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Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 20, 2014 17:52

These threads about Exile made me listen back to the Nicky Hopkins tape and compare it with the final released versions.

The interesting thing is that one can really imagine why parts where removed in LA, and overdubbed by other people. It’s not the original parts where bad per se, but as the song developed with added vocal melodies etc. original parts could be in the way, messing up the track. I bet Richards tried 20 different guitar parts on Rip This Joint, but finally realized that the track is at its best with just one rhythm guitar, and a double bass overdub, which acts as an acoustic guitar filling up all the empty spaces. Wyman’s bass on Soul Survivor is great on the original track, but with the vocals it is much too ‘swinging’ than the solid, straight-forward bass it ended up with. Wyman’s bass cluttered up the very busy mix.

That the genius of producers like Miller, Richards and Jagger. As always, the magic happens in the mixing room.


All Down The Line:

The bass on the Hopkins tape is exactly the same as on the released version, which is plain proof Wyman was right ever since the release of the album: he does play bass on All Down The Line, and not Bill Plummer. It’s not an upright bass at all, it’s most likely his own homemade bass, plucked with fingers. Another interesting thing is Taylor’s part: on the Hopkins version he plays a lot more than what is released. For the Exile version they kept all his slide licks, but removed all his rhythm guitar licks (at C and D, ‘bust another bottle’ for example), and Taylor’s rhythm guitar indeed clashes with Richards driving open G guitar. Something that never really stuck out to me but now does: the Hopkins version is wide stereo, but the Exile version is mixed mono.

I Am Not Signifying:

A total different take to what they used on the Deluxe version. On the Deluxe version Richards is completely missing, while he does play (with the exact same guitar tone as on Rocks Off!), together with an acoustic, on the Hopkins tape.

Rip This Joint:

Taylor’s plays a very elaborate slide and rhythm guitar on the Hopkins version, which really doesn’t fit at all. The slide guitar is out of tune a bit, and his rhythm guitar uses the same jazzy chords he uses in the outtake of Rocks Off. Interesting bit: they removed all of Taylor’s guitar, and Richards plays the overdubbed slide guitar. This means that Taylor is not on the official version of Rip This Joint. Wyman’s bass on the Hopkins tape is indeed replaced by a double bass on the official version.

Rocks Off:

There's three guitars: the two Richards rhythm guitar left and right, and Taylor's rhythm guitar just off the right of the spectrum. Taylor plays throughout the song, mainly jazzy chords on the A and B chords, and some slide runs here and there. In my opinion, it just really clutters up the song. They decided, rightfully so in my opinion, to make Hopkins' piano the melodic central point of the track. Thus, two steady driving guitars and one melodic piano doing all the fills and runs. Taylor's guitar just messes up the tightness of the track. The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Soul Survivor:

Guitars and drums on the Hopkins tape are the same as the Alternate version as far as I hear, and on the released version these guitars are edited somewhat differently. On the Hopkins tape Wyman plays a very busy, walking bass –style part which is removed and overdubbed by Richards.

Mathijs

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:24

they show their process ..its what works best for the song..the decisions have held up well.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:37

Great contribution, Mathijs!

"Taylor's guitar just messes up the tightness of the track"
I'm not one of these Taylor bashers but I'm sure Keef & Mick often had that thought while listening to playback in the control room...

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:42

Can someone post the Hopkins tape here, to make it possible to judge?

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Date: January 20, 2014 18:46

Rocks Off is in the RO thread, kleerie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-20 18:48 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 20, 2014 20:01

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Rocks Off is in the RO thread, kleerie.

Saw and heard it Dandie, thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-20 20:01 by kleermaker.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: RobberBride ()
Date: January 20, 2014 21:44

Quote
kleermaker
Can someone post the Hopkins tape here, to make it possible to judge?

ADTL:




Instrumental:




Signifying:




Soul Survivor:




Rocks Off:




Rip This Joint:




Some of these runs a bit fast, they were speedcorrected by someone here that you can find elsewhere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-20 21:45 by RobberBride.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: January 20, 2014 22:35

I love Rip This Joint especially Mick's slide......matter of course they left it out of the final version it wouldn't fit with Mick's singing

__________________________

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: January 20, 2014 22:37

Thanks RobberBride, you beat me to it. Note that the version of Rocks Off posted above is way better quality than the one posted in the Rocks Off thread.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: January 20, 2014 23:27

that instrumental one is interesting

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Captainchaos ()
Date: January 21, 2014 00:07

love that instrumental!!!!!

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: January 21, 2014 00:12

Can anyone post the entire release in the buy/sell/trade forum? That would be greatly appreciated!

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: smokeydusky ()
Date: January 21, 2014 00:14

Quote
Mathijs

Rip This Joint:
Interesting bit: they removed all of Taylor’s guitar, and Richards plays the overdubbed slide guitar. This means that Taylor is not on the official version of Rip This Joint.

Rocks Off:
The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

RTJ: What makes you believe the slide is not an edited version of Taylor's slide and that any overdub is by Richards?

RO: I think Carla Osen reported that the solo was cut off because they ran out of tape (presumably Taylor was her source).
While I don't agree with all the edits, I do think the horn parts were rightly trimmed on this one and wonder why the bouncing horn parts were tried at all. Is there some soul song those bouncing come from?

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 21, 2014 00:21

Quote
smokeydusky
Quote
Mathijs

Rip This Joint:
Interesting bit: they removed all of Taylor’s guitar, and Richards plays the overdubbed slide guitar. This means that Taylor is not on the official version of Rip This Joint.

Rocks Off:
The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

RTJ: What makes you believe the slide is not an edited version of Taylor's slide and that any overdub is by Richards?

RO: I think Carla Osen reported that the solo was cut off because they ran out of tape (presumably Taylor was her source).
While I don't agree with all the edits, I do think the horn parts were rightly trimmed on this one and wonder why the bouncing horn parts were tried at all. Is there some soul song those bouncing come from?

RTJ: the slide of the official version is clearly different to the slide Taylor plays on the outtake, and is executed much less professional than Taylor would do. It also very much sounds like a close miked overdub.

RO: tape running out is rediculous, that just won't ever happen. I am absolutely sure they thought a short solo fading out early has more tension than a long solo, which also is not very Stones-y anyway.

Mathijs

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: January 21, 2014 00:31

Quote
whitem8
Can anyone post the entire release in the buy/sell/trade forum? That would be greatly appreciated!

Youtube is where I (and most IORRians) first saw the tracks, and they don't appear to be widely circulated as a CD. But it seems like the youtube tracks were CD sourced.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: January 21, 2014 01:09

Like others have said, that instrumental is pretty cool.

I get a taste of Wild Horses, during the first 40 seconds. confused smiley

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Munichhilton ()
Date: January 21, 2014 01:15

Quote
whitem8
Can anyone post the entire release in the buy/sell/trade forum? That would be greatly appreciated!

This is where we captured a lot of it in 320K and cleaned it up sonically quite nicely.
It seems it was even good enough to cut to vinyl and release in Japan as part of their bootleg box...they even kept the names I gave the files...

[www.iorr.org]

Someone will have to renew the links, but that group of songs we grabbed were damn good. It was before the YouTube links started 'crackling' and popping. Much better sound then for some reason

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: microvibe ()
Date: January 21, 2014 02:29

the beginning of the instrumental sounds like the middle part of til the next goodbye on iorr.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: smokeydusky ()
Date: January 21, 2014 05:36

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
smokeydusky
Quote
Mathijs

Rip This Joint:
Interesting bit: they removed all of Taylor’s guitar, and Richards plays the overdubbed slide guitar. This means that Taylor is not on the official version of Rip This Joint.

Rocks Off:
The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

RTJ: What makes you believe the slide is not an edited version of Taylor's slide and that any overdub is by Richards?

RO: I think Carla Osen reported that the solo was cut off because they ran out of tape (presumably Taylor was her source).
While I don't agree with all the edits, I do think the horn parts were rightly trimmed on this one and wonder why the bouncing horn parts were tried at all. Is there some soul song those bouncing come from?

RTJ: the slide of the official version is clearly different to the slide Taylor plays on the outtake, and is executed much less professional than Taylor would do. It also very much sounds like a close miked overdub.

RO: tape running out is rediculous, that just won't ever happen. I am absolutely sure they thought a short solo fading out early has more tension than a long solo, which also is not very Stones-y anyway.

Mathijs

RTJ: yes, the louder parts are different.
However, the buried slide at 0.08 and 0.11 of the official version may be the same.



In any case the vibrato at 0.23-0.24 on the official version doesn't sound to me like the Richards slide of the Let It Bleed album, Wild Horses, Jigsaw Puzzle, etc.

(Some of the phrases on the outtake remind me of the lap steel work Taylor did with Champion Jack Dupree.)

RO: if I find the Olsen/Taylor source, I'll post it.
Taylor did "finish" the solo when the two performed Rocks Off at the Roxy in 1990.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: January 21, 2014 05:52

Quote
dcba
Great contribution, Mathijs!

"Taylor's guitar just messes up the tightness of the track"
I'm not one of these Taylor bashers but I'm sure Keef & Mick often had that thought while listening to playback in the control room...

thumbs up

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 21, 2014 13:02

Quote
smokeydusky
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
smokeydusky
Quote
Mathijs

Rip This Joint:
Interesting bit: they removed all of Taylor’s guitar, and Richards plays the overdubbed slide guitar. This means that Taylor is not on the official version of Rip This Joint.

Rocks Off:
The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

RTJ: What makes you believe the slide is not an edited version of Taylor's slide and that any overdub is by Richards?

RO: I think Carla Osen reported that the solo was cut off because they ran out of tape (presumably Taylor was her source).
While I don't agree with all the edits, I do think the horn parts were rightly trimmed on this one and wonder why the bouncing horn parts were tried at all. Is there some soul song those bouncing come from?

RTJ: the slide of the official version is clearly different to the slide Taylor plays on the outtake, and is executed much less professional than Taylor would do. It also very much sounds like a close miked overdub.

RO: tape running out is rediculous, that just won't ever happen. I am absolutely sure they thought a short solo fading out early has more tension than a long solo, which also is not very Stones-y anyway.

Mathijs

RTJ: yes, the louder parts are different.
However, the buried slide at 0.08 and 0.11 of the official version may be the same.



In any case the vibrato at 0.23-0.24 on the official version doesn't sound to me like the Richards slide of the Let It Bleed album, Wild Horses, Jigsaw Puzzle, etc.

(Some of the phrases on the outtake remind me of the lap steel work Taylor did with Champion Jack Dupree.)

RO: if I find the Olsen/Taylor source, I'll post it.
Taylor did "finish" the solo when the two performed Rocks Off at the Roxy in 1990.

To be honest I don't hear a slide at 0.08 and 0.11s. I remember it being there, but with this new Exile Deluxe version I don't hear it anymore.

After listening a couple of times: the licks at the turn-arounds (0.23s, 0.50s, 1.20m, at the ending) sound like a combination of slide and fingers, and especially the first lick (at 0.23) sounds like a standard Richards lick to me.

Mathijs

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 21, 2014 14:30

The Hopkins Tape:

[www.wetransfer.com]

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-21 14:46 by Mathijs.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 21, 2014 17:47

Thanks RobberBride and Matthijs for the videos and the downloads!

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: January 21, 2014 23:02

Thanks for posting Mathijs..

__________________________

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: Captainchaos ()
Date: January 22, 2014 01:29

MEGA - Thanks!

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Date: January 22, 2014 02:34

I never realized what great NOTES Bill plays in ADTL. I am always so enthralled by the train of his track that I hadn't paid much attention to the notes. It's actually a melody he is playing. (Something DJ would never do)
Just goes to show that with every spin of Exile I still find something new every time.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: poor immigrant ()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:56

This is really cool! I downloaded the files, but they are flac, which I've always had trouble with. Is there an mp3 source for the same files? thanks!

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Date: January 23, 2014 21:32

Download Flac Frontend.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: January 23, 2014 21:40

... or VLC player.

Re: Exile: The Hopkins Tape
Posted by: GOO ()
Date: January 23, 2014 21:54

Too bad these takes sound awful

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