to be in my shoes. I mean, it’s f**king ecstasy. But I do suffer mood swings. I suffer from manic depression. So sometimes when I wake up, if there was a gun under my pillow, I might blow my brains out. But after a cup of tea and a digestive biscuit, I realise that I’m very, very lucky. I have an amazing life.”
[inews.co.uk]
The veteran rock star on tensions in The Who, a new ballet adaptation of 'Quadrophenia', and why his rock epic is still relevant 50 years on
Shaun Curran
June 20, 2025
Johan Persson
In a sterile second-floor backroom at the Plymouth Theatre Royal, Pete Townshend is contemplating if the latest iteration of Quadrophenia resonates with a modern young audience. Townshend’s account of youth disaffection amid the 1965 Brighton mods v rockers riots – centring on young Jimmy, who finds suavely suited, amphetamine-fuelled, scooter-riding worth in (then disillusionment with) the mod movement – was the basis of The Who’s masterful 1973 rock opera album. Then the cult 1979 film starring Phil Daniels and Sting; latterly it’s been a book and, in 2015, an Alfie Boe-sung classical piece by the Royal Philharmonic, scored by Townshend’s wife Rachel Fuller.
The previous night was the world premiere of Quadrophenia, A Mod Ballet, the story given an artful modern update via a stirring, emotive dance interpretation that repurposes Fuller’s score. (“As soon as I heard, I thought – that would make a good ballet.”)
Whatever the form, Quadrophenia’s themes of young male alienation and unrequited love are timeless. “I’ve realised it could be called The Story of the Boy That Complained Too Much,” Townshend says. He hopes this particular production will still be a “comment on the way that young people struggle to find a meaning”, just as it was in 1973, or like The Who’s 60s anthems such as “My Generation” and “The Kids are Alright” that made Townshend the guitar-wielding voice of the subculture.
But times are very different. He admits at 80 he can’t be sure, but does feel as though young people are getting a rougher deal. “Roger Daltrey often says, at 16, you could work in a factory and get paid good enough money to buy yourself a scooter. I don’t know whether that’s true today. People are paying to get themselves educated. They’re living off their parents, and that’s a very different world for a 16-year-old,” he says. “The other thing is this dehumanising of young people. We’re taking away their ability and their right to behave as adults. And now we’re talking about the fact that people are kids until they’re 25. F**k off!”
This is also a generation of boys lost to the manosphere and Andrew Tate. If Jimmy was alive today, would he be an incel? “He is an incel,” Townshend says. “I hate to have to use the word incel, because I think it’s a scourge, that movement. He is a young man who has fallen in love with a girl who’s tied to the handsomest, toughest, smartest, coolest guy in the town. He wants her, and he can’t have her, and it really hurts. So he’s looking, using that incel lens – what is it that they have? I think if he was around today, he wouldn’t be an exceptional case.”
Townshend says he actually knew plenty like Jimmy. “The mod movement was very boy driven. The Who decided quite early that we were going to be a band for boys.” Townshend was writing for the boys he knew growing up in working-class Shepherd’s Bush, where a post-war generation was struggling to find its place in society. “I felt as an outsider, a middle-class boy, I was on – not a pedestal – but on a chair watching. I was able to see what these kids wanted and needed.”
Townshend, in a sharp blue jacket and beanie hat, nursing a “suitably poisonous” coffee from the venue’s kitchen, is as engaging and forthright as ever. A fan of ballet since his art school days, he says part of the motivation for the production was: “What else could I do that is going to get me called pretentious?” Though he notes that, “What’s interesting is the most pretentious thing I’ve ever done is to pretend to be a rock star. Because that’s the bit that I feel most uncomfortable with.”
After commissioning the production, he says he was hands-off: as music director, it was Fuller’s subsequent decision to enlist award-winning director Rob Ashford and choreographer Paul Roberts, known for his work with Harry Styles and Spice Girls. “He’d never even seen the film. I don’t think he knew who The Who were.” Neither did most of the 20-something cast.
Townshend originally wrote Quadrophenia as a means to reconnect The Who with their fanbase after 1971’s blockbuster album Who’s Next. “We’d lost our audience completely,” he says. “We’d become a prog rock, overblown stadium band.” He thought if he wrote about a fan who “saw The Who as his ideal group of men, that we would be able to find ourselves in him, in our fans, reconnect. To some extent it worked. To other extents, perhaps it didn’t.”
Having been at the Brighton riots, taking “leapers” (pills) and sleeping under the bridge with his girlfriend – “a few of the photos were staged by the press” – he’d also felt the same disillusionment with mod culture as Jimmy. “In the end, it was all about getting in the newspapers for being yobbos.” Quadrophenia was therefore full of spiritual songs, inspired by Indian guru Meher Baba, that looked for a higher purpose, such as “Love, Reign o’er Me”, as well as “The Punk and the Godfather” about Jimmy losing faith in The Who.
But did the audience really feel that same disconnect as Townshend? “No. It was a bit of a sleight of hand I was attempting. It turned on me, because, of course, the members of the band were quite happy with the idea that a young fan would want to be like them, but they weren’t all that keen on the idea that they should see themselves as a member of the audience.”
Still, off the back of his first successful rock opera, 1969’s Tommy, the band let Townshend follow his vision. “They trusted me without question. I dare say that now, the problem – if there is a problem between Roger and I – is that he doesn’t trust me the way that he used to.” What does Daltrey think about a ballet of Quadrophenia? “I don’t know what he thinks,” he smiles, “and I’m not going to ask him!”
The dysfunction at the heart of The Who, and the tense relationship between Townshend and Daltrey, is decades-old and legendary. It has been publicly played out once more with the recent sacking, reinstatement and then eventual re-sacking of Zak Starkey, son of Ringo Starr. Starkey had drummed for The Who since 1996, but was fired after The Who’s gig at the Royal Albert Hall in March after an onstage dressing down from Daltrey during 1971 track “The Song is Over”. (Starkey says Daltrey claims he was overplaying and dropped some beats, which he denies.)
He was restored three days later, with Townshend claiming “communication issues” for the misunderstanding. Yet Starkey was finally relieved of his duties a month later, and has been vocally critical of Daltrey’s handling of the situation and the claim he had been “retired” to concentrate on other projects.
“It’s been a mess,” Townshend says. I ask him about the Albert Hall incident. “I couldn’t see anything wrong. What you see is a band who haven’t played together for a long time. But I think it was probably to do with the sound. I’ve lost my sound man as a result,” he says. “I think Roger just got lost. Roger’s finding it difficult. I have to be careful what I say about Roger because he gets angry if I say anything about him at all. He’ll be sacking me next. But that’s not to say that he sacked Zak. It’s a decision Roger and I tried to make together, but it kind of got out of hand.”
Was it a difficult decision to let him go? “Well, I’ve never been a huge…” Townshend says, stopping himself short. “I didn’t invite him in, right? Roger invited him. And at that time, I don’t know quite why he chose Zak, but Zak is another Keith Moon. He comes with real, real bonuses and real, real difficulties.” Still, he says, “I will miss Zak terribly. But quite what the story is, I don’t f**king know. I really don’t know.”
The Who have planned what is billed as a final tour of America in August. I get the impression Townshend doesn’t exactly seem too up for it. “I don’t know whether I’ve been up for doing anything with The Who since 1973,” he says laughing. “But I am looking forward to it. Not because it’s the end, but because I hope that we can continue to explore other things.”
Townshend wants to make another Who album, the follow-up to 2019’s Who – Daltrey doesn’t. “Which is really hard for me. He feels that we’ve got enough legacy, and that’s where we differ.” Townshend does think about legacy, though. “I suppose, secretly, in our dreams, I don’t know about Rog, but who dies first, then what happens?”
He has given the impression for a long time that he’s been creatively unfulfilled in The Who. “It sounds like you’re asking for my sad story,” he says. “You can’t imagine what it’s like to be in my shoes. I mean, it’s f**king ecstasy. But I do suffer mood swings. I suffer from manic depression. So sometimes when I wake up, if there was a gun under my pillow, I might blow my brains out. But after a cup of tea and a digestive biscuit, I realise that I’m very, very lucky. I have an amazing life.”
[inews.co.uk]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
RollingFreak
()
Date: June 21, 2025 06:51
Its so crazy that this is what is going on internally with the band right now. Maybe its not and this is regular business for them, it just happens to be playing out in the press at the moment. But its so strange that Pete Townshend needs to be "worried" about Roger, its strange that he seems to be kinda throwing Zak under the bus as "I never really wanted or picked him" (super weird because Zak has been beloved in this band for 30 years), its strange that seemingly Roger holds all the strings as to how the Who continues. If Pete doesn't like it, I really don't get why he goes along with it. I'm not saying he shouldn't air his grievances, but it just feels like (more than it can already seem with a lot of these different bands) that if they don't like each other and don't agree on how to continue, just put the horse down already. I suppose the money is too good, but you'd think they have enough and its not like they sell out everywhere they go when they tour. It'll never ruin their legacy, but it just feels like there's an invisible gun held to someone's head in this band and I don't get why when they're all adults and the band hasn't been creative since 1980.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
peoplewitheyes
()
Date: June 21, 2025 15:14
BBC Radio 4 doc. about Quadrophenia tonight:
[www.bbc.co.uk]
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
mosthigh
()
Date: June 22, 2025 02:19
"We're angry old farts now, not boring, though!" - Pete Townshend, circa 1977
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Dan
()
Date: June 22, 2025 02:25
Quote
RollingFreak
Its so crazy that this is what is going on internally with the band right now. Maybe its not and this is regular business for them, it just happens to be playing out in the press at the moment. But its so strange that Pete Townshend needs to be "worried" about Roger, its strange that he seems to be kinda throwing Zak under the bus as "I never really wanted or picked him" (super weird because Zak has been beloved in this band for 30 years), its strange that seemingly Roger holds all the strings as to how the Who continues. If Pete doesn't like it, I really don't get why he goes along with it. I'm not saying he shouldn't air his grievances, but it just feels like (more than it can already seem with a lot of these different bands) that if they don't like each other and don't agree on how to continue, just put the horse down already. I suppose the money is too good, but you'd think they have enough and its not like they sell out everywhere they go when they tour. It'll never ruin their legacy, but it just feels like there's an invisible gun held to someone's head in this band and I don't get why when they're all adults and the band hasn't been creative since 1980.
Pete's just playing his parts and collecting a paycheck.
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