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His Majesty

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DoomandGloom
The engineers would "tap" the playback head and run the recording cassette and the master machine simultaneously. By monitoring the input or printing a direct signal the musicians could overdub using this trick.

That's possible and it's something i've considered before, but it's not what he's really describing.

The tape recording was played back through a bigger speaker and mic'd up. The recent article gives better clarity about that process. Also he talks in 2002 as if there's only two guitars on Jumpin' Jack Flash, but there's atleast 5 or so.

What sounds electric is still electrics though, there's still an obvious difference. It might be easier to hear if you've played through the Vox and Triumph amps they were using during that time, especially the Triumph Silicon 100.

Yes but his account has changed, about a million years ago I read how this was done by tapping the record and playback heads. This is more in the school of British recording and audio engineering. At least for SFM I believe they used this direct process, JJF was probably done as described.

Many years of interview hunting I have never read Keith or anyone else involved state that they tapped the heads or any mention of direct feeds. There may have been no need because depending on the exact model he had the machine might have had had a line out feature.

The key things in all accounts i've read is that the tape recording was played back through a larger speaker and that this speaker was mic'd up and this was captured to professional multi-track tape machine.

Thy sat in the control room and watched as the tape machine played back through the speaker with a mic on it.

Basics of Parachute Woman followed the same process.

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Rockman


Keith Richards 1988

Thank you ROCKMAN.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-17 22:47 by His Majesty.

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LuxuryStones

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DandelionPowderman


Of course, the MXR would be in every guitar players pedal board after SG, no doubt about that

Something similar a couple of years prior to that by MT already

Absolutely, but not noticed by the masses.

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His Majesty

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bleedingman
This is a great article but the subject has been discussed by Keith many times, for instance in this interview:

[www.guitarworld.com]

Sure, but he's adding in a bit of confusion in that one.

The tape machine take is a live as it happened thing caught on a little tape machine. So the two acoustics he says were done using that method must have involved another guitar player playing at the same time as Keith. It was probably Brian as Bill's books credit him with playing on Jumpin' Jack Flash.

That tape machine recording is then played back through a larger speaker and recorded on to professional multi-track. This acts as a distinctive sounding basic rhythm track.

They then over dub on to the remaining tracks via the usual methods.

...

What sounds like electric guitars on JJF is electric guitars, the acoustic tape machine take is the compressed grungey sounding stuff which mostly plays underneath all of the electrics.

Bill is also crediting himself on JJF...

Thank you ROCKMAN.....my pleasure HM...



ROCKMAN

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DandelionPowderman


Bill is also crediting himself on JJF...

Yes, on organ.

I doubt it's the hammond though, but might be what is possibly a harmonium heard towards the end of the track.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman


Bill is also crediting himself on JJF...

Yes, on organ.

I doubt it's the hammond though, but might be what is possibly a harmonium heard towards the end of the track.

On bass as well?

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DandelionPowderman

On bass as well?

No.

Ok. Sounds like a harmonium and not a hammond organ.

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DandelionPowderman
Ok. Sounds like a harmonium and not a hammond organ.

Yeah, just that blast of a B chord, kinda sounds like a harmonica being blown hard or a wonky horn section.

Or maybe Bill made up for not playing bass by playing some of the cool hammond stuff on the track. I suspect that is Nicky though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-17 23:24 by His Majesty.

Yep, me too.

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DandelionPowderman

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LuxuryStones

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DandelionPowderman


Of course, the MXR would be in every guitar players pedal board after SG, no doubt about that

Something similar a couple of years prior to that by MT already

Absolutely, but not noticed by the masses.

Absolutely not indeed.

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
"Frankly" if you think Keith has sucked for forty years why are you here?

Because I didn't say he "sucked", nor do I think he sucked. I do think he stopped innovating. (I also didn't say 40 years). There's a difference.

2 years

In the interest of accuracy, I did say 30 years.

The nice 'n' scrappy mono single version.

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
"Frankly" if you think Keith has sucked for forty years why are you here?

Because I didn't say he "sucked", nor do I think he sucked. I do think he stopped innovating. (I also didn't say 40 years). There's a difference.

2 years

In the interest of accuracy, I did say 30 years.

He he, since Ronnie joined, I meant

SFM is the counterpart of Revolution. But it has no political meaning at all. It's pure hooliganism. Revolution on the contrary ... count me out/in.

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
"Frankly" if you think Keith has sucked for forty years why are you here?

Because I didn't say he "sucked", nor do I think he sucked. I do think he stopped innovating. (I also didn't say 40 years). There's a difference.

2 years

In the interest of accuracy, I did say 30 years.

He he, since Ronnie joined, I meant

I know, but I think there was some innovation in the first few years with Ronnie. After that, not so much. They were pretty much thrashing on stage. Some interesting funky things on record, but I don't know how innovative they were.

I would say that the Keith Richards who popped up on stage in 89 with the Music Man and the electric nylon string did the last "innovation".

He played things he'd never done before lead-wise, including some spanish-sounding licks (Rock And A Hard Place, PI.

Unfortunately, he was more determined to be a guitar hero than to add to the band's overall sound, seemingly. And I didn't like the sound of the nylon string guitar.

But it was pretty innovative on stuff like Sad Sad Sad, PIB, 2000 LYFH and Almost Hear You Sigh. Even on Can't Be Seen, like it or not...

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DandelionPowderman
I would say that the Keith Richards who popped up on stage in 89 with the Music Man and the electric nylon string did the last "innovation".

He played things he'd never done before lead-wise, including some spanish-sounding licks (Rock And A Hard Place, PI.

Unfortunately, he was more determined to be a guitar hero than to add to the band's overall sound, seemingly. And I didn't like the sound of the nylon string guitar.

But it was pretty innovative on stuff like Sad Sad Sad, PIB, 2000 LYFH and Almost Hear You Sigh. Even on Can't Be Seen, like it or not...

I agree about the nylon-string, but it's a fine line between an experiment and an innovation, I suppose. I always thought it sounded kind of plinky mic'd up.

It was a crazy idea: An electric guitar with nylon strings.

I thought it worked well on PIB and RT, but not so good on Play With Fire and Angie.

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DandelionPowderman
It was a crazy idea: An electric guitar with nylon strings.

I thought it worked well on PIB and RT, but not so good on Play With Fire and Angie.

Those instruments were fashionable at the time .
Keith was just one of a number who played around with them and went through a bit of an infatuation with the classical guitar [as featured on AHYS.]

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Spud

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DandelionPowderman
It was a crazy idea: An electric guitar with nylon strings.

I thought it worked well on PIB and RT, but not so good on Play With Fire and Angie.

Those instruments were fashionable at the time .
Keith was just one of a number who played around with them and went through a bit of an infatuation with the classical guitar [as featured on AHYS.]

I remember the increasing use of acoustics in rock/pop songs, also from heavier rock bands at the time.

But I didn't see those electric nylon strings around a lot back then, at least not in stadiums

Atleast he tried, but that thing produced a horrible sound! When was that guitar retired from stage use?

The technology has advanced a lot since then, maybe he should try again, but with a new guitar.

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His Majesty


The technology has advanced a lot since then, maybe he should try again, but with a new guitar.

It has and it hasn't.
Pickup systems for acoustic instruments have come a long way but you can keep all that modelling technolgy. It sounds convincing but still doesn't respond very well to touch.

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kleermaker
SFM is the counterpart of Revolution. But it has no political meaning at all. It's pure hooliganism.

No it isn't--it's saying that there's revolution going on all over Europe amd he'd like to be in on it, but he lives in London where there's no place for a street fighting man. So he's playing for a rock and roll band as that's his only way of contributing to the struggle.

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Aquamarine

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kleermaker
SFM is the counterpart of Revolution. But it has no political meaning at all. It's pure hooliganism.

No it isn't--it's saying that there's revolution going on all over Europe amd he'd like to be in on it, but he lives in London where there's no place for a street fighting man. So he's playing for a rock and roll band as that's his only way of contributing to the struggle.

Mmm, your interpretation is going too far imo.
There's mention of a 'palace revolution' and shouting about killing the king and railing at his servants, but that's not a real revolution.

"Evrywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, boy
Cause summers here and the time is right for fighting in the street, boy
But what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock n roll band
Cause in sleepy london town
There's just no place for a street fighting man
No

Hey! think the time is right for a palace revolution
But where I live the game to play is compromise solution
Well, then what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock n roll band
Cause in sleepy london town
There's no place for a street fighting man
No

Hey! said my name is called disturbance
Ill shout and scream, I'll kill the king, I'll rail at all his servants
Well, what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock n roll band
Cause in sleepy london town
There's no place for a street fighting man
No."

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kleermaker

Mmm, your interpretation is going too far imo.
There's mention of a 'palace revolution' and shouting about killing the king and railing at his servants, but that's not a real revolution.

Disturbing the peace, killing the king and having a go at his servents/associates for serving said king can obviously be part of a revolution.

It is just a song, a poetic observation on, for the time, current events.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-19 21:24 by His Majesty.

The inference isn't that he's going to DO those things but that he's going to shout/scream/sing about them. Because in sleepy London town, we don't actually do that sort thing, we just talk (shout/scream/sing) about being revolutionaries. That was very much the feeling at the time, that all the action was in Paris, Germany, etc. The most that happened in London was the demo outside the US embassy, which Jagger attended (on the fringes).

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Spud

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His Majesty


The technology has advanced a lot since then, maybe he should try again, but with a new guitar.

It has and it hasn't.
Pickup systems for acoustic instruments have come a long way but you can keep all that modelling technolgy. It sounds convincing but still doesn't respond very well to touch.

It was electric.

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DandelionPowderman

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Spud

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His Majesty


The technology has advanced a lot since then, maybe he should try again, but with a new guitar.

It has and it hasn't.
Pickup systems for acoustic instruments have come a long way but you can keep all that modelling technolgy. It sounds convincing but still doesn't respond very well to touch.

It was electric.

Better to describe it as solid bodied, but even then it was chambered. It still used a transducer Piezo type pickup like other electro-acoustic instruments rather than a normal electric guitar pickup.

The sound is that of an electro-acoustic nylon strung guitar like the Chet Atkins signature model.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-20 02:53 by His Majesty.