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stanloveQuote
floodonthepage
How can this thread be kicked up again on the heels of Chuck's passing? Chuck is the King, always will be..
Why would Berry passing have anything to do with Elvis vs Jagger?
Berry is no higher up the ladden now then he was a week ago. I know this is news to many people but when a performer dies it doesn't all of a sudden make them greater.
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floodonthepageQuote
stanloveQuote
floodonthepage
How can this thread be kicked up again on the heels of Chuck's passing? Chuck is the King, always will be..
Why would Berry passing have anything to do with Elvis vs Jagger?
Berry is no higher up the ladden now then he was a week ago. I know this is news to many people but when a performer dies it doesn't all of a sudden make them greater.
Well, Berry is the King, so there's no higher up the "ladden" for him to go, number one. Number two, you might consider asking whoever brought up Chuck's name earlier in this thread. Thanks for your sarcastic attempt to educate me though. Speaking of education, I know it's news to many people, but the word is L-A-D-D-E-R.
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floodonthepage
Mick destroys Elvis.....as a showman, as a musician, and certainly as a songwriter. Elvis is all show and sparkle, that is it. If he resurrected today I wouldn't walk to the end of my block to see him.
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stanloveQuote
floodonthepageQuote
stanloveQuote
floodonthepage
How can this thread be kicked up again on the heels of Chuck's passing? Chuck is the King, always will be..
Why would Berry passing have anything to do with Elvis vs Jagger?
Berry is no higher up the ladden now then he was a week ago. I know this is news to many people but when a performer dies it doesn't all of a sudden make them greater.
Well, Berry is the King, so there's no higher up the "ladden" for him to go, number one. Number two, you might consider asking whoever brought up Chuck's name earlier in this thread. Thanks for your sarcastic attempt to educate me though. Speaking of education, I know it's news to many people, but the word is L-A-D-D-E-R.
You mean in your opinion Berry is the King. Just one of many opinions. And Berry's death doesn't change where he is in the rankings just like I said. Could you point out to me where you ever called Berry the King before anywhere? before he died of course.
And just for your information nothing I posted in my previous post was sarcastic.
But great catch pointing out that I hot the N key instead of the R key. Huge contribution on your part. We need more like you. ( sarcasm )
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roller99
As far as I'm concerned, Elvis was nothing more than a cover band with one performer. He invented nothing. Mick Jagger is a fully-functioning musician with the ability to sing, write, play guitar and other instruments. Elvis had good vocals, in some ways better than Mick, but he lacked originality. He was dubbed "king of rock and roll" by the parents of his fans, and it was originally uttered with contempt. Teenagers adopted the term, and it stuck.
Chuck Berry was and always had been the true progenitor of Rock and Roll. I won't get into the debate about him "stealing the songs" from Johnny Johnson, but he had a mixture of Blues, R&B, Country, and who knows what else. But this isn't a thread about Chuck vs. anyone.
And, Elvis' most prolific period was cut short when he entered the army, Mick is still going. No contest.
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RipThisBone
Elvis Presley versus Mick Jagger: 150 kg versus 65 kg.
Sorry if mentioned before in this thread I only read the title.
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floodonthepage
Good lord, of course it's just my opinion. It's a forum full of opinions. What does it matter if I ever called Berry the King on this forum before? Berry came up in THIS thread, as did other musicians for that matter. You think I'm calling him the king because he's dead? No. No I am not. Though while it may not changes the "rankings" for you, which is of course YOUR opinion, it may change things for someone else out there, and that would be THEIR opinion. Again, it's a forum full of opinions.....and buttons. Seems I've pushed yours.
"I hot the N key". Wow
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HotStuff92Quote
floodonthepage
Good lord, of course it's just my opinion. It's a forum full of opinions. What does it matter if I ever called Berry the King on this forum before? Berry came up in THIS thread, as did other musicians for that matter. You think I'm calling him the king because he's dead? No. No I am not. Though while it may not changes the "rankings" for you, which is of course YOUR opinion, it may change things for someone else out there, and that would be THEIR opinion. Again, it's a forum full of opinions.....and buttons. Seems I've pushed yours.
"I hot the N key". Wow
If anything, it seems stanlove is the one who pushed your buttons, not the other way around. Yes, this is a board full of many people with differing opinions. But there is a difference between an opinion like "I prefer Mick Jagger/Chuck Berry over Elvis" and spouting absurdities like Elvis was "all show and sparkle," while ignoring his talents and the massive impact he had on rock and roll and music in general.
By the way, do you really have room to give spelling and grammar lessons when you're typing sentences like what I've bolded?
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floodonthepageQuote
HotStuff92Quote
floodonthepage
Good lord, of course it's just my opinion. It's a forum full of opinions. What does it matter if I ever called Berry the King on this forum before? Berry came up in THIS thread, as did other musicians for that matter. You think I'm calling him the king because he's dead? No. No I am not. Though while it may not changes the "rankings" for you, which is of course YOUR opinion, it may change things for someone else out there, and that would be THEIR opinion. Again, it's a forum full of opinions.....and buttons. Seems I've pushed yours.
"I hot the N key". Wow
If anything, it seems stanlove is the one who pushed your buttons, not the other way around. Yes, this is a board full of many people with differing opinions. But there is a difference between an opinion like "I prefer Mick Jagger/Chuck Berry over Elvis" and spouting absurdities like Elvis was "all show and sparkle," while ignoring his talents and the massive impact he had on rock and roll and music in general.
By the way, do you really have room to give spelling and grammar lessons when you're typing sentences like what I've bolded?
You are right, Hotstuff92. That is a mistake, indeed. I laughed just now, actually. Thank you. But no buttons pushed here. The "it's news to some", condescending tone (my opinion is better than yours vibe) was so ridiculous that I decided to push back to see what might be under it. But ultimately, I know many of us on this forum take music very seriously, myself included.....but good lord, that whole thing was getting needlessly wound up. I must say though, it is not absurd to have an opinion that Elvis is all show and sparkle. Come on. No more than your opinion that Elvis was more than that. I think his show and sparkle was largely what people liked about him. But for me, it's pretty transparent that he wasn't much more than that. There are many, many musicians who weren't much more than that who still had an impact on rock and roll and music in general.
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floodonthepageQuote
stanloveQuote
floodonthepageQuote
stanloveQuote
floodonthepage
How can this thread be kicked up again on the heels of Chuck's passing? Chuck is the King, always will be..
Why would Berry passing have anything to do with Elvis vs Jagger?
Berry is no higher up the ladden now then he was a week ago. I know this is news to many people but when a performer dies it doesn't all of a sudden make them greater.
Well, Berry is the King, so there's no higher up the "ladden" for him to go, number one. Number two, you might consider asking whoever brought up Chuck's name earlier in this thread. Thanks for your sarcastic attempt to educate me though. Speaking of education, I know it's news to many people, but the word is L-A-D-D-E-R.
You mean in your opinion Berry is the King. Just one of many opinions. And Berry's death doesn't change where he is in the rankings just like I said. Could you point out to me where you ever called Berry the King before anywhere? before he died of course.
And just for your information nothing I posted in my previous post was sarcastic.
But great catch pointing out that I hot the N key instead of the R key. Huge contribution on your part. We need more like you. ( sarcasm )
Good lord, of course it's just my opinion. It's a forum full of opinions. What does it matter if I ever called Berry the King on this forum before? Berry came up in THIS thread, as did other musicians for that matter. You think I'm calling him the king because he's dead? No. No I am not. Though while it may not changes the "rankings" for you, which is of course YOUR opinion, it may change things for someone else out there, and that would be THEIR opinion. Again, it's a forum full of opinions.....and buttons. Seems I've pushed yours.
"I hot the N key". Wow
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HotStuff92Quote
floodonthepageQuote
HotStuff92Quote
floodonthepage
Good lord, of course it's just my opinion. It's a forum full of opinions. What does it matter if I ever called Berry the King on this forum before? Berry came up in THIS thread, as did other musicians for that matter. You think I'm calling him the king because he's dead? No. No I am not. Though while it may not changes the "rankings" for you, which is of course YOUR opinion, it may change things for someone else out there, and that would be THEIR opinion. Again, it's a forum full of opinions.....and buttons. Seems I've pushed yours.
"I hot the N key". Wow
If anything, it seems stanlove is the one who pushed your buttons, not the other way around. Yes, this is a board full of many people with differing opinions. But there is a difference between an opinion like "I prefer Mick Jagger/Chuck Berry over Elvis" and spouting absurdities like Elvis was "all show and sparkle," while ignoring his talents and the massive impact he had on rock and roll and music in general.
By the way, do you really have room to give spelling and grammar lessons when you're typing sentences like what I've bolded?
You are right, Hotstuff92. That is a mistake, indeed. I laughed just now, actually. Thank you. But no buttons pushed here. The "it's news to some", condescending tone (my opinion is better than yours vibe) was so ridiculous that I decided to push back to see what might be under it. But ultimately, I know many of us on this forum take music very seriously, myself included.....but good lord, that whole thing was getting needlessly wound up. I must say though, it is not absurd to have an opinion that Elvis is all show and sparkle. Come on. No more than your opinion that Elvis was more than that. I think his show and sparkle was largely what people liked about him. But for me, it's pretty transparent that he wasn't much more than that. There are many, many musicians who weren't much more than that who still had an impact on rock and roll and music in general.
Fair enough; perhaps it's just the way of posting on the internet, where a post could come across as condescending or overly defensive or what have you, when there was no such intention from the poster - but I digress!
Perhaps I don't quite get what you mean, when you say the sparkle was part of his appeal. From your perspective, is being all about the show and sparkle inherently a bad thing? Would you say Elvis - and anyone else who had a large influence on music despite having a large emphasis on style - deserve respect and recognition for their talents, impact, and influence?
As for how I feel, I do believe Elvis was so much more than that. For me, the fact that he had one of the most dynamic and diverse voices in all of popular music is what draws me to him. I don't find much issue with him not being a songwriter, as he still had a huge part in the arrangements of what he recorded - whether it be a cover of somebody else or a song written specifically for him. The example Justin used in his post illustrates this; Elvis took Big Mama Thornton's Hound Dog, a blues song, and completely transformed it into a rock and roll classic. Elvis also had a significant part in the creative process in regards to songs written specifically for him. Tommy Durden, one of the co-writers of Heartbreak Hotel, said he didn't recognize it as the song he had written once he heard the recording. He certainly never took a song and played it note for note as he originally heard it.
At the end of the day, a title like "King of Rock and Roll" or anything of that nature, is rather pointless. Roller99 said Elvis did not invent anything; this is something I will agree with, for the most part. That said, I don't think Chuck Berry, or any single individual, is responsible for inventing rock and roll either. The first rock record is highly debatable, but for what it's worth Elvis did debut before Chuck Berry - but even then, Ike Turner debuted before him, and Fats Domino before him, so on and so forth. I'm more of the belief that it was a movement lead by a number of people, with Elvis Presley at the forefront. It's a movement that would simply not have happened the way it did if not for him, and I don't believe for one second this could be achieved if Elvis had no substance to back up the style. And it's why if I had to give the crown to anybody, it would have to be Elvis.
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floodonthepage
Stone4ever,
World recognition does not, for me, make someone great or important. I see your point about Elvis' acclaim, but Chuck did more for the MUSIC than Elvis in my opinion. Elvis is your King, I get it, but to say Chuck is nowhere near the top 10 just sounds silly to me. For me, even Elvis, who I think is overrated for his contributions, would make it into a top 10 list of early rockers who changed the music, albeit, toward the bottom of the list.
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Redhotcarpet
Elvis is an icon like Dean, Monroe or Brando. Of course he is the greatest. He is the first real global iconic rock star. He is underrated as an artist because of the Vegas years.
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stone4everQuote
Redhotcarpet
Elvis is an icon like Dean, Monroe or Brando. Of course he is the greatest. He is the first real global iconic rock star. He is underrated as an artist because of the Vegas years.
Finally someone who gets it
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MisterDDDDQuote
stone4everQuote
Redhotcarpet
Elvis is an icon like Dean, Monroe or Brando. Of course he is the greatest. He is the first real global iconic rock star. He is underrated as an artist because of the Vegas years.
Finally someone who gets it
Vegas years in't what tarnished his status as an artist.. his movies and overdosing on a toilet did. His iconic status skyrocketed years after his death.
Mick's iconic rise will eclipse Elvis' after he passes.
OK -- Elvis started at age 21 and Mick at 41.Quote
wonderboy
Compare Elvis as a solo artist to Mick as a solo artist.
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stoneheartedOK -- Elvis started at age 21 and Mick at 41.Quote
wonderboy
Compare Elvis as a solo artist to Mick as a solo artist.
Without his original backing band, Elvis would have been nowhere.
Elvis was a singer -- that's it. He had the right look at the right time, but musically there was nothing groundbreaking after the first couple of years.
The real innovative talent in early rock music, the one who could take what was newly established to the next level, was Buddy Holly.