Tell Me :
Talk
I thought you British would recognize irony. Another illusion gone up in smoke.
If you play the shuffle beat on the drums it flows along in a standard boogie/swing/jazz up-tempo tune. Well, it's faster than medium tempo but not that fast.
Dandelion1967 - That's not really right, is it? Stu was great with boogie woogie - on tracks like Down the Road Apiece. It was his bread and butter.
It's peanuts (still presto though), until a guitarist has to play some decent lines using sixteenth notes.
It all dependends on what does mean "boobie-woogie" for you. If it's a piano playing style, showing virtousity and countless licks, never repeated, then you'll know Nicky is closer to Pete Johnson, to name one. But if you think booguie is a way of playing blues-oriented licks over a standard heavy left-hand, then Stu was far better. But it's not a matter of "who was better than the other".
--------------------------------------------
"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"
--------------------------------------------
Not to mention a tribute to Larry Williams's tribute ... allusions to allusions
Pretty cool, you can really hear the rhythm guitar interplay of Richards/Taylor well and how Andy Johns mixed in and out the slide guitar part. Nicky Hopkins piano is fantastic.
But it's all Richards on guitar, no Taylor.
The main rhythm track is composed of an open G-guitar, and a standard tuned guitar playing the boogie pattern. Both are Richards. The slide coming in and out is Richards as well. The known 'Hopkins Tape' outtake has a part that Taylor plays but that has been removed, I think mainly because it is in the way of the piano. Taylor does play this part live though, albeit a bit more sophisticated.
What I never heard before: the second sax solo is actually two solo's! Great!
And Jagger's vocals are fantastic! Amazing how he basically stays in one key.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-05-21 13:51 by Mathijs.
Last time live was the the Olympia in 2003, I believe...
Mathijs
That’s Taylor. It was on the basic track and it’s exactly what he played in 72. Plus it’s buried in the mix.
I will check confirm on the Hopkins tape today for good measure.
You are correct, Sir. I wonder whether Keith could handle that rhythm, now? They'd have to slow the tempo, probably. It's a classic, and would be a joy to hear again.
On the Hopkins tape you hear the exact same two rhythm guitars but panned wide stereo, with an added slide overdub by Keith on the top. The two rhythm guitars are so in sync it has to be an overdub, and the style and tone are that of Keith.
In the deconstructed clip though yo can hear a faint slide guitar in the back, and I doubt if this is a remnant of the slide overdub.
Mathijs
Well yeah, that's logical if you spent 3 days recording a second rhythm track, which is what Keith did on most of the Stones records. They recorded a basic tracks, and then spend the next months recording multiple rhtyhm tracks, over and over again. Taylor is a fantastic lead player, and when he plays lead lines for the rhythm track (like Dancing With D. on Brussels) he is fantastic, but his pure rhythm tracks often have a quite add signature, clashing with Keith and the piano. Take Exile: just about all rhythm guitars are Keith, and Taylor mainly plays lead guitar when the song asks for a great solo, and he plays bass.
When it comes to locking in, Richards and Wood were a much better team in my opinion.
Mathijs
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026-05-24 17:13 by Taylor1.
I think you’re underestimating Taylor in the studio. He played rhythm guitar all over his two albums and understands how to fit in a role.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree here. “Rip This Joint” has the typical boogie pattern he played live on Chuck Berry tunes and there is no reason to believe he didn’t execute that part in the studio during basic tracking.
If you’re going to use tone as an argument, then the second guitar on “Turd On The Run” has to be re-analyzed because it is Taylor’s quintessential tone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-05-24 17:44 by TravelinMan.
Of course Taylor can play rhythm -he was one of the best guitarist in the 60's and 70's. But I think that he was not a very good rhythm player in the context of the Stones, which requests that you offer multiple interesting rhythm and lead parts that build up to a sum greater that its parts. And that's something that he just never did. He did some nice but very simplistic rhythm parts (CYHMK, Live With Me), and he did some fantastic lead playing, but not very much in between. Just about all songs of the Taylor years with intricate rhythm parts are overdubbed layers by Keith, and Ron Wood later on showed he weaved with Keith, by adding intricate layers of guitar, like on Beast of Burden, Down in the Hole etc.
On Exile, Nicky Hopkins functioned in much the same way as Ron Wood, adding combined rhythm and melodic textures to songs.
I appreciate Taylor for what he has done -he has added brilliant lead lines and solo's to the best band in the world in their prime, music that I listen to almost daily for the last 45 years. And to date he had the best vibrato and tone anyone has ever got out of a Les Paul.
I mean, what do you want more of this guy?
Mathijs
What's interesting to me is Keith Richards developed a workflow on Beggars and Let It Bleed where he had to carry a lot of the guitar load himself. But then again, he has always testified that he prefers working with another guitarist. So we see some songs like "Dead Flowers", which are very much in the traditional vein of the band live off the floor—I mean Taylor hasn't even developed his solo idea yet! Then we have other songs like "Ain't Too Proud To Beg", which were constructed very much the way Beggars and Let It Bleed were, at least guitar-wise.
So while I believe Bill and Mick Taylor "if you were there, you played", I agree Richards would go back over and tinker with recordings, mainly the arrangement. He was an excellent guitar arranger. I just think there is an ongoing myth that Taylor didn't contribute, when in fact he very much did, but his contributions weren't always used.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: December 31, 2013 02:01
Quote
His MajestyQuote
kleermakerQuote
His Majesty
Nah. The last thing that song needs is a Taylor guitar solo.
You mean it makes it too long.
No.
None of this is suitable or needed in any way...
I thought you British would recognize irony. Another illusion gone up in smoke.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 31, 2013 02:13
Quote
kleermaker
I thought you British would recognize irony. Another illusion gone up in smoke.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: December 31, 2013 04:20
I have to admit on my first listen to EOMS, I didn't like Rocks Off. Since then it has grown on me very much. But when Rip this joint came on during that first listen I thought "OK, I get it. Now I know why people like this album so much".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-31 04:21 by ryanpow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-31 04:21 by ryanpow.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: January 1, 2014 19:28
Quote
LuxuryStonesQuote
Bärs
I don't get why everybody is talking about the "fast" tempo. The tempo is medium on the Exile version.
It has a 4/4 194 bpm feel, which is very fast in rock.
If you play the shuffle beat on the drums it flows along in a standard boogie/swing/jazz up-tempo tune. Well, it's faster than medium tempo but not that fast.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: January 1, 2014 20:03
Quote
dandelion1967
I was about to add this videos... I made it to put Nicky's piano on the front. The guy was amazing... true rhythm piano, but without losing his melodie. Stu wasn't able to play like this, he was more a blues-oriented pianist.
Dandelion1967 - That's not really right, is it? Stu was great with boogie woogie - on tracks like Down the Road Apiece. It was his bread and butter.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: January 2, 2014 20:51
Quote
BärsQuote
LuxuryStonesQuote
Bärs
I don't get why everybody is talking about the "fast" tempo. The tempo is medium on the Exile version.
It has a 4/4 194 bpm feel, which is very fast in rock.
If you play the shuffle beat on the drums it flows along in a standard boogie/swing/jazz up-tempo tune. Well, it's faster than medium tempo but not that fast.
It's peanuts (still presto though), until a guitarist has to play some decent lines using sixteenth notes.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
dandelion1967
()
Date: January 3, 2014 02:57
Quote
drbryantQuote
dandelion1967
I was about to add this videos... I made it to put Nicky's piano on the front. The guy was amazing... true rhythm piano, but without losing his melodie. Stu wasn't able to play like this, he was more a blues-oriented pianist.
Dandelion1967 - That's not really right, is it? Stu was great with boogie woogie - on tracks like Down the Road Apiece. It was his bread and butter.
It all dependends on what does mean "boobie-woogie" for you. If it's a piano playing style, showing virtousity and countless licks, never repeated, then you'll know Nicky is closer to Pete Johnson, to name one. But if you think booguie is a way of playing blues-oriented licks over a standard heavy left-hand, then Stu was far better. But it's not a matter of "who was better than the other".
--------------------------------------------
"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"
--------------------------------------------
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 3, 2014 10:46
Nicky was an allround player. Stu was mainly a boogie-woogie player, albeit a really good one. Listen round the 0:56 mark.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-03 16:18 by DandelionPowderman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-03 16:18 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: January 3, 2014 16:12
Quote
stonehearted
It's their Little Richard tribute. A bit of Long Tall Sally topped with Tutti Frutti.
Not to mention a tribute to Larry Williams's tribute ... allusions to allusions
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: January 13, 2014 13:46
Oddly enough, Turd on the Run is very appeasing.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: May 20, 2026 17:14
Pretty cool, you can really hear the rhythm guitar interplay of Richards/Taylor well and how Andy Johns mixed in and out the slide guitar part. Nicky Hopkins piano is fantastic.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 21, 2026 13:47
Quote
TravelinMan
Pretty cool, you can really hear the rhythm guitar interplay of Richards/Taylor well and how Andy Johns mixed in and out the slide guitar part. Nicky Hopkins piano is fantastic.
But it's all Richards on guitar, no Taylor.
The main rhythm track is composed of an open G-guitar, and a standard tuned guitar playing the boogie pattern. Both are Richards. The slide coming in and out is Richards as well. The known 'Hopkins Tape' outtake has a part that Taylor plays but that has been removed, I think mainly because it is in the way of the piano. Taylor does play this part live though, albeit a bit more sophisticated.
What I never heard before: the second sax solo is actually two solo's! Great!
And Jagger's vocals are fantastic! Amazing how he basically stays in one key.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-05-21 13:51 by Mathijs.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: May 21, 2026 14:06
Great track; not attempted live since the Licks tour, I think. I wonder if they could handle the tempo, today?
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 21, 2026 14:50
Quote
Big Al
Great track; not attempted live since the Licks tour, I think. I wonder if they could handle the tempo, today?
Last time live was the the Olympia in 2003, I believe...
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: May 21, 2026 15:50
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
Pretty cool, you can really hear the rhythm guitar interplay of Richards/Taylor well and how Andy Johns mixed in and out the slide guitar part. Nicky Hopkins piano is fantastic.
But it's all Richards on guitar, no Taylor.
The main rhythm track is composed of an open G-guitar, and a standard tuned guitar playing the boogie pattern. Both are Richards. The slide coming in and out is Richards as well. The known 'Hopkins Tape' outtake has a part that Taylor plays but that has been removed, I think mainly because it is in the way of the piano. Taylor does play this part live though, albeit a bit more sophisticated.
What I never heard before: the second sax solo is actually two solo's! Great!
And Jagger's vocals are fantastic! Amazing how he basically stays in one key.
Mathijs
That’s Taylor. It was on the basic track and it’s exactly what he played in 72. Plus it’s buried in the mix.
I will check confirm on the Hopkins tape today for good measure.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: May 21, 2026 17:03
Quote
MathijsQuote
Big Al
Great track; not attempted live since the Licks tour, I think. I wonder if they could handle the tempo, today?
Last time live was the the Olympia in 2003, I believe...
Mathijs
You are correct, Sir. I wonder whether Keith could handle that rhythm, now? They'd have to slow the tempo, probably. It's a classic, and would be a joy to hear again.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
snoopy2
()
Date: May 21, 2026 17:28
Enjoyed that! It mentions only sax and trumpet on the YouTube breakdown, but it seems there is another horn type, or are there multiple parts being played differently?
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 22, 2026 02:07
The Stones liked it enough to include it on their very first hits compilation.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 23, 2026 12:13
Quote
TravelinManQuote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
Pretty cool, you can really hear the rhythm guitar interplay of Richards/Taylor well and how Andy Johns mixed in and out the slide guitar part. Nicky Hopkins piano is fantastic.
But it's all Richards on guitar, no Taylor.
The main rhythm track is composed of an open G-guitar, and a standard tuned guitar playing the boogie pattern. Both are Richards. The slide coming in and out is Richards as well. The known 'Hopkins Tape' outtake has a part that Taylor plays but that has been removed, I think mainly because it is in the way of the piano. Taylor does play this part live though, albeit a bit more sophisticated.
What I never heard before: the second sax solo is actually two solo's! Great!
And Jagger's vocals are fantastic! Amazing how he basically stays in one key.
Mathijs
That’s Taylor. It was on the basic track and it’s exactly what he played in 72. Plus it’s buried in the mix.
I will check confirm on the Hopkins tape today for good measure.
On the Hopkins tape you hear the exact same two rhythm guitars but panned wide stereo, with an added slide overdub by Keith on the top. The two rhythm guitars are so in sync it has to be an overdub, and the style and tone are that of Keith.
In the deconstructed clip though yo can hear a faint slide guitar in the back, and I doubt if this is a remnant of the slide overdub.
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: May 23, 2026 15:27
I deconstructed the instrumental version and IMO it sounds like two different guitarists tracking together and a Keith Richards slide overdub. My best guess is the slide overdub includes perhaps ideas for brass and that’s why it sounds odd. It was never intended to be the final part. But who knows?
I believe the faint slide on the Exile version is when it was mixed down in order to avoid conflict with vocals.
One thing about playing around with deconstructed tracks is you hear how absolutely locked in these guys were with one another.
I believe the faint slide on the Exile version is when it was mixed down in order to avoid conflict with vocals.
One thing about playing around with deconstructed tracks is you hear how absolutely locked in these guys were with one another.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 23, 2026 19:51
Another one is the All Down the Line alternate version.And also Travelin Man outtake.Shows Taylor/Richards weren’t just lead/rhythm.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 24, 2026 12:41
Quote
TravelinMan
One thing about playing around with deconstructed tracks is you hear how absolutely locked in these guys were with one another.
Well yeah, that's logical if you spent 3 days recording a second rhythm track, which is what Keith did on most of the Stones records. They recorded a basic tracks, and then spend the next months recording multiple rhtyhm tracks, over and over again. Taylor is a fantastic lead player, and when he plays lead lines for the rhythm track (like Dancing With D. on Brussels) he is fantastic, but his pure rhythm tracks often have a quite add signature, clashing with Keith and the piano. Take Exile: just about all rhythm guitars are Keith, and Taylor mainly plays lead guitar when the song asks for a great solo, and he plays bass.
When it comes to locking in, Richards and Wood were a much better team in my opinion.
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: May 24, 2026 16:52
On the AllDown the Line , alternate take, for example, how is Taylor’s guitar clashing.? Or Star-Star,Live With Me,Travelin Man,Midnight Rambler from Get Yer Ya Ya’s Out, the first part of Can’t You Hear Me Knocking or Heartbreaker?Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
One thing about playing around with deconstructed tracks is you hear how absolutely locked in these guys were with one another.
Well yeah, that's logical if you spent 3 days recording a second rhythm track, which is what Keith did on most of the Stones records. They recorded a basic tracks, and then spend the next months recording multiple rhtyhm tracks, over and over again. Taylor is a fantastic lead player, and when he plays lead lines for the rhythm track (like Dancing With D. on Brussels) he is fantastic, but his pure rhythm tracks often have a quite add signature, clashing with Keith and the piano. Take Exile: just about all rhythm guitars are Keith, and Taylor mainly plays lead guitar when the song asks for a great solo, and he plays bass.
When it comes to locking in, Richards and Wood were a much better team in my opinion.
Mathijs
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026-05-24 17:13 by Taylor1.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: May 24, 2026 17:43
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
One thing about playing around with deconstructed tracks is you hear how absolutely locked in these guys were with one another.
Well yeah, that's logical if you spent 3 days recording a second rhythm track, which is what Keith did on most of the Stones records. They recorded a basic tracks, and then spend the next months recording multiple rhtyhm tracks, over and over again. Taylor is a fantastic lead player, and when he plays lead lines for the rhythm track (like Dancing With D. on Brussels) he is fantastic, but his pure rhythm tracks often have a quite add signature, clashing with Keith and the piano. Take Exile: just about all rhythm guitars are Keith, and Taylor mainly plays lead guitar when the song asks for a great solo, and he plays bass.
When it comes to locking in, Richards and Wood were a much better team in my opinion.
Mathijs
I think you’re underestimating Taylor in the studio. He played rhythm guitar all over his two albums and understands how to fit in a role.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree here. “Rip This Joint” has the typical boogie pattern he played live on Chuck Berry tunes and there is no reason to believe he didn’t execute that part in the studio during basic tracking.
If you’re going to use tone as an argument, then the second guitar on “Turd On The Run” has to be re-analyzed because it is Taylor’s quintessential tone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026-05-24 17:44 by TravelinMan.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: May 25, 2026 00:46
Here are the isolated guitars from the Hopkins Tapes in stereophonic sound.
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 26, 2026 11:28
Quote
TravelinMan
I think you’re underestimating Taylor in the studio. He played rhythm guitar all over his two albums and understands how to fit in a role.
Of course Taylor can play rhythm -he was one of the best guitarist in the 60's and 70's. But I think that he was not a very good rhythm player in the context of the Stones, which requests that you offer multiple interesting rhythm and lead parts that build up to a sum greater that its parts. And that's something that he just never did. He did some nice but very simplistic rhythm parts (CYHMK, Live With Me), and he did some fantastic lead playing, but not very much in between. Just about all songs of the Taylor years with intricate rhythm parts are overdubbed layers by Keith, and Ron Wood later on showed he weaved with Keith, by adding intricate layers of guitar, like on Beast of Burden, Down in the Hole etc.
On Exile, Nicky Hopkins functioned in much the same way as Ron Wood, adding combined rhythm and melodic textures to songs.
I appreciate Taylor for what he has done -he has added brilliant lead lines and solo's to the best band in the world in their prime, music that I listen to almost daily for the last 45 years. And to date he had the best vibrato and tone anyone has ever got out of a Les Paul.
I mean, what do you want more of this guy?
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Rip This Joint
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: May 26, 2026 16:32
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
I think you’re underestimating Taylor in the studio. He played rhythm guitar all over his two albums and understands how to fit in a role.
Of course Taylor can play rhythm -he was one of the best guitarist in the 60's and 70's. But I think that he was not a very good rhythm player in the context of the Stones, which requests that you offer multiple interesting rhythm and lead parts that build up to a sum greater that its parts. And that's something that he just never did. He did some nice but very simplistic rhythm parts (CYHMK, Live With Me), and he did some fantastic lead playing, but not very much in between. Just about all songs of the Taylor years with intricate rhythm parts are overdubbed layers by Keith, and Ron Wood later on showed he weaved with Keith, by adding intricate layers of guitar, like on Beast of Burden, Down in the Hole etc.
On Exile, Nicky Hopkins functioned in much the same way as Ron Wood, adding combined rhythm and melodic textures to songs.
I appreciate Taylor for what he has done -he has added brilliant lead lines and solo's to the best band in the world in their prime, music that I listen to almost daily for the last 45 years. And to date he had the best vibrato and tone anyone has ever got out of a Les Paul.
I mean, what do you want more of this guy?
Mathijs
What's interesting to me is Keith Richards developed a workflow on Beggars and Let It Bleed where he had to carry a lot of the guitar load himself. But then again, he has always testified that he prefers working with another guitarist. So we see some songs like "Dead Flowers", which are very much in the traditional vein of the band live off the floor—I mean Taylor hasn't even developed his solo idea yet! Then we have other songs like "Ain't Too Proud To Beg", which were constructed very much the way Beggars and Let It Bleed were, at least guitar-wise.
So while I believe Bill and Mick Taylor "if you were there, you played", I agree Richards would go back over and tinker with recordings, mainly the arrangement. He was an excellent guitar arranger. I just think there is an ongoing myth that Taylor didn't contribute, when in fact he very much did, but his contributions weren't always used.
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