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DandelionPowdermanQuote
BlissQuote
proudmaryQuote
StonedInTokyoQuote
Bliss
Ok. What's bothering me is that this smells like a PR spin to deflect attention away from the truth. Out of seven long term r'ships that we know of, three of the women have made serious suicide attempts, one successfully. Now perhaps all these women were unstable to begin with. Or perhaps not.
Postponing a massive tour to fly half-way around the world to attend to this unfortunate matter and mourn her loss is not a PR-spin. Regardless of what you may think of him, it is wholly inappropriate to make judgmental pronouncements on Mick's relationship with L'Wren, particularly at this time.
I totally agree StonedInTokyo
To Bliss - the relationships are not the life imprisonment.
You do not stay in them for fear that your partner will commit suicide in case of breakup. And we have no evidence to support this theory - Mick's separation from L'Wren - except for tabloid gossip.
However, I find it strange that CindyC with her respectful desire to understand what happened was ostracized and banned while this puritanical finger-pointing does not cause any ill feeling
To PM - I agree completely. Apart from not yielding to L'Wren's reported desire for marriage and family, there is no evidence to suggest that Mick ever treated L'Wren badly. There are reports that he bailed her out financially numerous times. They always looked extremely happy together and it really seemed as if Mick had found contentment at last. It is quite certain that Mick would never have wished her any harm and definitely not this tragic end. But you are correct, a r'ship should not be a prison sentence, and when only one person wants to leave, the other often suffers.
Let us be clear - no one is blaming Mick for L'Wren's death.
I am very glad you have concluded with that! Eventually...
<He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug>
Are you able to see for yourself now - how this quote looks?
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RokyfanNo you don't agree.Quote
DreamerQuote
Rokyfan
Kill the messenger
I agree.
I don't mind if paulm is banned for suggestions like this "but I also think some of the wording is legal-ese, as in damage control, as in preventive measure to deflect potential civil suits. Before I get flamed, step outside the emotional and consider the implications: this is big business." in a place and at a time like this it's not about our opinions but about the decency to step back.
When someone died like this it's not about free speech or something. There is lots of personal grief and shock and even more just because of publications like this. People who insist that the RS are public property, even when a close friend or relative dies in the most shocking circumstances are bullying, not the other people who react to that by saying 'get out of here!' or 'shut up.'
It's more than tasteless to speculate about why LS has taken her life, about the relationship she had with MJ, about everything actually; people who are doing that just with the argument of freedom of speech are wrongfully using it and are intruders of the worst kind.
The phrase "kill the messenger" is sarcastic -- it means you don't like what the messenger is saying but instead of responding to the argument, you kill the messenger.
That's the tone of a lot of these messages, including yours. "We don't want to think that Mick left his long time lover before she killed herself so we sill castigate people who point it out."
You have the right to think something is tasteless, I just think it is silly to complain about people making what you see as tasteless comment on the internet. Tasteless is allowed.
Above all I am fan of Lennon: Gimme some Truth. The truth has a value all its own. It is good for the truth to be told and bad when things are covered up. That's my view. Stop the PR bullshit and give us the truth.
(the phrase apparently comes from an ancient practice -- when a messenger arrived with bad news, the messenger was killed. Today we call it banning [metaphorically]).
You call for banning someone is the MOST offensive and tasteless thing (to me) I have read on this thread.
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DandelionPowderman
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
It was never a question about that, that's hilarious.
If someone you knew died, and I sent you an e-mail minutes after that, saying that you pulled the plug - and that I don't feel any pity for you - would you thank me for "thinking out of the box"?
Christ!
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
Bliss
I am very glad you have concluded with that! Eventually...
<He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug>
>>I am very glad you have concluded with that! Eventually...
<He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug>
I was quoting MockJigger.
You sure did, and agreed:
<I would say this sums it up
>>He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug.>
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DandelionPowderman
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
It was never a question about that, that's hilarious.
If someone you knew died, and I sent you an e-mail minutes after that, saying that you pulled the plug - and that I don't feel any pity for you - would you thank me for "thinking out of the box"?
Christ!
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DandelionPowderman
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
It was never a question about that, that's hilarious.
If someone you knew died, and I sent you an e-mail minutes after that, saying that you pulled the plug - and that I don't feel any pity for you - would you thank me for "thinking out of the box"?
Christ!
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andrewtQuote
DandelionPowderman
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
It was never a question about that, that's hilarious.
If someone you knew died, and I sent you an e-mail minutes after that, saying that you pulled the plug - and that I don't feel any pity for you - would you thank me for "thinking out of the box"?
Christ!
Who sent an e-mail to Mick? That's reductio ad absurdum.
If someone got too caught up in things and made a foolish comment without thinking it through, I suggest letting them know and guiding them back to reason in a spirit of friendliness and co-operation.
Banning a long time contributor over something like that is also an emotional overreaction.
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treaclefingersQuote
andrewtQuote
DandelionPowderman
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
It was never a question about that, that's hilarious.
If someone you knew died, and I sent you an e-mail minutes after that, saying that you pulled the plug - and that I don't feel any pity for you - would you thank me for "thinking out of the box"?
Christ!
Who sent an e-mail to Mick? That's reductio ad absurdum.
If someone got too caught up in things and made a foolish comment without thinking it through, I suggest letting them know and guiding them back to reason in a spirit of friendliness and co-operation.
Banning a long time contributor over something like that is also an emotional overreaction.
Talking about reduction ad absurdum...you had a pretty good one yerself:
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
I think pretty much everyone is dismayed at the banning, but what the hell has that got to do with Dandelion, or the price of tea in China?
Stay on topic Andrew.
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andrewtQuote
treaclefingersQuote
andrewtQuote
DandelionPowderman
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
It was never a question about that, that's hilarious.
If someone you knew died, and I sent you an e-mail minutes after that, saying that you pulled the plug - and that I don't feel any pity for you - would you thank me for "thinking out of the box"?
Christ!
Who sent an e-mail to Mick? That's reductio ad absurdum.
If someone got too caught up in things and made a foolish comment without thinking it through, I suggest letting them know and guiding them back to reason in a spirit of friendliness and co-operation.
Banning a long time contributor over something like that is also an emotional overreaction.
Talking about reduction ad absurdum...you had a pretty good one yerself:
<Stop the witch-hunting and attempts to purge people who are not falling in line with the prescribed groupthink.>
I think pretty much everyone is dismayed at the banning, but what the hell has that got to do with Dandelion, or the price of tea in China?
Stay on topic Andrew.
Hooray, the system works! Duly noted, treacle.
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RokyfanNo you don't agree.Quote
DreamerQuote
Rokyfan
Kill the messenger
I agree.
I don't mind if paulm is banned for suggestions like this "but I also think some of the wording is legal-ese, as in damage control, as in preventive measure to deflect potential civil suits. Before I get flamed, step outside the emotional and consider the implications: this is big business." in a place and at a time like this it's not about our opinions but about the decency to step back.
When someone died like this it's not about free speech or something. There is lots of personal grief and shock and even more just because of publications like this. People who insist that the RS are public property, even when a close friend or relative dies in the most shocking circumstances are bullying, not the other people who react to that by saying 'get out of here!' or 'shut up.'
It's more than tasteless to speculate about why LS has taken her life, about the relationship she had with MJ, about everything actually; people who are doing that just with the argument of freedom of speech are wrongfully using it and are intruders of the worst kind.
The phrase "kill the messenger" is sarcastic -- it means you don't like what the messenger is saying but instead of responding to the argument, you kill the messenger.
That's the tone of a lot of these messages, including yours. "We don't want to think that Mick left his long time lover before she killed herself so we sill castigate people who point it out."
You have the right to think something is tasteless, I just think it is silly to complain about people making what you see as tasteless comment on the internet. Tasteless is allowed.
Above all I am fan of Lennon: Gimme some Truth. The truth has a value all its own. It is good for the truth to be told and bad when things are covered up. That's my view. Stop the PR bullshit and give us the truth.
(the phrase apparently comes from an ancient practice -- when a messenger arrived with bad news, the messenger was killed. Today we call it banning [metaphorically]).
You call for banning someone is the MOST offensive and tasteless thing (to me) I have read on this thread.
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BlissQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Bliss
I am very glad you have concluded with that! Eventually...
<He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug>
>>I am very glad you have concluded with that! Eventually...
<He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug>
I was quoting MockJigger.
You sure did, and agreed:
<I would say this sums it up
>>He pulled the plug. The funding plug and the emotional plug.>
Yes, and I stand by it. But it is not how I personally would choose to express myself.
As I said, I do not consider anyone to 'blame' for this unfortunate event. Suicide is a result of pople wanting to end what they see as intolerable and unabating pain. But this story that Ms Scott ended her life over a business debt is almost insulting. If anything, it reflects worse on Mick! If I killed myself over a business failure, my husband, the big earner, would have some serious 'splaining to do to my irate family. And if he told them that I was too proud to ask for help, he might be wearing his jewels for earrings.
As pointed out above, no one should be a hostage in a marriage or romantic partnership, or stay because they fear the consequences of leaving. And I also think that if you choose to be involved with someone with a very chequered romantic past, you can expect history to repeat itself. And from his public statements, Mick never claimed to be in a permanent r'ship with L'Wren, nor was he ever unclear about his views on marriage.
But...emotions cannot always be contained. And I do believe this unintended, unexpected tragedy will cast a long shadow over Mick's life.
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paulm
Guys, I'm acknowledging criticism here, in saying I'm sorry for trying to interpret this tragedy. I got caught up in reading too much, and in trying to make sense out of something that is beyond understanding.
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DandelionPowderman
@ proudmary:
That's why merely spreading unsubstantial rumours is not appropriate, shortly after someone died, imo.
I can't fathom that people think otherwise, but I'm gonna have to accept that, obviously - since it looks like the majority on IORR agree with this appraoch...
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
paulm
Guys, I'm acknowledging criticism here, in saying I'm sorry for trying to interpret this tragedy. I got caught up in reading too much, and in trying to make sense out of something that is beyond understanding.
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Bellajane
It's true there is no end to speculations and gossip, and I'm afraid it will get much worse before things calm down, especially in our 24/7 media-crazed society. I'm all for expressing oneself and, believe me, I've gotten into a few frays on this forum, so I'm not trying to be hypocritical. But out of respect for L'Wren, Mick, and family and friends; I just wish that this thread would be treated like a guest book in a church or funeral home where just condolences and fond remembrances be expressed. I think that was the original intent of this thread.
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MunichhiltonQuote
DandelionPowderman
@ proudmary:
That's why merely spreading unsubstantial rumours is not appropriate, shortly after someone died, imo.
I can't fathom that people think otherwise, but I'm gonna have to accept that, obviously - since it looks like the majority on IORR agree with this appraoch...
I don't know...proud or not, mary has essentially convinced me this is all Keith's fault...
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BlissQuote
MunichhiltonQuote
DandelionPowderman
@ proudmary:
That's why merely spreading unsubstantial rumours is not appropriate, shortly after someone died, imo.
I can't fathom that people think otherwise, but I'm gonna have to accept that, obviously - since it looks like the majority on IORR agree with this appraoch...
I don't know...proud or not, mary has essentially convinced me this is all Keith's fault...
Keith had a problem with Bianca and Jerry too.
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BlissQuote
MunichhiltonQuote
DandelionPowderman
@ proudmary:
That's why merely spreading unsubstantial rumours is not appropriate, shortly after someone died, imo.
I can't fathom that people think otherwise, but I'm gonna have to accept that, obviously - since it looks like the majority on IORR agree with this appraoch...
I don't know...proud or not, mary has essentially convinced me this is all Keith's fault...
Keith had a problem with Bianca and Jerry too.
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
BlissQuote
MunichhiltonQuote
DandelionPowderman
@ proudmary:
That's why merely spreading unsubstantial rumours is not appropriate, shortly after someone died, imo.
I can't fathom that people think otherwise, but I'm gonna have to accept that, obviously - since it looks like the majority on IORR agree with this appraoch...
I don't know...proud or not, mary has essentially convinced me this is all Keith's fault...
Keith had a problem with Bianca and Jerry too.
So did Mick...