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Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: rocker1 ()
Date: March 22, 2014 07:44



This image is copied from the signature line of IORR member HEILOOBAAS.

Question: Is this McCulloch Airlines plane (from the '72 tour), that is so nicely rendered in HEILOOBAAS's signature line, a DC-6 or DC-7, or other aircraft? I just can't tell and have always wondered. And did they use a different plane for Europe '73? And what the heck is McCulloch Airlines, anyway? A charter corporation circa '72? More details on McCulloch anywhere?

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 22, 2014 08:00

This appears to be the DC-6 the Stones chartered from McCullogh International Airlines for the 1972 North American Tour. I'm not sure what plane they used for the 1973 European Tour, but I'm sure someone else here will. If you want to know a little more about McCullogh Airlines check this out:[en.m.wikipedia.org].

There was another thread on IORR some years back that had lots of information on the various chartered planes and jets the Stones have used over the years. [www.iorr.org]

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: rocker1 ()
Date: March 22, 2014 08:14

Quote
TornAndFried
This appears to be the DC-6 the Stones chartered from McCullogh International Airlines for the 1972 North American Tour. I'm not sure what plane they used for the 1973 European Tour, but I'm sure someone else here will. If you want to know a little more about McCullogh Airlines check this out:[en.m.wikipedia.org].

There was another thread on IORR some years back that had lots of information on the various chartered planes and jets the Stones have used over the years. [www.iorr.org]

Thank you for that link. I suspected this had been discussed in detail previously on this board (there are few new topics when it comes to these older details!). So, for those keeping score and who are interested in the quick take:

Stones '72 plane was a Lockheed L-188 Electra (circa 1957-1961 vintage). See Description of the Stones' 1972 Tour plane

Stones '73 plane was a a Lockheed L-749 Constellation (circa 1947-1951 vintage). See Description of the Stones' 1973 tour plane

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 22, 2014 08:28

I always thought the plane they used for the '72 tour was a Douglas DC-7. And the Wikipedia entry for Vance/McCullogh Airlines listed their charter fleet as having both a DC-6 and DC-7, but not a Lockheed L-188...so I'm a bit confused.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-22 08:39 by TornAndFried.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: The Joker ()
Date: March 22, 2014 11:08

In 1973, they used the train and flight commercial, I believe.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 22, 2014 11:49

Quote
rocker1
Thank you for that link. I suspected this had been discussed in detail previously on this board (there are few new topics when it comes to these older details!).

I think we determined several years ago that there is no (from past and made public) Stones knowledge which has not been asked about and answered here (probably several times), that was back when I decided to basically stop creating threads winking smiley But to make up for I always trying to answer anyone I see (whom I like) ask a question whether it has been asked or not...

So ask away...
Shirleyy someone else also does not know that piece of trivia yet, and would like to know too, even if they dont know that they dont know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-22 14:39 by Max'sKansasCity.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 22, 2014 11:51

One of my favorite Stones tour posters, from 1972




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-22 11:54 by Max'sKansasCity.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 22, 2014 15:48

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
One of my favorite Stones tour posters, from 1972

This is a great poster and one of my favorites. It's ironic the poster depicts a modern jet, whilst the plane they actually used on the 1972 tour was a 15-year old propeller airplane!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-22 16:25 by TornAndFried.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 22, 2014 16:03

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
One of my favorite Stones tour posters, from 1972

This is a great poster and one of my favorites. It's ironic the poster depicts a modern jet, whilst the plane they actually used on the 1972 tour was a 10-year old propeller airplane!
That IS interesting... maybe they were just being hopeful of better things to come?


ot- I always thought the plane substory of "Almost Famous" was hilareous.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: mrpaulincanada ()
Date: March 22, 2014 16:21

As an ex Air Force pilot (and current airline pilot) who flew the military equivalent of the L188 Electra, I can tell you that the 1972 tour plane was a L188 Electra...it was about 15-18 years old at that time...

The 1973 tour Constellation was an old old piston engine powered bucket-of-bolts...

I am frankly surprised that they used the constellation....must have been Jagger's cheapness...

I have read that the 72 tour plane was a "jet" and this sometimes causes confusion. The L188 Electra had turbo-prop engines...ie jet engines that power a propellor (they are more efficient)....so there are jet engines, but they turn a prop as opposed to turbojet/turbofan engines that are the jet engines that most people think of when they use those terms.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-22 16:24 by mrpaulincanada.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 22, 2014 16:51

Quote
mrpaulincanada
As an ex Air Force pilot (and current airline pilot) who flew the military equivalent of the L188 Electra, I can tell you that the 1972 tour plane was indeed, a L188 Electra. It was about 15-18 years old at that time.

I have read that the 72 tour plane was a "jet" and this sometimes causes confusion. The L188 Electra had turbo-prop engines...ie jet engines that power a propellor (they are more efficient)....so there are jet engines, but they turn a prop as opposed to turbojet/turbofan engines that are the jet engines that most people think of when they use those terms.

Thanks for the information. I remember reading in a book about the 1972 tour that they were travelling on a chartered DC-6 and assumed that was correct.
On top of that, the Wikipedia entry for McCullogh International Airlines (the company from which the Stones chartered the plane) lists a DC-6 and DC-7 in their 1970s inventory, but no Lockheed L-188...hence my confusion.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-23 03:20 by TornAndFried.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: SweetThing ()
Date: March 23, 2014 03:10

It was definitely an Electra...


Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: shattered ()
Date: March 23, 2014 06:56

I always thought, and don't laugh, they toured with a 727. Good post on this one.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 23, 2014 07:44

Quote
shattered
I always thought, and don't laugh, they toured with a 727. Good post on this one.

The Boeing 727 would have been a far bigger, faster, and more comfortable plane than the Lockheed L188. I don't imagine the charter jet business was very advanced in 1972 so maybe the L188 was the best they could get at the time. Or perhaps they just didn't want to spend the extra money for a better plane. In spite of all the hype and mythology, the reality was that most rock tours of that era barely broke even...and many actualy lost money. So, there was a lot of bottom-line watching and pressure from the accountants and record company to keep expenses down so the band could finish the tour with a little money in their pockets.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-23 08:18 by TornAndFried.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 23, 2014 07:50

...does anyone make a 1792 ??



ROCKMAN

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 23, 2014 18:55

The blimp deserved its own tour poster...





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-23 18:57 by Max'sKansasCity.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: GOO ()
Date: March 23, 2014 20:55

The blimp was awesome

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 24, 2014 05:57

Quote
GOO
The blimp was awesome
thumbs up It really was, or is... Now I wonder where is the blimp? I wonder if something like that was built to last, or are they built only for the short term and then disposed of?

It makes me imagine a big warehouse somewhere full of magical fun Stones stuff, like in that one video where Wyman is walking though looking at stuff in between music videos.... maybe they need to make another video like that.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: SweetThing ()
Date: March 24, 2014 15:59

Those blimps last about ten years or so, give or take.. provided they aren't wrecked in an accident. This was a one day promotion I believe... The blimp undoubtedly went on to other sponsors.

As for the 767 they have now, it was/is nice the iconic logo, but they should've maybe put Jagger on one side of the tail, and Keith on the other... I mean if Elton John can get his mug on an aircraft...

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 24, 2014 16:48

Quote
SweetThing
Those blimps last about ten years or so, give or take.. provided they aren't wrecked in an accident. This was a one day promotion I believe... The blimp undoubtedly went on to other sponsors.
Thanks for the info smiling smiley


STONES!!

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: March 24, 2014 19:25

I love the planes of 72 and 73 but the 73 wins. It is so futuristic just like Keiths Custom 72. I know the plane is older but still. Somehow very typical 70s. Love it.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: mrpaulincanada ()
Date: March 24, 2014 21:02

Here's a link to






Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: HEILOOBAAS ()
Date: March 23, 2016 20:10

In 1972 a Lockheed Electra II was used to ferry the addicts from injection to injection.

The Electra was known as a 'prop-jet', kind of a really pacifying term to the flying public at a time when jets were the 'new' way to travel, props being old fashioned and slow.

The initial model of the Lockheed Electra suffered from the engine mountings not being heavy enough to withstand the higher than average take offs and landings the Electra was designed for. Even a slightly bumpy landing would send the engine mounting out of true, making for catastrophic vibration at cruise.

Initially the entire Electra fleet was only allowed to retain its Certificate of Airworthiness if it stayed below a certain speed.

The Electra II's were redesigned and, although a beautiful airliner, both from the passenger and crew opinion, the initial accidents cast a long shadow of doubt from which the Electra never recovered to make it a profitable product for Lockheed. I believe Lockheed's next civilian design was the L-1011.
Jeez! I think I know about as much about civil aviation as I do about the Stones! lol...


Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: JimmyPhelge ()
Date: March 23, 2016 21:15

The Constellation they used in 73 tour is still existing and in display at the science museum of Wraughton, England (according to this site)

[www.conniesurvivors.com]

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: mrpaulincanada ()
Date: March 24, 2016 03:40

I know this isn't the "It's only aircraft" bulletin board but..

Quote

The initial model of the Lockheed Electra suffered from the engine mountings not being heavy enough to withstand the higher than average take offs and landings the Electra was designed for. Even a slightly bumpy landing would send the engine mounting out of true, making for catastrophic vibration at cruise.



Not really....the engine mounts were under-engineered. The airplane was subject to "whirl flutter mode", a phenomenon that caused the outer engines to oscillate/vibrate and cause the wing to fail, and the aircraft to crash.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: HEILOOBAAS ()
Date: March 24, 2016 05:30

Quote
mrpaulincanada
I know this isn't the "It's only aircraft" bulletin board but..

Quote

The initial model of the Lockheed Electra suffered from the engine mountings not being heavy enough to withstand the higher than average take offs and landings the Electra was designed for. Even a slightly bumpy landing would send the engine mounting out of true, making for catastrophic vibration at cruise.



Not really....the engine mounts were under-engineered. The airplane was subject to "whirl flutter mode", a phenomenon that caused the outer engines to oscillate/vibrate and cause the wing to fail, and the aircraft to crash.


I appreciate the correction. I now remember it was referred to as 'fatal oscillation.'

Another thing I want to mention is that during the Scandanavian leg of Europe '73 a Sterling Caravelle was chartered to bring the band to the Swedish dates as well as Copenhagen.

Viz. Australia '73, the equipment traveled in the Connie; the band chartered an Ansett DC-9 (one of the small early models, -10 or so maybe higher). There's an article about the Connie flying LA to OZ and making all the stops the piston-driven liners made before the long-haul stretches we know today.

Mrpaulincanada, do you get the feeling you and I are the only 2 members at all interested in these aviation details?

Email me at the addy associated with this profile if you wish to continue the discussion into the realm of aviation-speak. The kind that would leave a room full of 'civilians' wondering just what the F we were referring to...







You'll notice the seats with alphabetical letters on them. At first I thought the pic of Mr. and Mrs. Mick was snapped on a chartered bus somewhere in England but the letters on the sides of the seats prove it was the Caravelle.

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: mrpaulincanada ()
Date: March 24, 2016 17:15

I think we should continue this discussion in public, IORRers will be better served by being educated into the finer points of aviation engineering and triviaspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: mnewman505 ()
Date: March 24, 2016 19:22

The blimp!!!!!!!! I remember seeing that thing flying around all over the place!

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: usetobesampeg ()
Date: March 25, 2016 05:38

Real good info here on the Stones Connie during the '73 Tour Down under for my fellow Plane nuts,
[www.adastron.com]

[www.adastron.com]

[www.adastron.com]

Cheers Jaime

Re: Stones airplane in '72 and '73
Posted by: Nasty Habits ()
Date: March 27, 2016 20:43

I've seen this actual plane when I went to visit the Science museum facility at Wroughton.

Taken from Wikipedia:

N7777G is displayed in TWA colors (although this aircraft never flew for TWA) at the Large Item Storage facility for the UK Science Museum at Wroughton, near Swindon. This aircraft was used by the Rolling Stones to transport equipment during their 1973 Australian tour.[24] It is the only UK Constellation and is viewable on certain open days.



[/quote]

"I've got nasty habits I take tea at three"

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